Quantcast

Comments about ‘Dan Sorensen: Winning is the answer on recruiting front for Utah football’

Return to article »

Published: Friday, Oct. 4 2013 10:15 a.m. MDT

Comments
  • Oldest first
  • Newest first
  • Most recommended
Christopher B
Ogden, UT

This is true, and I've been saying it for years.

It also explains why Utah is beating byu/usu year after year after year

The last 4 years, guess who won the head to head AND average star recruiting in the state between Utah, usu, and byU?

1. Utah
2. Utah
3. Utah
4. Utah

That's right, even most of the kids that Bronco and Kyle both go after are picking Utah.

And they say the Pac 12 is a big reason for their picking Utah.

byu used to get most of the best kids in the state.

That has CHANGED. Most are picking Utah.

We dominate recruiting over the in state schools(and this is a big reason we beat them on the field)

But we still are a little behind in the Pac 12. No, we'll never out recruit USC, UCLA, Oregon.

But we can out recruit the Arizona schools and few others in the Pac 12.

Go Utes

Christopher B
Ogden, UT

And byu fans keep trying to tell me a team full of 1 and 2 star nobodies is as talented as average 3 star team.

Yes, coaching comes into play.

But recruiting is HUGE

And although the recruiting services "miss" on many guys a year, on AVERAGE they get it right.

Take a look at these FACTS:

A 5 star has a higher probability of being drafter than a 4 star
A 4 star higher than a 3 star
A 3 star higher than a 2 star

A byu fan once tried to tell me "more 3 stars have been drafted than 5 stars" in attempting to suggest there is no difference in talent.

While his statement was true, what he was implying was flat out wrong.

They give out very very few 5 and 4 stars and tons of 2 and 3 stars.

It would be like me saying "There are more people under 7 feet in the NBA than over" and trying to claim height isn't important. Yes it is, there are just fewer of them. But a person over 7 feet has a higher chance of playing in the NBA than someone under 7 feet.

Ifel Of'a-sofa
Alpine, Utah

Christopher... Welcome to Pick City

Snack PAC
Olympus Cove, Utah

christy

The Utes are 7-13 in the PAC and well on their way to another losing, bowl-less season, and you're still obsessed with how Utah's recruiting compares to BYU's recruiting?

Once a little brother, always a little brother.

Ifel Of'a-sofa
Alpine, Utah

how about forgetting about "stars" and just win games.

you have only had 1 road game so far and that was at byu. the rest have been at Pick City and you are only 3-2 0-2.

keep reaching for the stars

MUSSing with U
Baltimore, MD

christy

Kyle and Bronco has both said that BYU and Utah only go head-to-head for a handful of recruits every year, so even if 100% picked Utah over BYU, you're only talking about 5 or 6 recruits, total. Of course, we all know that's not the case, so go on deluding yourself into believing Utah is somehow winning the recruiting war.

btw, BYU is 5-1 lifetime versus Oklahoma(2-0) and Texas(3-1), so despite the vast disparity in 4- and 5-star recruits, stars are obviously not the only factor, or even the most important factor, in determining success on the field.

Christopher B
Ogden, UT

There is a reason Utah wins the great majority of the games against lower schools usu and byu and a reason Utah has lost most games against good Pac 12 teams:

Recruiting.

Stars matter

Roscoe would be wise to learn the average 1-2 star is not the same as an average 3 star.

Reno Cougs Fan 68
Reno, NV

ChristoperB,

Maybe Utah needs to stop recruiting in the State of Utah completely because even getting the cream of the crop you are still 0-2 in conference and 0-2 outside the State of Utah!!! How does Utah rank against the other schools in the conference in recruiting? Is Utah going to put the recruiting trophy in the same case as the State of Utah championship trophy or does it have its own case? LOL

Veritas Aequitas
Fruit Heights, UT

Christopher B
Ogden, UT

This is true, and I've been saying it for years.
===

Let me give you another fact.

If Utah had scored more points than all the teams they have played in the past twenty years, they would be undefeated for those twenty years.

Keep throwing out the "truth" and "facts"...

Christopher B
Ogden, UT

@Reno,

Yes, I've long said we need to reduce recruiting in the state.

And Whittingham has done exactly that. Over half of our roster is out of state, and the out of state percentage has increased the last several years compared to the prior decades.

And that is a good thing.

Look at the players to go to the NFL from Utah, byu, and usu the last decade. Nearly all are NOT from the state of Utah. And there aren't too many kids from Utah who attended colleges elsewhere that were drafted either.

So yes, let's leave the typical Utah boy to byu and usu. that's more their level

Pac 12 Pride
Salt Lake, UT

Mussing, Chris never said it was the only factor. In fact he says coaching is a big factor.

Be honest, how would Nick Saban be doing if he coached at byu and Bronco coached with Saban's players at Alabama? You think byu would have 3 national championships the last four years? Nope! And while it may be true Utah and byu are going after fewer of the same kids, Chris also mentions average stars which Utah has won. So yes, Utah has had the recruiting edge, not just with a handful of players.

Keep telling yourself that byu's 1 and 2 star team is not much different in talent than the 4 and 5 stars that Nick Saban has, or that the stars aren't indicative of the difference in talent level.

Brave Sir Robin
San Diego, CA

@Reno Cougs Fan 68

"Is Utah going to put the recruiting trophy in the same case as the State of Utah championship trophy or does it have its own case?"

As a BYU fan, maybe you should tell us. After all, your school invented the term "February Championship" to describe all those awesome recruiting classes, and seeing as you don't have a conference, the State of Utah trophy is the only one you've got to play for. Sadly, you're finishing 3rd out of 3 in that contest.

Sports Are Great
Salt Lake City, UT

@Mussing and all other byu fans - I'm a byu fan as well, and as unbelievable as it sounds, this is one area I actually agree with Chris B on. Let's admit it when he's right.

I just found this article, which I thought was interesting. Admittedly it only studied 2012 draft, but I have a hard time believing that other drafts, or taking every draft since recruiting services really took off would give significantly different conclusions. From Athlon Sports:

"On the surface, it appears that a five-star recruit is just as likely to get drafted in the first round as the two-stars, considering that four of each were taken this year. But that isn't using math correctly. There are only 25-30 five-star recruits in any given year while there are roughly 1,600-1,800 two-stars each cycle. Therefore, if you are rated as five-star, you have roughly a 13.3% chance to get drafted in the first round (4/30). But if you are a two-star prospect, you have a 0.2% chance of being drafted in the first round (4/1,800)."

"A pretty massive difference."

to be continued..

Sports Are Great
Salt Lake City, UT

continued from prior post..

"If you are a four-star prospect, you have a 4.3% chance of being drafted in the first round (13/300), and as a three-star recruit, you have a 1.3% chance of going in the first round (10/800). It's safe to say, that the higher-ranked prospects have a dramatically better chance of landing in the first round."

It's fair to say being drafted in the first round is as good of a measure of talent as anything else.

Chris B is rarely right, but when he is, let's admit we can take facts. More often than not the recruiting services get it right and the best teams usually have better athletes and better coaching. Chris has never said its the only thing, just that recruiting is important, and that USUALLY the recruiting services are right.

Coaches(Bronco included) will do the best they can. But I'd take Bronco's coaching and a more talented team over Bronco's coaching and a less talented team any day. Stop trying to disprove Chris wrong when he is right.

talkinsports
Gilbert, AZ

christy

Of BYU, Utah, and USU, which is the only school to have lost to TWO 10+ loss teams in the last 6 years?

The truth is, Kyle has proven, despite Utah's supposed "vast superiority" in talent, that he and the Utes are capable of losing to ANYBODY.

------------

PAC nothing to beat your chest about, yet

Bronco has had three 11-win, Top 15 finishes since 2006.

How many 11-win, Top 15 finishes have the Utes had, EVER?

Face it, the Utes had a couple of great, perfect storm seasons in 2004 and 2008, but other than that, the Utes haven't done diddly on the national stage.

btw,

lifetime 11+ win seasons
BYU 11
Utah 2

lifetime 10+ win seasons
BYU 16
Utah 6

BlueCoug
Orem, UT

Sports Are Great

Let's not confuse NFL draft potential with college football success. Lots of players who excel in college, fail to make it in the NFL.

Look no further than Brian Wilson, who lead the Utes to their greatest win ever in the Sugar Bowl, but failed to even make an NFL roster.

Frankly, I'll take a bunch of 2- and 3-star recruits who are willing to work their behinds off, over a bunch of 4- and 5-star recruits who play with a sense of entitlement that all they have to do to win is show up on game day.

Bronco recruits the types of players who best fit the unique profile required of a BYU athlete. We all saw what happened when Crowton strayed away from those standards.

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@sports are great

The irony of christina's claims lies in the FACT that utah is a losing program at the bottom of its conference. Who care's if she is "right" if her team cannot win games? Quit trying to defend christina when she is indefensible. Her team is a loser, and it doesn't matter how many claims she makes.

RockOn
Spanish Fork, UT

Losers whine. Utah is as relevant in the PAC 12 as Colorado, Arizona, and Washington State. None of these 4 schools could reach the pinacle of any BCS conference. They are like Duke, Vanderbilt, and other perenial bottom dwellers in power conferences. Fodder. For any of their supporters to get sanctimonious and beat their chest that they are in a power conference is laughable.

No doubt Utah is in a better recruiter position being in the PAC12 than BYU being independent. Utah gets more players into the NFL. With such an advantage you'd think they blow out BYU every year -- and they should with the fact that they get more **** recruits.

With BYU's inherent obstacles of honor, spirit and tradition, it's a wonder they ever get a Van Noy and aren't FCS or DII. But, they can only squeek out wins and sometimes lose. Obviously Utah has problems that red kool-aid drinkers can't face.

Pipes
Salt Lake City, UT

So all the 4 and 5 star recruits that want to be home for the Holidays will pick the utes and those that want to play in the post season will pick BYU and USU!

Sports Are Great
Salt Lake City, UT

BlueCoug, You're beating around the issue. Although there may be 4 and 5 stars recruits who feel entitled, but certainly you don't believe there aren't 2-3 star recruits who also feel entitled do you? Or that there aren't 4-5 star recruits who don't feel entitled? Let's also not suggest great athletes can't be good kids too.

The question you chose to avoid is this: Which team is more likely to be better, a team with 1 and 2 star guys or a team with mostly 3 and some 4 star guys? Again, the coach at any given school is the same whether he has 1-2 star guys or mostly 3 star guys. I'd love having a BYU team full of 3 star guys willing to work their behinds off, more so than a team of 1-2 star guys willing to work their behinds off.

@Duckhunter, I love a Utah loss more than anyone. And Chris B paints their fan base pretty accurately. But there is truth to his statements that higher ranked star teams typically do better, and athletic ability is a big reason why.

to comment

DeseretNews.com encourages a civil dialogue among its readers. We welcome your thoughtful comments.
About comments