@Mike in Cedar City:"But one thing I don't agree is his
suggestion that single payer systems are somehow socialized medicine. Government
paying the bills hardly makes for socialism."It may not be
socialism, but it's a giant step in that direction."For the
county to turn to socialized medicine, the government would have to be far more
involved."Don't worry, it will happen. For example, the
government will soon tell you what healthcare you are entitled to... especially
as you age. And whether you will be able to live or just go home and take a
painkiller before you die (Obama's own words - roughly).@glendenbg:"Creating a public insurance option, as for example,
could be one of those tweeks (Medicare for all rather than COBRA or
Medicaid)."True. And, as to Medicare, many doctors will not
accept patients on Medicare... because the government tells the doctor how much
of his/her fee will be allowed."The ACA is, at a minimum, a
serious attempt to get medical costs under control."We know, we
know... See above.
@Daniel Leifker:"I blame both parties and a legislative process that
fails to prevent stalemates like this."The founding Fathers set
this government up to be run by men and women of good will who would work
together for the good of the nation. Harry Reid's intransigence is the
antithesis of what they set up.@Doug P:"There is no more
debate or negotiations. It is the law of the land..."Immigration
Laws are also the laws of the land... Laws that guy in the White House
deliberately chooses to ignore. Ask yourself, why is he not enforcing those
laws?"... and the Supreme Court put its iron stamp on it as
well..."Not so. What the Court did was affirmed that the
government cannot require anyone to buy anything. And the Court ruled that the
government can levy/collect taxes in lieu of 'penalties.' We already
knew that."We have in Congress a group of extremists who are
needlessly peddling doom and refuse to negotiate."You're
correct. Harry Reid has stated over and over that the House funding bill is dead
on arrival unless it had funding for Obamacare.
@Truthseeker2:"As expected, the Senate voted down the House's
latest version of a temporary budget bill Monday afternoon in a straight
party-line vote."Per the US Constitution, the Senate can't
vote down any funding bill. All that's allowed is to accept or amend the
House funding bill."Okay--so we're just waiting for the
House to come up with a bill that will pass in the Senate."No,
no. We're waiting for the Senate to approve the House bill or amend it.
If the Senate has issues, the two houses are obliged to sit down and come to an
agreement."The ball is in the 'House.'"The ball is in the Senate."Republicans own the shutdown and
everybody knows it."The Democrat controlled Executive Branch
(White House) is who's shutting down the government. Because the
government is controlled and operated by the Executive Branch. The White House
is who's giving the shutdown orders. They say what to shut down. And
they're picking agencies to shut down that will look the most egregious to
the public... such as the War Veteran's memorial exhibit, Washington Mall,
and the national parks.
@VickieB:"Why is he (Obama) allowed to change things...?"Because he's an autocrat... A tzar in his own mind. He doesn't need
rules and laws. In fact, if there are laws that stand in his way, he simply
ignores them... such as the immigration laws. With his great socialistic
visionary capacity he can see millions of Democrat votes out there as they march
across our borders illegally. And he's not alone. Most Democrats see the
same vision. We have in front of us the very process that will eventually sink
our nation and a man in our White House pushing it along.
I love when professors talk theory without understanding the real world. How is
it fostering competition when three major health insurance companies are pulling
out of California. All of their insureds are losing thier health insurance and
now must go purchase health insurance on the exchanges at a much higher
price. As health care premiums skyrocket, more businesses are
dropping health insurance. Not only is the $ 2000 penalty cheaper than
insurance ( it is about 1/4 what I pay for my employees), there is an easy way
around the $ 2000, simply cut hours to 29 a week. How many people are going to
lose thier employer based insurance and then have to buy it from the
exchangesnon what they earn on 29 hours a week.Even the unions that
supported Obamacare are now realizing the real world implications of this bill
and are calling for its repeal. Of course, I don't have space
to go into the medical device tax's effectbon jobs and the added costs to
Poor people, being human, will prefer to have as much health care services as
rich people. But there are a few rich people and a lot of poor. So the expense
will balloon; and the non-poor will be faced with the bill. Am I missing some
sort of intervening magic?
Yes Obamacare is the law of the land and we will probably never get rid of it.
However, if you watch how social security has been run you will see the template
for Obamacare. Here are a few facts about SS. 1. The fund is broke. All the
money that you paid in is not in a lock box. 2. It is a ponzi scheme similar
to Bernie Madoffs ponzi scheme which means that those who receive are paid from
those who are paying in now not from their original investment. In the SS trust
fund there is a ledger of IOU's from the General Fund saying that they have
spend all the SS funds and they they owe the SS fund trillions of dollars. The
only way that Obamacare will work is through massive tax increase and/or massive
printing of money, there is no other option. Either way we know that Social
Security is Broke. The post office is broke. Medicare is broke. Amtrak is
Broke (runs on subsidies) What business can the federal gov't run without
running it into the ground?
@Tators:It doesn't take a genius to discern that this was a
commentary piece (i.e., it is intended to come from a particular POV), and for
some of us, seeing that POV in a DesNews published commentary is certainly a
breath of fresh air given the kind of crazy-train stuff exemplified in most of
these comments. Note that the professor's viewpoint is simply a moderate,
pragmatic one, which must look quite lefty I suppose when one is perched so far
out there on the extreme right.
Re: walkrrrr - "Obamacare resolves all this."Really? My
employer-subsidized health insurance premiums went up quite a bit last year. A
letter from the company's HR department stated that it was because of the
early initial effects of the ACA. Then, just two months ago, that same big
international company I had worked for for more than 33 years laid off 26% of
its US employees ... including me. So, now I am living off of, and paying for
this mandated health insurance, from my retirement savings. And, with the
Federal Reserve holding interest rates to near zero, my savings accounts are
paying something like 0.1% interest, about enough interest each month to buy a
couple of hamburgers.
Why use the term "Obamacare" so much in the article, I like to think of
it as Romneycare, he was the pioneer in this, he should get more credit.
Why doesn't the Dnews have the honesty to call it the Affordable Care Act
in the headline? This wasn't Obama's first plan, this plan was created
and presented by conservatives.
Makes no difference, or does it?1.) Fund the Government.2.)
Fund the Debt Ceiling.3.) Fill in the Blank(s). _____________________
Obama Care is only here to stay if it reduces health care costs and it is hard
to see how it could fail to do the opposite. If you had a cancer that had grown
to 18% of your body weight, you would be dead. Our economy is on life support
because of the burden imposed by our overpriced healthcare.
Like it or not...this is what learning and growing in democracy allows...you try
something but later see its going to cause trouble...you suspend it until you
can thoroughly examine ALL the consequences...this allowed....why are you acting
as if the republicans are doing something wrong...your premise completely
ignores how democracy works....all the republicans want is a one year
extension...the same one year extension Obama gave to big businesses....give it
to them and if they find out something is really horribly wrong with Obama care
then it SHOULD be exposed....if they don't find anything...it will shut
them up....My God,like it or not, Republicans ARE part of America and personally
attacking them and trying to sway public opinion by closing places like the
Lincoln memorial, which by the way has NEVER EVER been closed before during
scores of government shut downs, is at best Petty and your efforts to punish the
people so the people will turn on the republicans isn't working....small
minded tactics.....where are are leaders?
My hunch is - Republicans will SAY they will repeal Obamacare for the next 50
years, and then, even when they control the House, the Senate, AND the
WhiteHouse, and even appointing Supreme Court judges....will still do NOTHING
about it to change anything.Just like they have with using abortion
as a political Red Herring to win votes for the last 40 years.Nothing...
@shaunWhat is it you think you pay for that you don't use? The
only things you pay for that you don't use (maybe) are government social
programs. This is another social program. Interesting that you think
"society thing"s gives you the right to force people to do certain
things and to buy certain things.
I'm dismayed, but not really surprised, by the number of lierals who
can't or won't tell the difference between the House of
Representative's exercising its Constitutional power of the purse, and
either insurrection (Mr. Kayser) or some kind of constitutional violation.Typo entirely intended.
@yes Obamacare......Yes I have been to the exchanges......and I like the entire
state of Louisana failed to get access! Not one person is registered today in
Obamacare here! So that looks like a NO to Obamacare! Takers vrs. Makers!
@tators. Don't buy insurance and pay the tax. There are plenty of things I
get taxed for but I do not use. Why should I be forced to pay for something I do
not use. Maybe it is a Society thing.
@ Kent DeForrest:What exactly are the Republicans doing that is
against Constitutional law... and how are such actions unconstitutional? They
are doing the same things in Congress that ultimately allowed women to vote in
this country. @ Owl:That is why Republicans want to
defer Obamacare for a year... so the obvious flaws can be worked out before
people are then forced to buy in. @ NC Rick:The article
wasn't really such a breath of fresh air, since the stink of being so
biased was evident. The other side of the coin was not examined... which is
something necessary for any article to be good.
Single Payer is preferable when the single payer is the person getting the
service. Insurance, is a type of "socialism" in that it collects money
from the masses to pay the claims of the few. Obama did a market grab by
requiring those who chose not to be insured to purchase insurance or be fined
(oops, I mean "taxed").Wake up America, the train is coming
down the tracks and it ain't the Freedom Train.
Was DOMA the law of the land? When the executive department chose not to defend
it in the courts, but rather to attack it, was the executive department
defending "the law of the land?" Did the Supreme Court uphold the
constitution when it twisted the logic of legal precedent and rules of law to
reach the conclusion that the ACA was "the law of the land?"I believe that Senator Lee is correct when he says that he is trying to
prevent a train wreck. The truth of this article is that once established - no
matter how horrible the long term consequences - it is hard to get people off of
the train. ACA is a disaster. Trying to defend the entire atrocity by pointing
out the logic of minor provisions is twisted logic.
"what Obamacare really does is set regulations on the health care insurance
industry that did not exist previously"; if that is true, why has Obama said
he ultimatly wants a single payer plan? Government being the payer! Which
servers two purposes - government in charge and insurance companies out of
business/employees out of jobs. Can't wait
Thank-you, Professor Davis, for your very well-stated commentary. Your
reasonableness is a breath of fresh air, particularly as it resides on the pages
of Deseret News. While I think a single-payer system would be far superior to
ACA on every level, I agree that it is the law of the land now and we should all
work to make it better. Maybe in the future making it better will be to move
toward a single payer system (e.g., perhaps re-inserting the government option
that had to be taken out in order for ACA to pass).
I am most concerned that neither party is working to eliminate the flaws in the
ACA. Republicans want to throw the baby out with the bath water and Democrats
are committed to ignore the problems. For both sides it's either all or
nothing. The rigid political posturing on both sides is antithetical to a better
It's interesting to see how the conservatives are trying to twist the
Republican sabotage of the constitutional system of government into the
Democrat's fault. If they succeed, we will see constitutional government
come to an end in this country. What will it be next? Give us a national gun
registry or we'll shut the government down. Repeal Roe vs. Wade or
we'll shut the government down. Outlaw same-sex marriage or we'll shut
the government down. Doesn't really matter which side is blackmailing the
other and holding the American people hostage. If this method of
"governance" succeeds, you can kiss America goodbye. Thanks, Mike Lee.
And you claim to be a constitutional scholar? You just flunked your biggest
@ Shaun:If it looks like a duck, smells like duck and quacks like a
duck... But regardless of whether Obamacare is technically socialistic or not,
the majority of people in this country have now started seeing it for it is, and
are now opposed to it. There is a good reason for that. BTW: What
exactly do you call it when people are forced by the federal government to
purchase a privately sold product... regardless if the they want it, need it, or
can even afford it? It may not follow the exact definition of socialism, but
it's certainly socialistic in nature.
Outstanding editorial. And as a supporter of Obamacare, I'm also aware of
its flaws. But it's one thing to say 'it's a bill that will help
millions of Americans, but one with a few minor problems,' and to say
'worst bill ever! Hitler, Stalin, Mao!'
Obamacare is only "here to stay" so long as a majority of the people
want it to stay. Davis is making the usual "argumentam ad
inevitableum": "We won, get used to it, you'll never beat us, you
might as well stay home."
If we put richard davis's "logic" into our arguments then obamacare
should have never come into being at all. Rember it was defeated almost 20 years
ago when clinton tried it. Based on that socialized healthcare advocates should
have just given up based on richards "logic". You see
richard appears to believe that just because obamacare now exists we should all
just accept it and move on, but how come when clintoncare was defeated the
richard davis's of the world didn't just accept it and move on? Why
did they come back, and keep on coming back, until they got obamacare passed?
And why isn't richard davis editorializing and telling them they should
have just accepted it and quit trying?Double standards in support of
your own biases probably are not the smartest things to put on public display
Will someone please make Mike Lee read this article.
@tator. Look up the definition of socialism. Obamacare does not fit the
description of socialism. Even the leader of the American socialist party says
Obama is not a socialist.As far as the government is in control of
my healthcare choices I do not see that. I can still go see the same family
doctor i have always seen and I can still see my dentist or go to the hospitals
that are in my network. This may all change but I think people are seriously
over reacting to Obamacare.@bandersen. I do not think I am ignorant.
The definition of Socialism is the state owns the means and production. The
government doesn't own either. I'm compelled to have
liability insurance on my cars that i have. I know I have a choice not to drive
but in regards to compelling people to have health insurance I think it is the
same principle except everybody will need healthcare at some point.Maybe they should of done test programs with obamacare in different states to
test it out. But that would never happen politically.
@ Yes_Obamacare:Now you're being silly. The top rated comments
on this article are mixed. It's usually the left-wingers who jump on board
first and so garner a few more "likes". But even then, hardly any of
the top rated comments are more than single digits. Consequently, it represents
hardly anything at all compared to the general populous. What is
notable is that not so long ago, a majority of people did favor and want
Obamacare. But has time goes on and more things come to light about it, more and
more people are now opposing. There is a reason that many of those who initially
thought Obamacare was a good idea (and perhaps a few ideas behind it are), are
now opposed to it. In fact a solid majority of the entire country is now opposed
to it, as shown in literally every major recent poll. It has already
cost thousands of jobs, turned tens of thousands into part-time jobs and upped
the costs of anything now available to many others. The red-tape behind it is a
real cost killer. And now the CBO has said it will cost twice it's original
Finally, a reasonable article on Obamacare. Thanks
It's interesting that while a handful are still screaming that
"Americans don't want Obamacare!", the top rated comments on this
article are from those who are in favor of it.
@yes_obamacareYou sound incredibly desperate. Most people that want
to live off of the sweat and wealth of others are desperate.
@Windsor - according to the Economic Policy Institute, the percentage of
Americans covered by employer sponsored insurnace fell from 69% in 2000 to 58%
in 2011. The steepest decline occurred during the Great Recession (not
surprising). Liljenquist's editorial was not entirely correct.
Current regulations allow employers to be fined $2000 per covered member, not
per employee; a family of five will easily cost an employee $10,000. While
total insurance payments might be more, employees contribute to their insurance
and employers are able to deduct the cost of insurance on their taxes so the
math won't be simple. Employers can avoid the fine by offering insurance
to employees only, not their families, which greatly reduces insurance costs.When it is up and running, I suspect the ACA will work well enough. As
with any major legislation, it will require adjustments and tweeks over time.
Creating a public insurance option, as for example, could be one of those tweeks
(Medicare for all rather than COBRA or Medicaid). The ACA is, at a minimum, a
serious attempt to get medical costs under control. It's something
we've needed as a nation for decades.
catseye, do you even realize that YOU TOO can now CHOOSE from MANY plans that were not prevously available to you?Daniel Leifker, whomever
first put forth the plan of shutting down the government in an illegal
attempt to get what they wanted by bypassing the checks and balances created by
our Founding Fathers is at fault for screwing our economy and "taking
the nation into default to stop Obamacare". Which side was that
again?bandersen, AGAIN...educate yourself before spouting. You can
now CHOOSE from MANY plans, and MANY peoples' costs are going DOWN
DOWN DOWN. (Like the Republican party, but that's a difefernt story).
Were you this irate when they told you that if you drive a car you must have liability inurance so the rest of us don't get screwed whern YOU
crash? Also again, if the Repos could get a better plan together and get
enough votes to make itpass, nothing is stopping them from doing that. But
they haven't succeeded.Tekakaromatagi, if it turns out to be
such a failure, the people will elect Republicans next time around and
will be changed by LEGAL means, not by extortion.
Obamacare was never intended to foster a functioning healthcare system. It had
precisely one aim: to create enough inertia to make it an easy matter to arrive
at a full-blown single-payer system. Create the basis for government control
(preventing any backward "slippage" toward free markets), let the system
fail, and then make the jump to national healthcare. Before long, we too will
be rationing care and importing most of our doctors from the developing world.
TRUTH, when you say "When you have a party who is acting I contrary to the
will of the people ...anarchy will arise!", would that include Republicans
drawing on taxpayer's money for refusing to do their jobs and screwing a
great many working people out of money which is OWED to them for doing
government work? Wrecking the US economy which *was* on the verge of a recovery?
Do you honestly believe "the will of the people" is to pay these pigs
for nothing, and allow a great percentage of taxpaying citizens to die or go
bankrupt due to insurance companies's refusal to cover them, or
monopolistic extortions, using our HEALTH as a commodity to pad their fat
wallets? Do you even have the first CLUE about what Obamacare actually does?
have you gone to your state's exchange yet to see what tax crefdits YOU may
even be eligible for and what options YOU now have for coverage?
Neuro1, that hasn't occurred yet. I wonder why that would be?**********************************Shaun, very true. However, what
your insurer is not telling you is that you don't *have* to do anything,
but if you sign up for that same plan through the exchange, you may then be
eligible for tax credits to be applied to your premiums, (depending on your
incoime level) so the same plan you're already on could cost you
substantially less.**********************************Clark D, that's what happens in an election. The votes are counted and
only one candidate wins. Yours lost.**********************************bandersen, your comment is the height
of ignorance. Obamacare gives people the RIGHT to CHOOSE from MANY health care
plans which were not previously available to them. Why don't you educate
yourself before posting nonsense?
@ Shaun:It is socialism because the government will now be
controlling the major decisions of people's healthcare, and also using
Obamacare to redistribute people's wealth. Take from the haves and give it
to the have nots, who then lose some of their incentive to push forward.
Socialism.@ One Vote:Reality shock is when people
finally find out the full extent of the train-wreck that Obamacare is in process
of creating.@ Roland K:Or president Lincoln
could've been well been addressing current day Democrats, who now refuse to
compromise concerning a terrible bill that the majority of the people no longer
want. Obama is picking and choosing who now needs to follow the law. @ Doug P:Yes, it's the law of the land. But slavery once was,
too. Thank goodness there was continued debate then... just like there needs to
be now. Many of those who initially fought slavery were also called extremists.
Bad laws should be fought and changed. And to those who think Obama
is funded... Not anymore. The Congressional Budget Office announced recently
that Obamacare is going to cost at least twice as much as originally thought.
It's now massively under-funded.
So some say you cannot beat them so lets just roll over and make the best of it.
Is that the American way. The nation as a whole say that Obma won so we need to
just go along with them so Richard says that writes articles in the Deseret. The
election of presidency in the last election would have been different if the
republican party had not frowned on the fact that Romney was a Mormon. The
nation is split almost down the middle as to what the values should be in this
country. So, even though he won the election we still have our values to protect
and I personally appreciate those that are willing to fade the heat in the
battle against Obama Care or this socialist program as I see it.
When you have a party who is acting I contrary to the will of the people
...anarchy will arise! Obamacare is a disaster and will eventually be unwound
if it doesn't unwind itself due to its own failures........Takers vrs.
To spin the ACA as not Socialistic is the height of ignorance. If you take away
the right of someone to choose their health care; If everyone is compelled to
have insurance; then what is it, if not Socialism? Free Enterprise? ACA is
nothing more or less than the welding of government and big business. The
common man is the loser. For those who want to drag the Red herring across the
map of ignorance with arguments such as: 'internet...FCC airwaves,
etc.' is foolish talk. Go study the writings of Ezra Taft Benson if you
want to understand his perspective about socialism. Most citizens are such
drones they will gladly fit into the slot that government wants to place them,
ACA just the latest example. Those who think that the ACA created more freedom
and didn't damage other segments of our 'free' society are
VickieB, because Congress is on strike.
windsor, when you say "We have employee sponsored health care now", that
does not include 1.those of us who DON'T. Many employers
currently do NOT offer any group plan, and you have not considered 2.those who are self-employed or who are owners of small businesses, who are
not required to offer a group plan, so 3.their emnployees do not
have access to a group plan, and not to mention 4.the many who are
unemployed now (and the multitudes more thanks to the Republican walkout!), who
do not qualify for COBRA coverage, or 5.the many people who have
"preexisting conditions" such as being a cancer survivor, having had a
miscarriage, or having taken a prescription medication at some point in their
life.So it's a small percentage of lucky people who currently
have access to coverage through their employer, and the coverage is frequently
offered to the employee ONLY, and is frequently still not affordable, as
employers whop DO offer a plan are only required to pay in a small minimum
towards the employee's premium.Obamacare resolves all this.
RDD1931, it actually does cover all mental health and counseling. But apparently
most of the wingnuts haven't done their homework enough to know that yet.
@banderson. It is not socialism because the state does not own anything. The
government doesn't own the insurance companies and the government
doesn't own the hospitals.As far as the lies that you stated I
haven't experienced any of those yet. I can still keep my insurance, I can
still go to the doctors in my network, and my cost have not gone up yet. This
may all change but I think you may have jumped the gun with those accusations. I
even got a letter from my insurance company stating I didn't have to do
anything because I was covered.
RDD1931, just like "Romney 2012", right?
. . . until it get repealed.
I hope Richard Davis monitors comments to his story as I have a question.I will FREELY admit I have NO IDEA WHO TO BELIEVE in regard to
Obamacare.Will it be a train wreck?Will it be all
wonderful?We have employee sponsored health care now, but have I
have seen several insinuations that big employers see $$ to be made by dropping
that and paying the penalty.From a DesNews story by Dan Liljenquist
Sept 26: "employers who don't provide health care insurance
will pay the federal government a “tax” or penalty, beginning in
2015..up to $2,000 per employee.Employers, whose finance personnel are
usually pretty good at math, are realizing that they can save a bunch of money
if they (1) stop providing health care to their employees, (2) push their
employees to the federal insurance exchanges, and (3) pay the per employee
“tax.” Since most companies that currently offer health insurance as
part of their benefits package pay a whole lot more than $2,000 per employee per
year for health care, the economic incentives to push their employees to
the...subsidized exchanges are quite powerful." Your thoughts
Wow! What a one sided-biased editorial.Ignoring the points being
made by those who disagree does not make them wrong, nor will it make them go
away. Taking care of the poor is a good idea, but everybody can see that this
is fiscally unsustainable. Cost estimates have already quadrupled, and their
have been no ideas brought forth on how to fund it.Our economy
cannot sustain it and return to health! I guess if we are all equally poor, at
least we will all be equal.
And Mr Davis, whether you like it or not, Congress has the power to add, change,
or remove laws. That "remove" portion regarding Obamacare is what is
upsetting to you. I suggest that you follow your own counsel and live with the
fact that Congress may at some point get rid of it. And further, it
wasn't the House of Representatives that shut down the government. It was
the Senate. Nice spin by the media, but it was expected since they are deeply in
the pockets of the Democratic Party. I have no doubt that were this a different
issue and the shoes were changed, the media would be applauding the tough House
Rather the solution is to reform it to correct those flaws. Obamacare is here to
stay. So let’s work together to make it better."===== Agreed.Next step, Get rid of the FOR-profit leeches of
Insurance, and go to a Single Payer System.
This country allow freedoms of speech and thinking. To condem others because of
their choice is wrong. A person covinced against their will is of the same
opinion stillHome schooling has been shown to be a much better
method of education yet public schools continue to placate the masses. As a
coluntry we do not always agree or vote for the best.Now the country
is having to swallow the bitter pill it voted for. It is law, regardless of who
you voted for. It is like a 45 mph speedlimit on I 15, it may not be the most
pleasant thing but we will survive.I feel bad that our state is
represented by Senator Lee as he has grown to be a headline hound and is more
concerned with getting his name in the headlines than helping the people of
Utah. Even money bags Orrin is backing away from this latest round of Senator
Lee hunting a microphone. Were anyone else to act like that and not be an
elected official they would be arrested.
I thought the tea party was greatly diminished?A coalition of a few
congressmen cannot hold anything up. It is the sum total of the GOP that has
given the house of representatives the power they are exercising. That would be
the house, elected by the people, that has a Republican majority.This isn't a tea party thing, this is a Republican thing. Just like the
ACA is a Democrat thing.If we don't like it, then we have an
election cycle that is just beginning and again the will of the people will be
exercised. Just like last time.So many of the posters on this forum
are predicting doom and gloom for the GOP. They may be right. They were not
last time. We'll see. The GOP has not lost my vote yet as there is not a
viable alternative. Certainly not the Democrats.
Excellent editorial, Richard. I would invite all the conservative commenters
here to read E.J. Dionne's editorial in the Trib this morning. Mike Lee and
our House sheep ought to read it too. There is no way to spin this government
shutdown as anything other than a Tea Party attack on the Constitution they give
lip service to.
Work together to make it better. Please.
I agree with most of what the Professor says in this editorial. But one thing I
don't agree is his suggestion that single payer systems are somehow
socialized medicine. Government paying the bills hardly makes for socialism.
For the county to turn to socialized medicine, the government would have to be
far more involved. It would have to own and run the hospitals, employee medical
service providers, make all purchases of medical supplies and drugs and control
their distribution. It would have to have the power to determine who could
become a medical provider and who could not. A single payer where
the government just pays the bills to privately run or to non profit hospitals
and to independent physicians and other health providers who are not employed by
the government hardly qualifies as "socialized medicine".
The Republicans should go ahead and do their best to implement it, or rather to
support the administration to implement it. Then when it is incredibly messed
up, they can say, "We did our best." It is possible right now that
someone in the White House is saying, "Wow! We really messed up! No one
will ever vote Democratic ever again. How do we conceal this?" And then
Pres. Obama says, "I know! I will tell the Repubs I won't negotiate.
Lee and Cruz will get mad and do everything to stop Obamacare. Even shut down
the government. No one will ever find out how bad we messed up and we can blame
the Republicans. (Evil laugh). I am a sinister genius! (Some more evil
laughter.)."(OK, I am stretching things a bit with the evil
laughter, but Dems are playing chess and the Republicans are playing checkers.)
bandersen, I would prefer to follow the Constitution when creating or changing
laws. If you are against your definition of socialism, then stop using the
internet, roads and bridges and watching BYU football on FCC controlled
The reason the Affordable Healthcare Act was passed by Congress was because the
majority of Americans felt and still believe costs related to healthcare in the
U.S. are skyrocketing out of control and were unaffordable or unavailable for a
significant percentage of citizens and their families.There is no
more debate or negotiations. It is the law of the land and the Supreme Court put
its iron stamp on it as well when it was challenged. The article clearly spells
out the benefits of the law. We have in Congress a group of
extremists who are needlessly peddling doom and refuse to negotiate. Shutting
down government and blackmailing the American people as the Tea Party
Republicans have done, will eventually not work and will backfire come election
time. Remember that folks next elections.
So, according to the author, let's keep something that has been a lie. It
was promised to reduce cost (lie), promised to allow choice for your doctor
(lie), to make health care better (lie), and, of course, the biggest one of all,
this isn't 'socialism'. This is the most bizarre claim of all.
If this isn't socialism, someone please inform me what it is then.
Socialism: a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting
of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of
capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole. To state that Obomacare is
not Socialism is amazing, particularly coming from a professor at a major
university, and BYU! Perhaps he has never read the writings of Ezra Taft
Benson. Well, of course, he's a dead prophet and was living in a different
day and age. Indeed. I'm sure he would have a few things to say about the
ignorance of those who want to view Socialism positively. NO thanks.
Claiming that the House Republicans will "try to take the nation into
default to stop Obamacare" is only half the story. One could also argue
that the Senate Democrats will try to take the nation into default to preserve
Obamacare. It's quite mistaken to blame the whole thing on the GOP. I
blame both parties and a legislative process that fails to prevent stalemates
like this.And it's a huge leap of faith to claim that most of
the kinks in Obamacare will be worked out by 2017. I am self-employed, and my
medical insurance in January 2013 was $277 a month. In January 2014, one year
later, it will rise to $567 a month. So I'm leaving. I'm making
preparations to move to a Christian medical sharing plan, which (amazingly)
survived Obamacare and is a legal way to avoid the Obamacare penalty.
Meanwhile, huge numbers of sick persons may flock to Obamacare while young and
healthy persons stay away until they get really sick. Maybe the administrative
kinks will be worked out, but the premises of Obamacare are still wildly
untested and could cause all of Obamacare to collapse without a single GOP vote.
I hope not.
What Congress givith, Congress can take away! Watch how quickly the Act will
disappear when the Republicans get their act together.
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the
Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as
you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin
in all events."--Abraham Lincoln addressing Southern Secessionists He might as well have been addressing Mike Lee and Ted Cruz.
"Work together to make it better?" The President, Harry Reid, Nancy
Pelosi, and the Democrats have proven they don't want that. "No
negotiations", they say, and their pleas for "compromise" mean only
"my way or the highway." Their consistent refusal to talk to the House
Republicans demonstrate they don't want any changes--except for those
extra-legal, questionably unconstitutional changes President Obama, without
congressional approval, has made to the law himself.Anybody who
doesn't see this is a pathway to constitutional and economical disaster has
Maybe the Affordable Care Act could give counseling for reality shock. Fantasy
politics took a hit when Senator Lee attempted to defund the already funded
The only person to kill part of Obamacare was Obama himself. He gave business
until 2015. They are on the honor system this year, you know what that means.
Why is he allowed to change things, and not Congress?
As a heartfelt conservative with strong family and faith values, and as one who
believes America's greatness lies in the initiative and independence of its
people, I have stood dumbfounded and saddened at the mass movement of America
toward social liberalism. The possibility of the death of opposing viewpoints
to social liberalism in America is very real. With close to 90% of our media --
not just broadcast but also social and blogosphere -- dedicated to social
liberalism, where is one to get a true picture of things as they really are?
Liberals, dedicated to a great society in which government involvement and
intervention make the skies blue and the sun shine, never concern themselves
with issues of personal freedom, or the cost involved. In their world as long
as big brother takes care of everything from health to employment to what
religious and marriage beliefs we're allowed to hold, the world will be a
wonderful place. We want our children educated, but America's universities
are also filled with people who espouse the same singular point of view, thus
furthering the cloudiness of clear understanding for our kids. I fear they
don't stand a chance. Where is the balance?