Comments about ‘Utah football: Whittingham likes his team's toughness’

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Published: Saturday, Oct. 5 2013 8:43 p.m. MDT

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Spokane Ute
Spokane, WA

At Uteology

We'll done and nicely played Bro!

DeepBlue
Anaheim, CA

Uteology

It's laughable that U have to cut things off with an artificial bcs era time period, as if "bcs" has anything to do with the quality of competition Utah has faced in bowl games.

Pre-bowl, just like pre-season rankings are meaningless; the ONLY rankings that matter are final end of season rankings.

Since Utah fans count wins against AP/Coaches ranked and unranked teams, and the AP/Coaches polls don't rank all teams, Sagarin gives a much more accurate picture of quality of bowl opponents.

As SportsAuthority already posted:

Since 1996, Final Sagarin Rankings of BYU/Utah bowl opponents

BYU - 18, 19, 13, 27, 29, 24, 33, 24, 34, 121, 35, 66; average = 36
Utah - 46, 54, 37, 51, 55, 41, 65, 74, 6, 46, 6, 56; average = 45

TEN of BYU's 12 bowl opponents finished in the Top 35
TWO of Utah's 12 bowl opponents finished in the Top 35

Slice it however helps you sleep at night, but it's a fact, BYU's bowl opponents have been considerably better than Utah's bowl opponents.

Solomon Levi
Alpine, UT

Spokane Ute

Utah fans offering lame excuses for why their bowl opponents have been so pathetically weak and why so few Utah bowl winners have been ranked.

Here's a clue - one mediocre team beating another mediocre team in a bowl doesn't make either of them a good team, much less, a ranked team.

Uteology
East Salt Lake City, Utah

@talkinsports

If Utah's bowl winning teams were really any good, why weren't they good enough to be ranked?

* crickets *

------------

Huh?

In the BCS era THREE Utah bowl opponents were ranked before and after the game:

#25 Pitt, #6 Bama, #9 Boise... Utah went 2-1.

BYU over the same period?

#10 Marshall, #17 Louisville , #25 Cal (were not raked before the game)... BYU went 0-3.

GoRed
WEST VALLEY CITY, UT

@talkinsports

Please read Spokane Ute's post. Your fan base doesn't quite seem to get the rules of trash talking. It goes like this: You earn the right to trash talk when your team BEATS your rival's team. When you lose, as your team has done for 4 years in a row, it is wise to keep quiet. And be humble.

A humble byu fan? Now that's an oxymoron.

skywalker
Palo Alto, CA

Uteology

two words: reading comprehension

let's try it again:

If Utah's bowl winning teams were really any good, why weren't they good enough to be ranked?

1999 UNRANKED Utah wins Las Vegas Bowl
2001 UNRANKED Utah wins Las Vegas Bowl
2003 #21/#21 Utah wins Liberty Bowl over UNRANKED/#51 So Miss
2004 #4/#5 Utah wins Fiesta Bowl over #25/UR/#55 Pittsburgh
2005 UNRANKED Utah wins Emerald Bowl
2006 UNRANKED Utah wins Armed Force Bowl
2007 UNRANKED Utah wins Poinsettia Bowl
2008 #2/#4 Utah wins Sugar Bowl over #6/#6/#6 Alabama
2009 #18/#18 Utah wins Poinsettia Bowl over UNRANKED/#46 California
2011 UNRANKED Utah wins Sun Bowl

Slice it however you want, but SIX of Utah's last TEN bowl winning teams weren't good enough to be ranked.

Only FOUR of Utah's last twelve bowl teams (33%) finished in the AP Top 25.
While SIX of BYU's last twelve bowl teams (50%) finished in the AP Top 25.

As much as Utah fans like to beat their chests about how great their bowl winning teams were, the simple truth is, most of them weren't good enough to be ranked in the Top 25.

gdog3finally
West Jordan, Utah

I like the Utes toughness as well. They are going to get the point where they are very competitive in the PAC. As for talking smack on Utah missing a bowl game last year? Whatever. What you think BYU would go bowling with Utah's schedule? Not a chance. It's easy for BYU to make a bowl game with all the patsies they play each year. Oh by the way, losing to Virginia was every bit as bad as losing to Colorado two years ago. The ACC is a weak conference and Virginia is at the bottom of it every year.

With Middle Tennessee, Houston, Idaho, and Nevada on the Cougars schedule, of course they go bowling. It took a devastated USU team to help that goal.

Utah missed a bowl game last year because Whitt decided to develop Wilson rather than stick with Hays and win 6 or 7 games. The big picture was there rather than stick with mediocrity like Bronco did with Nelson the last two years. How much further would Taysom Hill have been if he was developed earlier. A sharp Hill would have given BYU a chance against Utah a few weeks back.

Uteology
East Salt Lake City, Utah

@skywalker

Slice it however you want, but SIX of Utah's last TEN bowl winning teams weren't good enough to be ranked.

--------------

You guys keep switching measurements. First it was opponents rankings then switcheroo to compare head-to-head rankings.

What you guys won't touch is head-to-head beatings. I don't blame you, you are 0-4 in your annual Super Bowl.

In the current era as far as bowl opponents, Utah's played and beat better ranked bowl teams.

As far as accomplishments, BYU has ONE more AP top 25 team. Congrats!

Undefeated seasons? Utah

BCS Bowls? Utah

Most importantly, BCS Bowl game wins? Utah

Weighted AP Top 25 ranked teams? Utah #2 #4, BYU #12 14 16, Utah #18 21, BYU #25 #25

sammyg
Springville, UT

The Ute meltdown has started. Just reading a few of these comments you can tell some Ute fans are already frustrated and coming unglued.

Kind of reminds me of a popular Andy Williams tune...

"It's the Most Wonderful Time of the Year."

LonestarRunner
Salt Lake City, UT

Uteology

AP/Coaches Rankings (1936 to 2013)

BYU
2011 ur/#25
2009 #12/#12
2008 #25/#21
2007 #14/#15
2006 #16/#15
2001 #25/#24
1996 #5/#5
1994 #18/#10
1991 #23/#23
1990 #22/#17
1989 #22/#18
1985 #16/#17
1984 #1/#1
1983 #7/#7
1981 #13/#11
1980 #12/#11
1979 #13/#12
1977 #20/#16

Utah
2010 ur/#23
2009 #18/#18
2008 #2/#4
2004 #4/#5
2003 #21/#21
1994 #10/#8
1964 ur/#14

Of the 1053 AP Polls:
BYU has been ranked in 22%: 11 times (Preseason), 17 times (Final), 236 Weeks (Total)
Utah has been ranked in 7%: 2 times (Preseason), 5 times (Final), 77 Weeks (Total)

AP Top 25 During the Bronco/Kyle era
Bronco 4
Kyle 2

LonestarRunner
Salt Lake City, UT

Uteology

It's laughable that Utah fans like to pretend that the bcs is the end all be all of college football achievements, yet when it comes to citing final rankings, the Utes always refer to the AP poll, which has absolutely NOTHING to do with the bcs. As USC proved, you don't even have to play in the bcs championship game in order to win the AP national championship.

Bottom line: AP Top 25 Finishes
BYU 17 (including a national championship)
Utah 5 (including a distant 2nd in their best finish ever)

Bronco has almost as many AP Top 25 finishes since 2006 (four), as the Utes have in their entire history (five).

gdog3finally
West Jordan, Utah

Here are the couch potato bowl comments again. BYU has made bowls in recent years in large part because they beat patsies on half of their schedule, while losing more than half their games against legit opponents. The Utes have lost more than half their games against legit competition as well, but don't have breaks in the war of attrition against smaller programs.

Yes playing a PAC 12 schedule is far different than playing BCS opponents sprinkled in a MWC or independent schedule. Case in point; Utah had the best record against BSC teams of any other non BCS program from 2000-2010 going 17-6. That was better than BYU, TCU, and Boise State. What has changed? No Utah hasn't gotten worse in their talent and coaching. It is the schedule, one in which Utah beats BYU regularly.

gdog3finally
West Jordan, Utah

Head to head does matter. One game does not a season make? Sure. I get that, but what does a season consist of? It consist of a schedule, one that is not comparable for Utah and BYU. When they had comparable schedules in the Bronco and Kyle era before the 2011 shift, Utah was one game better. Since that point, BYU has been four games better despite losing 4 in a row to Utah. Duh, it's schedule. Isn't that obvious behind the blue glasses.

Now we can go back to 1984 forever. BYU fans can talk sagarin ratings ect... That stuff is so secondary to head to head and the here and now instead of glory day accomplishments.

That said, you could say Utah has BYU's number and that doesn't mean Utah is better because of overall record and such. Well okay, but BYU has wanted to beat Utah more than ever and hasn't done it. It's not like they showed up and lost an anonymous game and went on to a ten win season of greatness.

gdog3finally
West Jordan, Utah

Speaking of 10 win seasons. Before the shift of the PAC 12 and independence, BYU only led Utah 4 to 3 in that category. During that same time Utah won two BCS games and went undefeated twice. I hear some BYU fans say Bronco has five ten win seasons to Kyle's three, but 2011 (the fifth) might be examined as follows. That was after Utah left the MWC (no longer comparable schedules). Utah went 8-5 in 2011 while BYU went 10-3. However Utah beat BYU in Provo that year 54-10 and played a PAC 12 schedule, while BYU played Hawaii, Tulsa, Idaho, Idaho State, New Mexico State, San Jose State, and UCF. That is seven patsies and seven wins (although BYU lost to San Jose State the following year). So BYU went 10-3 and 7-0 against weak teams that year, but was only 3-3 against the rest of the schedule. the wins were over Ole Miss 14-13, USU 27-24 (on the last second deflected pass TD, and Oregon State 38-28. The losses were against Texas 17-16, Utah 54-10, and TCU 38-28.

SCHEDULE recognition please.

jdub1942
PROVO, UT

BYU fans dont get it, you lost to Utah 4 years in a row, you therefore have no room to talk. Here I am wasting my breath again trying to explain this simple concept.

"One game does not a season make" will be the response, but byu fans you only have 3 real games in your entire schedule, in which you will lose all of them. If the Utah-Y game was played 12 times (hint the last 12 years) Utah would win 9 of them, with the other 3 being complete miracles.

Sometimes Y fans will respond with "I said nothing about my team, why did you bring them up?" Of course you didnt mention your team, they are a complete embarrassment, yet you are only commenting on a Utah article because you are a bitter Y "fan."

CordonBleu
Park City, UT

gdog3finally

The Utes have qualified for the vast majority of their bowls by beating up on patsies for half of their schedule (UNLV, New Mexico, Wyoming, Colorado State, Utah State, Washington St, Colorado), and now you're whining about not being able to qualify for a bowl because you're not good enough to finish with a winning record in your new conference after beating your chests about being able to compete with anybody?

10+ Win Seasons
BYU 16, Bronco 5
Utah 6, Kyle 3

11+ Win Seasons
BYU 11, Bronco 3
Utah 2, Kyle 1

The truth is, Kyle has had ONE great season, and little else, since taking over a program built by Urban Meyers.

btw, BYU played FIVE Top 25 teams in 2012; how many did U play?

STLute
St. Louis, MO

I'll take the exciting games between Oregon State and UCLA (even though they were losses) over any games we played against former conference members. The games were well-played and enjoyable to watch without all of the non-football related arguments and made-up controversies.

Go Utes!

Uteanymous
Salt Lake City, Utah

Unless you're willing to claim, unequivocally, that

UNLV(2-10) was BETTER than Utah(9-4)
Colorado(3-10) was BETTER than Utah(8-5)
#5 Texas A&M(11-2) was BETTER than #1 Alabama(13-1)

then, your claim that head-to-head trumps season is meaningless

Kyle has one great 13-0, Top 5 season, and little else.
Bronco has three VERY GOOD 11-2, Top 15 seasons.

BYU played FIVE Top 25 teams in 2011; Utah only played TWO.

During the Independence/PAC era, the Polls and Sagarin Rankings disprove your biased spiel. BYU finished ahead of Utah in overall record and ranking in 2 of the 3 seasons (2011 and 2012), and is currently ahead of Utah for 2013.

AP/Coaches/Sagarin Rankings

2010
ur/ur/#45 BYU(7-6) #55 SOS
ur/#23/#26 Utah(10-3) #50 SOS

2011
ur/#25/#34 BYU(10-3) #90 SOS
ur/ur/#39 Utah(8-5) #49 SOS

2012
ur/ur/#26 BYU(8-5) #63 SOS
ur/ur/#61 Utah(5-7) #41 SOS

2013
ur/ur/#29 BYU(3-2) #32 SOS
ur/ur/#34 Utah(3-2) #15 SOS

Uteanymous
Salt Lake City, Utah

To summarize:

2010 #45 BYU < #26 Utah
2011 #34 BYU > #39 Utah
2012 #26 BYU > #61 Utah
2013 #29 BYU > #34 Utah

If "one game makes a season and proves which team is better", then please explain why Alabama, and not Texas A&M, played in the bcs championship game, and why EVERY AP and Coaches poll voter selected Alabama #1, while Texas A&M finished a distant #5 in both polls.

Jordan
Lynchburg, VA

People love using the word "whiney" for both sides on these boards. Seems like everybody is whining about something, apparently. I'm going to do something different. BYU fans, congratulations on a solid win over a solid Utah State team. That's a great win and I'm not afraid to say it. As for my team, I'm still extremely excited for our future. We are playing some great teams tough, especially UCLA, who ran Nebraska out of their own stadium. I also am excited about Wilson. The dude is a stud. 6 picks is not good by any stretch, but I put at least half of those on the receivers. That also doesn't include some of their other drops.
Now this next game against Stanford is going to be rediculously tough. I'm not going to say there is a 0% chance, that's why we play the game. Either way, I love getting to watch Utah play all these awesome teams, and I really am glad Utah is putting up a fight and scaring them, now to get the big win!

Go Utes!

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