The shut down is like a union strike. However, Senator Lee and his followers
have other people strike and not get paid. This act by our leaders will
influence how people obey or not obey the law.
You screamed about it when Bush was in office? Yet there were no budget
standoffs from republicans then. The ironic thing about the so
called communist, snti constitutional Obamacare is that it was the republicans
LDS LiberalI screamed about it when Bush spent like a Democrat. I
agree that some Republicans don't hold to their stated values when it is
their guy in office. However, that seems to be what many Obama supporters are
doing now too. Either way, we have big problems and if something is not done by
the powers in office, bigger ones to come. Just how high do you honestly think
the debt ceiling can go before something bad happens? Right now, it seems as if
the only thing preventing that 23 trillion dollar debt I mentioned earlier, is a
hand full of Republicans. If not for them, how high would the Democrats take
our debt? Any idea?
LDS Liberal,You forgot a few factual dates in your fantasy list... From
Wikipedia (government shutdowns in the United States)...1976
Democrats shutdown Ford1977 The Democratically-controlled Senate
shutdown the government in a hissy-fit over the ban on using Medicaid dollars to
pay for abortions.1977 The earlier temporary funding agreement
expired. President Jimmy Carter signed a second funding agreement to allow for
more time for negotiation.1977 The second temporary funding
agreement expired. The House held firm against the Senate in its effort to ban
Medicaid paying for the abortions 1978 again over gov $$$ for
abortions.1979 Again over gov $$$ for abortions1981
President Ronald Reagan pledged that he would veto any spending bill that failed
to include at least half of the $8.4 billion in domestic budget cuts that he
proposed. Democrats refused.Democrat shutdowns again in 1982,
1984, 1986, 1987, 1990...Total 18 times. Democrats
controlled the House in all 18 cases except the two during the Clinton
Administration (when Republicans had majority and insisted on welfare reform and
a balanced budget).There's a great list with who the president
was, who controlled House and Senate, and the reason.
Bush wiped out a $5.6 Trillion budget surplus in 2 years and the national debt
hit $10 Trillion on his watch. Remember how Right-Wingers screamed about that?
No? That’s because the didn’t.
UtahBlueDevil,Do you have an example where Democrats compromised on
ObamaCare? Has the Senate even voted on one of the House proposals? Not one!
Harry Reid just rejects them and said he won't even read anything they
send him! THAT... is not compromise.If you want to pretend to be
the party of compromise... at least don't say you're going to reject
EVERYTHING before they even send it. Tell them what you WILL accept. Maybe
throw them a bone, offer to delay 3 weeks instead of the 5 weeks they asked for
or something. But at least read it, vote on it, respond to it. Harry Reid
said he would reject ANYTHING the House sends him. How is THAT
"Compromise"?I agree we need to drop the silly rhetoric.
That's my point exactly. That the Democrats who are pretending that just
Republicans won't compromise need to wake up and smell their own coffee.I agree adding unrelated things to force them to vote for or against it
is a bogus political game. You're not pretending Democrats don't do
that... are you? They both do. That's why I'm disappointed with
Congress (not just Republicans).
@2bits..... you asked for one example...ok..... from the last debt ceiling
"compromise" in 2011.."President Barack Obama signed a
debt- limit compromise that prevents a U.S. default on the day the Treasury had
warned the nation’s borrowing authority would expire, ending a months-long
debate that reinforced partisan divisions over federal spending."There are lots more of these.... but you asked for oneLets back
off the silly rhetoric of one side does blank, while the other is all saintly.
It there were one constitutional change I would love to see is that bills had to
be single subject. None of this silly rider bills that stick unrelated stuff in
them. If you want a budget bill... pass a budget bill. If you
want to change or repeal Obamacare.... do that. You wnat to change gun laws...
do just that. Don't tie unrelated topics together. It is dishonest at
pragmatistferlifeRe: "so did Bush compromise on the tax
cuts"? Yes... he did. Google "Bush Tax Cuts History)1. He
adjusted the income cut offs, and rates for some groups (in response to Democrat
demands). 2. He gave in to Democrat's demands that they have an
automatic sunset date.3. Even with those compromises Democrats fought to
repeal them in 2004 and 2008... UNTIL Obama Became President. THEN Democrats
fought to make them PERMANENT (but just for the middle-class) and won.The Bush tax cuts are actually a pretty good example of compromise.IF Obama had even allowed Republicans IN THE ROOM when this healthcare
legislation was being written... we wouldn't be where we are today. Now
Obama and Harry Reid refuse to even READ any of the multiple proposals from the
House. How does THAT illustrate Democrat's superior ability to
"compromise"?I'm pretty sure Obama wouldn't give
in to a demand that ObamaCare have an automatic sunset date.
LDS LiberalOr the middle class will revolt against the Democrats because
everyone else but the middle class got a waiver and will vote you silly
Democrats out of office and Hillary will lose in a landslide and the Democratic
party implodes. Particularly when Obamacare kills a few million more jobs,
causes healthcare cost to explode and it gets rationed because of doctor
shortages! Your future rises and falls with Obamacare! Right now the polls are
not in your favor.
LDS LiberalYou forgot one more dateJan 21, 2017. The
United States of America is now in a permanent decline and will never recover
due to the 23 trillion dollar debt and a Federal Government that is out of
2013 -- Silly Republicans throw a hissy fit and shut-down the United States
Government.2014 -- Congress has a dismal 7% approval rating, Americans are
fed up with it, and Democrats sweep the House of Representatives.2015 --
The Republican Party implodes.2016 -- Democrats gain 6 more seats in the
Senate.Jan. 20, 2017 -- Hillary Clinton (D) is sworn in as the 1st female
President of the United States.
"....Congress has an opportunity to act before it is too late. Fiscal
responsibility starts with defunding ObamaCare.”_____________________________Calls for fiscal responsibility are
always invoked by those with their own pet priorities that they fight to keep
funded. This is not about fiscal responsibility. It never has been.
2bits, so did Bush compromise on the tax cuts? Ahh no, and neither will Obama
compromise here. The ACA has been litigated 4 different times and the
Republicans have lost all four, and their going to lose number 5.
MaverickDemocrats threatened to shutdown the government if Congress
didn't de-fund the wars (the same wars they voted to start). So don't
pretend thie never happens.The only difference this time is...
it's happening to the Great Obama. And that's why all the fuss.
It happened to Reagan several times. It happened to Clinton
several times. It's not the big deal you make it out to be.And
Congress fighting over something that's already law... How about Democrats
fighting the Bush Tax cuts (even after they were law and Constitutional).How about Democrats fighting funding the Iraq war (after they voted to
start it).IMO It's not a good thing to do... but your pretense
that rarely happens or that only Republicans do it... is obviously bunk.Who shutdown the government during the Reagan administration (because
they refused to pass a budget)? Was it Republicans or Democrates? It was
Democrats who wouldn't pass a budget. Democrats can't make tough
budget decisions. And they are not known for compromising (on ObamaCare, on
budgets, on anything).Name one compromise DEMOCRATS have made to
avert this government shutdown fiasco.
VickieB tell me when the government was shutdown in order to make adjustments to
Medicare, or Social Security, or the CDC etc. etc. etc.? That's the point.
You don't shut down the government to make adjustments to existing laws.
Wait your turn. When Republicans control the White House and the Congress, have
at it. Until then the ACA has nothing to do with funding the government or
raising the debt limit, regardless of how you feel about it.
Last time we looked, Obama illegally mandated 17 changes in his own Obamacare
law without any authority to do so! Bypassing congress, illegally changing laws
at his whims. Where is your outrage Democrats? And now you and Obama whine about
the GOP in congress want to delay some of this mess that Obama did for the
privileged, their friends and for themselves? Your outrage is hypocritical and
as phony as you are!
Good point, do not end shut down until second amendment repealed. Give the
radical right their own medicine for subverting the rules.
Employee mandates were already stripped out by Obama until 2015. It seems one
person is holding people hostage, while letting business slide. The
last shutdown brought conversations and passed bills between both sides. Maybe
this will force Obama to start compromising. Something both sides have not done.
It's not a bill. It's a law.I wonder if Repubs
would be up in arms (literally) if the Democrats threatened to shut down the
government if the GOP didn't "negotiate" the 2nd amendment? If the ACA is really as bad as the GOP says, why not let it go through?
If our country goes into the tank, the GOP literally won't have to do
anything to win the next several elections.
From the article: "This event has of course evoked strong response from both
sides of the political spectrum, with those on the left calling for the GOP to
“grow up” and accept that the bill is here to stay and calls from
the right about stopping the “fiscally irresponsible ” health care
reform."It's not a "bill"--it's a law. The
only way to repeal a law is for both houses of congress to pass a repeal
measure, and for the President to sign it. One half of one branch of the
government does not get to dictate to the other two-and-a-half branches.