Comments about ‘Science linked to morality’

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Published: Thursday, Oct. 10 2013 7:10 p.m. MDT

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Chemist
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

Mankind comes to its own opinions about what is moral or not, independently of religion. Some religious fanatics (such as the Taliban) obey the morals of their religion (which is actually pretty much the same as commanded in the Old Testament), but we Westerners have for the most part rejected many of these moral commandments. The fact that we have rejected the commandment to stone the disobedient child proves that we have not accepted the moral code that our religion commands.

Even if you tell me that I'm not understanding the Old Testament vs. the New Testament properly, do you want to claim that what was morally valid 3000 years ago became invalid 2000 years ago? The unchanging morality of God seems to have changed. I claim that it was just as much a moral error to stone a disobedient child 3000 years ago as it is now.

EternalPerspective
Eldersburg, MD

Contrariusier
Contrariuserer
Contrariusiest, etc.

Sharp absolute statements are not truth, nor can they justify moral relativism in the eyes of the thinking person who reads comments here. Truth is not man-made, yet many today esteem the intelligence of humankind to be superior to that of God, and even replace it.

I seek not to debate endlessly, but affirm God's truths in enemy territory where faith in God to fight the good fight is becoming less and less attractive to those who refuse to see because the philosophies of men are esteemed higher than the wisdom of God. Anyone can advocate truth and stand by statements with conviction, but does it make them true?

My hope ever shall remain to help someone who is sincerely looking for answers to life's questions and purpose to ponder what they may not have considered previously. The invitation to come unto Christ is a clarion call to all who desire to know God. No amount of secular / atheist rhetoric and rumor can negate the eternal truths of God. One simply must be willing to receive what the world cannot give to know of truth beyond human intelligence. The rest is simply noise.

Contrariusiest
mid-state, TN

@EternalPerspective --

"Sharp absolute statements are not truth"

Hey -- We agree on something!

You are correct. "Sharp absolute statements" are NOT truth. And that's just as true with absolute statements of morality as with any other absolutes.

"No amount of secular / atheist rhetoric and rumor can negate the eternal truths of God."

Watch out -- there you go with those absolute statements again. And as we already agree -- sharp absolute statements are NOT truth.

You said it yourself.

EternalPerspective
Eldersburg, MD

Truth is not relative nor is morality. Science contains many truths but of what context does Science operate? Or what governing force has defined the principles of truth that belong to Science?

Such a proposition boils down to 2 beliefs. On the one hand "chaos" theory is advocated as correct. Here, something essentially comes from nothing by the reaction of atomic elements that evolve into what we see today.

On the other, there is a "Grand Designer" of the universe that has created an expanse of space and organic matter that is so complex, Science has scarcely scratched the surface because we can comprehend only so much of God's works.

But, how about another twist? Maybe the reason why we don't know with certainty "everything" about the universe, world, and life forms is because it wasn't meant to be understood fully in this life. Science, medicine, technology and many other worldly disciplines have made enormous strides in a short amount of time to further define the world around us.

But, even the greatest scientists of the world who conduct truly empirical objective experiments are compelled to ask themselves at some point, how could God not exist?

Contrariuser
mid-state, TN

@EternalPerspective --

"Truth is not relative nor is morality. "

That's a nice sharp absolute statement. And you already told us that sharp absolute statements aren't truth.

You're contradicting yourself.

Also, you haven't offered us any evidence for your bold assertion that morality isn't relative. Please show us ONE absolute moral principle. A **moral** absolute, not a religious claim like "God exists".

" "chaos" theory is advocated as correct. Here, something essentially comes from nothing by the reaction of atomic elements that evolve into what we see today."

It isn't just "chaos" -- it's chaos, plus physics, plus logic, plus selection pressure, plus a whoooooooooole lotta time.

We already KNOW, for instance, that the building blocks of life -- amino acids and other organic compounds -- can be created without a Superior Being. All it takes is the elements of the "primordial soup" and energy. That has been demonstrated many times.

"even the greatest scientists of the world who conduct truly empirical objective experiments are compelled to ask themselves at some point, how could God not exist?"

Scientists ask themselves about lots of things -- that doesn't mean that any of those things actually exist. ;-)

EternalPerspective
Eldersburg, MD

No one could say God is false unless all subjectivity were to be removed from the experiment. Since this cannot be done without bias for input variables, nothing emphatic can be offered up as quantifiable evidence.

How do you know the building blocks of life exist without a Supreme Being? You don't know where they came from in the first place before they were building blocks. How does the primordial experiment then implicitly negate God? Where is the empirical evidence beyond opinion?

The reality of God can only be known only by those who will receive Him. Does that make God false because such prerequisites are not so easily demonstrated to the world? Just because something is “deemed” not real because belief is lacking in the first place does not mean existence is “false”.

Think how often science has been wrong in the past, only to be replaced with greater “accuracy” in the future because inputs changed. How is belief in God proportionate to a person's preparatory "shaping" life experiences that allow them to at last seek Him correctly any different?

Perhaps your experiment has assumed the wrong context the whole time...

The Scientist
Provo, UT

"Sharp absolute statements are not truth"

Except when they are blurted out by religious folks? (Who agree with Mormonism?)

Contrariuser
mid-state, TN

@EternalPerspective --

"No one could say God is false"

So what? I've never claimed that God is false.

It is not objectively possible to prove that God is false OR true, given our current state of knowledge. Both claims require faith.

"How do you know the building blocks of life exist without a Supreme Being? "

I never said they did.

Here's a hint: I'm not an atheist.

In the meantime, you still haven't shown us even one single absolute moral principle.

Keep trying.

Surely it shouldn't be all that hard to find even one single moral absolute?

Anyone?

Tyler D
Meridian, ID

@Contrariuser – “Surely it shouldn't be all that hard to find even one single moral absolute? Anyone?”

Here’s one… in fact the only one I have ever been able to deduce from the Bible.

Obey God!

I admit it’s not a very satisfying answer given some of the "morally relative" not to mention atrocious things the God of Abraham has commanded over time. Also, it’s really more of an edict than a moral principle.

Contrariusester
mid-state, TN

@Tyler D --

"Obey God!"

Nice try -- but that's a command, not a moral principle.

"Also, it’s really more of an edict than a moral principle."

Right.

Still no moral absolutes?? Anyone? Anyone?

How can so many people claim that morality is absolute, when nobody can even come up with a single absolute moral principle??

RedWings
CLEARFIELD, UT

Science is man's attempt to explain the physical world aroung him. Religion is man's attempt to communicate, relate, and understand his Creator. They deal with different concepts and dimensions.

God exists. He created all of us. That you cannot prove this in the physical world is no suprise to me. If you could, there would be no need for Faith. Only the foolish would deny God and His commandments if there were tangible, physical proof of His existence.

All I know is that I am a better man because of religion and my relationship with Jesus than I was as an extreme left-wing deist. My family knows that, too, becasue I treat them better.

If I am wrong and there is no God, then I still lived a better life by believing in Him. If the atheist is wrong, it will be a long eternity for him or her....

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