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BYU poll: Attorney General John Swallow should resign and Sen. Mike Lee should compromise

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  • Truth Whisperer Chandler, TX
    Oct. 14, 2013 9:36 a.m.

    And it continues... I don't care if we are talking about Government Workers, Welfare Recipients, Food Stamp Recipients or whatever ... If they are receiving pay or benefits from tax money and there are more people receiving than paying then that is a recipe for significant financial trouble... I am not suggesting that those who work in Government Related jobs or receive publicly paid benefits are not deserving, I am simply saying that if there are more of them than those who are paying for them then there is a strong probability that we can't afford it and Revisions need to be made.

    Policemen, Firemen, or Teachers are honorable positions... You're the one that is attempting to spin my comments to make it look like that is what I am implying... I'm NOT.... In fact I am not even saying that people receiving welfare, food stamps or whatever benefits is not honorable even though you imply that I am...

    I am simply saying... and please read my words carefully... We can't afford the debt load...

    Let me say it differently, we have to stop spending money we don't have... Adjustments have got to be made...

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 12, 2013 4:57 p.m.

    poyman, what spin? I said you were wrong, I provided sources that show you were wrong, I provided a quote from the author of the original study saying you are wrong, and you admit you are wrong: "it is true that stating more people are on welfare than are working is inaccurate. . . ". Spin? What more could you want?

    I also stated that Baldwin's study is seriously flawed. It is. He is comparing people working in the private sector against people on Medicare and those working in public sector jobs, (the fact he has to combine these groups to get the results he wants show hos flawed the study is) and he is trying to draw conclusions about the fiscal health of a state based on this. Yes, his study is flawed. He also states that those in the private sector are "gainfully employed", as opposed to those in the public sector. In other words, he is making the claim that cops, firefighters, teachers, and other government workers are a drain on society, never realizing that without these people there would not be a functioning private sector in which to be gainfully employed.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Oct. 12, 2013 1:04 p.m.

    I reread my previous post and it looks like I got a little sloppy at the end... In my defense, it was late...

    What I meant to say is that Obama's Administration has taken debt from $10 Trillion to $17 Trillion in just under 5 years during a time of relative peace... "W" took the debt from about $5 Trillion to $10 Trillion with two wars and had to put the military back together again after Clinton reduced Defense Spending by the largest amount of dollars and budget percentages than any other country in recoreded history...

    Obama is showing Budget shortfalls of over a Trillion a year which is an overspend rate of about 5% of America's total GDP every year. America's current GDP is about $22 Trillion... And, with our current debt reaching $17 Trillion and on course to be between $20 Trillion and $22 Trillion by the time that Obama leaves office this country's debt load will have gone from about 45% of GDP to 95% of GDP in 8 short years... The interest to serve that debt will be between $1.2 and $1.5 Trillion or roughly 6% of this country's total annual revenue...

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Oct. 12, 2013 10:40 a.m.

    @mark

    You act like my statement regarding the 11 states is totally off base... It's not...

    Your "spin" makes it sound like there is no merrit... It is true that the accusations originated from a Forbes article written by Baldwin, and it is true that stating more people are on welfare than are working is inaccurate... But the real truth is not too far away from that...

    Baldwin actually says that there are more people using or dependent on the tax dollar in those 11 states than there are people with jobs... He goes on to say that if you have to move to one of these states, don't buy a house, rent instead, because these states are financially circling the drain... In fact, there is a nice pretty chart that lays out this information in some detail.

    So while some correction maybe appropriate, your spin is not.

    People need to look at the article and the dialog with Baldwin themselves. Then draw their own conclusions...

    Whether more people are drawing welfare than actual people working, or more people receiving benefits and wages (including welfare) from tax dollars makes little difference to me.It's still money.

  • Eliyahu Pleasant Grove, UT
    Oct. 12, 2013 7:35 a.m.

    Mr. Swallow may want to think that the Federal government has somehow exonerated him, but they did not. All that they determined was that his actions hadn't violated any Federal laws. It says nothing at all about State laws, Bar Association rules and ethical opinions, or whether he is simply using his office for personal benefit. Our prisons are full of people who would have been cleared by a Federal investigation for the simple reason that the crimes they committed were violations of Utah statutes and didn't infringe upon Federal laws. When this is all over, Swallow will likely fall into that category as well.

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 11, 2013 2:35 p.m.

    "The 11 states that I spoke of where there are now more people collecting welfare related benefits that people actually having jobs and paying taxes are as follows:"

    Poyman, this claim isn't true, I don't care what that chain email told you. It would only take ten seconds to look up the actual information on the Internet. Here, since you are having trouble finding reliable information I'll help you:

    "Chain email says 11 states have more people on welfare then employed", politifact, (rated pants on fire, as in liar, liar, pants on fire)

    "Death Spiral States?" Factcheck (Q: Do 11 states now have more people on welfare than they have employed?
    A: A viral email making this claim is off base.)

    "Spike That Email About Welfare And Work; Fact Checkers Say It's Not True", NPR, Mark Memmot

    In fact William Baldwin, the person that did the original "study", the email is based on says this according to NPR, "what he reported and what the email says 'are not the same thing at all. . . "

    And, as far as that goes Baldwins "study" is seriously flawed, at least in the conclusions it draws.

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 11, 2013 12:37 p.m.

    Shane, you, nor Coulter, aren't informed on this issue. First of all nothing in any continuing resolution says that Congress is exempt from the ACA. And nothing says "the only reason the government is shut down right now is that Democrats refuse to fund the government if they are required to live under Obamacare." As Coulter claims.

    Perhaps you need to educate yourself to the mythical congressional exemption. Coulter never will, she is a partisan with no concern for the truth.

  • belief101 Logan, UT
    Oct. 11, 2013 10:33 a.m.

    I love the question about Mike Lee. How about a question asking if Democrats should compromise? Just the question itself shows political bias. Secondly, Mike Lee is doing what he was sent there to do, change things. We had years and years of "compromising" with Bob Bennett and look where its gotten us. Come on people wake up. The Democrats have NO interest in compromising so why should we?

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Oct. 10, 2013 11:57 p.m.

    @utahbluedevil... this unfortunately is the fastest that I could get back to my comment... Now I am guessing that you probably won't see my response and that's too bad...

    The 11 states that I spoke of where there are now more people collecting welfare related benefits that people actually having jobs and paying taxes are as follows:

    California,
    New York,
    Illinois,
    Ohio,
    Maine,
    Kentucky,
    South Carolina,
    Mississippi,
    Alabama,
    New Mexico and
    Hawaii.

    It takes 10 seconds to look it up on the internet... If you have trouble, let me know and I will give you the URL.

    When I focused on debt I was talking about the runaway spending that Obama and this Administration are engaged in... It's unmatched in our 235 years of existence during times of peace... Even with two wars, Bush managed to see debt increase a total of $5T... Without wars Obama and his minions have already spent $7T through 5 years (more than a trillion a year)promising to add $10T to the debt in his two terms (a total debt of $22T)... A record that I doubt will ever be broken. BTW, our annuall GDI is only $22T...

  • Shane333 Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 10, 2013 2:49 p.m.

    mark,

    It was part of the Continuing Resolution submitted Sept. 30. Apparently Ann Coulter and I were the informed people in this case.

  • Spellman789 Syracuse, UT
    Oct. 10, 2013 2:42 p.m.

    What's to negotiate about opening up the government? They congress could vote on it and open it up. Most of them want to, but GOP do not want to open it up without concessions. Sounds like a hostage situation to me and the few extremists in America and Utah apparently support that. If the president is one extreme the GOP Tea Party are the other - neither in a good way.

  • Thinkman Provo, UT
    Oct. 10, 2013 1:11 p.m.

    What about Barry, Harry and Nancy?

    Shouldn't they also compromise? Why is it always a one-side compromise. That isn't a compromise, that is a capitulation. Mike won't capitulate. Compromise means giving up something for something else.

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 10, 2013 12:30 p.m.

    " Keep in mind that the most recent compromise submitted by the Republicans is for EVERYONE to be subject to Obamacare. How many of you know that politicians and their staff got an exemption from Obamacare? Mike Lee and other Republicans are just requesting that the Democrat politicians accept participation in Obamacare just like the rest of us."

    "the only reason the government is shut down right now is that Democrats refuse to fund the government if they are required to live under Obamacare."

    Shane, Ann Coulter has a history of being exceptionally uninformed. Why would you want to be?

  • Shane333 Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 10, 2013 11:40 a.m.

    I'll quote Ann Coulter, since she summarized it so well.

    "the only reason the government is shut down right now is that Democrats refuse to fund the government if they are required to live under Obamacare."

    Consider that for a moment, and then ask yourself why any rational person would blame Sen. Lee for that?

  • Shane333 Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 10, 2013 11:12 a.m.

    The irony here is that many of those who now criticize Sen. Lee will be praising him later once the full impact of Obamacare is felt. In the long run Lee will be revered for doing all he could to stop Obamacare.

    And neither Sen. Lee nor the GOP as a whole are responsible for the shutdown. Keep in mind that the most recent compromise submitted by the Republicans is for EVERYONE to be subject to Obamacare. How many of you know that politicians and their staff got an exemption from Obamacare? Mike Lee and other Republicans are just requesting that the Democrat politicians accept participation in Obamacare just like the rest of us.

    So really, it is the Democrats who are holding the Federal Budget hostage to protect themselves from having to participate in Obamacare. Not the Republicans holding anybody nor anything hostage.

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    Oct. 10, 2013 10:47 a.m.

    The public lost confidence in John Swallow quite a while ago. It is not new news that a solid majority feels he should resign. It's because of his personal pride that he won't do what's right for his party and for the state of Utah. That becomes totally obvious as he allows this $3 million investigation to proceed, rather than resign and allow that taxpayer money to go much better use in this very tight economy.

    Even if he stays, he can never render enough service to pay back the $3 million he is costing taxpayers by staying. On top of that, he will never be effective as the state's attorney general since the vast majority of citizens simply don't trust him... and never will. His unethical conduct... legal or not... is already proven and established... something that will stay with him regardless of the outcome of the investigation.

    John, please do yourself a favor and listen to your constituents for once. Please resign now... ASAP.

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    Oct. 10, 2013 10:35 a.m.

    @ Doug 10:

    You are right in saying that Mitt said he would keep part of the healthcare program... but ONLY part. Please don't forget that the majority of the country currently does NOT want Obamacare as it currently is. Republicans have now backed off and offered a very reasonable compromise. They are no longer holding the country hostage. It is now the president and Democrats who have stated outright that they will not compromise. Therefore it is they who are now holding the country hostage.

    Republicans have offered to fully fund Obamacare if the president will simply give the general public the same option Obama has already given to his personal special interest groups... to have the option of waiting a year to sign up while the most obvious bugs in Obamacare get addressed and corrected. Totally reasonable. And people who want to sign up right away still have that option as well.

    When looked at the updated situation objectively, it's undoubtedly the Democrats who are now the ones throwing a tantrum and saying that have to have EVERYTHING their own way or they are taking their ball and going home. Ridiculous!

  • U-tar Woodland Hills, UT
    Oct. 10, 2013 9:40 a.m.

    I wonder how high the unemployment rate would be in this country, if all pollsters were laid off.

  • SG in SLC Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 10, 2013 9:33 a.m.

    @MapleDon

    I literally laughed out loud when you called Doug Wright a "radical". Almost everyone who knows ANYTHING about Doug Wright (including Doug Wright himself) would categorize him as generally a moderate-conservative.

    The problem with obsession with ideological purity is that the circle of people whow qualify (the "non-RINOs", in this case) becomes ever-smaller as people eventually succumb to fear, greed, pragmatism, compassion, higher priorities, and a myriad of other things that end up being dissonant with the ideology, until the extreme logical conclusion is reached, where everyone else is viewed as corrupt, and the only "right-thinking" person left is "you". Sen. Mike Lee is on this path (as are several others, in and out of Congress).

    On the other hand, I don't think this is AG John Swallow's problem. His fatal flaw is hubris; specifically, that belonging to the state's supermajority party somehow endows him with an intrinsic moral superiority and allows him to act with impunity and play fast and loose with laws and ethics in his pursuit of self-interest.

  • U-tar Woodland Hills, UT
    Oct. 10, 2013 8:53 a.m.

    The Polling people forgot to call me.

  • Doug10 Roosevelt, UT
    Oct. 10, 2013 8:32 a.m.

    I thought that Utah was going to be an exemplar state, where leaders set examples.

    I guess they are.

    Mr. Lee your right to hold the country hostage is over. That ended when the people re-elected Pres Obama. It is now law. Even Mitt said he would keep part of the healthcare program had he been elected.

    Your shennanigans have splintered the party you are a member of making them nearly unelectable in the next election.

    Mr. Lee you are not a Republican and I wish that you would identify yourself as an independent and run on that ticket. With a party split they will continue to suffer at the hands of the system. Were you able to see beyond your personal issues you could do much more for those who elected you by changing the rules within the affordable care act even though that might get you as many headlines.

    Mr. Swallow you can justify things in your own mind but as your job is the highest ethical legal person in Utah demands your personal life be inline with that mandate and yours has not been.

    You are a person in a glass house...and a stone thrower

  • MapleDon Springville, UT
    Oct. 10, 2013 8:11 a.m.

    It's interesting that DesNews comes out with this story on the very day Pres Obama's job approval number hits its all-time low of 37%. (For comparison, George Bush's low was 36%...and you in the media went crazy over that, unlike today). Why isn't that a bigger story? (Duh, we know.)

    Further, have you considered taking a poll of the people to find out their view as to whether the Senate Democrats should compromise? (I'll answer for you. No.)

    Better yet, have you asked the public whether they believe the President should compromise, specially after he said (and you kept VERY quiet) on Tuesday that he would NOT negotiate (compromise)? (Again I'll answer for you. No.)

    Just like the rest of the media (and your buddy, Doug Wright @ KSL), you've shown your hand. Your view is that compromise is a duty and obligation of the Republicans, not the Democrats.

  • i am hank Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 10, 2013 8:02 a.m.

    @Utah_1,

    Your comment is totally irrelevant to this discussion. Why bring up the caucus system debate here? I'll be glad to debate the merits (or, more accurately, the lack of merits) of the caucus system with you, but this thread is about how Utahns view Mike Lee and John Swallow, not about whether or not the caucus system should be maintained.

  • New Yorker Pleasant Grove, UT
    Oct. 10, 2013 7:53 a.m.

    Tea Party = Anarchists in Patriot's Clothing.

    For them America is some 200 year old myth that never existed in real life, not the America of John Kennedy and Ronald Regan.

    America has worked because we cared about each other, not because we were perfect people neither perfect idealogues.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 10, 2013 6:43 a.m.

    Senator lee failed nod should resign.

  • BYUalum South Jordan, UT
    Oct. 10, 2013 5:40 a.m.

    DNS2 and Patriot: Both of you are absolutely correct. It is Mike Lee and conservatives who have compromised and come to the bargaining table. Obama is the one who will not and states publicly that he will not compromise. He will talk to Iran but not the Republicans. The DN, BYU, and the media do not pay attention.

    John Swallow is also a victim of the liberal media who loved to lick its chops and go after a story line. Baloney. This is a good man who will be cleared. Guilty until proven innocent should not be the way we have justice in this great country.

  • Proud Ute ,
    Oct. 10, 2013 5:38 a.m.

    Whoever is advising Mike Lee should be fired too. He can't be this clueless by all by himself.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Oct. 10, 2013 5:17 a.m.

    Potman.... where do you get your facts. This country was in debt before we had a constitution.... and has been in debt, increasing that debt year over year for over 200 years. And then factoids like your 11 state comment... by the numbers, that isn't all that hard to see. If on average the work force is just a little more than 50 percent of people, it is not hard to see how through medicare, WIC, educational funding, unemployment, disabilities, and low wage jobs that are below the poverty level.... that in the aggregate there are more receiving benefits.

    I don't say this to pick a fight with you, only that history has been distorted. We have this overly rosie view of the past. For example, compared to the great depression, all the KPis and measures don't even come close to the state of the government at that time.

    No doubt - debt needs to be reigned in. Governments delivery of services needs to be more efficient. But lets not distort the past or not put it in proper context.

  • MapleDon Springville, UT
    Oct. 10, 2013 1:03 a.m.

    Mike Lee is doing a fantastic job in Washington. I'm proud of him. Unfortunately, the progressives and leftists who control the media not only nationally but also locally hate the guy. The most vocal critic of Mike Lee in this state is Doug Wright (KSL), who spends nearly every day ripping into him. All of these people (radicals as far as I'm concerned) exert their influence to shape public opinion.

    Why the hatred? Because they're threatened. They're scared. Anyone with a will to voice opposition to the progressive government takeover of our lives is a threat.

  • There You Go Again Saint George, UT
    Oct. 9, 2013 11:14 p.m.

    This poll doesn't confirm my personal pre-conceived bias which is dutifully confirmed daily by fox news, right-wing radio personalities, right-wing blogs, right-wing chain e-mails, drudge, ect., ect, so it must be wrong.

    right?

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Oct. 9, 2013 10:34 p.m.

    Doesn't pass the smell test... Sorry.

    I don't believe that 56% of Utah Voters believe that it is okay to keep spending money that we don't have...

    This community of all communities believes that we have to live within our means and I simply don't believe that Utahn's say it's okay to keep spending money and pass the bill on to future Taxpayers... Are parents didn't do it to us and they went through some real hard times (Depression, WWII, etc.) Whether we are talking about Obamacare, welfare, food stamps, whatever... You can't spend what you don't have regardless of how noble the cause... it's not fair or right...

    I haven't seen the questionaire but based on these results I would say that there is something wrong with it...

    This Country has always been fiscally conservative... To all of a sudden say that Utahn's don't care about how deep we get in debt simply doesn't make sense... Today there are 11 states who have fewer working people paying taxes than they have people receiving taxpayer funded benefits... That's a recipe for financial disaster.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 9, 2013 9:28 p.m.

    Senator Lee did compromise. For heaven sake where have you been D-NEWS? It is Barack that won't compromise.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Oct. 9, 2013 9:15 p.m.

    "and your children will be much less well off than their parents.'

    This line always cracks me up, because the same crowd could care less about leaving the planet in great shape.... just their wallets...

    ... but here you have it, another survey from the left leaning BYU supporting the media mainstream again in brain washing us all to their socialist ploy to take over America and deliver it to the muslims..... ( I hope you all understand just how tongue in cheek that was).

    Poll after poll like this continue to show that neither extreme represents the majority of what Americans think nor believe. Most Americans want world leading national defense, world class leading services from our government, done with the core value that the government is spending our money - and needs to do so wisely. The other stuff is just noise from those who would try to divide in order to gain more power and influence.

    We are all far less apart then the wedge issues being used would indicate.

  • ronnie sandy, utah
    Oct. 9, 2013 9:01 p.m.

    Subscriber 2

    "A federal investigation already cleared him" So you trust the federal government now. Does not sound like a "Mike Lee kind of a guy". By the way My children are already suffering economically relative to what I experienced. I owe it to them to provide some form of affordable health care.....don't you?

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Oct. 9, 2013 9:00 p.m.

    @DN Subscriber 2
    SLC, UT

    Polls like this are nothing but a pop quiz to see if the media narrative is successful in twisting the views of people who really don't pay much attention, or know the details.

    =========

    I'm a Vietnam War era alumnus.

    I'll take the OpenMinded opinions of University and College students over FoxNews fed folks anyday.

    Just like the Communist media fed students in Tiananmen Square in 1989.

  • DN Subscriber 2 SLC, UT
    Oct. 9, 2013 8:34 p.m.

    Polls like this are nothing but a pop quiz to see if the media narrative is successful in twisting the views of people who really don't pay much attention, or know the details.

    Mike Lee is one of the five best Senators in Washington today, and doing heroic work trying to save this country from destruction. Even working for those who do not realize how bad things will be if Obama fully implements his healthcare scheme, and borrows a few more trillion dollars to give away. You WILL be getting the bill in your future taxes, and your children will be much less well off than their parents.

    John Swallow is a solid conservative, and therefore a popular target for a number of groups, and they all piled on after some bogus charges made by a convicted felon. A federal investigation already cleared him, and the remaining investigations are ones started so other politicos could claim they are "doing something" while avoiding defending him or citing non-existent evidence.

  • plumber20313 salt lake, UT
    Oct. 9, 2013 8:31 p.m.

    hurray for mike lee for standing up for what is right and for what he believes. maybe we should find out all the information on john swallow before we convict him and kick him out i thought it was only with the irs that you were guilty first then you had to prove your innoconce

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 9, 2013 8:13 p.m.

    Tea party havoc.

  • Gandalf Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 9, 2013 8:06 p.m.

    Hard to say, as between these two, who is more culpable. And that's a sad comment on both.

  • Red San Antonia, TX
    Oct. 9, 2013 8:00 p.m.

    Swallow really should go,

    Senator Lee. We voted for you because we need you would not lay down on the job. Stand tall.

    But, never forget that you work for me and all my buddies in America.

    The People are in charge.

    You all need to get out of our way when we want to go visit the Grand Canyon or Zion. Those are our parks.

    Power to the People!

  • Wally West SLC, UT
    Oct. 9, 2013 7:52 p.m.

    to O M M...

    Sadly, neither will occur.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Oct. 9, 2013 7:24 p.m.

    Wow!

    So it's NOT just me.

    Mike Lee and John Swallow can't even get passing opinions from BYU.

    That should say something.