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Published: Wednesday, Oct. 2 2013 12:00 a.m. MDT

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micawber
Centerville, UT

Other than petulance, why?

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

Obama's way or no way!

UtahBlueDevil
Durham, NC

Taylor..... Obamacare is in effect. Sorry if you missed the memo. But the ship has sailed. Now the option is course correction.

ECR
Burke, VA

"They have honorably stood their ground ..."

Nothing could be further from the truth. Mr. Lee and Mr. Chaffetz are part of the Congress that is usurping the legislative process set forth in the Constitution to get their own way. Actually they are acting like children in an office that drastically needs group-ups to lead our country. They didn't get their way in the battle over the ACA and so now they are using the political process to shutdown the government, costing all of us billions every day of the shut down and unfairly punishing federal workers who have done nothing but show up for work every day to do their jobs, just the opposite of what the Senator and Congressman have done.

If everyone was interested in being fair - honorable, the Speaker of the House would have presented a clean Continuing Resolution bill that would have passed the House with enough Republican and Democratic votes - a bipartisan approval, imagine that. But because that vote would not have passed with a majority of Republicans, the vote was never allowed, and now we have the shutdown. What's honorable about that? The whole premise of this letter is dishonorable.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Why delay it?

If you want it to FAIL miserably [which is indeed what you all want],
and show America what a lousy idea it is,
then wouldn't it be better to do it now, when things are off to such a rough start, sooner rather than later, instead of later and allowing more time for all the bugs to be worked out?

It's amazing, that even I can see this - and conservatives can't.

one vote
Salt Lake City, UT

The tea party is acting unchecked by disregarding enacted law, supreme rulings, and presidential elections. will they threaten the government and the economy until they get power, then what?

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

Read the Article 1, Section 7 of the Constitution before assigning blame. The House is required to originate all bills for revenue. The Senate can propose or concur, but it cannot originate a revenue bill, i.e., Harry Reid can add amendments to a revenue bill but he cannot subtract part of a revenue bill that the House passed because that "originates" a revenue bill. The President can sign the bill, refuse to sign it or let it become law without his signature.

The House has passed a budget. The House is done. The House represents the People. The People do not want ObamaCare. The People did not want ObamaCare when the bill was being voted on. The House has "checked" the power of the President. The President decided to shut down the government rather than accept the will of the People, as represented by the House. The Senate decided to "originate" a revenue bill rather than obey the Constitution.

The House needs to stand their ground. They have complied with their duty as stated in the Constitution.

T. Party
Pleasant Grove, UT

Obama has exempted many of his corporate and union and government friends from the demands of Obamacare. Why not the rest of us?

He has already compromised with himself on the employer mandate. Why is he so unable to compromise with Congress on the individual mandate?

Observe how much he really cares about the middle class. And observe how serious he really is about changing the way things are done in Washington.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

one vote,
Your fear of the Tea Party is irrational. How could the Tea Party ever take power? They are a small fraction.

And they aren't "threatening the government". They just want the government to move back to Constitutional guidelines (now if that's "Threatening the government"... we need to figure out why our government is so far out of bounds that asking them to get back to Constitutional guidelines is "threatening" to them).

If you want to fear a splinter-group... fear the uber-lefts "occupy wallstreet" folks. They are talking violent overthrow of the government and killing people and moving AWAY from Constitutional principles (with a cause focused on "class-warfare rhetoric" and "redistribution of wealth", which is the anti-thesis of Constitutional principles).

At least Tea Party people want to change back to Constitutional principles through meeting, talking, informing, and ultimately the election process (not violence). I've yet to hear a Tea Party person call for violence (though many nuts keep saying thats what they want). but the Occupy-Wallstreet people have come right out and said there needs to be a violent uprising (an "American Arab-spring").

ECR
Burke, VA

"At least Tea Party people want to change back to Constitutional principles through....the election process..."

We had an election and the ACA supporters won. Then the ACA won in the Supreme Court. That is the Constitutional way. Not holding the government and over a million people hostage with their jobs, their livelihood. And on top of it all this shutdown is actually costing the taxpayers rather than saving them money. The Constitutional way would be to have held an open vote in the House on the clean CR that was sent back by the Senate. Evidence has shown that process would have passed, but with a Republican minority. So to save face, the Speaker chose another path that has led us to where we are today.

The ACA won in Congress and is now in process, despite the shutdown. If people want to modify it or throw it out, why not do that through the same manner in which it came about - the legislative, or Constitutional, way?

Samson01
S. Jordan, UT

The irony of some of the posts is rich.

Wasn't DOMA passed and signed into law?

Did that stop opponents from fighting against what they thought was unjust and wrong?

Of course not!

The ACA is in the mind of many of us along the same lines. It is bad law. Bad policy.

We fight against it.

T. Party
Pleasant Grove, UT

@ECR "holding...hostage"

Can you not see that Obama and the Senate are holding the country hostage every bit as much as anyone else? Why won't they compromise?

Shaun
Sandy, UT

@T. Party. Obama has not exempted unions of anything. I know this because I belong to a union and it has been discussed how obamacare is going to change things.

Ultra Bob
Cottonwood Heights, UT

As a liberal American non-business oriented soldier of the American people, I appreciate the only representative that I have in our national government, President Obama.

The corrupted growth of business in our government has gone on too long, It is time to make government be what it’s supposed to be, the protector of the American people. The corrupted government(s) is the most dangerous and wicked of all the enemies we face.

The American people can overcome these problems if they can establish government by the people through their voting and throwing off the chains put on their freedom of doing so. Only as we move toward Democracy can there ever be government by the people.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

ECR,
What I meant is... that the Tea Party approach to governmental change is through getting people elected who support Constitutional Principles (not by a violent uprising or killing the rich).

I'm not talking about just the ACA or tactics politicians use once in office. The focus of the Tea Party is to get more people elected who agree with them (not killing the people in office and the 1%, like the uber-left occupy movement).

How individuals (like Lee) decide to act when in office is a different topic. The Tea Party is mostly about getting people they like elected. Not so much about controlling everything they do after they are elected. They try to elect people they can trust to act in accordance with the Constitution so they don't have to worry about every vote they cast, or every bill they write. It doesn't always work, but it's better than the parties that require lockstep marching clones to just repeat the party line.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

@Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

The House needs to stand their ground. They have complied with their duty as stated in the Constitution.
7:58 a.m. Oct. 2, 2013

=========

and
The Senate has done their duty and has rejected it as stated in the Constitution.
and
even IF the Senate had approved,
the President has already said he would reject it [Veto],
and their aren't enough Votes to over rule that Veto.

per the Constitution.

Ultra Bob
Cottonwood Heights, UT

2 bits.

The threat of taking government back 250 years is greater than any other threats that our government has ever faced. Simply because no other part of our world is capable or willing to go back to the way it was 250 years ago.

As for the Tea Party’s methods, you have to look at who they are. They are the business oriented people who have control over most aspects of American business. Their actions to defeat President Obama are not reported in the business controlled media and include the efforts to force religious beliefs on workers, withhold business growth and even lay off workers to punish the Americans for electing a black president. They don’t need to use violence, their power and money gets others to do their dirty work.

ECR
Burke, VA

Ultra Bob - I hate to disagree with you because I agree with the general premise of your statement. But you are not exactly right when you state that the "...the Tea Party’s methods, you have to look at who they are. They are the business oriented people who have control over most aspects of American business.'

There is a lengthy article in today's Washington Post pointing out that the Chamber of Commerce has written a letter to the Republican leadership begging them to pass a clean CR and avoid the shutdown. The Chamber was very involved in the fight against the ACA - they fought the good fight in their opinion - but now have accepted that the nation has to move on and deal with the hand we have. Likewise, the business community - the Chamber - has supported Immigration Reform and the Farm Bill, but the Tea Party has fought them every step of the way, bringing the process to a dead stop. The Tea Party are nothing more than arrogant children who haven't got their way through legitimate means and are now using unethical tactics to get their way. They are not supported by business interests either.

J Thompson
SPRINGVILLE, UT

Those who know little about the Constitution keep telling us that the Senate has upheld ObamaCare and that the President has upheld ObamaCare. They either don't know or they choose to ignore the fact that the House represents the people. The Senate represents the States. The President represents the nation to other nations.

The People have told their Representatives that they don't want ObamaCare.

The States have told their Senators that they don't want ObamaCare.

The House has followed the wishes of the People.

The Senate has rejected the wishes of the States.

The President ignores everybody. He thinks that he can dicate to use that we must pay a tax. He has no power to levy taxes. That power rests with the House. The House has rejected Obama's tax. The People have rejected Obama's tax. The States have rejected Obama's tax. Only the Democrats in the Senate want to force that tax on us, regardless of the will of the People or the will of the States.

Shaun
Sandy, UT

@J Thompson. Apparently the states have not told their senators they do not want Obamacare because the democrats still hold a majority. They are directly elected which reflects the will of the people in the state.

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