Mountanman, no, I'm not a recipient of anything you mention there. But I am
part of the GOP's hated 47% -- and very proud of it.Proud
because I'm a loyal American who worked hard for well over 60 years and
never took any "welfare" from the government or anyone else. Proud
because I pay my full taxes without any offshore havens to shield me. (I paid a
higher effective tax rate last year than Mitt.) Proud because I try very hard to
be sure that I have learned what is fact and what is political fiction before
voting. Proud because I really AM honest - unlike too many of our
"leaders" and the wealthy powerbrokers who have purchased them lock,
stock and barrel.
If the Republicans ever get back in power, you think they're going to
change the ACA? Not likely, since it is 100% their own idea to begin with.D'oh!
You are right, Howard. Richards, where is WIC authorized in the Constitution, in
your understanding of it? You should be just fine with the Senate not accepting
the piece meal funding, after all, you do not think a federal program like WIC
is constitutional. But of course, we have no illusions, all your
bluster about the Constitution is nothing more then partisanship.
So Mr. Mike Richards:I've read your posts for years, since when
have you supported WIC or any government program? And then you slam the
President for actions leading to cuts in these programs. That's truly
The Republicans are working hard to alienate people with the shutdown and the
delay of immigration reform. Have Rush Limbaugh attack women again and 2014 will
be a banner year.
Mike:Where does it say in the Constitution that legislation requires
x amount of Republican votes to pass? How apart the part where we're
supposed to decide laws based on public opinion polls?I've said
this before on these forums and I'll probably say it again, but if
Republicans want to overturn Obamacare, they can play by the rules. Draw up a
bill, get it passed by both the Senate and the House, and have either a) a
President who's willing to sign it or b) enough votes to overturn a veto.
Republicans can't do this, so they're holding our economy hostage
instead of honoring the Constitution they love to give lip service to.You're probably too blinded by your hatred of Obama to see this, but you
inadvertently hit on a good point: if the Democrats yield on this, our rule of
law becomes meaningless. Want to bring back Prohibition or slavery? Revoke
female sufferage? Just shut down the government until you get your way. Never
mind the due process that's served us well for 226 years. This is about
far more than Obamacare; our future as a republic is at stake.
re:Alfred/MikeRichards/JThompson"Harry Reid and his friend,
Obama, thumbed their noses at all of them and either ripped them up or sent them
back."As expected, the Senate voted down the House's latest
version of a temporary budget bill Monday afternoon in a straight party-line
vote. (Sept 30 2013)Okay--so we're just waiting for the
House to come up with a bill that will pass in the Senate. The ball is in
the "House." Republicans own the shutdown and everybody
@ECR:"Alfred - please check the facts."ECR - please
check the Constitution. Which says: 'All bills for raising revenue shall
originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur
with Amendments as on other bills.' Article 1.7.The House
funding bill is to be the prime document which can be agreed to or amended by
the Senate. The US Constitution gives no authority for the Senate to create its
own funding bill and insist the House accept it."Evidence is
there that if Speaker Boehner presented a clean CR it would pass in the House,
but without a Republican Majority and so he refuses to do that."There's nothing in the US Constitution authorizing CRs."Patty Murray, the leader of the Senate Budget committee has been blocked
18 times since last spring from holding a budget conference with the
House."John Boehner and the House passed several funding bills
for various government agencies. Harry Reid and his friend, Obama, thumbed
their noses at all of them and either ripped them up or sent them back."Just check the facts, please!"Ditto!
There are so many who choose to ignore the Constitution. One poster tells us
that "settled law" can't be changed. Does he want to go back to
the days of savery, of prohibition, of women not voting? Even a grade-schooler
knows that Congress legislates and that "settled law" does not keep
Congress from writing new laws. Other posters keep telling us that the Senate
sent a budget bill to the House. Can't they read? Are they so ignorant of
the Constitution that they think that the Senate originates budget bills? Has
the American education system failed so miserably that many don't have a
clue about civics, or, do they purposefully choose to mangle the Supreme Law of
the Land to suit their purposes, as does Obama and Harry Reid?The
People are represented by the House. The People have rejected ObamaCare, not
only this year, but before it was "passed". 59% (that's a majority
for the math impaired), rejected ObamaCare before it was voted on, but that
didn't stop Obama and the Democrats from shoving it down our throats. Not
one Republican voted for ObamaCare.The House rejects ObamaCare.
I'm not a Catholic, but I've come to really respect Pope Francis.
Here's an idea, let's appoint him to lead the House, Senate, and White
House out of the mess they've made.
@Mike Richards"He has shut down essential services, which were fully
funded by the House, to show us that he is the boss."The Senate
passed a fully funded continuing resolution too. However, there's not a
majority in the Senate that would vote for the House bill. A majority in the
House support the Senate bill (21 Republicans have openly stated they would
support a clean continuing resolution) but Boehner isn't bringing it up for
a vote unlike when the Senate brought up the House versions (and then voted them
Mr DeForest. I am afraid that your condition is terminal. There is no real
antidote to Faux News and crazy Beck.
Alfred - please check the facts. Since last March the Senate Democrats have
made 18 offers to sit down and negotiate the budget for FY2014 and they have
been refused every time. The Republicans know full well that the Administration
will not change the ACA and so thae have focused the issue on that. In fact, a
small handful have focused the issue on that. Evidence is there that if Speaker
Boehner presented a clean CR it would pass in the House, but without a
Republican Majority and so he refuses to do that. And somehow people of your
thinking somehow interpret that as honorable behavior. The issues mentioned in
the Fox News Report mentioned in my previous post indicate that the Republicans
agreed to pass the CR with the other reductions mentioned supported by the
Democrats, despite their desire not to cut those elements of the budget but then
the Republicans didn't keep their word. For gosh sakes, even Fox News
admits that.Patty Murray, the leader of the Senate Budget committee
has been blocked 18 times since last spring from holding a budget conference
with the House. Just check the facts, please!
Anyone who believes that if Obamacare proves to be the train wreck so many of us
believe it will be (and has already caused havok), that the Democrats and Obama
will say "you know, you were right, it is a disaster and we need to get rid
of it", is dilusional.Once this program takes full effect, it
will be impossible to get rid of. To quote Jessie Ventura it will be "dug in
like an Alabama Tick". It won't matter how bad it is or like so many
other government programs - how much it costs more than it should. It won't
matter how many jobs it costs, how enemic the economy remains, or how many
people die waiting in line for rationed health care.Remember, it is
the Democrats who still say that the last big stimulus package (that was nothing
more than a political payoff to all their friends) only failed so badly because
we didn't spend enough money on it.
Re: "Only one choice"...President saying, "there's
only one choice", sounds like a dictator to me. That doesn't sound
like compromise or cooperation to me.I don't know how Harry
Reid and the media can paint the President as the man of compromise when he
clearly says, "There's only one choice". Sorry... but that is NOT
compromise. That's dictating.They can say he doesn't NEED
to compromise. That would be true. But to pretend that he is TRYING to
compromise... is just 100% intellectually dishonest.
@Open Minded Mormon:"Passed by the House,Passed by the
Senate,Signed by the President,and upheld by the Supreme Court.and IS the Law of the Land."Are you talking about immigration
laws... which are totally ignored by Obama?@Open Minded Mormon:"We have a President throwing a tantrum because those elected House
members have already PASSED the ACA [you call it, Obamacare]..."Zero Republicans in Congress voted for Obamacare. And Obama hisself called it
'Obamacare.'"...and NOW have the audacity to shutdown
the rest of the Government and the country thinking it will stop it from
happening."The government is being shut down by the Democrats.
Government funding works like this (per the Constitution): Funding bills are the
responsibility of the House. Then it goes to the Senate for approval. If the
Senate disagrees, the House and Senate sit down in conference committee and work
out the differences. Right now the Democrats in the Senate refuse to sit down
with the Republicans to work out the differences. That results in shut down.
Who's fault? Looks like those who refuse to negotiate (Senate Democrats).
Mike, No, the president isn't throwing a tantrum. He's
just refusing to pay the ransom demanded by the House. Refusing to negotiate
with terrorists, if you will. And the House cannot reject the ACA. It already
passed it. It cannot repeal it until the GOP scores a hat trick: the House and
the Senate and the White House. Unlikely to happen as long as the tea party
exerts its extremist brand of partisanship and refuses to exit the right-wing
echo chamber for a breath of fresh air. But in the meantime, the House can
certainly bring our unique form of constitutional government to the brink of
extinction. And you don't see this? I thought you liked the Constitution,
even though you read it through different spectacles than anyone else on these
comment boards, except perhaps the guy from Idaho who pays enough tax to fund
Obamacare all by himself, by his account. Sorry to disappoint.
@ECR:"... his assertion that the Democrats haven't compromised is
just as big a fantasy."The truth is... the House Repubs have
passed several budgets that fund the entire government except Obamacare... but
the Senate Dems refuse to even consider any of them. In fact, Dems totally
refuse to sit down with Repubs to negotiate differences. Harry Reid is an
intransigent fiend who name-calls Republicans in the House..@Grover:"What we have now is an attempt at a power grab by people
without the votes to make it happen legislatively."The power
grab is happening on the Democrat side. They have refused to compromise on
anything while the Republicans have given in on a number of issues.@RFLASH:"You know what the true problem is for Republicans
isn't the idea that Obamacare will fail. They are more worried that it will
work!"We know the failures... higher insurance premiums and
deductibles for millions of Americans... Doctors fleeing the business and
retiring... Foreign doctors coming in to take their place... Old folks being
denied care... The country becoming a part-time job country... unemployment
dramatically increasing as employers lay people off.
wrz,It doesn't matter that Democrats control only 2/3rds of the
government today. They have shutdown the government 5 times (out of the 18
total so far) when they controlled all 3 (President, House and Senate). Google
"government shutdowns in the United States".Democrats whine
a lot about THIS shutdown, but they forget that they brought the government to a
shutdown 5 times during the Carter Administration (when they also controlled
both the Senate and the House) so it's real hard to blame that on evil
republicans who controlled 0% of the government at that time. And over what?
Something SUPER IMPORTANT? No. They shutdown the government 5 times over
Government Funding for ABORTION!!To some... opposing the
"Fundamental Transformation of this country" is not worth shutting down
the government? But Government funding for Abortion is?
I agree. Republicans have made their point that they are against it, and they
were not allowed to have any input on it. So let it go and let the people
decide if they like it or not (before the next election).It's
going to take awhile for the misery-index to rise to the point that people are
actually willing to change their life-long voting habits. The sooner it gets
out there the better, so they can vote their frustration in the next
election.If people love it (which I doubt will happen long-term)...
then Republicans were wrong, and THEY will pay the price at the polls. But
it's not like you are winning elections today, and the stalemate isn't
winning you any fans or votes.Let ObamaCare be fully implemented
(including the mandate on big businesses Obama delayed) as soon as possible...
so the highest number of people can see their new insurance rates and vote their
frustration in the coming election.
@Mike RichardsSouth Jordan, UtahWe have a President who is
throwing a tantrum because the People, through their elected House members, have
rejected ObamaCare. ======= No, We have a
President throwing a tantrum because those elected House members have already
PASSED the ACA [you call it, Obamacare] and NOW have the audacity to shutdown
the rest of the Government and the country thinking it will stop it from
happening.Do you support the rule of law AND the Constitution Mike,
Actually, Brent, we can only change and fix the Affordable Care Act if the
Republicans DON'T take a majority. The President and virtually everyone
else involved with the Act admit that there are going to be things that will
need to be altered. We will only know what those things are once we see what
works and what doesn't work. The Republicans are not interested in any of
that. They simply want to repeal and send up back to the days when insurance
companies had the power of life and death over us.
"Since the Republicans only control one-third of the government and the
Democrats with two-thirds..."Let's see which party has the
majority in the government... count noses of the elected Democrats and
Republicans in the House, Senate, and White House and you'll see that the
Republicans outnumber the Democrats by about 4." are totally
dug in and unwilling to compromise in any way..."Who are you
kidding? The House Republicans have passed several budgets that fund the
complete government (sans Obamacare). But the Senate Democrats refuse to accept
any of them. So, it looks like the Democrats are the culprits in the
shutdown."I think the only choice the Republicans have is to let
Obmacare play out and demonstrate what a train wreck disaster it will certainly
be."It might be a train wreck but the Democrats won't admit
it and the media, who they are in cahoots with, won't report it."...the only choice for the Republicans is to... elect a Republican House
and Senate in 2014 and a Republican president in 2016."The
chances for that is slim to none. Again, Democrats have the media in their
We have a President who is throwing a tantrum because the People, through their
elected House members, have rejected ObamaCare. He has shut down essential
services, which were fully funded by the House, to show us that he is the boss.
Women, Infants, and Children are left without help, even though WIC was fully
funded. He has barricaded our national monuments, even though it cost more to
put up the barricades than it would have cost to have minimal police protection,
again, showing that he is boss and that he will prevent any citizen from seeing
the monuments of Presidents who were not tyrants. Why should the
House let that insensitive President dictate to them, and to us, that he will
throw us all under the bus if he doesn't get his way? A two-year-old is
expected to have an occassional tantrum, but the President? Just how old is he
Stop all federal payments to everyone! Next day this will end. Do you
think for one minute those receiving social security will put up with not
getting their money?Do you think the wealthy corporations, and oil
companies, will put up with not getting their money?Do you think anyone
will put up with the military not getting paid?Right now it is just the
average working American being hurt.Best way to stop this tea party
protest, is to cut off the politician’s money and support.
If you keep throwing fits, tell people they are not welcome, and are generally
unpleasant, everyone will leave your house, and you will be a hermit.Welcome to the new hermit-republican partyThe rest of us are going to
work together to create a better America.
Yes, let it play out, and don't try to interfere either (since that would
just leave open the idea of Republican sabotage which is an easy argument to
make when they're actively trying to cut off funding to implement it).
So your rebuttal (No answer here) is You guys got free stuff?I stand
by my statement. I have received NO free stuff. My rates went up $10 buck which
is less than the last increase before ACA, but I don't mind because my
paying into a system which can help millions of Americans, feels much better
than paying to kill foreigners who have never attacked us.I
don't know who "The rest of us have to suffer." are but honestly
from your posts, you've been suffering since Obama was elected, do to
misinformation and hate radio at Hayden lake.
There is another choice. Let the ACA proceed, and help it succeed.
Republicans and Democrats have had months to work out differences. But
Republicans have refused, since March, to conference with the Democrats to iron
out differences in the budget resolutions which passed each chamber. Instead,
they calculated they could require Obama and the Democrats to agree to their
demands on Obamacare/ACA if they were up against the shutdown
"clock."There are now over 20 Republican lawmakers who are
willing to pass a "clean" continuing resolution to keep the govt open IF
Boehner allowed it to come for a vote in the House. But Boehner won't
allow a vote.
You know, apart from the uninformed anti-ACA vitriol, there's a sensible
core to this letter. No one, Right, Left or Center can say with 100% accuracy
what will happen in the future. We don't know what the impact of the ACA
will be. So stop all this posturing and foolish House symbolic votes, and
let's just see what happens. If it's a catastrophe, Republicans will
reap a significant electoral reward. If, as I think, the ACA works just fine,
well, we Dems will do fine. Gamaliel was right-let's sit back and see what
@MountanmanThe answer is simple: if you hate Obamacare so much, they
way out has already been laid (see Vermont) come up with a plan that covers and
helps more people for less. Write your State Legislature and have it become law
in your State.The whining game that has gone on for three and a half
years clearly isn't working, so I suggest you try the better plan method.
@ One old man and Happy Valley. You must be one of the fortunate ones who either
got an Obamacare waiver are will be getting a nice taxpayer subsidy. The rest of
us have to suffer. But no doubt you are worth it!
In summary, This is the end result of a Political Party obsessed and
focused as their single and sole objective for the past 5 years has been to make
Obama a one term President,instead of trying to make America -- ALL
of America, a better place."I hope he fails!" ~ Rush
Limbaugh, un-official spokesman and figurehead/dittohead for the Republican
bluecollar,Very true. The last Congress was the least productive
since the Civil War. What a distinction. But the current Congress is on track to
obliterate their predecessors' record. All due to tea party obstructionism.
They have no ideas, no solutions. They only know how to complain, criticize, and
sabotage. Anything to destroy a president they detest, even if they bring the
country down with him. Brilliant.
I turned on Faux News and Rush Limbaugh at the same time the other day. The
echoes are still ringing out. I can't escape them. Please, help me get out
of this echo chamber. It's driving me insane.
Mountanman, Keep on dreaming! Everything we were told by the Republicans about
the Affordable Care Act was a lie as is being demonstrated by actual results as
people begin to sign up and more new and better plans come from insurance
companies! More likely that your dreams of its failure will be that ACA will be
the complete victory of the Democratic party when ACA's favorable
consequences continue to roll in and Republicans are voted out of office in
droves! The momentum in that direction is already well on its way! But you keep
on believing in your fantasy!
1st it was the OFFENSIVE, un-funded wars in the Middle East.Then is
was the willful spying on citizens by the NSA.Continued with
Government handouts and bail outs to Corporations and Banks on WallsStreet, and now it's this - shutting down the Government by a minority
handful of radicals - without the majority, who are using extortion on
something; Passed by the House, Passed by the Senate, Signed by the President, and upheld by the Supreme Court.and IS
the Law of the Land.If they want something changed, the must follow
the Constitution.Everything I've been taught to be warned and
concerned about most in my LDS beliefs - the trampling of the
Constitution, and the Constitution Hanging by a Thread...I witness
happening right now.And most ironic, by those who think and say they are
upholding and defending the Constitution?How can you be MORE wrong?
Mountanman said: Everything we were told by the Democrats about Obamacare was a
lie as is being demonstrated by actual results! ...this comment
alone demonstrates the ignorance of a radio education.Children
covered by parent till 26...CheckPre-existing conditions...CheckDropping your coverage on a whim...CheckThere's 3 many more
could be found if you looked instead of listened.Everything was a
lie? All or none again?
A Supreme Court ruling and a convincing re-election by our outstanding President
Obama is not enough to quash the self-assured, unpatriotic, Self-righteousness.
There has never been a time when I have been more embarrassed to say I'm
from Utah! Mike Lee???? Really????
Republicans have more congressmen than the democrats. They have a majority in
the house. If they cave on this, the ACA will never be fixed or amended or
anything. It will roll forth crushing the US economy.The notion that
the republicans need more power it crazy. Obviously they now have the power to
do what is best for the country right now, and they are doing it. I hope they
keep doing it.The call for more power, by both parties, is the a
sick and unproductive pursuit. There is a great balance now, and both sides have
to work with each other and keep each other's power in check. They have to
try to sell their program to the people as being 'for the good of the
country' even though we know full well there are those who are really going
for the power and control. But at least those with a mind (for more than just
handouts) will be pressuring their congressmen to do what is right for the
country. It is a perfect situation, short of a benevolent
all-knowing all-loving God running the government.
@ One old man. Keep on dreaming! Everything we were told by the Democrats about
Obamacare was a lie as is being demonstrated by actual results! More likely that
your dreams of success will be that Obamacare will be the downfall of the
Democratic party when Obamacare consequences continue to roll in and Democrats
are voted out of office in droves! The momentum in that direction is already
well on its way! But you keep on believing in your fantasy!
You know what the true problem is for Republicans isn't the idea that
Obamacare will fail. They are more worried that it will work! Everything they do
centers around the failure of Obama! It is ridiculous! I am listening to all
these people scream about not being able to go to the doctor you want or not
being able to use the medicine you choose. They are talking about things that
have been going on for years! How does it become the fault of Obamacare? Our
health system sucks! Republicans seem to care little about how to change things!
Obama hasn't done bad considering how things were when he started! The
stimulus plan worked better than any Republican would admit. Face it,
Republicans know that it will not make them look good if Obamacare succeeds.
They don't want any kind of success for our president and they do whatever
they can to get in his way. isn't it great that it isn't working. I am
going to laugh when Obamacare isn't the disaster that Republicans say it
I wonder if this writer, who is apparently one more hapless victim of right wing
propaganda, will still be singing this tune in a few years when the ACA has had
time to get rolling and has proven to be popular with a majority of
Americans.Ted Cruz read Green Eggs and Ham during his fit of
filibusetering. Ironically a great choice. If you don't remember the main
idea of Green Eggs is simple: Try it, you just might like it.Americans should try it. We just might like it. And if we don't --
after a fair trial -- we can and should go to work LIKE ADULTS and make whatever
changes may be necessary.The current GOP hissy fit is simply
disgusting. Not at all unlike a toddler in a high chair refusing to try that
green stuff on her plate.
Brent ends up citing the responsible position for any adult watching the circus
in Washington. End the logjam and fix the law after your position is validated
in the next election(s). He spends most of the letter on partisan drivel, but no
matter since he comes to the correct conclusion: work with the Constitutional
system to accomplish what you want. What we have now is an attempt at a power
grab by people without the votes to make it happen legislatively. If
a survey were taken, less than 2% of the public would say they have ever heard
of the "Hastert Rule" and even less would know what it means. Yet that
rule is the real reason we face our fourth day of shutdown. The former
Republican speaker enforced a rule that no bill would be brought to the floor of
the House unless a majority of the majority would support it. The current
Speaker is adhering to that rule even as the knowledge is growing that if he
called a vote for a resolution to end the deadlock , it would pass...just not
with a majority of Republican votes.
Brent, you apparently are misinformed or choose to ignore historic facts. To
state that the Patients' Protection and Affordable Care Act is The
Presidents's only accomplishment is a convoluted opinion. The first two
years of Barack Obama's presidency were filled with many very substantial
accomplishments. Let me remind you of just a few: overhaul of the student loan
program which resulted in much lower interest rates for students, Wall Street
reform, eighteen tax cuts mostly aimed toward helping small businesses, economic
stimulus, end of war in Iraq and the beginning of troop drawdown in Afghanistan,
The Fair Pay Act which for the first time makes it federal law for women to be
paid the same as men in the same job...There's much more and oh
yeah.... a health and insurance reform was passed. Since the Tea Party
infiltrated Republicans in Congress not much has happened due to obstructionism.
Which version of Obamacare should Congress fund? The original one passed by
congress and judged to be constitutional by the SCOTUS or the versions that
Obama has illegally altered 19 times since then, granting waivers for some lucky
people but not for others? For many Americans this issue has gone well beyond
healthcare, its about rule of law and the power of the President. We don't
have a King or an Emperor in America who can change or alter the laws of the
land at his discretion, we have a President with constitutionally mandated
limits to his power. Obama has exceeded his powers and what is most
disconcerting is that so many American don't care or are so blinded by
their ideology that they won't see the danger. I am grateful for the
Republicans who care about rule of law and fairness since the Democrats have
demonstrated they do not!
Mr. Blair seems to live in the same fantasy world that Republicans on the Hill
are suffering from. And his assertion that the Democrats haven't
compromised is just as big a fantasy. From the FoxNews website, of all places,
we read:"One of the great mysteries of the current budget crisis
is why Republicans did not declare victory and pass a continuing resolution last
week funding government through the end of the year. "The
resolution that is at the root of this crisis already establishes
sequestration-level funding that President Obama and Senate Democrats have
repeatedly said is unacceptably low but which they were willing to swallow in
order to avoid a government shutdown. "That is the kind of
compromise that, under normal circumstances, Republicans should celebrate. They
got Democrats to accept a continuation of drastic, across-the-board spending
cuts that are anathema to the president and his base. And yet members of the Tea
Party, from Senator Ted Cruz to Congresswoman Michele Bachmann, have driven the
Republican Party so far though the looking glass that even a compromise that so
greatly favored their side has not been enough. "The truth shall
set you free.