Yes, Obamacare will implode, however there is one thing that all of "wiser
than the rest of us" have not mentioned, and that is Congress has exempted
the chosen groups from abiding by Obamacare. Have you asked yourselves why is
it that the Politicians, unions and the "chosen" corporations have been
exempted from having to follow what is called "the Law of the Land"?
There have been over 1,000 exemptions given to Obamas "Chronys".
According to: John C. C. Payson, UT"For
those who claim that the Affordable Care Act is a bad idea, please include this
in your calculations. When most poor Americans finally get some degree of basic
health coverage there will be a significant drop in those going to local
emergency rooms. An ounce of prevention will be worth more than a pound of cure.
The overall costs of health care will drop."Having lived in
Canada under a medical care system approximating Obamacare, I can tell you that
Emergency Room visits greatly increased, and Emergency Room service continues to
provide the only way Canadians can get timely care. Doctor visits and
diagnostic scans, scopes, testing, x-rays, etc. must be scheduled months in
advance of appointments, and patients are often sent hundreds of miles from
local services in order to distribute the load. It just saves a lot of time to
go straight to the ER (which Canadians call the "Merge.")Funny thing: In Canada, health care is "free" but virtually
unavailable. Hospital visitors pay to park ($8) and hospital patients pay for
TV ($20 per day).
I'm amazed at the comments included here about the Constitution.
"Conservative" said: "I checked the Constitution. Yes, the majority
rules. The Democrats are majority in one of the 2 Legislative Branch houses. And
of course they also hold the Executive Branch. The minority may appeal to the
courts. Elections do have consequences."Those who truly
understand the "original intent" of the Constitution understand that the
House of Representative is the "People's House," and represents the
will of the people directly. The Senate represents the interests of the various
states, and not the people directly. So the Founders gave the House of
Representatives the "Power of the Purse." That is the power that the
House of Representatives is exercising in the present stalemate, and they not
only have the right to do so; they have the duty to do so.Poll after
poll reveals that the will of the people is that Obamacare be defunded. The
"People's House" is representing that "majority" view. God
save the Constitution and the House of Representatives. And, as for you who
comment, try to become acquainted with the Constitution and the Founder's
original intent. Thanks.
As bad as the ACA is, it's not worth shutting down the government over.Single payer was the only thing that made sense, but people, this
monstrosity is LAW.This law is signed, sealed, and delivered (and upheld
by the Supreme Court).This Tea/Republican shutdown is just theater
of the absurd.Is this the worst Congress to have ever been elected
in the history of the Country?
It was pased into law, that law was upheld by the Supreme Court. The President
was Re-Elected. Get over it and get back to work. You lost the fight. You don't have the votes to repeal the law. So get back to work or resign
and let us elect a new congress/senate that is willing to do the peoples
business. Not just the business of the t-party!
Yes. BYU and Utah State are regional Utah schools, so they are natural rivals.
Utah is a national brand in a power conference, well on its way to
building rivalries with other national brands - USC, Oregon, etc.
Obamacare is socialism pure and simple.It should be fought!
Yeah a lot of Republicans don't seem to really understand what happened in
the House.The Senate passed a budget that DIDN'T gut
Obamacare.The House passed a budget that DID gut Obamacare.The Senate considered the House budget bill and voted no.The House
leadership prevented the Senate bill from coming up for a vote, *precisely
because it would have passed.*In other words, Boehner prevented his
own Republicans from voting on--and for--the Senate bill.The blame
doesn't go both ways on this one. This is all on the heads of the Tea Party
and the GOP leadership in the house that answers only to them.Tea
Party first, Americans second.
No wonder they wanted to block this I am 52 and my insurance is now only 1025.00
a year.Just Wow.
I would love to hear what all the debt worriers feel about the military, since
during the Bush years they were quiet as a mouse. Bush created 2 wars that are
going to be worth 4 Trillion by the time things are all said and done, and the
Republican led congress saddled the country with a prescription drug bill that
was totally unfunded, why aren't they calling for cutbacks in military
If the HealthCare Bill is so bad, why don't they wait until next year, get
enough votes to win both houses and then do what they want to do? I agree with
Shaun, I think they are worried it will be liked and they will lose lose lose
Legislating by Shutdown. We Can't: win elections, pass bills, engage in
debate, follow the Constitution, or explain ourselves in a rational way. We are
consistent however: we have made 44 serious attempts to to defund or derail
Obamacare, and 0 serious attempts to pass a budget.
I fundamentally disagree with Hatch's opening statement "Obama and dems
to shut down the government and blame the Republicans"the FACTS are
the democrats have asked for an UP OR DOWN vote. Just vote.the FACTS are
the Republican Speaker of the House is only allowing votes on bills including a
de-funding of Affordable Care Act (which is law, passed by the house and senate
and determined to be constitutional by the supreme court).Make no mistake
this is a Republican tactic to disallow ACA, an existing law. Are the
republicans looking after the interests of taxpayers? or are republicans looking
after the interests of Big Insurance?
Re: ". . . government shutdown at midnight"And, just as
Democrats wanted it to, government DID shut down. But their disingenuous
blame-the-Republicans propaganda started months ago.But, real people
understand this shutdown of the government -- except for those services enjoyed
the Democrat monarch and aristocrats, of course -- is due to one thing, and one
thing only: Obama's obsession with preserving Obamacare, that wildly
unpopular, lame-duck Democrat socialist program that this regime exalts about
everything else.Including the common good.Thanks,
Shaun 4:17Re: "If Obamacare is bad as republicans make it... Force the
democrats hand at implementing it right away and sit back watch it
implode".The problem with that approach is... you can't
move back on entitlements. It is litterally impossible to actually CUT one
cent out of Meidare, Medicaid, Social Security. Any politician who even
proposes NOT INCREASING the budget (which is not even a "cut", it's
less of an increase than they wanted) any government department at the usual
rates are given the boot.So any politician who wants to get elected
knows they MUST increase funding for ObamaCare, Food Stamps, Medicare, Medicaid,
Social Security, Unemployment benefits, Education, and National Park budgets...
or be out of a job. Democrats can cut defense budgets all they
want, and the public LOVES that (until we really need them). But fail to
increase entitlements less than the previous administration... and you are an
automatic villain.So politician can touch ObamaCare once it controls
your access to healthcare.The fight was now or never. Democrats
won... so lets see if people like their new insurance rates.
And you are responsible for this mess, Orrin.
Tea party is to blame. Yelling shut is down is insurrection. now what?
Until true conservatives and honest Republicans regain control of their own
party, I will not be voting Republican. We need the conservative voice in our
country, but what too many Republicans have become in their move to the far
right is embarrassing to the party and destructive to the country. Hatch should
never defend what they have done. In fact, he should despise their lack of
understanding of the way things are supposed to work, according to the
Constitution. The entire thing is just disgusting.
Democrats, led by their fearless leader, Obama, literally crammed Obamacare down
our collective throats (yes, liberals, the majority of Americans have N-E-V-E-R
wanted Obamacare.....go look it up yourself but make sure you don't get all
your sources from only other liberals....yes, even polls by liberal avenues like
CNN, NBC, etc show that the majority of Americans do NOT want Obamacare).....a
2,700+ page disaster that, according to the (then) Speaker of the House, Nancy
Pelosi, "had" to be passed so we could, and I quote, "find out
what's in it".Are our leaders that clueless?Yes, boys and girls, they are.Everything the Federal Government
touches, it destroys: Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, US Post Office,
Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, AmTrak, and, last but not least, our own Federal
budget...what should be a surplus, or at least a break even proposition, is in
debt to the tune of a measley $17 TRILLION.But something as complex
as nationalized health care?Don't worry, I'm sure
they'll "get it right"....The bottom line is, I support
any legal and moral option that will end Obamacare. Anything.
SHUT IT DOWN, I know these overpaid lightweights are tired and old, so they need
a rest for all the hard work they do up there in the big building.
@patriot vetYou wrote the ACA was:"passed by the
House,passed by the Senate,Signed by the President,and upheld
by the Supreme Court."I won't argue your point.-------------Why would you? That's like arguing 1 + 1 equals
2.If Obamacare is as bad as Romneycare then Republicans should be
giddy for the next election cycle. They can clean sweep the next elections.
ACA is not about healthcare? Is about TAXING Americans MORE! It's about
power and robbing from the hard working and giving to the DC bureaucrats!
.....McCain/Obama/Reid/Pelosi/Hatch are all on in the same! Lee and Cruz are
the new hope and change!
For those who claim that the Affordable Care Act is a bad idea, please include
this in your calculations. When most poor Americans finally get some degree of
basic health coverage there will be a significant drop in those going to local
emergency rooms. An ounce of prevention will be worth more than a pound of
cure. The overall costs of health care will drop.
The nation is heading for a train wreck with Obama care. It will increase, not
decrease health care costs. It will increase not decrease insurance costs. It
will decrease, not increase access to health care. Many unions recognize the
looming disaster and have withdrawn support. Still, the President and the
Democrats in the Senate have refused to negotiate as they did when they
unilaterally rammed Obamacare down the throats of Americans in the first place.
The House Republicans are using the only leverage they have. I see the poll
numbers quoted in the comments but I don't personally know anyone who still
really thinks Obamacare is good for America. Under Regan, the Democrats shut
down the government 12 different times. Like it or not, this is what checks and
balances looks like and it is a good thing for America.
For John Boehner, Mitch McConnell and the Republican Party its all about power
and politics, rather than serving the people. Its no secret that Republican
extremists have wanted to shut the government down because they feel Democrats
would be blamed by the media and by Americans.This from a Congress
that closed White House tours and many other traditional activities through an
ill-advised stunt called sequestration. Republicans just wants to stick it to
Americans and the Democratic party.But as far as actually trying to
solve America's challenges? Won't happen if they have anything to say
For Obama and the Democratic Party its all about power and politics, rather than
serving the people. Its no secret that Obama and Reid have wanted to shut the
government down because they feel Republicans would be blamed by the media and
by Americans.This from a president who closed White House tours. He
just wants to stick it to Americans and the Republican party.
Orrin Hatch's slogan "Utah's Time to Lead".....That is
hilarious! The Elder Statesman with all the experience sits by and does
nothing. What an embarrassment Utah's senators are! Of course that's
only my opinion. I know they're both wildly-popular with most Utahns.
It seems to me that Congress is not listening to their constituents and it will
come back to haunt them. Senator Cruz will be the star in all this as he has
adamantly fought to defund Obamacare before the trainwreck actually happened.
There are going to be a lot of unhappy citizens once this mess is enacted.
Public Opinion and polls have indicated that more than half the country is
against Obamacare and that number will only rise as this law unfolds. Seems to
me that we have a bunch of anarchists in Washington that aren't listening
and don't care to listen. They just like to appear like they are and then
they do what they want. Hopefully the repercussions from all this will turn the
tide away from the progressives. What a joke.
I am disgusted with both parties. Neither feels the need to govern responsibly.
What business would wait until the last day to secure funding to meet its
obligations? Our politicians are an embarrassment. They bicker and point
fingers--spending most of their time calculating the votes their actions win or
lose. I cannot imagine anyone from either party not recognizing that some of
the blame for today's absurd deadlock is their own fault. The citizenry of
the country are getting what they deserve—we elected the bums and must
live with the consequences. Anyone see any value to term limits/campaign
Shut it down.
I love to hear tye liberals wine. Need some cheese?
Congress needs more Libertarians.
Why hasn't Senator Hatch been in DC voting?
Well now, isn't this another fine mess Americans have gotten themselves
into. Yes, we got what we wanted by voting this group of cry baby, do nothing
for Americans into office. Get over it and get it done already.
There should be no compromise, this isn't about the budget, this is about
paying what's already due. The House spent the money and they need to pay
the bills. I can't get a car loan then tell the bank I'll only pay
them if they give me something additional.Besides, the House
isn't doing the will of the people as they claim. A new poll by The Morning
Consult just out today shows only 33% believe that the health law should be
repealed, delayed, or defunded. People want it to go into effect and to be
patriot vet Cedar City, UTI won't argue your point.
But my point was that no matter what the outcome of our Constitutional process,
we must defend it (the process).4:27 p.m. Sept. 30, 2013======
Agreed.I am a Veteran myself.I have sworn the oath
to protect the Constitution.There are ALOT of things I disagree with
about our Government, but when guys Senator Mike Lee, Cruz and the rest of
the comedians in Congress trample the Constitution and our Democratic process,
by usurping the vote and holding America hostage...is something I WILL
fight.If they don't like ACA or anything else for that matter,
rally the troops, state your case, and get public support and
the VOTES to change things.Shutting Down our Government, ignoring
laws passed by all 3 branches of Government is just plain wrong -- regardless of
who's doing it or for what reason.
To Patriot Vet in Cedar City:You wrote, -- "The Republicans have
a 54%-46% majority in the House, the Democrats have a 53%-47% majority in the
Senate. Therefore, the Legislative Branch is split 50-50. The Executive Branch
is Democrat. Common sense tells us that the Democrats have a 75%-25% edge over
the Republicans in the Government. Lets do the math: 435 House
seats in the house = 235 Republican and 200 Democrats. 100 seats in the Senate
= 47 Republicans and 53 Democrats (including two Independents). My math tells
me there are more elected Republicans in the Legislative Branch than Democrats,
-- 282 to 253.
@LDS Liberal...My friend, liberals would not call me a liberal, and
conservatives would not call me a conservative. I'm politically
moderate.You wrote the ACA was:"passed by the House,
passed by the Senate, Signed by the President, and upheld by
the Supreme Court."I won't argue your point. But my point
was that no matter what the outcome of our Constitutional process, we must
defend it (the process).
So defaulting on our existing loans is government being responsible?
If Obamacare is bad as republicans make it, they should just let the law become
law and force the implementation of it as it was passed. Force the democrats
hand at implementing it right away and sit back watch it implode. But my guess is they are worried it will not implode and fear losing the house
in next few election cycles and the presidency.
So.....we're $17 TRILLION in debt (that, folks, is the same as 17,000
BILLIONS.....yes, 17,000 billions) and everyone knows it would have been wise
had we said this is garbage the very FIRST time we spent more than we took in
and held our foolish government representatives accountable.However,
now that we're $17 trillion in debt, holding government leaders accountable
is a bad thing.Riiiiiiight....Does. Not. Compute.
Sad thing is, Hatch DIDN'T even have the fortitude to cast a vote on the
bill the House sent to the Senate. Senator Hatch DIDN'T vote. He and
Senator Flake are the only two Republicans who refrained from voting. Oh, if
only we had a young, courageous senior senator in the Senate to stand along side
Senator Mike Lee and speak in behalf of the people of Utah.
Any other face but Mr. H. please. Ah well, such is business in Congress. Still
not willing to face reality that civil rights has entered the White House. Oh
my! Thoughts of shutting down government make them clucking chickens . . . or
chickens with heads cut off. It's sixes.
Hours before a shutdown of the federal government, 2polls show Americans are
directing their wrath atRepublicans.2 polls released tonday show
Americans are blaming to Republicans in Congress, Democrats and President Obama.
63%, disapprove of the way the GOP is handling the budget impasse
according to an ABC News/Washington Post poll.========= In a CNN/ORC poll, 69% of Americans say Republicans are acting like
"spoiled children". That compares with 58% who say the same about
Democrats and 47% who place that label on Obama.Obama does the best
acting like a "responsible adult" in the CNN/ORC poll: 49% of Americans
choose that phrase to describe his behavior. 24% Americans say Republicans are
acting responsibly, and 35% say that about Democrats in Congress.=====@patriot vetCedar City, UTTrue patriots
defend and support our Constitution, and accept the Constitutionally elected
Executive and Judicial branches. We can't be 2-sided, luke warm or
fair-weather cheer leaders. We need to be patriots.---[You mean like those Shutting Down the Government over a fully Constitutional
law they don't like that was: passed by the House, passed by
the Senate, Signed by the President, and upheld by the Supreme
IF you think just Republicans do this, or it has never been done before...- How many times did Democrats try to overturn the Bush Tax cuts
Congress themselves passed?- How many times did Democrats try to de-fund
the wars (even after Congress passed the resolution to employ military force in
both instances)?- How many times did Democrats shut-down the government
during the Reagan Administration?If you don't know... you have
a one-sided memory.
I hope DN editors will accept my comment.True patriots defend and
support our Constitution, and accept the Constitutionally elected Executive and
Judicial branches. We can't be 2-sided, luke warm or fair-weather cheer
leaders. We need to be patriots.
I checked the Constitution. Yes, the majority rules. The Democrats are
majority in one of the 2 Legislative Branch houses. And of course they also
hold the Executive Branch. The minority may appeal to the courts. Elections do
Wow, the Right seems to be really starting to believe their own fantasyland
rhetoric (that Republicans are compromisers and not responsible for shutting
down the government). These guys could give lessons to Joseph Goebbels. Funny though… the look on Hatch’s face in this photo tells a
very different story.Curious – can anyone cite another time in
our history when one chamber of congress sought to undo a specific law in this
after the fact game-of-chicken manner?
I am a republican, but it is dishonest for our politicians to say it is the
Senate not willing to pass legislation to fund the government. The House is
deliberately eliminating any reference to the fact that the reason the bill will
not pass is that they are trying to sneak in additional items on the ACA. It is
the House and the Senate forcing a government shutdown. Why not just pass a
bill to fund the government the next fiscal year, and then squabble about the
The Republicans have a 54%-46% majority in the House, the Democrats have a
53%-47% majority in the Senate. Therefore, the Legislative Branch is split
50-50. The Executive Branch is Democrat.Common sense tells us that
the Democrats have a 75%-25% edge over the Republicans in the Government. The
Constitution yields the decision-making authority to the majority.The Judicial Branch (Supreme Court) can overturn the majority decision. That
is the recourse of the minority Republicans with Obamacare.
"(Senate Majority Leader) Harry Reid said he's not going to accept
anything that the House does,".... and yet the House and Republicans get
blamed for not acting (while the Senate Democrats are at home on recess refusing
to act on anything the House does).I guess you have to drink a lot
of coolaid first to follow Reid's logic. The Democrat leader of the
Senate says he refuses to act on ANYTHING the House does... so it's the
House and Republican's fault?If you want to look like the side
that will compromise... at least get off recess and be there and say you are
ready to look at what they pass!You can't reject what they send
you and send them something they must accept or else... and then go on
vacation... and expect the American people so see YOUR side as the ones who
As long as the NFL doesn't shut down, I'm cool with it.
Ute has it right. the US Constitution was crafted not only to balance the
different branches of government, but to balance the demands of the majority and
the minority. Right now, the minority are those in favor of the
ACA. Sadly, party politics is more important to most of our politicians than
the demands of the majority of the citizens of the US (those apposed to
ObamaCare). If they allow the ACA to fail (or even falter) it is an admission
that the entire thing was a mistake.
Interesting how Deseret News slants left... if I call the protest at Priesthood
meeting "silly" they edit me for being mean and calling names. If the
guy "one old man" calls opponents to his liberal view
"stupidity", that's okay with the Deseret News because those who
they are calling names are on the right, or should I say, In the Right.
The spin to shut down has gotten comical in a tragic un-american way.
If defunding the ACA is as popular an idea as the GOP would like us to believe
then why are the votes not there in both houses and a president in office to do
so? there is a reason they have to try to piggy back such a bad idea onto such
serious legislation instead of letting it stand on its own.
@ oldman and Skeptical....It is not the Republicans that refuse to
compromise. They have already put up several proposed compromises only to have
the Democratic Senate say "No" it must go our way or we don't play.
Even though I stand to lose a lot in wages during the shutdown I support
the Republicans and their efforts to get a reasonable compromise.
This is hostage-taking at its worst. The right wing couldn't win the
presidential election, even though they campaigned against Obamacare, they
couldn't win the Senate back because Senate races can't be
gerrymandered. They only hold the House because of gerrymandering. Look it up
- there were more votes cast for Democratic candidates for the House than for
Republicans. Yet, they're going to hold the government hostage - causing
real harm to the country in the process. And for what? To prevent Obamacare
from taking effect. Get over it! You lost the election. If you want to make
Obamacare a better program, come up with real improvements that can be voted on.
Otherwise, just get out of the way.
Ultra-right wing stupidity at it most virulent.