After only five weeks, however, head to head still rules
Well duh! Utah gets up for one game year and then folds. BYU plays out the
season. We just need to trust the experts and not chris b.
Teams currently ranked on byu's schedule: zeroTeams currently ranked
on utah's schedule: fourRankings don't totally take into
account strength of schedule, or a Texas AM team that barely lost to Alabama
wouldn't have dropped in rankings. And northern Illinois last year
wouldn't have made it to top 15Utah is the best team and proved
in on the field. Again
Pollsters also had Texas at 15 and Boise State at 19 preseason and look where
they are now.I always go with the scoreboard.
Utah is 18-4 against lowly teams Utah state and byu the last 9 years. That is why we are moving towards other teams like Michigan(home and home) and
Fresno. Beating byu and usu is not seen as a good win(see nation
mocking Texas for losing to byu)Fresno is as prestigious as byu and
is seen as a better win.
The polls are a beauty contest, particulary the Coaches poll. BYU is getting
votes because they are coming off of two wins and a win over Texas, which has
some big name appeal. But head to head wins trump all, and, however painful it
may be to admit for Cougar fans, Utah is the best team in the state this year,
by virtue of their head to head wins over BYU and USU. Scoreboard is all that
And after Utah beats Stanford 32 to 27?With 6 picks and taking an
undefeated top 15 to the last play? Utah is proving to be much improved from
last year and its only a matter of time before we start winning these games.
And when that happens the quietness in Provo will be deafening. Utah's
talent is much better than byu's. and to think if we only played byu 12
times a year we would go bcs bowling every year. But I would rather
play with big boys.
For now it's the UofU, but if they continue to get beat in conference,
it's the Y. I can understand if the utes thump their chest if they're
sporting a competitive/respectable record in the PAC 12, but they aren't.
They're sub .500. BYU is their Super Bowl and they've earned those
bragging rights, but that's it. They won't win more than 6 games this
year. 6-6 at best, which is somewhat respectable, but nothing to yell and scream
about, like Krissy B does.
And how about we rank Duchesne ahead of Alta in high school football. After
all, they have more wins.
Yes utah definitely has the head to head bragging rights, that is inarguable.
@tuffgongWhat do you mean "for now it's the UofU"?
Utah won. Utah beat BYU and USU on the field. There's no need to
speculate about which team is better, no need to compare records or rankings.
All teams have played head to head...Utah is first, BYU second, USU third.
Period.It won't matter if Utah loses the rest of their games by
60 or if BYU wins out. Utah beat BYU on the field (in Provo, too). That means
Utah is the better team, end of story.It never ceases to amaze me
how BYU can lose a game and BYU fans can rationalize to themselves that they
were actually the better team. Do you take classes on how to make those jumps
Harmon: "Which team in the state is the best? Utes have bragging
rights"Yes, but it will only be a matter of time before we have
BYU fans posting that head-to-head competition doesn't actually matter.
That overall stats, yardage, etc. is all that matters. And final Sagarin
ratings as well.*Sigh*
Best teams don't always win. Some teams are just fortunate.If
Utah was the better team, they would have gone bowling, but didn't earn
it.This year will likely be the same.
So, last year Texas A&M beat Alabama which gave A&M bragging rights and
therefore was a better team. What an ignorant standpoint, however that is the
logic of the Ute fans. Reality is that because of Alabama's complete body
of work in 2012, it was ranked #1.That concept totally eludes the
Ute fans (except when the Utes were ranked in the top 10 twice). Last year Utah State was ranked higher in the final polls than BYU making USU
a better team overall last year. Of course the Utes were ranked the lowest of
the three in all final polls including the precious BCS final poll which, by the
way, includes SOS.Brave Sir Robin, BYU fans might jump in logic once
in a while, but your argument and most everything you purvey on BYU articles has
no logic at all. You must believe that Texas A&M was better team than
Alabama last year because your "logic" demands it. Say hi to the Wizard
in the Emerald City, everyone else will use the final polls as most credible
measure of a team's accomplishments in a season.
MacNasty beat me to it. I was going to use the Alabama-Texas A&M
example.Yes, right now Utah has the edge because they beat both USU
and BYU. However, by the end of the season, Utah may no longer be considered
the better team. Utah fans can ignore rankings all they want, but where a team
falls in the rankings at the end of a season matters a lot more than the results
of just one game.And as for "Rankings don't totally take
into account strength of schedule," some ranking systems do take SOS into
account. Sagarin does. And, if I'm not mistaken, so do the computer
formulae that are used in the BCS rankings. Oops! There goes that argument.
Rally the troops DNews rally the troops.
This year will not be good for any Utah football team. BYU will go to the same
old boring bowl game, USU may win the MWC but it is becoming more doubtful.
Ute's have a tough schedule and has to beat 3 more teams that are not the
state of Utah. There is no doubt that the Ute's are the best in
the state for football this year, but that is not saying much.
Let's pretend that that byu was undefeated instate.Would an
article like this ever be written?...homer
Harmon is correct; Utah owns bragging rights...for now.However, unless Utah fans can honestly say thatUNLV(2-10) was
BETTER than Utah(9-4) in 2007Colorado(3-10) was BETTER than Utah(8-5) in
2011andTexas A&M(11-2) was BETTER than undisputed, unanimous
national champion Alabama(13-1) in 2012then, quite obviously,
head-to-head is decidedly NOT the ONLY thing that matters.Except for
individual game bragging rights, final record and final ranking are much more
important in determining which team was more successful, and therefore, BETTER,
for the entire season.You seriously expect to argue that if Utah
tanks the rest of the season to finish 4-8 with no bowl, while BYU and USU go on
to finish 9-4 with bowl wins, that Utah would be considered better than BYU or
USU simply because Utah won a couple of early season head-to-head matchups.The truth is, the ONLY fans who will be claiming that are the crimson
glasses wearers.Guaranteed, there won't be another legitimate
poll/ranking system out there who won't have the Utes ranked SIGNIFICANTLY
below BYU and USU.
"Which team in the state is the best?"Obviously, the team
that finishes with the best record and the highest final ranking.
TrueBlueOrem, UTPlease keep up with your analysis if it makes
the next 3 years more bearable for you. For me, all of the angst from Dick and
Cougar "fans" is wildly entertaining. When you can't settle it to
your liking on the field, find some other way.Pathetic.
54-IQIt's laughable how Utah fans refer to rankings ONLY when
the rankings support their crimson-colored narrative.Utah fans beat
their chests about EVERY ranked team the Utes beat, including a barely ranked
team like unranked/#25 Pittsburgh. And, they beat their chests even more every
time the Utes are ranked.Yet, for some strange reason, rankings
become meaningless to Utah fans when the Utes aren't ranked or a ranked
lower than Utah fans think they should be.Such is the
crimson-colored view from under the bubble on the hill.Pathetic.
I almost never want to play the same team in a bowl game that we played during
the regular season, but I am so hoping that Utah is bowl eligible and selected
to play in the Kraft Fight Hunger bowl. Hill will be a completely
different QB by December and I'd love one more shot at revenge before the
hiatus. However, I do have to admit, the PAC looks stronger than
they have in many years (especially the North) and the probability of the Utes
being bowl eligible is slim. Oregon, Stanford, UCLA and Washington may all be
Top 25 teams. I'm betting we play Oregon St or Arizona in
@Down under"Utah gets up for one game and folds while BYU plays
out the season" WRONG. Utah got up for Oregon State and UCLA and was in
position to make one play to come out on top against far better teams that BYU
supposedly plays out the season with. Think 2011 when BYU was 3-3 in
six games against the better part of their schedule, including a 54-10 loss at
home to Utah as one of those games. Then they played out the season as you say
and won seven other games finishing at 10-3 for a ten win season. Sounds good
for BYU fans boasting superiority over Utah except those seven games were
against the weak teams UCF, San Jose State, Idaho State, Idaho, New Mexico
State, Hawaii, and Tulsa. Utah finished 8-5 with a PAC 12 schedule
that year and BYU fans still claimed they were better team after losing 54-10
against Utah because they beat seven patsies for a ten win year. YES SEVEN. Oh I
forgot you finished in the top 25 because of brand name and ESPN exposure.
Ya'll always add that up to your inductive stats.
And BYU plays so well outside of Utah right down under? Like that debacle
against Virginia who is as bad as Colorado is. Oh and that loss against San Jose
State in 2012 was epic. Although that power house helped you wind 10 games in
2011. Utah was the better team in 2011. Utah stunk last year as Whitt chose to
develop Wilson as a freshman and finished 5-7 instead of being 6-6 or maybe 7-5
with the steady but limited Hays. BYU was arguably better last year despite
losing to Utah when the Utes gave BYU three chances at a field goal and overtime
opportunity. But head to head doesn't matter. This year Utah is way better
than BYU right now. I know what you think. Utah is 0-2 in the PAC 12. Those were
tough losses but Utah lost two games that could have gone either way against
tough opponents. Utah beat BYU again in Provo but that goes unnoticed somehow.
But hey BYU is now for real because they beat a Keetonless Aggie team. GT,
Houston, Idaho and Nevada will have BYU fans thinking they are superior because
I used to root for BYU when they weren't playing Utah except for when
conference ramifications were in play. But all to many BYU fans polished me the
wrong way like many Ute fans do for Cougar fans. I got so tired of
the 1984 argument and the ridiculous Sagarin ratings. But the worst is when BYU
fans point to top 25 rankings. Look, when schedules were comparable under Kyle
and Bronco from 2005 to 2010, BYU had four top 25 finishes to Utah's three.
Still, Utah beat BYU then and now, won two BSC games and went undefeated twice.
What happened 30 years ago is old. Most these college players were 10 years away
from being born. BYU gets a leg up on top 25 rankings because of
brand name. It's tradition, honor and spirit. Hey good for you. But if you
are going to bad mouth the BCS, at least see how the sham of the ranking system
is no different. It's a popularity contest. ESPN, exposure, and fan base
aid in all that. My Utes belong to the BCS and I still despise it.Ya'll talk smack when you have lost 9 of 12.
BYU wouldn't win 4 games with Utah's schedule. They would beat Weber
State, a USU team minus Chuckie, Washington State and Colorado. That's
it.BYU will beat GT, Houston, Idaho, Nevada, and maybe Boise State
who is not what they were. That will give BYU 7 or 8 wins. This will fire up the
blue to claim they are better because Utah will struggle to get to 6 wins. That
would be respectable to me considering Jake Murphy and Kenneth Scott are now
gone. Dres Anderson is the only legit PAC 12 receiver left. But Dres, Murphy,
and Scott would all start for the majority of BSC teams across the country. How
good could Utah have been with Scott not breaking his leg the first game of the
Wow Dick. Just wow.
Why write articles like this that serves no good purpose but to incite
bitterness and contention between teams? Why is there ever an argument as to
who's the best this year when the Utes already beat us and the Aggies fair
and square? I'm a huge Cougar fan who hated losing to the Utes but we did.
Let's move on and wish all the state teams good luck the rest of their
seasons. Recognize that Utah is unquestionably the best in the state today and
give them their just due. It doesn't matter what the silly polls says.
They beat us and the Aggies on the field where it counts, not in the polls.
Stop stirring up unnecessary hate among the fans! Well this probably
won't be published but we'll see!Go Cougars! Go Utes! Go
The best team ALWAYS wins. That is how we determine the best team. The
scoreboard is the bottom line. It trumps everything else. Nothing else matters.
As a BYU fan I got to say that Utah is the best team because on the field
because they won. The issue I have with Utah is that they beat us and then have
a losing records, which make our loss even that much worse. The thing I
like with BYU is that they do see what the need improve on and address it.
Example would be the passing. The passing is improving and will keep improving.
Once BYU passing in improved team will need to plan for both a pass and run game
and that is harder to beat. For Utah their problem is they seem to start
off slow and then get thing rolling, last week being a expaction, but six picks!
Be glad that you only lost by seven. So far only one team in the state has
beaten a ranked team, and it is not Utah. Utah is embressing us be beating
BYU and then losing to all the teams it plays out side of the state.
Even the top teams in the nation will lose a game in an upset... that
doesn't mean the winner of that game is the better team. Utah pulled out
an upset in the game with BYU and records and rankings will prove it at the end
of the season.Let's face it.. Utah's season is over and
they've had their bowl game against BYU. The fans in red and white have
gone home and are all just following BYU now. I doubt anyone
outside of a Utah fan would consider them to be the best team in the state by
the end of the season. They are just a team that pulled off an upset in their
"The best team is the team that wins on the field."It would
be nice if evaluating teams were that simple. The Utes beating BYU in 2013 means
they were the better team on that day. It's so easy to poke holes in
statements by guys like Max. It almost feels like bullying, but imma do it
anyway.If Team A beats Team B, then Team B beats Team C, but Team C
beats Team A, which is the "best" team? Answers to questions like this
and the need for more information is at the core of the reason other factors
matter when evaluating overall team quality. And, yes, I know the U beat both of
them, and goodie for you, and the U may well turn out to be the best team in the
state. But you can't evaluate a team's quality based on one win. Or,
you can, but you can't then claim with a straight face you know jack about
sports.To use an extreme, unlikely example, if the Utes lose out and
BYU wins out, you apparently will keep chirping about your State Championship.
And nobody else in the sports world will care.
What does it matter. None of the three are that good. Take an all star team from
all three work them together through spring and fall and they still don't
win the PAC 12. not even close. Utah by their own account haven't beat
anyone since Alabama 5 years ago. Since then the best win every year is a
horrible BYU team yet you cry that your elite.BYU every year we here
the same thing this is our year yet you nd up no better than 8 and 5. This year
will be no different. Yet next year we will hear the same cry of greatness.
Never happen until you have a better o-line.USU you have one great
player he goes down and you do nothing. Let's quit the banter of who is the
best in the state because on the national scene none of them in matter.
We are the most awsome for sure because we have more bcs stars than anybody else
and that means we will win the rosebowl! Go Utes!
The best team in the state on Saturday will be Stanford! HAHA
What is with all the BYU fans saying the BYU game is Utah's Super Bowl.
I'm pretty sure that comment came out of BYU camp from a certain star
linebacker. Also, can't really call it an upset when Utah wins 4 straight
against BYU and dominates over the last 12 years. Just my humble opinion
though. Hope all three teams do well this week.Go Utes!!!
Cougar fan, but the Utes have the best football team in the state. They are
bigger, faster, and play with a lot of intensity. Intensity is something that
BYU seems to be lacking. BYU beat USU by more points than Utah did,
but it wasn't the same team that the Utes beat. USU without Keeton is not
as strong. When the Utah beat BYU it was obvious who was the better
team. Even Bronco took his headset off for the last three minutes of the game.
Both the BYU coaches and players gave up on that one. This year,
Utah is the better team.
OK, say what you want, and give Utah the opportunity to be "The Best Team in
Utah"; who really cares. After the season is over it still comes down to
total victories and a bowl game; and it will continue to be "about BYU"
by both Utah and Utah State.Utah needs to worry about the PAC12
experience and less about beathing Utah; Utah State is, and will continue to
be, a non-entity when it comes to the other two schools. BYU needs to step up
their wins on a tougher schedule and this does't include Utah. They really
don't ever need to include them in the future because a loss to Utah is not
good; a win against Utah, which fills out the bottom of the PAC12, is also
doing little to enhance the BYU schedule--so they really don't need to play
them. Play Utah State, however, for a win and only play in Provo--no need to go
to Logan any longer.
The better team rarely wins the game. For example, BYU has been the best team
in the State the last decade and yet they have rarely beat Utah. Makes sense.
I'm amazed that byu fans even try to muster up any kind of argument. You
have lost four straight games to the Utes. There is no doubt who the top dog is
in the state when it comes to head to head games and recruiting. The current
and future of football in the state is the UTES!!
I disagree with Mildred T. Bass. The best team is obviously the PAC 10.2 BCS
conference team loaded with 7 star recruits. Besides they were the first in the
whole universe to win their bowl game in each of the last 4 years.
Utah fans want to think they are on top, and let them THINK that, becasue that
is all they have. BYU will always be the team that is talked about.
Utah beat BYU and surely would have beat Virgina.When you beat someone at their
house and 9 out of 12 times over the last 12 years you are the better team.Utah
just happens to be in maybe the toughest conference in the nation.I'm sure
when they play again in 2016 Utah will win again.
SlopJ30Obviously we are talking about who is better on a particular
day. I thought that went without saying. Transitivity does not always work in
sports, as you pointed out, but that isn't what we are talking about here.
We are talking about what team is the best in Utah and in this case it is really
simple: Utah beat both BYU and Utah State. End of argument. The days they played
are our data points and there is no reason to pursue it further. To try to argue
that (as some apparently are) BYU is really better because they more badly beat
a common opponent would be a decent argument ONLY if BYU and Utah had not
played. But they have played. Again, end of argument.
I guess we should just forget about a national championship game since the score
does not really matter. Let's just go back to 1984 and vote the best team
From Y mount, Utah is the best team in the state no doubt. They have beaten us
4 years in row. But can the Utes stop complaining how tough your
schedule is and start winning games. Did you all go to the pac 12 expecting to
play teams from the MWC? You all wanna play with the big dogs so play with the
big dogs and cut the complains and start winning. When Texas came
into town you all thought they were going to run all over BYU. But then when we
killed them, you all are saying that they weren't a good team. At the end
of the day BYU has beaten a ranked team this season.I'm love my
cougs but I support the Utes when they're not playing BYU. So to my Utes
friends, much is given much is required. If you all are sick of playing top
teams, humble yourselves and join the MWC!
There is best team and best program. Currently, Utah has the best program based
on results of the last decade, and the head to head wins this year add to that.
It is not leaps and bounds better than BYU's program, but 2 undefeated
seasons with BCS bowl wins are significant accomplishments.Best team
is a moment in time phrase. Currently, Utah is the best team of the three.
Even a loss to Stanford and a BYU win over GT will not change that in my
opinion. However, by the end of the year, after the post season, our opinions
may change regarding which team is the best at that time.There is no
question Utah was better than my Cougs this last Holy War. Even with BYU
scrambling at the end, one team looked poised and one team didn't.
However, losses take a toll on a team and can turn expected victories into more
losses. I don't care what conference you are in, but an 11-2 BYU team is
better than an 7-6 Utah team. Conference SOS can only make up for 1-2 losses.
There is no better cheerleader for BYU than Harmon.
Now Ute fans know how I feel when I read blantantly pro-Utah articles. Yawn. I
so wish Utah played my Huskies this year
Tama,We don't complain about our schedule. We try to answer the
detractors that say that Utah gets up for byu then lets down the rest of the
year...as futile as it is. The only people not happy with the Utes in the PAC 12
are the "fans" in happy valley.The local media is probably
the best reason that the Utes should never, ever play byu.Go PAC 12
BYU fan here.It's clear BYU is now thoroughly spooked when they
play Utah. It's now mental. Therefore, and the fact their coaching is a
notch above ours, makes the Utes better.Deal with it guys...
This article shows why the BYU-Utah game has no more reason to actually play.
Harmon can argue for the best team without playing.
JCC75,I don't get you're comment. That would be like me,
here in Utah, complaining about the pro huskie media in Seattle...Or does the
Seattle media write blantantly pro-Utah articles?
...and according to joe bloe's blog, "football fanatic",
(unbelievable but an outside observer), Utah is ranked 29th, Utah State 30th and
BYU 55th. Leave it to Dick to think that Football should be played
in the minds of BYU fans and not on the field. Utah loses to 11th and 28th
ranked teams in the country, but beats BYU who has lost to the 90th and 38th
ranked teams in the country. Hmmmm... a real mental hurdle to overcome to
determine who the better team is. ...where was the UTah BYU game
played this year?
I'm surprised the BYU Animation Department hasn't come up with a film
which has BYU beating Utah the last four years. It could be a top seller!
Nothing like a cartoon to make memories of on-field-results melt away!!
I dont see how there is any debate here? If you have the three fastest kids in
the school race- Kid A, Kid B, and Kid C. A beats everyone, B beats C, and C
loses to everyone. That would make A the fastest kid in school, B the second
fastest, and C the slowest. Pretty cut and dry. I know that there is stats and
beating people by a larger amount, but the fact of the matter is, If I beat you,
I am better. No questions asked. BYU beats Utah State and everyone starts making
crazy claims that they are better than Utah even though they got rocked. Lets
put our pride aside, look at the head to head games and realize, Utah is the
Dick, you nailed it. Sensationalist writing trying to stir the hearts of the
fans here in the state of Utah and abroad. At the end of the day, the team that
wins is the best team, even if it is for a day. However, one cannot dispute
that Utah has owned BYU for the past 4 years straight, thus you cannot say that
Utah was the best team for the day 4 years running. No denying.Go
@TrueBlueThe difference, UNLV and Colorado played the same schedule
as Utah, but we a significant difference in wins, plus 7 and plus 5. Advantage
Utah.Alabama and A&M play in the same league, similar schedule.
Advantage Bama plus one.The concept of built in wins over Weber
State (1-11), Idaho (1-11), New Mexico State (1-11), and Hawaii (3-9) is the
difference between 8-5 and 5-7. For some reason Cougar Nation
thinks Utah can't compete with such teams even though facts prove them
wrong:* Utah finished 33-6 in the MWC (behind TCU 33-3)*
Since then Utah is 8-1 vs such teams only loss was at AP #18 Keeton led Utah
State in OTFor some reason Cougar Nation thinks they can compete in
a real conference even though evidence suggests no:* Bronco has a
losing record vs BCS teams* TCU, a team BYU can't stay within 2 TDs,
has 9 losses after finishing with 4 loses in the MWC* Utah, a team BYU
can't beat, is 7-13 in the PAC-12
Dick Harmon post "SuperBowl" denial. Absolutely pathetic.Which team in state is the best?"Well, the Utes have bragging
rights...! But even still...!" How desperate can you get?It's not arguable, Dick. The Utes beat YbU and the Aggies. The Cougies
beat a Chuckie-less Aggies squad, no comparison. Insanely desperate "sports
journalism." Unranked GT is visiting LES, while the Utes host #5 Stanford.
Admit it, more exciting football is being played in RES than in happy valley
these days, and it hurts.Especially when your squad is 0-4, and
BYU is clearly the best team in state, that's why they beat Utah this year!
Duh! Oh wait, well the year before that then... you dont say? Well the year
before that?...oh no 54-10, certainly the year before that then!... Oh not that
year either? 5 years ago?... Thats right BYU won in OT 5 years ago, see BYU is
the best team in the state!
Thing is, Utah doesnt care about being the best in state. Thats BYU's
goal, BYUs superbowl according to their own players. Utah wants to be the Best
in the Pac-12. Utah isn't there yet, may never be, but being the best in
state is a given these days. Go Utes!
I'm really not concerned about what BYU does the rest of the season.
I'm mostly concerned with our offense getting back on track after too many
mistakes against UCLA and the defense continuing to improve. If we can do that,
I see possible wins over USC, Arizona, Washington State and Colorado. Combined
with the wins we already have, that would get is to a bowl game and be an
improvement in conference play. That is what I'm hoping to see this
season.As far as the rankings go, many of those polls are based on
BYU's win over then 15th ranked Texas. We all know now they were overrated
and never should have been number 15 in the country. If they were ranked then
where they are now, the impact to BYU's ranking wouldn't be nearly as
Ekute,Ha, no, the Seattle media doesn't care anything about Utah. I
have 3 alma maters, one of them being BYU. I read articles pertaining to BYU,
which are usually found in the Utah media, so therefore, I understand Utes'
irritation in reading articles like these, as I feel the same when I read
articles back in Utah that are blatantly pro-Utah. Once again, yawn
Obviously, when determining the best team in Utah, the scoreboard is the last
determining factor. What matters most is who had the most easy wins. Why
play good teams to test yourself when you can beat up on bad teams. Scoreboard never resolves anything, unless it determines who can beat bad
teams. Then it matters.
"the Seattle media doesn't care anything about Utah"JCC75:Fail! Bill Withers of the Seattle Times writes
an excellent blog, "Pac-12 Confidential". While the four northwest
schools get significant coverage, Utah is mentioned as frequently as the rest of
the schools in the conference, which is the point of the blog.You'd know that if you spent less time following Harmon's blue &
Keep trying Harmon. Your digging deep for this one.
"Obviously we are talking about who is better on a particular day."No, what everyone seems to be talking about is the more subjective
evaluation of which Utah-based team is the "best" overall this year. If
we're only talking about some imaginary State Championship trophy, then
congrats, the Utes get it.I don't even necessarily believe BYU
is "better" than Utah, but I think it's close. Of course BYU would
struggle to win 8+ games playing a full PAC-10.2 schedule, though their own
schedule is pretty solid compared with the historical WAC/MWC standards of both
teams.What I can't abide in these forums is simple-minded,
logic-free assertions such as "We beat you therefore we are a better team so
there." Hey, the point is to win each game, and the Utes beat BYU. I hated
it, but it happened. But that's just one (admittedly important)criterion to
consider if we're going to engage in a debate about the "best"
team. So-and-so earlier wrote something like "Utah could lose by 60 in every
remaining game and BYU could win out" and he would still insist Utah is a
"better" team. Absurd.
"Another poll, which seems a little out of whack — check that, a lot
out of whack — is Lee Burdorf’s Rankings. Burdorf, a handicapper of
games, is a veteran sportscaster and play-by-play man for college football. He
has BYU ranked No. 10, USU 28 and Utah 33. Unbelievable or not, it is an
outsider's opinion." -- Dick Harmon----------------Apparently not whack enough to make Dick Harmon's analysis.
That's like using Wiki as a source in a "research" report. But hey, if it helps soothe the pain of going 0-4 in your Super Bowl...
go with it!I for one have no problem BYU being ranked higher in
irrelevant pools as long as we have SCOREBOARD.
The fact is the best teams do not always win.All ute fans have is
their team won and the are in PAC 10.2.What real evidence do you
have that you are any better this year?statistically U is the same
as BYU, and were lucky to get away with a win while BYU was still struggling
with its offense.BYU defense is obviously and clearly better than
many PAC teams including UCLA and Oregon State. An their Offensive is
improving.IF BYU had been in PAC 3 years they be competing with top
teams right now with the recruits they could've got.While the
utes are still waiting and hoping.BYU's defense knocked keeton
out of football, utes defense couldn't do that. 6 picks against UCLA,
the utes were lucky to still even be in the game at home.Utes
wouldn't be posting on BYU articles if they didn't have such low self
esteem, and felt the need to knock down others to make themselves think they
are better.The fact is BYU and Utah are just above average teams at
best with little difference, and USU an average team with an above average QB.
BYU is the best team in the state.Just ask them.
The only thing a controversial article like this does is inflame the biases of
the fans of each in-state college, and nothing more. The most
objective and nationally recognized ranking system in the country is the Sagarin
Ratings... which leave out all biases. It takes into account more criteria than
most fans even know exist. And when all the different measurable criteria are
quantified, a current ranking is released each week, since teams get better or
worse each week as the season progresses. This totally inclusive
system currently has BYU ranked 29th in the nation (best in the state) and Utah
at 34th (5 spots behind BYU), and USU still further back. So based
on these totally objectified and non-partial criteria, BYU would indeed beat
both Utah and USU if re-mataches were to take place today. Any other conclusions
are based on now fading history and always biased opinion... as most previous
comments obvious indicate and as most additional commments will continue doing.
Best team in the state of Utah? Please. The competition in this state is a
joke. Utah is one of the best teams in the nation, and certainly one of the
best teams in the West. Mark my words when Utah shocks Stanford
This article could have been written for the Onion. Forget head-to-head results
on the field, Dick Harmon will decide the in-state rankings!
Look at the total points scored, and allowed when Utah ST, Utah, and BYU played
each other this year.The clear best is BYU.Nuff said
@ Go Red:Sigh all you want... even until your face turns red (sorry,
it obviously already is), but that doesn't change the fact that statistics
and rating systems actually count. That's why they are kept and made by
national sport experts. If those statistics and ratings had shown
Utah to currently be wonderful, you would've phraised the system up and
down. But because they don't currently indicate as much, you are trying to
totally discount them... which makes anything else you have to say hard to take
seriously. Simple fact... in 3 of Utah's latest wins against
BYU, the Cougars indeed did have better offensive statistics... like it or not.
Another simple and undisputable fact... the current Sagarin ratings do
have BYU 5 spots better than Utah... like it or not. Both indicate
that indeed, the better teams don't always win. That's why there are
upsets and why they play the game... because anything can happen on any
particular day, depending on multiple variables. The same game played a day
later might have completely different results. Like or not,
that's just the way it is in the real world of sports.
4 years in a row and the agony and desperation is hilarious.Please
keep it coming.
Stupid article imo, Utah is obviously the best of the three.I would
say BYU as a whole is better than USU. I think the Y would've lost if
Chuckie didn't get hurt. But this is football and injuries happen, that is
why depth is important.Refs gifted BYU 2 penalties to give them
their only TD drive in the game, without that its 20-6.Also playing
the first game against USU comes into effect, you always get better as the
season progresses.you think its bad now cougars, 4-0, 9 of 12? Wait
2 years and see our PAC-12 depth and recruiting. If you stay independent get
used to it.As a Ute fan I really do hope the Big 12 invites you,
despite what most of you cougar fans like to say you want to be in an elite
conference. And it would make this rivalry far more entertaining than it already
is. Independence is killing you, the MWC is probably a better schedule at this
point. Especially if you can schedule Texas/Wisc/Notre Dame on your OOC games I
think its a better slate.
In 1995, 1996 & 1997 Michigan went 3-0 vs Ohio State. I remember because my
friend is a huge Ohio State Fan. It drove him nuts!The final AP
rankings for those years were as follows:Ohio State #6, Michigan
#17Ohio State #2, Michigan #20Ohio State #12, Michigan URClearly Michigan was the better team in the rivalry game those three years,
but even my brother who graduated from Michigan and is a big fan never mentioned
that he thought Michigan was the better team at the end of the season.
@worfQuick grab your calculator and check your numbers before you
post that...oh too late.
Only a matter of time until an article like this was coming from Harmon. BYU
fans can keep talking about how they are the "best team." Utah just
But there is some posturing that BYU defeated the Aggies by a bigger margin on
the road and was dominant, albeit USU played three quarters without star
quarterback Chuckie Keeton.----Keaton was 4 for 10 with
a pick six when he went down. He's the best QB in the state but, I'm
not sure USU wins even if he plays three more quarters.That said,
Utah won both games head to head so the debate on the best team in the state is
closed. It's too bad Utah is not as excited to face their Pac 12 slate as
they are BYU though. They'd win some more games.
worf suggests "Look at the total points scored, and allowed when Utah ST,
Utah, and BYU played each other this year."Nice idea, except
there are 4 teams involved:Utah State (+Keeton), Utah, BYU, and Utah State
SoonerUteSalt Lake City, UTI'm surprised the BYU
Animation Department hasn't come up with a film which has BYU beating Utah
the last four years. It could be a top seller! Nothing like a cartoon to make
memories of on-field-results melt away!!---Kind of like
BYU and Sam Bradford right? :)
Well...they just need to get rid of all of the scoreboards and put up sagarin
pac12ute4lifeBeverly Hills, CABest team in the state of
Utah? Please. The competition in this state is a joke. Utah is one of the best
teams in the nation, and certainly one of the best teams in the West. Mark my words when Utah shocks Stanford this weekend.---Don't bite, this is a fan of another school trying to make the Ute fans
Some "fans" talk the talk...Teams walk the walk on the field.
Imagine Bronco addressing the crowd before the game with Utah: "Folks, at
the end of this game, we're going to be behind on the scoreboard, but at
the end of the season we're going to have some good statistics and a better
Sagarin rating. Show of hands -- who is cool with that?"In
Tators' world, every Cougar fan in the stadium would raise their hand.
Back on this planet, the coach would be booed for that attitude.
"Sagarin Ratings""Look at the total points scored, and allowed
when Utah ST, Utah, and BYU played each other""multiple
variables""The same game played a day later might have completely
different results."It's so entertaining to see coug fans
engage in rank speculation, meaningless number crunching and outright delusion
as a balm for the sting of the ultimate sports measuring stick--the scoreboard.
But let's give 'em credit for perfecting the technique;
the Utes have given them the chance to do it every year. And next season, they
can pursue their "Quest" without flinching when they see red.
Uteswinning the battle vs BYUlosing the war the rest of the year.5-7 looking pretty good right about now
@ pac12ute4life:Your comment is so far from reality that I'm
not sure if you are serious are just trying to be sarcastic. Let's pretend
you meant it.If the competition in this state is such a joke, why is
Kyle and all Ute fans in attentance so obviously relieved and excited to pull
out extremely close wins against USU and BYU... and almost always by only single
digits in games that go to the wire?If you actually were serious
when saying that Utah is one of the best teams in the nation (something totally
missed by all national ratings and ranking services and football experts), then
you have immediately lost all credibility. Anything else you say won't be
taken seriously by anyone. You should consider revising your statement.You realize that by saying "Mark my words" that you are sounding a lot
like a another Utah pundit that literally no one takes seriously. Not great
company to have put yourself in.
Let's come back with this topic at the end of the season after all 12 games
have played out for each team. There is no argument right now except that BYU
and Utah are both 3-2 with Utah winning the head-to-head. Keep in mind, though,
that Utah has a much harder schedule going forward than BYU so even if Utah goes
6-6 and BYU goes 7-5 I would give the nod to Utah. But let's first see how
the rest of the season goes.
Wow talk about some bruised egos on both the red and the blue side of the state.
Thank goodness my self worth isn't based on whether my team wins. This is
really pathetic. Me thinks a few people should try to get a life. lol
This is always a lame argument. For BYU, you have to prove it on the field
otherwise it's just words and conjecture. For Utah, you have to stop
bellyflopping after the BYU game and start showing that you belong with PAC12
because there are a lot of doubters at this point. For USU, you need to go into
MWC play and be successful and prove you're a good team with or without
star players. BYU was without it's star receiver and one of their star
linebackers for multiple games this year...no excuses, you got rung up by BYU,
period. All three of these teams have nothing to brag about at this point.
Winning is what matters, and the hardware that comes with it, and none of these
teams has shown they're capable of bringing home anything more than tier 3
At least Dick Harmon can man up and call it like it is.
I can see it now. Next season, Harmon will have convinced coug fans
that the playoff committee will take into account Sagarin ratings, total offense
and score differentials--and will completely ignore the scoreboard and strength
of schedule--thus putting BYU into the playoffs. And when BYU loses that first
game the committee will look at the same things and put them in the NC game.Might as well print up the blue 2014 "We're No. 1" t-shirts
Jazzsmack "BYU's defense knocked keeton out of football,
utes defense couldn't do that."First off, from what I saw,
Chuckie jumped over a defender and landed wrong on his knee. Nobody hit him from
what I remember. Plus, even if someone did hit him, you're bragging about a
BYU player hurting another one taking him out for the remainder of the game and
season? Wow, that's something to be proud of!! I don't
like to see anyone get hurt, no matter what team they play for. And that most
certainly includes BYU. Give it time, if Hill keeps running as much as he does,
his luck will eventually run out! For his sake, hopefully not.
Losing to Utah ruined the season for the Y. No matter what happens the rest of
the year - the Utah loss makes 2013 a dud.
I reed the commants for the langwich arts trifecta: to brusch up on my grammer,
syntacks, and spellin. Im a better fan of all Utahs teems becuz of
Beating really bad teams is the only true measure of success. Head to head
competition and scoreboard is the least accurate measure of success. Nobody
should have to play good competition.
BYU fans keep saying "was UNLV better than Utah in 2007? What about aTm vs
Bama last year?"Ill explain this to you guys one time....those
are UPSETS. They happen all the time in CFB, that is what makes the sport so
great. THE KICKER IS...It STOPS being an upset when it happens in back to back
years, let alone four years straight, and 9 out of 12.. You guys realize how
ridiculous you sound saying that you have been upset by the same team four years
in a row??? and pointing to the biggest flaw in all of college sports as the
evidence?Utah dropped several spots for losing to UCLA. Should they
have? Not a chance, but thus is the nature (and the flaw) of the polling system.
You could argue that if a team ranked in the 30-50 range gives a top 10 team all
they can handle for 60 minutes, they should go up in the polls. If you 5 teams
in the top 10 in consecutive weeks, and lose to them all, you wont even be
ranked in the top 50. Does that make sense? Not really.
Football is played on the field only. Utah won the state. Case closed.
Everyone seems to have missed the most important point in the article. Jason
Whittingham noted that the Utes need to "have the mindset that we're
(Utes) not playing with the little kids anymore." So . . . time
to change our "diapers" for "big boy" pants.
Uteology"The difference, UNLV and Colorado played the same
schedule as Utah, but we a significant difference in wins, plus 7 and plus
5."You're grasping at straws to argue a fallacy.In 2012, Iowa(4-8, #39 SOS) beat No Illinois(12-2, #121 SOS) 18-17. The two
teams only played one other common opponent, yet No. Illinois finished #23/#23
in the final AP and Coaches polls, while Iowa was unranked.If Iowa
played a B1G schedule, while No. Illinois played a mid-major schedule, why did
No. Illinois finish significantly higher in the rankings than Iowa if the
Huskies LOST to the Hawkeyes head-to-head?Sagarin ranked No.
Illinois #39 and Iowa #70.Quite obviously, despite the desperate
attempts by Utah fans to claim supremacy based on one game, the rest of the
college football world seems to understand that seasons are judged in their
entirety, not on one head-to-head game.
Uteology"Bronco has a losing record vs BCS teams"Bronco is 14-14 (50%) and versus BCS teams.Kyle is only marginally
better at 20-18 (53%).Yet, Bronco(4) has TWICE as many AP Top
Finishes as Kyle(2).
patriot"Losing to Utah ruined the season for the Y. No matter
what happens the rest of the year - the Utah loss makes 2013 a dud."Only in your dreams.A blowout win over a storied program
like Texas more than makes up for a narrow loss to the Utes.
JohnInSLCSilly Ute; Sagarin ratings are based on record versus
SOS.And yes, overall record will trump individual game head-to-head
results every time.Our little friends on the hill seem to have
forgotten the results of their own conference.Stanford beat Oregon
17-14, yet #2/#2 Oregon finished higher in the polls than #7/#6 Stanford.If Stanford, by virtue of their head-to-head win was better than Oregon,
as Utah fans lamely assert, then why was Oregon ranked ahead of Stanford. Are
you seriously going to argue that the #7/#6 ranked team was better than the
#2/#2 ranked team?And if so, why should we ever give any credence to
jbohnDespite your vain attempt to claim otherwise, seasons are
judged independently. It doesn't matter that Utah has beaten Utah State 10
of the last 11, Utah State was better last year.14 of the last 17
games in the BYU-Utah series have been decided by a touchdown or less in the
closing minutes or in overtime. Anybody trying claim "domination" with
such feeble evidence is simply blowing smoke, especially when the team losing
the head-to-head has often finished with a better record and higher ranking.
A quote from a ute fan following the Cougs victory over Utah State...
"Winning a game does not mean that you have the better team"... As I
said then and I will say now...TRUER WORDS WERE NEVER SPOKEN BY A UTE FAN.It's true, utah beat the Cougs in September by one touch down using
PAC12 refs for the third consecutive year (the same PAC12 refs incidently, that
were chastised by the NCAA for messing up the end of the ASU - Wisconsin game
the previous week)... It's true the utes won despite the fact
that a BYU kick off return for a touchdown was called back... And it's true
the utes won despite the fact that an obvious pass interference occured on the
last play of the game that should have given the Cougs one more shot at the end
zone from about 25 yards out...It was a one TD victory and it
happened on a night that one of our best ILB couldn't play and our QB was
starting his 6th game of his college career...Wish we could play
each other again this year... I am confident the results would be quite
@kenI'm sorry but your argument makes no sense... If I read it
correctly you are saying that a team with a tougher schedule is inherently
better than teams with a less difficult schedule... that logic couldn't
possibly be more misguided...That is like saying that Kentucky (who
is 1-4 and plays in a league that has 7 teams in the top 25 and 5 teams in the
top 10) are better than Oregon, Stanford or Washington because they only have 4
teams in the top 25 in their conference...Also, if rank was to be so
dependent on strength of schedule as you suggest, then Ohio State with the
country's 67th toughest schedule amongst FBS teams wouldn't be rated
#4, Clemson with the 55th most difficult schedule wouldn't be rated #3, and
Oregon with the the country's 58th toughest schedule wouldn't be rated
#2...And what's more, utah and Washington State wouldn't
be running away from BYU in preseason match ups over the next couple of years.
poyman,There's nothing worse than a sore loser.I
was raised, taught and coached different.
Just about every year the Jazz beat the Miami Heat in basketball. Does that mean
the Jazz are better than the Heat? No. Sometimes the better team loses. Sometime
the underdog gets the last bounce, the last shot, or the right call. And
sometimes this happens many times in a row. If the Utes go 4-9 and BYU finishes
10-3 guess what?...BYU is probably the better team. Strength of schedule means
nothing. It all comes down to who is playing the best at the time they play. BYU
year after year starts slow and finishes strong. I'd bet anything that if
Utah dared play BYU in November it would finish a blowout in BYU's favor
barring any key injuries.
ekuteSome day the Utes may have a winning season in the PAC; they
might even win the South, play in a bowl game, and finish in the Top 25.When that day comes, are Utah fans really going to admit, that BYU was
BETTER than Utah, simply because the Cougars won the head-to-head, even though
BYU finished unranked, with a worse record?Or will U be "sore
losers", unwilling to admit that BYU was "better", even though BYU
won the head-to-head?The truth is, if the tables were reversed, Utah
fans would be laughing at their own arguments.
"patriotCedar Hills, UTLosing to Utah ruined the
season for the Y. No matter what happens the rest of the year - the Utah loss
makes 2013 a dud."Doubtful, the dud probably set in when BYU
lost to a Virginia team who has yet to beat anyone else. The win
over Texas even if Texas is bigger than any over Utah has probably ever been.
Texas is the brand in college football and as an Independent that win was far
bigger for BYU than winning the Holy War would have been even if Utah is better
than Texas.That's no knock on Utah, I think Wilson's a
good QB and they've won four straight. But, in the scheme of things BYU
and Utah are no longer in the same conference and there are bigger games for
@LonestarRunner,Ok, br0. If you and your BYU buddies want to keep
throwing the top 25 finishes out as a good thing be my guest. If you rather have
4 ranked finishes in the 17-25 range rather than 2 undefeated seasons and top 5
finishes(And whoever doesn't think the '8 Utes team deserved to be in
the NCG is crazy). I guess that speaks pretty loudly about what Y fans
expectations.Just remember that you only finished one of those
seasons ranked beating Utah, but never EVER beat Utah when they were ranked the
last decade, or TCU for that matter.Good day, sir.
*Sigh* Any sports fan familiar with the state of Utah knew this was coming...
As soon as BYU defeated a Keeton-less USU the BYU shills would spin-up the old
hype machine...The predictability makes it amusing, Utah has beaten
BYU 4 straight years, 9 of the last 12 years, but that is just because BYU has
been "unlucky." Really? Don't you feel embarrassed to even start
that line of argument?The real question is if BYU had Utah's
schedule this year or last year would they have more wins than the Utes? There
is not a shred of evidence to back-up that view, but many BYU fans seem to
believe that as if it was an article of faith.If BYU starts beating
some ranked team (something Utah has struggled with in recent years) then start
talking. Until then BYU fans (and media shills) will just have to face the
@ekuteYou might think that you were, but to me you arethe ute fan
that Max described... And he was dead on accurate.
@poyman ***"Wish we could play each other again this year... I am confident
the results would be quite different."***Really? You do realize
that Ute fans have to listen to "confident" BYU fans say that stuff
every year right?After 2010 Bronco said "the best team
didn't win." The next year Utah beats BYU 54-10 in Provo...In 2012 BYU caught the Ute w/out their starting QB, TB, and both Safeties...
Still the Cougars lost.After that loss in 2012 Van Noy and Hoffman
decide to return for their senior year partly (their words, not mine) to beat
Utah... Now after the 2013 loss (in Provo) they will leave school 0-4 vs. the
Utes, but they would beat the Utes if they got another chance.BYU is
always going to win the next game (‘cause they are really determined now)
and every game thereafter, right? If 4 in a row, 9 of 12
doesn't prove anything, can you at least tell us what would be proof to
you? I am not sure than facts even matter to BYU fans now days, some of them
seem to have a complete disconnect from reality.
"Sagarin ratings are based on record versus SOS."TMachine:And how would you know, exactly? Obviously, my point went
over your head. Sagarin refuses to reveal his formula (which is
probably why the BCS was in love with it). The playoff committee's charge
is to be transparent and consider all factors, including head-to-head results,
and not be stuck with the secret formulas, point differentials, total offense
stats and overall won-loss records that indy y fans are suddenly in love with.
@tdlawton...What position does Keeton play on the Defensive side of
the ball? That's what I thought.What would be proof to me???
utah beating the Cougs without neutral Refs that aren't from the PAC12...
That would help alot... (particularly on stuff like kick off returns, or pass
interference calls, etc).Winning in November would also help a bunch
as well...And probably winning by more than a touchdown would be
beneficial...If you can pull those things off then I'll be a
@johninslc, So BYU is suddenly in love with overall records??? Yes,
I suppose that's right, but I don't think it's suddenly...
We've been in love with that from the beginning... And what has to be
disappoingting to you is that all the polls (AP, Coaches, BCS, and Sagarin)
share that attraction as well...@tdlawtonWhat I meant to
say in my previous post that didn't come across very clearly was that using
"neutral refs" or refs that aren't from the PAC12 (like we have the
last 3 years) would also help convince me that utah is the better team... (in
addition to the other things that I stated).
@poyman:Sorry. Your neutral ref excuse is not based on fact. The
fact of the matter is, the refs used in the Holy War game, in LES, this year,
were NOT from the PAC 12, but were actually from the Big XII.A
little more research prior to complaining will go a long way.Go
@poyman,To add to Jake above, the refs helped you more than anything
in that game. Not sure why you're using them as en excuse. The ball
wasn't tipped at the line of scrimage so that PI call should have been
enforced, then the stupid taunting call on Rowe when that was happening all
game. Hague was doing a lot of it before/after he got wrecked by York.And there was no PI call on the last play of the game because the BYU receiver
CLEAR AS DAY, grabbed the Ute DB and pulled him to the ground trying to draw a
PI call to get another un-timed down. Not to mention it wasn't even
catch-able as your QB couldn't hit the broad side of a barn if his life
depended on it.
Wow - I've learned so much from reading the comments. Such new, creative,
stimulating and groundbreaking analysis. Why haven't these arguments been
made before? Seriously though, coming back into these comment boards is like
your little sister sticking in the most annoying CD for the gazillionth time.Guess what Ute fans - WE GET IT that you believe head-to-head matchups
solve the "who's better" question. Guess what Cougar
fans - WE GET IT that you believe an entire season of games and the final polls
answer the same question.Who is right? IMPOSSIBLE to prove, because
BOTH ARE OPINIONS. All recent games come down to the last play of the game.
Look at matchups against common opponents over the last couple of years. Pretty
even.Face it - neither team is great and both are probably above
average. It's like everyone is popping a vein to prove who is 35th best in
the country versus No. 36.
what the byu vs utah game shows is not what team is the better overall team, but
what team was the better team on that given day. Utah was better on that given
day, but that does not mean that they are the overall better team. the same
thing can be said for byu vs utah state
If we are talking about the big 2 and the aggies then it's obviously Utah.
They got past USU and they beat pretty convincingly BYU. I'm not a Utah
fan but there should be no dispute that of them, BYU, and USU that Utah is the
I seriously don't ever remember thinking that Utah was even remotely in
trouble vs BYU. BYU was not moving the ball consistently at all and their
running game was shut down aside from one or two Hill scrambles. Did every
delusional poster still claiming that the Y is better not eyeball that game?
Basketball-Championships- Utah (however since many BYU fans will
argue that it was so long ago I'm willing to take this out)tournament
appearances- tie- (tiebreaker= record)- Utahwhat have you done for me
lately?- BYU - (in fact I'll give two to BYU since it has been so
lopsided)Professional impact- Utahtie- 2-2 (tiebreaker goes to
the all time head to head)- UTAHFootball-Championships -
BYUAll time record- Utah What have you done for me lately? - tie-
too hard to make judgment call so tiebreaker goes to better record in bowl games
of last decade- Utah (last decade Utes have been undefeated in bowl games and
have had better bowl games- sugar, fiesta vs. poinsettia, las vegas and have
also had 2 undefeated seasons)Professional Impact- BYU (Steve Young gives
BYU the edge but Utah has put more players into the NFL than BYU and has more
notable players currently playing)2-2 tiebreaker goes to the all
time head to head - UTAHBasketball= UTAH Football= UTAH
I am 100% positive that the DesNews sports editors just wanted to see how many
comments they could brew up by questioning who is truly the best team in the
state. I think Utah has to be considered the best team in the state this year
(2-0 against the other two doesn't lie), but they just wanted some reader
comments, apparently. I am a Utah State fan, fyi, and I wish we hadn't lost
Chuckie for that BYU game, but oh well!
Utah is the only national brand - it is superior both academically and
athletically to BYU, and it isn't even close. Why is Utah State even
mentioned here? Why not also include Weber and SUU? The fact is
Utah has owned the state for the past 10 years. Utah has built a national
brand. The other schools are just playing average football in a mediocre state.
Onward and Upward, to the Rose Bowl!
samarai jake... once again you are inaccurate and I believe you are not being
truthful because you don't think that people will look it up... The same
exact Officials who were reprimanded wor their horrible management of the
Wisconsin - Arizona State game the previous week were the same Officials that
worked the BYU - utah game... Read the Daily Herald Article on the subject from
the Daily Herald by Jared Lloyd...These threads are much better when
commenters actually tell the truth...@965... When you want to talk
what actually happened and what was on camera for the world to see (not just the
65k people at the game)... then come on back and talk... I guarantee you the
tape of the last play in the game would have given BYU another shot at the end
zone based on any objective observation...
pacuteUtah, a national brand? LOL!The Utes are nothing
more than a commuter school that is barely recognized as a member of the PAC by
the other members.
@poyman:You are correct. My comment was intended for an earlier
post claiming the "PAC-12 refs" gave us the game versus Utah State.
That was the game officiated by the Big XII crew.That being said,
you need to realize that the Utes were penalized more in the game than YbU, so
that argument is pointless.The bottom line is that both teams had
questionable calls go both for and against them. That's been the nature of
sports from the beginning. It all shakes out in the end. Which is why the Utes
are 4-0, and counting!Go Utes!
@True blue..."So, last year Texas A&M beat Alabama which gave A&M
bragging rights and therefore was a better team. What an ignorant standpoint,
however that is the logic of the Ute fans. Reality is that because of
Alabama's complete body of work in 2012, it was ranked #1."It's laughable the cougie fan's trying to use this argument. Yes
cougie fan's a one off win here and there by a lesser team will happen.
However tell me the last time Texas A&M beat bama 4 in a row 9 of 12? Whens
the last time UNLV beat utah 4 in row 9 of 12? Obviously fluke wins happen but
what Utah has proven is consistency in being better than the Y on the field
where it matters. The only one off wins lately in this series is a couple wins
by the Y getting lucky on 4th and 19 and hartline getting lost in coverage. If not for those two lucky wins it would be 11 of 12
@LonestarRunnerYes, 12-2 NI is better than 4-8 Iowa by plus 8. No, 8-5 BYU is not better than 5-7 Utah considering a plus 3 BYU has
FOUR build in wins Weber State, Idaho, New Mexicos State, and Hawaii. Utah
would easly be 8-5 with your schedule, advantage head-to-head.Bronco
has a losing record playing one-off BCS games, playing a similar schdeule both
Kyle and Patterson (TCU) dominated BCS teams. Now both are struggling each
week. No one would argue that Bronco would do better than Kyle in the PAC 12
or Patterson in the Big 12.
2bThe only thing laughable is Utah fans denying reality and
pretending that the same "body of work" logic that applied to Alabama
and Texas A&M, also applies to BYU and Utah.Utah has won the
individual game bragging rights lately, but BYU, based on the overall "body
of work" was the better team in five of the last eight seasons, and is
currently leading this season.
Uteology"No, 8-5 BYU is not better than 5-7 Utah"Despite your irrelevant, cherry-picking spin, according to Sagarin, BYU was
not only better, BYU was MUCH better than Utah.#26 BYU(8-5, #63 SOS)
> #61 Utah(5-7, #41 SOS)BYU beat a Top 25 team, #16/#17 Utah
State in 2012; who did U beat?BYU played FIVE Top 25 teams, and lost
to three of them by a total of 10 points.Utah only played TWO Top 25
teams, and lost to both.And let's not forget, Utah barely beat
1-11 Colorado in Utah's season finale.
@samarijake...The fact that PAC12 Officials have Officiated the past
3 games between the Cougs and the utes may not mean anything to you but it
speaks volumes to others...Wisconsin was a team that was badly hurt
by that fact in the ASU vs Wisconsin.... It wasn't ASU... In
the BYU-utah game, how many TDs did utah score that were called back? Thank
you... The lack of a pass intererence call on the last play of the game (a play
that anyone familiar with American Football at any level would have called) was
another devastating blow to the Cougs and a non-PAC opponent... PAC
refs have a bad reputation when it comes to calling games in which a PAC team
plays a non-PAC team... Plain and simple... In fact, I have no idea why Leagues
with some clout (i.e. the Big 10, the SEC, the ACC, and the Big 12)refuse to
play PAC teams if PAC officials are going to call them... They are horrible.I know that the utes thought that there were a couple of bad calls that
went against them, but none ended up costing them points.
0-2 in the Pac haha soon to be 0-3, have fun thumping your chest all season
about a 7 point win against Byu
jarka-rusLayton, UtahUtah 27 Stanford 21. Guess you were
wrong on that one. We all know who the best team and the best
football program in the State of Utah is Mr. Harmon.
Stanford < Texas4Quarters with Chuckie Keeton < 3.5 Quarters of
Craig Harrison End of story...