take back all utah lands. feds are not capable and have NO right overseeing it.
They ought to either call it a loan and get reimbursement once the shutdown is
over, or the state should be able to keep the proceeds from entry fees etc as
long as the state is funding operations.
@ute alumniHow can you "take back" something you never owned
to begin with?
adding to CHS's comment:...unless, that is, you are an actual
Here's the rub, anything after the 13 original colonies that became the 13
original states have a unique relationship with the government, meaning that
they were all FEDERAL territories that became states. Thus, states were created
AFTER federal ownership, again the only exception being the 13 original states
who were states BEFORE the Constitution under the Articles of Confederation. So
Ute Alumni, I guess it was federal land first. I would agree with you that it
would be great if some of this land was turned over to the states but the idea
it was Utah's first isn't accurate entirely. In fact, as OBHU said,
it really belonged to the Native Americans first and of course through
reservations, they still have some control under FEDERAL jurisdiction...
A good application of federalism. Finally some cooperation with government.
Common sense will prevail, at least in the relationship of State and Federal
government, in this area. Perhaps our congressmen and senators can learn from a
bit of common sense and get the federal government back to work. If the
sometimes competing executive branches of state and federal government can work
things out, the senators and representatives ought to do the same.Senator Lee. Take notice. Maybe read Federalist papers #62 and #63 and learn
what your role as Senator should be.
Sure wish the governor had the same level of concern for the welfare of the
women and children on WIC that he has for business owners in the tourist zones.
And now Urquart wants reimbursement if Utah takes over the parks? The mantra of
the West continues: Stay out of my business, but give me more money.
Bill Senator Lee.
Don't accept the government’s offer under these terms. The Park
Service has been partisan through this whole fight trying to make the shutdown
hurt more than it had to. This is a masterstroke maneuver on their part.States could run these parks using their own personnel at a minimal
staffing level through the shutdown. The Park Service is going to run up the
bill now paid by the state as fast as possible. Obama now looks like he’s
compromised, but every state with a growing bill they can’t control will
be pushing to end the shutdown so they can stop these costs being paid by the
state. The Park Service gets their people paid, sheds the public relations
disaster their heavy handed behavior created, and plants an incentive for the
states to come in on behalf of their man in the White House.If they
can’t use their own state personnel, the discretion about Park Service
staffing levels should be left to the state Governors. Accept the
government’s offer on those terms and call their bluff.
So now, Utahans are paying twice for the federal parks: fed taxes and state
taxes. Hopefully, you can get reimbursed by the feds. Good luck on that one. But
what's a state to do? Lose revenue from the parks' closure or pay to
have them open and get some revenue generated. Tough call.
Pres. Obama has said that he will not agree to anything that would cause the
government to pay ransom. But then he forces the states to pay ransom in order
to open the national parks. What a 2 faced person he is. A real piece of work.
We will be well rid of him in 2016 - I can hardly wait. Anyone would be better
than him - even Hilary (tongue in cheek!).
That's amazing that Democrats are only concerned with entitlement programs
and welfare. Here, hard working people have lost $3.5 million in 10 days, and
the governor's plan to use Utah money is to stop that loss. Even if Utah
doesn't get this national park money back, it's an investment that
will clearly pay needed dividends to Utahs and the state through tourism
dollars. Paying for federal welfare programs is money the state will never get
back, and it's money Utahns have already paid in federal taxes, so we would
end up paying for them twice.
Obama is using his power and position to hurt the most vulnerable, the poor and
everyday citizens and the veterans because he cant get his way.......he thinks
himself a dictator and needs an education on checks and balances...The office of
the POTUS is equal to either of the house or the senate and for good reason, as
he has proved by his childish antics.....
Better to give the money directly to the affected counties to use as welfare for
those impacted than to send it to Washington.You just have to
understand that the Park Service will bill every single thing they can think of,
plus a few more, and demand overtime and new gear, etc.Not a dime
will be repaid by the feds, and Utah will not get a dime from admission fees
collected by the feds. So, we will be paying federal taxes to run the parks,
state taxes to run the parks, and still pay admission fees to get in the parks.
A better course of action would be to tell the feds to get out of
the way, and to use the Highway Patrol, or National Guard if necessary to open
every road in the National Parks in Utah for vehicle traffic as a matter of
public safety and access as RS 2477 roads. If the Park folks object, then just
close down every highway outside of their park and keep them locked up
inside.A little sagebrush rebellion is a good thing when tyrannical
behavior is used against free people.
So many people are so easily governed.Remember the Alamo!Power to the People!
I applaud Governor Herbert for helping our fellow Utahns. However, I hold
Senator Lee and his ilk, as well as Utah's congressional delegation
accountable for the cost. If the aforementioned did not shut down the federal
government, the state coffers would not be needed to temporarily fund the
National Parks. Our state government is an example to the nation. We need our
Senior Senator, Orrin Hatch, to lead and help our other federal representatives
to govern and stop the shut down.
Since they are going to be paid at the end of the Shutdown their paychecks
should be direct deposited to the general fund of Utah. That shouldn't be
to hard for the Treasury to do. Just stop all that money we sent to Washington
in UTAH instead of shipping it to San Francisco and back again.
While operation of these National Parks are paid for by State tax dollars, they
should make the parks open to the public, no entrance fee. Advertise that
admission is free. It might generate greater attendance and the businesses in
the surrounding area that have been hurt by the closure might see a small gain.
Our tax money, our rules. If the feds what the money they can open the parks,
after all the park employees are getting paid for this time off.This
shutdown is all a fraud, for political purposes. The federal government
spending needs to be held within bounds. Thank you Sen. Lee for taking a stand
to stop out of control spending.
This is crazy! I don't remember ever signing on to this kind of nonsense. I
pay taxes to bail out one group of people in Southern Utah because the nation is
broke? Will the Governor and the State Legislature commit all of you
fine taxpayers come to my rescue because I'm a contractor who lost over
$100,000 in one day in 2008 because the owner of the building had his loan
pulled by Zions Bank during Tarp one?Did I cry and scream because of
the ineptness of Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac? Did I run to the governor and ask
for a bailout because my family was going hungry? No, I didn't, I sold my
house back to the Bank that shafted my client and quadrupled my CC debt. I
mothballed my company and went to work for whomever would pay me. I took nothing
from the government. My wife supported us for the past five years. I paid my
subs what I could, I still owe some of them.
Continued:I struggled to do what I could do to hold onto my business
and my home. I now have a little work that I hope will continue. None of you owe
me a dime. I will not ask it of you. My experience in not your experience and I
feel for everyone who falls on hard times, especially if it is beyond their
control.Times are hard enough, some of you have not had to go
through what I have and hope you don't but with all of that said no one
has the right to steal away my resources that I have produced through hard work
and thrift without my permission.I voluntarily give as much as I can
but do not steal it away from me.We must all suffer the consequences
of our government's ineptness, foolishness and sinister behavior. Debt is not equity, redistribution of wealth is not moral, hard times make the
producers stronger and handouts make us dependent, the opposite of
independent.Will we sell our birthright for a gulp from the public
trough, or feast at the table of work and fortitude and stand independent,
strong and free?
This deal could end faster than it happened. The governor and the department of
interior do not have the right or authority to contract with each other and
makes this deal illegal. States cannot contract with federal government and buy
federal services with blackmail or graft to gain favors. Southern
Utah has just put all their eggs in one basket where tourism and leisure and
entertainment are becoming less important in the lives of Americans living in
poverty. Poverty is the state of the economy and we are victims of government
greed that has enslaved our state to the federal government as subjects of the
nation. The federal lands belong to 300 million americans, not 2.5 million
welfare dependents in Utah. If Utah does send the interior
department funds then the interior department has to prioritize how they spend
this windfall $1.6 million dollars dumped in their laps. The interior
departments use the money to grant people with property in the parks or
houseboats on Lake Powell to remove them from the park so they don't get
vandalized and destroyed. Having a houseboat on lake Powell I'd use the
opportunity to remove it from the park ASAP.
gittalopctbi - so your complaint is that Utah received the benefit of the
federal parks, only paying proportionally a very small portion of the cost, and
now Utah is having to pay the full cost..... that is what your complaining
about. That this dysfunctional, can't do anything right federal
government, was providing the economic engine to these tows... and was missed?
And now Utah has to pay for that economic benefit? @Truth.... you
just don't get it.... too worried about being angry it seems. This is
checks and balances in action. Republicans want to kill existing law via the
budget rather than modifying the law.... and can't get it done because they
are the minority. If your old enough, we saw this same dance during Vietnam,
roles being reversed. Obama is no more trying to be a dictator than was
Nixon... no more than Lee is trying to be one either.
Okay, so let me get this straight: Utah's GOP expect the feds to repay the
state after the shutdown is over to cover the state's cost of running the
national parks. BUT it is the GOP itching to get the entire country to default
on its debt so that no gets paid... repaying Utah for running the parks will be
very low priority when it comes to paying nation's bills post-default...
With each passing day, the GOP is destined to lose the House in
While I am happy for the tourists, for the employees, and for the local business
owners, something stinks! Arizona wanted to reopen the Grand Canyon and was
Kudos to Governor Herbert for his leadership in getting something done -
something so very lacking in the White House.The State of Utah
should receive all the admission revenue or make entrance free as previously
suggested. It is wrong for the NPS to receive revenue at Utah's
expense.Also, SUWA continues its primary quest for relevance by
chiming in and sadly the DN bought in. Maybe the DN could also get their
opinion on the changes in the BCS...
Utah is re-distributiong wealth and picking and choosing who to help because of
the tea party tantrum.
"redistribution of wealth is not moral" No one receives in
proportion to what they pay - no one. They never had, and never will until we
go to a pay for services model. Until then, this nirvana like tax utopia is
impossible. You will never pay the fully loaded cost of what it takes to
educate our kids, or provide safety to our citizens.It all sounds
great as political rhetoric, but be really careful what you are asking for. You
do not pay the full cost of providing the road outside your house.
I applaud Governor Herbert for working out this deal with what appears to be a
reasonable Department of the Interior. Well done on both sides. Rationality
for all to see.If the State of Utah wants to be reimbursed for the
cost of operating the parks, I would start with going after Mike Lee and the
organizations and donors that supported his economic terror campaign.
They'll probably exclaim, "we had no idea it would lead to this",
but as the police are always quick to point out, ignorance is no excuse.
Here is a better question.How can it cost over $20,000 to run one
park for a day?Maybe that is what we need to be looking at.These parks should be self funding.
Who knew Utah had such deep pockets. Are all the state parks that were
previously closed now open? Are we fully maintaining our own facilities?
Governor Herbert could the state give the feds another $10.00 to open the
restrooms and the few roads they have closed. I am sure that's all it would
cost to open these facilities. Our Senator from Utah has really messed thing up.
Please compromise Senator Lee. This is not the way to fight the ACA.
To the outraged, did you think the parks were free? You're so
blinded by your ideology that you don't believe the feds do anything to
benefit you. I'm sure it costs easily over 100K to run Lake
Powell for a single day, with all the boating, fuel, the marinas, and facilities
there. It's expensive. Wanna save money, then alternative is to
close the parks to the public.
NOBODY seems to be aware that it is against Federal law to close national parks
"Jewell made it clear that she can't obligate the federal government to
pay the state back, Herbert said. He said he asked Utah’s congressional
delegation to pursue repayment."An invoice should be sent
directly to Mike Lee. Ask him to pay it from his campaign fund.
Governor Herbert could the state give the feds another $10.00 to open the
restrooms and the few roads they have closed at Strawberry Reservoir. I am sure
that's all it would cost to open these facilities. Our Senator from Utah
has really messed thing up. Please compromise Senator Lee. This is not the way
to fight the ACA.
Gov Herbert be very careful. The Obama administration promising a payback should
be viewed very carefully. Obamas honesty is highly suspect in anything other
than chaos and ruination.
"Utah na'l parks"? "Na'l" is not an abbreviation.
I like how conservatives want to take a chainsaw to gov't but once
they're impacted by cuts in any way, suddenly it's all "no
don't cut that, what are you doing?". Now if only they can figure out
that the other cuts harm other people...
Bravo, Gov. Herbert. Glad you're able to scrimp some money for things that
count; heaven knows that Utah's educational system couldn't have used
that money. In reality, the Federal gov't shouldn't pay
Gov. Herbert back for a single dime. You guys put Mike Lee in the Senate, you
should reap what you sew. Further, the sheer fact that Utah is a habitual
federal tax net debtor (Utah literally takes billions of dollars a year more
than it pays in Federal taxes) ought to preclude Utah from reimbursement. If
we're talking about settling debts, Utah ought to start paying California
because it's out checkbook that keeps your entire state running. Time to
exercise some actual responsibility, Gov. Herbert.
Make no mistake both sides of the political isle are at fault here.Depending on the poll 53-57% of Americans disapprove of obamacare. With every
passing day there is more discovered to NOT like.Republicans have
offered to negotiate and the President is on the record saying he will not until
a continuing resolution to fund the govt AND the debt ceiling are both
passed.So, last time you negotiated on a car did you agree to the
dealers asking price AND THEN try to negotiate down on the actual price you
pay?The UNaffordable care act is so NOT affordable for nearly
everyone. Even the poor with subsidies from our pockets can't afford the
ridiculous prices.Oblamo hooked up with insurance companies and now
we all are paying as much or more than before except now we all have
catastrophic plans. Thousands in out of pocket costs before our insurance pays
a dime. If you don't have that type of plan yet then watch out because it
is coming.This garbage system is by far worse than what I had
before. Now I pay more for a fraction of the coverage for my family.Wake up people!!!
If it's that expensive, lets just take the land back. That will be
Utah's part in "sharing the wealth" (code speak for sharing the
burden). Plus I'm sure with local control it won't be as expensive.
I look at the State of Utah's decision to fund the reopening of Utah's
Five national parks A SMART DECISION !!!. For example, Just outside of Zion is
Springdale, whose town's economy is driven by the Zion tourist trade and to
a lesser extent; Carmel Junction, Hurricane, St George and Cedar City. I'm
sure some State Governement Staffer ran the numbers and determined that Utah
paying the Feds to keep the Parks open would generate not only Multiple returns
on not only local economies but State Tax revenues as well. The Des-News staff
should chase done this Staffer's department and help tell this State action
better to the Utah public. I think this is a great example of (Utah state)
government doing right by the Utah Public and avoiding getting it's Oxen
gored by a Federal squabble thousands of miles away.
I would like to see Utah take back our lands. Why in the world do we allow the
Federal government to take our State land. They continually want to take more
and more. We are more equipped to manage our own lands. Given the
government's record of trying to manage everything and either making it
worse or failing, Utah, more than most states, has a work ethic that encourages
fruitful labors. Lets get out of the messes that be and retake our own State and
its lands back! No more depending on the government, and we would be helping our
own be productive citizens.
We should have re opened the centers for disease control.
If Utah took these lands back, taxes would jump. Utah is a "taker"
Noah:If you're going to push to have federal lands turned over
to the State of Utah (without any compensation to the rest of Americans who the
lands also belong to) I say why not go the extra step, do the right thing, and
turn these lands over to the Ute tribe, the Shoshone, the Gosutes, Paiutes and
Navajos.Their claim on the land has more moral authority than does
the claim from the current occupants of Utah. Don't take any half
measures. Go all the way.
Every one in Utah hates the federal government until the money stops coming.
Then they start crying...And then I pay more taxes to the state.
To help solve the root problem, while the legislature is in session, they need
to pass a resolution calling for an "Amendments Convention" to consider
a term limit amendment to the US Constitution that radically overhauls congress.
This is a unique, and tragically never-used power that 34 state legislatures
collectively have at their disposal. Such an amendment would then have to be
ratified by 38 states to become part of the constitution. Absolutely no
involvement from the current congress is required. None.That
amendment would provide that 1) all congressmen shall serve only a single
four-year term and 2) all senators shall serve only a single eight-year term,
and 3) the people would have the power to recall said congressman or senator
with 2/3 agreement of all votes cast in a special election called by the
governor of the state. Note the focus on single but longer terms.
Yes, that is correct, single terms. Therefore, no post-election campaigning.
This is the only way to clean out Washington, get rid of the
politicking once and for all, and finally have a congress that is representative
of the people and not some special or party interest.
yea this is all President Obama's fault, he's the one who personally
shut down each and every national park. Wrong, absolutely wrong! He has no
funding for them, without congress agreeing to fund them, there is no money,
this is not the fault of the President as much as the blowhards on the radio or
the right wing propaganda machine would like you to believe, it's kind of
difficult for the president to operate the federal government if congress
won't authorize the spending! Why is it everyone else seems to get this
but a growing few who refuse to accept reality?
The SL Trib is reporting Zion NP opened up at about 10am local time today and
should be fully open as the day progresses. The people of Springdale are very
happy, the Tourists from the UK are happy.
Thanks for the example of how to Govern and show leadership. A republican
Governor working with secretary Jewell to solve a problem that was not of their
own making. I wish the President and Congress could take a lesson.
@Anti Government"Depending on the poll 53-57% of Americans disapprove
of obamacare. "Real Clear Politics average of polls 38.0%
approve. 48.3% disapprove. Only one of the 6 polls on the list had a disapproval
rating in the 53-57 range (CNNs 57% disapproval) and that's the only poll
of the 6th to be conducted before October 1st. Then there's the
other matter. Not everyone who disapproves of Obamacare wants it repealed. Some
of those who disapprove (around a quarter of them based on CNN polls) disapprove
because it's not liberal enough. Those people are not going to be
supportive of GOP efforts at dismantling health reform and replacing it with
How can it possibly cost that much to keep a national park open, especially when
the park collects $20 each time someone enters the park? How about the
government just closes down any facilities and lets people enjoy nature the way
God intended - for free!?