Comments about ‘Boy Scouts remove 'God' from oath in UK, welcome atheists to the ranks’

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Published: Wednesday, Oct. 9 2013 6:10 p.m. MDT

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Salt Lake City, UT

For those who are commenting on this article and indicate that science somehow invalids the belief in God and therefore the UK scouts are correct in their decision - Please explain your scientific theory for the following:

How was life created in the first place (meaning DNA molecules being formed etc.)?

Why do humans have a conscience?

How was the earth is perfectly designed to support the millions of forms of life?

As someone with a graduate degree in a scientific field I am geniunely curious about your response. I could list many other questions but these will suffice for now.

Glendale, AZ

Shout out to Pilot70, jskains, paintandestroy, procuradorfiscal, & tenx.

@Beverly Watch out for what YOU believe in (science). Science has shown time and time again that it is clearly NOT infallible nor free from corruption. Let's go way back to when Science embraced geocentrism until Galileo came along. So I guess logic changes? (Just following your argument here.) And what about the modern day Myth (with a capital "M") of "anthropomorphic global warming?" Talk about falsifying data, money greed, and manipulation. And let's not forget, according to your "infallible" Science, we actually should have been already dying and extinct by now from an ice age that was supposed to occur in the 80's and 90's. At least that's what Science said.

I'm with all the shout outs above--Look, you atheists can go form your own organization. I would applaud that. It's your right. I'm disappointed that the UK Boy Scouts caved. It's their organization and others who do not agree with it should just mind their own business. And the UK Boy Scouts should understand and mind its business and do it well.

Tyler D
Meridian, ID

@1978 – “As someone with a graduate degree in a scientific field I am geniunely curious about your response.

I have never heard a scientist claim that science is all done and we now have all the answers.

So the more interesting question is, “what’s wrong with simply saying I don’t know?”
Is it your contention that you know how all this was done, or at least the “Being” responsible for it (assuming one is needed, which is doubtful given our knowledge of evolutionary biology)?

And here are a couple questions that I think puts this topic in better perspective:

1.Name a demonstrable fact about the natural world for which we once had a religious explanation but now have a better scientific explanation.

2.Name a demonstrable fact about the natural world for which we once had a scientific explanation that has now been superseded by a better religious explanation.

I hope it’s obvious that the answer to #1 is “countless” and the answer to #2 is “none.” What would anyone believe this solely one-directional trend won’t continue?

Glendale, AZ

@Bleed Crimson and to any others that read Moontan's comment--he was being very (hilariously IMO) sarcastic!

Roanoke, VA

@Bleed Crimson ... I was being facetious. In truth, I entirely agree with you. Removing references to God will have only negative consequences, as indeed we see happening now.

Vincentown, NJ

Are the Scouts becoming anti-science? Because there is science which proves the existence of God. Nuclear physicist, Dr. Gerald Schroeder, retired MIT professor, has written several books on the proof of God:

"The Science of God: The Convergence of Science and Biblical Wisdom"

"The Hidden Face of God: Science Reveals the Ultimate Truth."

"God According to God: A Scientist Discovers We've Been Wrong About God All Along."

Rocket Science
Brigham City, UT

Happy Valley, I respectifully correct your view. The Boy Scout Movement Lord Baden Powell began was not to prepare young men for military but rahter to prepare young men to me jesus Christ at his coming. You can say that is a myth or whatever but the very basis of Boys Scouts was and is religion. As they abandon that base in GB Boys Scout will begin to crumble. I feel sorry for the young men and boys of Great Britan - the birth Place of the greatest youth movement the world has known.

Please consider the approach reflected in Robert Baden-Powell’s vision of Scouting. “There is no religious side to the movement,” he declared in 1920. “The whole of it is based on religion, that is, on the realisation and service of God.”

Happy Valley Heretic
Orem, UT

20 years later he may have said that, but that's NOT how or why it started.

In 1900, Baden-Powell became a national hero in Britain for his 217-day defense of Mafeking in the South African War. Soon after, Aids to Scouting, a military field manual he had written for British soldiers in 1899, caught on with a younger audience. Boys loved the lessons on tracking and observation and organized elaborate games using the book. Hearing this, Baden-Powell decided to write a nonmilitary field manual for adolescents that would also emphasize the importance of morality and good deeds.

First, however, he decided to try out some of his ideas on an actual group of boys. On July 25, 1907, he took a diverse group of 21 adolescents to Brownsea Island in Dorsetshire where they set up camp for a fortnight. With the aid of other instructors, he taught the boys about camping, observation, deduction, woodcraft, boating, lifesaving, patriotism, and chivalry. Many of these lessons were learned through inventive games that were very popular with the boys. The first Boy Scouts meeting was a great success.

Saratoga Springs, UT

"We must never give up. We must not become discouraged. We must never surrender to the forces of evil. We can and must maintain the standards for which this Church has stood since it was organized. There is a better way than the way of the world. If it means standing alone, we must do it. But we shall not be alone. I am confident that there are millions of people throughout the world who grieve over the evil they see about them. They love the virtuous, the good, and the uplifting. They too will raise their voices and give of their strength to the preservation of those values which are worthy of maintenance and cultivation." ~ Gordan B. Hinckley 1-10-2004

I know this mentions the LDS Church, but it is the standards of the church that this quote refers too. Yeah, not quite sure I would argue this.

Does principal, character, values, moral value mean anything to anyone anymore? This WORLD was created and built on principals,character and moral value. Atheist can not say they were built on the same thing, because Atheism was built on negative teachings. You can't argue that point.

Happy Valley Heretic
Orem, UT

I'm and Eagle Scout with 6 palms. I've worked at scout camps in Utah and Catalina Island for years. Religion really is a side note, Not the main attraction to scouting. Do folks really believe that another church meeting to preach religion is attracting young men?

Camping, exploring, learning skills and games and socializing is why scouts have existed so long.

Salt Lake City, UT

@Tyler D

So your answer to questions 1, 2 & 3 are:

I don't know

I don't know

I don't know

Thank You for your response.

Orem, UT

Thank you BSA. I no longer feel like I have to give to nor will I give to "Friends of Scouting".

Huntsville, u

It could actually work out OK, because when these kids see how things in life actually work, they might start believing in a Power Greater than themselves. I just call that Power God.

Saint George, UT

And what may I ask is a 'spiritual life?' Hitler thought he was spiritual, and the humanists (an oxymoron if there ever was one)will never explain what that means because they haven't a clue as to what it means. Whatever they say can only be construed as prejudice against those who have a different view. When you can't find an answer or a definition, doesn't that say something about your educational level, or at minimum, your prejudice, bias, and bigotry?

clearfield, UT

Tyler D

You must not realize that prophets in scripture knew much more about the universe, than science did back in the days when the earth was flat, or the sun revolved around the earth, was the best science of the day. I'm referring to the Pearl of Great Price.

And while we are at it. All you need to prove to us is that "something" can come from "nothing" and I will believe in evolution and give up this belief in a prime mover. You and I both know that until that "unprovable" theory is proven, you evolutionists are pretty well stuck as to explain the of existance of any kind of matter at all.

Salt Lake City, UT

To 1978
Answers for you
1. Evolution-There are several books out there. If you really know science I know you can find them.

2. Evolution-A conscience could be described as moral behavior. Humans are not the only ones with moral behavior. Moral behavior is an evolutionary advantage for the survival of the group. An example would be the work of Frans de Waal and the morality of animals.

3. I will quote Douglas Adams for this one "Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, "This is an interesting world I find myself in — an interesting hole I find myself in —fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!" This is what some humans believe about their world. It wasn't made for us, we just evolved to fit it like every other species on Earth.

Happy Valley Heretic
Orem, UT

Saying it's magic or a God did it, is not a rebuttal to science as to why something exists, it's just lazy.

Religion has always feared science, nothing new, except they aren't aloud to kill them anymore.

Tyler D
Meridian, ID

@1978 – “So your answer to questions 1, 2 & 3 are: I don't know… Thank You for your response.”

Sure… what’s your point?

And can we assume by your lack of response to my two questions that you agree with the answers and that our best course of action for pursuing the answers to those questions is through science and not religion?

@SCfan – “…prove to us is that "something" can come from "nothing" and I will believe in evolution and give up this belief in a prime mover.

You missed the point – which was not that science has all the answers, but rather what is our best means of attaining knowledge about the natural world. So far, science is ahead of religion by about a million to zero, but who knows what the future holds… maybe religion is due for a rally.

And real science (i.e., testable hypotheses, predictions, open to falsification) is only about 400 years old. Prior to that and with few exceptions (e.g., bits of Aristotle) it was all just speculations, much of it with lots of religious & superstitious overtones.

Reached comment limit…

The Scientist
Provo, UT

SCfan wrote:

"...prophets in scripture knew much more about the universe, than science did back in the days when the earth was flat, or the sun revolved around the earth, was the best science of the day. I'm referring to the Pearl of Great Price."

IF prophets did know much more about the universe than science, they sure failed to leave any evidence of such knowledge. And the evidence they did leave in scripture (including the PofGP) is seriously flawed.

Spider Rico
Greeley, CO

There are more holes in the theory of evolution than it would take to fill the Albert Hall. The more science I learn and understand the more my faith is bolstered. God made an infinitely complex universe and one can see His hand in the most minute particle of matter.

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