Comments about ‘Letter: Partisan mess’

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Published: Friday, Oct. 11 2013 12:00 a.m. MDT

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Hamath
Omaha, NE

Matt,

The problem with your argument is the facts. The facts are that the Republicans have now said that they won't hold the ACA reform as part of the changes they are looking for. All along they said let's fix the budget more... let's get the deficit more under control. Now they are saying that still and not worrying about the ACA... so that wasn't there most important motivation.

If the current Democrat leadership won't negotiate to improve the deficit and out of control spending... then they will be as guilty as the Bush administration was in their out of control spending, as guilty as the Clinton administration was for part of it's regime, and as guilty as the Carter/Ford/Reagan/Johnson/Bush Sr. admins were before them.

Fix the problem.

Learn simple math. Spend less or the same as what you earn. Pretty simple.

one vote
Salt Lake City, UT

Politics would not be so partisan if people looked into the facts and did not just listen to the spin. The entire shutdown the government movement to defund the ACA was built on spin that did not recognize it was already funded by law.Even if you do not like something, you need to consider the consequences of a desperate symbolic act. Politicians like Senator Lee must consider the effect this will have on people that just listen to the spin.

Ranch
Here, UT

Oh, Matt, you're going to take some hate on this one.

ECR
Burke, VA

Thanks for your letter Matt. I hope those opposed to your point of view aren't too harsh in their comments to follow.

I'm amused by the constant accusation of the right that the President and the Democrats in the Senate aren't willing to negotiate. A simple click on the computer will get you to the video evidence that John Boehner admitted to George Stephanopoulos that the Democrats negotiated and that the Republicans didn't hold up their end of the bargain.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But Mr. Speaker, he (Harry Reid) says -- and he said it publicly on many occasions, that you came to him back in July and offered to pass a clean government funding resolution, no Obamacare amendments, that was $70 billion below what the Senate wanted. They accepted it. And now, you've reneged on that offer.

BOEHNER: No, clearly there was a conversation about doing this...But I and my members decided the threat of Obamacare and what was happening was so important that it was time for us to take a stand. And we took a stand.

Thank you Speaker Boehner for setting the record straight about who caused the shutdown.

Twin Lights
Louisville, KY

Though I agree that hard line Tea Partiers are the principle problem here, I do not think they are totally alone in bearing responsibility.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

Those who care more about politics than the Supreme Law of the Land will tell us that Harry Reid presented a budget that originated in the Senate and tried to get the House to accept that budget. Illiteracy among the good Senators must be at an all time high. The Constitution clearly states that all revenue bills must originate in the House. There's a reason for that. The Senate represents the States. The House represents the People. The States do not pay income taxes to the Federal Government. If the Senate were allowed to originate revenue bills, the States could indirectly tax the citizens to pay for State "pork" projects. Because the House must originate revenue bills, that is minimized.

The House does not care that Reid will negotiate after he gets what he wants. Reid is acting the part of a dictator who will hold you and me and every other citizen hostage until he gets what he wants. No sane person would negotiate with Reid on Reid's terms. If Reid wants to negotiate, he will have no pre-conditions.

Obama and Reid are the problem. The House has passed a budget.

Sal
Provo, UT

The House passed many bills to fund the government and keep it open. Senate Democrats refused to bring those bills up for a vote. The liberal media blame Republicans for the shut down even though Republicans voted to keep it open.

one old man
Ogden, UT

So many opinions based on false information. Those hate radio voices are like hauntings from the other side of sanity.

Twin Lights
Louisville, KY

Mike Richards and Sal,

First, Section 7 of the Constitution clearly outlines a give and take process between the House, Senate, and President.

If you believe that origination means the President should just accept then were you in favor of a line item veto for Reagan?

Also, should a president be allowed submit any name for Senate confirmation (such as a Supreme Court Justice) and the Senate just rollover and approve?

The political process given to us keeps a balance of powers.

Irony Guy
Bountiful, Utah

Pres. Obama is doing the right thing by refusing to deal. No one party should be able to hold the entire US gov't hostage, much less a minority of the minority party. The speaker of the House won't even allow a vote. When did the speaker get that kind of authority? Nowhere in the Constitution, that's for sure.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Re: "The Republicans are the only ones responsible for the government shutdown"...

It's absolutist statements like that that turn my interest off. When I see absolutes like that I read no further. There's no use. They just lost their credibility with me.

People who see things in black and white absolutes are not looking for solutions, they are looking only arguments, and for blame (which solves nothing). It's very rare that you can blame a problem totally and absolutely on just ONE party. Political standoffs are rarely that simple. It takes two to have a standoff like this.

happy2bhere
clearfield, UT

Matt you just are not looking at the whole picture, as I notice many posters like you arn't. There are 5 entities involved in this whole thing. The House Republicans, and House Democrats. The Senate Republicans and the Senate Democrats. And of course the President. All of these players are in part the cause of the shutdown. Trying to place blame on one group in particular is a chicken or egg question. Of course if you follow only one media outlet, which today are little more than partisan talking points, one might think this is all the fault of only one group. And as Hamath pointed out. This problem hardly began with the current crop of politicians in D.C. today. If you want to really understand where it all began you'd probably have to go all the way back to President Roosevelt. Or at least Johnson.

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

@Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

"The Constitution clearly states that all revenue bills must originate in the House."

========

All partisan garbage aside --

That House has also passed the ACA bill,
[as did the Senate, the POTUS, and the SCOTUS.]
and NOW refuses to fund it.

The Senate rejected that, and sent it back to the House.

But, the Senate does not have to blindly rubber stamp any and all rubbish the House sends it.

They can and do make proposals [called Senate Budget proposals] to the House that suggest -- We'll sign it if it has this this and this - per the Constitution.

The President's "proposal" [called President's Budget proposals] does the same thing - I'll sign it if it has that, that and that - per the Constitution.

AND --

If the President still won't sign what Congress has agreed to,
The House and the Senate [with enough votes] can simply OVER-ride the President.

Follow the Constitution Mike, and stop trampling it.

ECR
Burke, VA

2 bits said,

"Re: "The Republicans are the only ones responsible for the government shutdown"...

"It's absolutist statements like that that turn my interest off. When I see absolutes like that I read no further. There's no use. They just lost their credibility with me. "

But then you said nothing about Mike Richardson saying,

"Obama and Reid are the problem. The House has passed a budget."

Do I see a double standard here?

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@Hamath
The Democrats compromised by agreeing to the House spending levels for the rest of gov't, this maintains the sequestration cuts and is so low in discretionary spending it's below the original Ryan budget.

JoeBlow
Far East USA, SC

ECR. Thanks for providing that exchange with Boehner.

It offers irrefutable proof as to what is happening.

One must either challenge the validity of the interview that you posted (hard to do as it is easily authenticated) or accept that the GOP is holding the debt ceiling hostage over the ACA.

It cannot get any plainer than that.

Tyler D
Meridian, ID

The silver lining in all this is the American people are not fooled. All the polls consistently show the vast majority of citizens lay the blame where it belongs… at the foot of radical tea party conservatives. Even among Republicans, and depending on which poll you look at, at least 50% (more in most polls) are blaming the tea party faction.

So despite a relentless campaign of right-wing media brainwashing that would make Goebbels proud, at least half of their audience is not buying it (I would love to see an IQ sample of this audience).

How many more times will the right-wing echo chamber get it wrong before even the most conservative minded viewer says, “no facts/reality here” and permanently remove the fact-free fear drip IV?

SonOfLiberty
West Jordan, UT

House Republicans first voted to fund all of government -- except Obamacare. Obama refused to negotiate and Senate Democrats refused to pass it. Then the Republicans voted to fully fund the government, but merely delay the implementation of Obamacare for one year. Obama refused to negotiate and Senate Democrats refused to pass it. Finally, the Republicans voted to fully fund the government, but added a requirement that everyone (including Congress, the President, etc.) live under Obamacare. ... Obama refused to negotiate and Senate Democrats refused to pass it. So as you can see, Republicans are the big holdup here. ... The only reason the government is shut down right now is that Democrats refuse to fund the government if they are required to live under Obamacare. That's how good it is!

Unreconstructed Reb
Chantilly, VA

Mike R. - "Those who care more about politics than the Supreme Law of the Land will tell us that Harry Reid presented a budget that originated in the Senate and tried to get the House to accept that budget. Illiteracy among the good Senators must be at an all time high. The Constitution clearly states that all revenue bills must originate in the House."

Mike, an appropriations bill is not understood to be a revenue bill. It is a SPENDING bill that doesn't involve the Origination Clause. The debate over interpretation of the Origination Clause has to do with whether a bill is primarily designed to raise revenue or if any revenue raised is incidental to the bill's intended purpose. Neither issue is on point for debating appropriations spending.

By tradition appropriations bills originate in the House, but the Senate isn't constitutionally required to adhere to tradition, or else the House would be using THAT as its primary argument over the Senate's insistence on funding ACA.

Given how broken the appropriations process has been for several years, especially the last month, your insistence on this line of argument doesn't move the outrage meter one iota.

10CC
Bountiful, UT

What Republicans are failing to see here is danger in the precedent being set.

The next time there is a GOP President, a GOP House, and a GOP Senate - but Republicans hold less than 60 seats, the amount needed to stop filibusters - the new precedent incentivizes the minority portion of the Senate to grind *everything* to a halt, and they'll be able to do so.

This is the new reality. If you don't win at the polls, don't worry, you can punish everyone, become a hero, and if enough of your consituents drink the kool-aid you peddle, you'll have zero negative repercussions for doing so, and will be rewarded handsomely for it.

The US is disintegrating from within. We used to be one nation. Now we have different tribes, mixed in a combustible geographic blend, with increasingly divergent realities, and the technological means to ideologically segregate ourselves so we don't need to really interact with or acknowledge each other, except on the street or at the store.

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