Published: Wednesday, Oct. 2 2013 12:00 a.m. MDT
Other than petulance, why?
Obama's way or no way!
Taylor..... Obamacare is in effect. Sorry if you missed the memo. But the
ship has sailed. Now the option is course correction.
"They have honorably stood their ground ..."Nothing could be
further from the truth. Mr. Lee and Mr. Chaffetz are part of the Congress that
is usurping the legislative process set forth in the Constitution to get their
own way. Actually they are acting like children in an office that drastically
needs group-ups to lead our country. They didn't get their way in the
battle over the ACA and so now they are using the political process to shutdown
the government, costing all of us billions every day of the shut down and
unfairly punishing federal workers who have done nothing but show up for work
every day to do their jobs, just the opposite of what the Senator and
Congressman have done.If everyone was interested in being fair -
honorable, the Speaker of the House would have presented a clean Continuing
Resolution bill that would have passed the House with enough Republican and
Democratic votes - a bipartisan approval, imagine that. But because that vote
would not have passed with a majority of Republicans, the vote was never
allowed, and now we have the shutdown. What's honorable about that? The
whole premise of this letter is dishonorable.
Why delay it?If you want it to FAIL miserably [which is indeed what
you all want], and show America what a lousy idea it is, then
wouldn't it be better to do it now, when things are off to such a rough
start, sooner rather than later, instead of later and allowing more time for all
the bugs to be worked out?It's amazing, that even I can see
this - and conservatives can't.
The tea party is acting unchecked by disregarding enacted law, supreme rulings,
and presidential elections. will they threaten the government and the economy
until they get power, then what?
Read the Article 1, Section 7 of the Constitution before assigning blame. The
House is required to originate all bills for revenue. The Senate can propose or
concur, but it cannot originate a revenue bill, i.e., Harry Reid can add
amendments to a revenue bill but he cannot subtract part of a revenue bill that
the House passed because that "originates" a revenue bill. The
President can sign the bill, refuse to sign it or let it become law without his
signature.The House has passed a budget. The House is done. The
House represents the People. The People do not want ObamaCare. The People did
not want ObamaCare when the bill was being voted on. The House has
"checked" the power of the President. The President decided to shut
down the government rather than accept the will of the People, as represented by
the House. The Senate decided to "originate" a revenue bill rather than
obey the Constitution.The House needs to stand their ground. They
have complied with their duty as stated in the Constitution.
Obama has exempted many of his corporate and union and government friends from
the demands of Obamacare. Why not the rest of us?He has already
compromised with himself on the employer mandate. Why is he so unable to
compromise with Congress on the individual mandate?Observe how much
he really cares about the middle class. And observe how serious he really is
about changing the way things are done in Washington.
one vote,Your fear of the Tea Party is irrational. How could the Tea
Party ever take power? They are a small fraction.And they
aren't "threatening the government". They just want the
government to move back to Constitutional guidelines (now if that's
"Threatening the government"... we need to figure out why our government
is so far out of bounds that asking them to get back to Constitutional
guidelines is "threatening" to them).If you want to fear a
splinter-group... fear the uber-lefts "occupy wallstreet" folks. They
are talking violent overthrow of the government and killing people and moving
AWAY from Constitutional principles (with a cause focused on "class-warfare
rhetoric" and "redistribution of wealth", which is the anti-thesis
of Constitutional principles). At least Tea Party people want to
change back to Constitutional principles through meeting, talking, informing,
and ultimately the election process (not violence). I've yet to hear a Tea
Party person call for violence (though many nuts keep saying thats what they
want). but the Occupy-Wallstreet people have come right out and said there
needs to be a violent uprising (an "American Arab-spring").
"At least Tea Party people want to change back to Constitutional principles
through....the election process..."We had an election and the
ACA supporters won. Then the ACA won in the Supreme Court. That is the
Constitutional way. Not holding the government and over a million people
hostage with their jobs, their livelihood. And on top of it all this shutdown
is actually costing the taxpayers rather than saving them money. The
Constitutional way would be to have held an open vote in the House on the clean
CR that was sent back by the Senate. Evidence has shown that process would have
passed, but with a Republican minority. So to save face, the Speaker chose
another path that has led us to where we are today.The ACA won in
Congress and is now in process, despite the shutdown. If people want to modify
it or throw it out, why not do that through the same manner in which it came
about - the legislative, or Constitutional, way?
The irony of some of the posts is rich. Wasn't DOMA passed and
signed into law?Did that stop opponents from fighting against what
they thought was unjust and wrong?Of course not! The
ACA is in the mind of many of us along the same lines. It is bad law. Bad
policy. We fight against it.
@ECR "holding...hostage"Can you not see that Obama and the
Senate are holding the country hostage every bit as much as anyone else? Why
won't they compromise?
@T. Party. Obama has not exempted unions of anything. I know this because I
belong to a union and it has been discussed how obamacare is going to change
As a liberal American non-business oriented soldier of the American people, I
appreciate the only representative that I have in our national government,
President Obama.The corrupted growth of business in our government
has gone on too long, It is time to make government be what it’s supposed
to be, the protector of the American people. The corrupted government(s) is the
most dangerous and wicked of all the enemies we face. The American
people can overcome these problems if they can establish government by the
people through their voting and throwing off the chains put on their freedom of
doing so. Only as we move toward Democracy can there ever be government by the
ECR,What I meant is... that the Tea Party approach to governmental change
is through getting people elected who support Constitutional Principles (not by
a violent uprising or killing the rich).I'm not talking about
just the ACA or tactics politicians use once in office. The focus of the Tea
Party is to get more people elected who agree with them (not killing the people
in office and the 1%, like the uber-left occupy movement).How
individuals (like Lee) decide to act when in office is a different topic. The
Tea Party is mostly about getting people they like elected. Not so much about
controlling everything they do after they are elected. They try to elect
people they can trust to act in accordance with the Constitution so they
don't have to worry about every vote they cast, or every bill they write.
It doesn't always work, but it's better than the parties that require
lockstep marching clones to just repeat the party line.
@Mike RichardsSouth Jordan, UtahThe House needs to stand their
ground. They have complied with their duty as stated in the Constitution.7:58 a.m. Oct. 2, 2013========= andThe Senate
has done their duty and has rejected it as stated in the Constitution.andeven IF the Senate had approved, the President has already said
he would reject it [Veto], and their aren't enough Votes to over rule
that Veto.per the Constitution.
2 bits.The threat of taking government back 250 years is greater
than any other threats that our government has ever faced. Simply because no
other part of our world is capable or willing to go back to the way it was 250
years ago. As for the Tea Party’s methods, you have to look
at who they are. They are the business oriented people who have control over
most aspects of American business. Their actions to defeat President Obama are
not reported in the business controlled media and include the efforts to force
religious beliefs on workers, withhold business growth and even lay off workers
to punish the Americans for electing a black president. They don’t need
to use violence, their power and money gets others to do their dirty work.
Ultra Bob - I hate to disagree with you because I agree with the general premise
of your statement. But you are not exactly right when you state that the
"...the Tea Party’s methods, you have to look at who they are. They
are the business oriented people who have control over most aspects of American
business.'There is a lengthy article in today's Washington
Post pointing out that the Chamber of Commerce has written a letter to the
Republican leadership begging them to pass a clean CR and avoid the shutdown.
The Chamber was very involved in the fight against the ACA - they fought the
good fight in their opinion - but now have accepted that the nation has to move
on and deal with the hand we have. Likewise, the business community - the
Chamber - has supported Immigration Reform and the Farm Bill, but the Tea Party
has fought them every step of the way, bringing the process to a dead stop. The
Tea Party are nothing more than arrogant children who haven't got their way
through legitimate means and are now using unethical tactics to get their way.
They are not supported by business interests either.
Those who know little about the Constitution keep telling us that the Senate has
upheld ObamaCare and that the President has upheld ObamaCare. They either
don't know or they choose to ignore the fact that the House represents the
people. The Senate represents the States. The President represents the nation
to other nations. The People have told their Representatives that
they don't want ObamaCare.The States have told their Senators
that they don't want ObamaCare.The House has followed the
wishes of the People.The Senate has rejected the wishes of the
States.The President ignores everybody. He thinks that he can
dicate to use that we must pay a tax. He has no power to levy taxes. That
power rests with the House. The House has rejected Obama's tax. The
People have rejected Obama's tax. The States have rejected Obama's
tax. Only the Democrats in the Senate want to force that tax on us, regardless
of the will of the People or the will of the States.
@J Thompson. Apparently the states have not told their senators they do not want
Obamacare because the democrats still hold a majority. They are directly elected
which reflects the will of the people in the state.
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