Very well spoken!
I was very, very glad to hear this talk. We need to have leaders who will boldly
declare what the Lord's standards are and that those do not deviate.Church members have the right and the duty to seek to enact public
policy that advances the interest of the family in a way that connects marriage
with child rearing. The definition of marriage as the union of a man and a woman
is the minimum definition that makes it clearly connected to child rearing.
I'm so glad I left this Church and it's god behind. I feel sorry for
those still trapped by it.
I'm so glad I belong to a church with leaders who have courage to stand up
to the trends in society that are destructive to families. Thank you Elder Oaks!
Curious why someone like Oragami would even be listening to General Conference
if they are so happy to have left the Church.
It would be interesting to receive a talk from Mr. Oaks on the many Mormon gods.
mcbillay, as an active Mormon friend, I would like to thank you for your civil
questions. You can probably anticipate my response.1. I would not like
my marriage referred to as "so-called." Our marriages are referred to
as "so-called," our prophets and even our Christianity. 2. The
highest Church leaders believe that they are called of God to provide a warning
voice to the world. I believe them. In the past, prophets, Jesus and the
apostles did the same thing and some accept what they said and others did not.
3. The 14th Article of Faithstates "We claim the privilege of
worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and
allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they
may." I expect people be politically active to implement their agendas.4. The talk stated our beliefs and that is as important as the LGBT community
stating theirs. I found the talk polite and that the LGBT community was far
from the only one criticized. If Oaks had left out the
"so-called" phrase, would you have found the talk unobjectionable?
There is only ONE God that we worship. It matter not how many Gods there are. 5
For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as
there be gods many, and lords many,) 6 But to us there is but one God, the
Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by
whom are all things, and we by him. (1 Cor 8:5-6) Those of the Christian faith
have taken God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost and made them all
ONE God through the mysteries of the trinity. There is but ONE that we worship.
ONE that has give us HIS commandments. And we follow HIM. So having to talk to
the other Gods about what they think.. matters not. But I would suspect that
they are all in one accord. Just doesn't seem like one God would make
homosexuality an OK thing.. and we just got stuck with the Father who says
it's not ok.
This whole conference has the theme of the 10 virgins. The message was very
clear it was to the members. Get on the right side of the fence!! You can not
say I will follow Christ and then support groups or lifestyles that are opposed
to God's commandments. You can not have your cake and eat it to! And if
they continue down this path.. expect to happen what happened in the parable.
The Lord to say: "Verily I say unto you, I know you not."
56 And at that day, when I shall come in my glory, shall the parable be
fulfilled which I spake concerning the ten virgins. 57 For they that
are wise and have received the truth, and have taken the Holy Spirit for their
guide, and have not been deceived—verily I say unto you, they shall not be
hewn down and cast into the fire, but shall abide the day. 58 And
the earth shall be given unto them for an inheritance; and they shall multiply
and wax strong, and their children shall grow up without sin unto salvation.
(D&C 45:56-58)Your choice Brothers and Sisters.. your choice.
I have never been happier since I left this church. I urge current members to
really think about this church and what it teaches.
I do not understand why the Leaders of the Church address issues like this with
"this is the way that is it" with regard to the LGBT community as
opposed to seeking guidance of the Lord as to how they could mitigate the
suffering and disenfranchisement that the LGBT members feel. I know too many
members who have left for feeling that there is no place for them in the Church.
Church member:I think about every day and have never been happier
since joining this Church.Skeptic:The Bible teaches
there are many gods. So what's your point? BTW, I know some religions (ie
the one I was born into) pray to "saints". That sounds like active idol
worship to me.As you know, Mormons worship (ie pray to) One God and
dont even pray to Savior (kind of interesting). Many other religions don't
know who they pray to and/or pray to other "gods". If Elder
Oaks was to give a talk about the "many Mormon gods" I think his talk
would include the same ones mentioned in the Bible and thus they are the
Christian gods, the Muslim gods, and the Jewish gods. (ie Baal is a god
identified in the Old testament).
HI TA 1. I am not trying to be confrontational. Your comment seems to be
concerned with the LGBT community as well as the Church. With that in mind, why
did you select the LGBT community rather than some other group, such as couples
having children out of wedlock, who seemed to be a larger target in Oaks talk?
Why do you believe that leaders of the Church have not sought
guidance in dealing with the LGBT community? Are you aware of the mormonandgays
website? I did not put in the whole address for fear of being caught by
filters. Again, I am not trying to be argumentative, just curious.
McBillay: I believe he used the word so-called in order to draw attention to the
point of his talk. Throughout his talk he noted that just because something
become legal does not necessarily make it morally right nor does it affect in
anyway God's laws. God's laws are God's to give and take, and
governments cannot change that. He noted that it is becoming trendy to have
children out of wedlock, then noted that regardless of how trendy that is, that
it is not morally correct behavior. That's what apostles do.
They are the only people authorized to do so in the whole world... and sometimes
it can be difficult to hear them, especially when our personal desires and
actions conflict. But that does not mean we cannot be patient and petition the
Lord for comfort and guidance in regards to these matters. Apostles must speak
out in general, but God also speaks to us as individuals. I hope
you will be able to understand the spirit of his talk. He speaks in precise
legal language, because he was a judge in civil matters. It often comes through
in his talks.
Laws are laws... rules are rules. Does one think that going to church and
being a member of this church guarantee's them a spot in the Celestial
Kingdom when they choose not to obey the law of Chastity? Does one think that
God just lets a few sinners in.. but not others? A free pass for the LGBT
community but not everyone else? Really? All the church can do is
say we love the sinner.. and stop sinning. One can not live the homosexual
lifestyle and be an active member of the church. It is better that if that is
the lifestyle one choose to live.. they do it outside of the church. That is
why there is disfellowshipment and excommunication. For those who can't
make the right decision on their own... one needs to made for them. Get off the police force if you want to be a criminal. In other words.. one
can not call themselves an office of the law.. if they are breaking the very
laws they are sworn to protect. The same goes for being a Latter Day Saint.
One can not be one unless the are willing to live like one.
Notice that political correctness is listed among the false gods in this talk.
Political correctness has become a popular moral standard, but it is not
God's moral standard. Though we respect the right of others to
live as they please, we seek guidance from Apostles and Prophets of God for how
we should live our lives. Elder Oaks is an Apostle of God and what he speaks is
Now that "so-called" same gender marriage is legal in California and
there are active, chaste TBM getting civilly married. Will these legally married
LGBT membersa be welcomed into family wards? There seems to be a diversity of
Opinion on the issue. Not Welcome, says my HP group leaders. Gee, now I know how
the Africian American members felt when Inter-racial marriage was made legal
throughout the land by the SCOTUS in 1967.
RE: MrNirom1,There is only ONE God that we worship.Hear, O Israel:
The LORD=(Yahweh) our God=(Elohim) is one LORD=(Yahweh). Deut 6:4.Ephesians 4:5 “one Lord.” The title Lord, a translation of the
Greek term kurios, is one of Paul’s favorite names for Jesus. Since the
Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew Old Testament from which the
apostle often quotes, renders the covenant name of God Yahweh as kurios,
Paul’s frequent use of the same title for Christ is most interesting. It
indicates that he had a high Christology, a doctrine of Christ that equates Him
with the one true God and covenant Lord of Israel. Simply put, the apostle
viewed Jesus as none other than God Himself. As there is only one Lord,
salvation rests in Him alone on.
Human laws can make legal that which lying, bigoted, scapegoating men -- like
all top Mormon Church leaders, including Dallin Oaks here -- have falsely
claimed has been declared immoral by God and therefore were made and continue to
be illegal because of such evil men.
raybiesOnly ones authorized in the world?? You are kidding right?
Just because you recognize the apostles as more then what they actually are,
doesn't mean the world has to follow them. They don't speak to the
world, they speak to their church. They haven't been authorized by me to
speak for me. How would you know that they have been authorized to speak for the
@ DocHolliday,He wasn't kidding. Just because you don't believe
it, doesn't mean it isn't true.You are correct, the choice is
there to follow or not, but the blessings don't come to those who
don't.They don't speak FOR the world, they speak TO the world.
So no, they aren't speaking for you, they are speaking to you.We know
just like the original 12 Apostles. They were called and set apart by those in
proper authority to be a special witness for Jesus Christ (that's the
calling of an Apostle), so that being the case, you can gain confirmation of
that fact from the Source of all truth.
Jack,I talk directly with "the Source" all the time. She
says she doesn't know those men at all.
JackBlessings don't come to those who don't follow your
god and your religion? I see plenty of happy and successful people that are of
other religions or no religion at all. they have great families, make good
money, etc. Yes, they have problems like everybody else. But they are in no way
short on being blessed. So what blessings are you talking about that are being
withheld from the %99+ of the world that doesn't follow your religion?
After over 60 years in the Church I still refer to it as "so called"
Eternal Marriage. I've never believed the doctrine for even a moment.The Church needs to stop labeling peoples, issues, and actions and take care
of it's own business. It's trying too hard to be the guardian of the
world when it's only a small organization in the grand scheme of things.
We will continue to speak against sin in all its forms even if it is unpopular
to do so. To those that have left the Church I am sorry, and I pray for you. To
those within the Church struggling with their faith due to social issues I
recommend study, fasting, prayer. I also have struggles with sin. I have found
that when I give into those sins I find a malcontent in my life. When I turn
back to God and the Atonement I find peace and joy and a greater desire to serve
others. Some will wander onto paths that lead away due to the scorn and mockery
of others (see 1 Nephi 8). I hope that more will hold fast to the rod of iron
that leads to Eternal Life. Hold fast my brothers and sisters.
I thought this was a very good talk. I was glad it was given, both for its
general and specific messages. We are in a cultural moment where some people--in
the church and out, well-meaning and not--are wondering how malleable and
"correctable" church principles and policies are. This talk, coming in a
series of such messages over the past years, clarifies the difference between
the church and society. I am very grateful there is such a difference.