Comments about ‘Same-sex couples can't file joint tax returns in Utah’

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Published: Thursday, Oct. 10 2013 7:35 p.m. MDT

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Huntsville, UT


I'm an RM. Born and raised in the LDS church (I left at 32).

As a former missionary, let me give a shot at your comment: A burning bosom doesn't constitute knowledge, it simply validates one's belief. Prayer makes one feel good, but it doesn't provide knowledge.

mid-state, TN

@dwidenhouse --

"New Family Structures Study."

That study actually found differences between stable and unstable families -- not between gay-led and straight-led families.

Keep trying.

@Kevin --

"Polygamy currently thrives only in societies that denigrate women. "

Right. And that's a very important point.

Polygamy correlates nearly 100% with oppressive societies and cultures. Cultures that espouse equal rights for women universally decry polygamy.

Guess why.

"That doesn't mean that polygamy causes men to be abusive."

So what?

The important point is that polygamy covaries with oppression. It doesn't really matter which is causal. We can't eliminate all oppression immediately, but we *can* keep one of its more obvious symptoms illegal -- and we know that polygamy makes oppression even worse in those oppressive cultures (remember, I've got lots of studies), so it's a good symptom to squash.

"What if the woman was older?"

It doesn't matter which sib is older. They still grew up together and will have strong influence before the age of consent.

"adopted kids..."

I don't think their marriage would be illegal, but many would think it's questionable.

"1st cousins?"

They're legal in most places.

Out of space again!

mid-state, TN

@Kevin --

"Should laws be passed..."

You're still talking about different ballparks of risk -- and now you're also talking about different ballparks of invasiveness.

You'd have to test every single person in the country, and you'd have to test them for every single genetic disease known. That would require incredible expense, and would invade the privacy of several million citizens.

Even if you were willing to go that far, you still wouldn't need to ban carriers from marriage. The farthest you would need to go is banning carriers from marrying EACH OTHER.

Which is what we do with incest. We only ban relatives from marrying EACH OTHER. And we don't need any testing to prove the risks.

"100% with Sickle Cell..."


Less than 10% of blacks in the US carry SCT. Much less in other races. Again, you'd have to test every person in the country in order to prevent carriers from accidentally marrying each other.

And even if one carrier DOES happen to marry another, the possibility of homozygous offspring is still only 25%. Not 100%.

SCD occurs in 1 out of every 500 black births.

Genetic defects occur in 1 out of every **3** incestuous births.

Kevin J. Kirkham
Salt Lake City, UT

"That doesn't mean that polygamy causes men to be abusive."

So what? The important point is that polygamy covaries with oppression. It doesn't really matter which is causal.

Sure it does. Whether credit cause debt or people in debt demanding credit doesn't mean that credit should be outlawed. Let people be free to make their own choices and punish those who abuse others.

"100% [possibility] with Sickle Cell..."


Yes. Depending upon what type of carriers the parents are, the kids CAN have a 100% chance of getting it. The same is true for many other diseases. If your goal is to protect children, then everyone marrying should take blood tests to see if they are carriers for many diseases and if their collective risks would result in the kids having a high probability of disease, then they shouldn't marry.

If one/both of the incestuous couple has been sterilized, there is no reason for forbidding marriage. Not every family has power trip issues that you described. Let adults be do as they wish as long as they aren't objectively harming others.

mid-state, TN

@Kevin --

"...doesn't mean that credit should be outlawed. "

It is illegal to own drug paraphernalia.

Does paraphernalia cause addiction?

Nope, of course not -- but it makes it easier to use drugs and is closely correlated with drug usage.

By making paraphernalia illegal, we simply remove one tool from the drug user.

Similarly, by keeping polygamy illegal, we simply remove one tool which makes oppression of women easier.

"the kids CAN have a 100% chance of getting it. "

Nope. From the CDC website:

"If both parents have SCT (if both parents are carriers), there is a 25% (or 1 in 4) chance that any child of theirs will have SCD."

"If your goal is to protect children..."

You are assuming that one goal -- protecting children -- overrides every other consideration required for living in the real world. But the Real World requires that we balance our goals with things like expense and privacy rights.

"If one/both ... has been sterilized... "

Again, we can't pass laws based on one or two isolated cases. We base them on the increased RISK of harm overall, not on the CERTAINTY of it in every single possibility.

Riverton, UT

Since my daughters are all oppossed to gay marriages, I don't see that as an issue.

Riverton, UT

@ Truthseeker
Do you not listen to the talks of the leaders. They are reaching out to the 1 by helping them to see that they can be made whole through the love of Christ and have a fullfilling life with a partner of the opposite sex.

Riverton, UT

Can you prove how polygamy causes harm. Since it is recognized in other nations, by your argument, it should be recognized here.

mid-state, TN

@WRK --

"Can you prove how polygamy causes harm. "

Here's a few resources for you to start with. There are many studies available, but comment space is limited!

1. UN Report of the Human Rights Committee (HRC) 2007-2008 -- polygamy is "a practice which is an affront to women’s dignity and is incompatible with the Covenant" and "highly detrimental to women's rights"

2. UN International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) -- "Polygamy violates the dignity of women. It is an inadmissible discrimination against women. Consequently, it should be definitely abolished wherever it continues to exist."

3. Polygamy in Canada: Legal and Social Implications for Women and Children -- this is a 280 page tome with tons of details and references for you to peruse -- free on the net.

4. Polygyny as a Violation of Human Rights Law -- part of a research report by the Canadian Department of Justice -- this also has a lot of references.

5. A Comparison of Family Functioning, Life and Marital Satisfaction, and Mental Health of Women in Polygamous and Monogamous Marriages -- just one research study out of many

I can provide quite a few specific studies as well, if you're interested in more.

Hank Jr
Draper, UT

Why should they get special treatment? This isn't Obamacare.

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