Quantcast

Comments about ‘More accusers come forward in sexually explicit photos case’

Return to article »

Published: Saturday, Sept. 28 2013 9:00 p.m. MDT

Comments
  • Oldest first
  • Newest first
  • Most recommended
Contrariuser
mid-state, TN

More proof that the BSA ban on gay leaders does nothing to protect scouts.

True predators like this one hide behind a camouflage of apparent "normality". Pointlessly banning honest gay men won't stop them.

Incidentally -- I don't know if Prince is married, but the other predator currently in the DN (Michael Driggs) has been married at least twice.

Most BSA abusers are married men.

----------

British Journal of Psychiatry, 2001 -- men with "no evidence of homosexuality" were at roughly 50% GREATER risk for becoming child abusers than men "who were homosexually inclined".


Child Advocacy Center -- 75% of all male child molesters are "married or have consenting sexual relationships (with women)" and "only about 4 percent of same-sex abuse involves homosexual perpetrators".

Archives of Sexual Behavior, 1978 -- "sexual orientation was not related to the sex of the victim targeted" and "men who molested boys often had adult relationships with women".


AN Groth, former director of the Sex Offender Program at the Connecticut Department of Corrections, has said: "my studies have indicated that homosexual males pose LESS risk of sexual harm to children (both male and female)--from both an absolute and a percentage incidence rate--than heterosexual males."

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

This is a sad reminder of why the Boy Scouts ruled as they did. The facts of life are that no straight man has ever abused a boy scout, its not in his nature as he's not attracted to males.

It is true that some people, as this man, have lied about their orientation and slipped through the cracks.

Again, the facts are that of all boy scout abuse cases, 100% have been done by bisexual or homosexual men.

And scout safety is paramount. This is all about Scout safety.

And the Boy Scouts have made that clear by making this correct decision.

Hopefully these victims receive the help they need.

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

Here is a fact that is the underlying reason for not allowing homosexual boy scout leaders:

100% of all sexual abuse cases against boy scouts have been committed by homosexuals or bisexuals.

That is simply the very definition.

This is not discrimination.

Its just stating the obvious, that a heterosexual man has never abused a boy scout, as heterosexuals are only attracted to females.

This man deserves the just severe punishment possible.

Contrariuser
mid-state, TN

@Chris B --

"This is a sad reminder of why the Boy Scouts ruled as they did. "

The real "sad reminder" is that no ban on gay scout leaders would have prevented this abuse.

"The facts of life are that no straight man has ever abused a boy scout, its not in his nature as he's not attracted to males."

That's baloney, Chris. Try to actually read my post and the facts included in it.

"Again, the facts are that of all boy scout abuse cases, 100% have been done by bisexual or homosexual men."

No, Chris, that is NOT "the facts". Read my post and the facts included in it.

"This is all about Scout safety."

If it were really all about Scout safety, then you would acknowledge the fact that no ban on gay scout leaders would have prevented this abuse.

To repeat just one finding from my original post:

AN Groth, former director of the Sex Offender Program at the Connecticut Department of Corrections, has said: "my studies have indicated that homosexual males pose LESS risk of sexual harm to children (both male and female)--from both an absolute and a percentage incidence rate--than heterosexual males."

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

The man who commit these horrible crimes is either a homosexual or bisexual, by definintion, since he is sexually attracted to other males.

There is nothing wrong with this.

But this case is sad evidence of the damage that can be done to young innocent boy scouts when put in a vulnerable position.

It is true the ban on gay scout leaders won't protect scouts 100% of the time.

Similarly, a ban on murder does not protect everyone in the country from murder.

A ban on illegal drugs does not prevent 100% the abuse of illegal drugs.

Of course not all homosexuals would prey on vulnerable children.

But again, no heterosexual man has ever abused a boy scout. By definition, it's never happened.

Again, this is about scout safety.

That should be the focus of all of us.

Let's work together to protect the Boy Scouts. The current rules are a good start.

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

Contagious,

"Most BSA predators have been married men"

So are you saying every man whose ever been married to a woman in the history of the world is a heterosexual?

That flies in the face of what liberals seem to be suggesting these days. I can give many examples of men who at one point where married to women but then came out as gay.

And even if some scout abusers were married to women, at most that means they are bisexual.

Again, no heterosexual man has ever abused a boy scout.

Heterosexual men are not attracted to other males.

These are simple definitions.

And again, we should all work together to keep scouts safe.

And the Boy Scouts are doing what they can, and it no doubt it helping keep them safe.

Contrarius
mid-state, TN

@Chris B --

"So are you saying every man whose ever been married to a woman in the history of the world is a heterosexual?"

I'm saying that the BSA rule against gay scout leaders would not have kept out any of the actual predators, because they consistently hide behind a camouflage of normality.

The men who are open and honest about being gay are NOT the predators. The predators are the guys who look "normal".

A few additional examples of BSA predators (these dates are dates of newspaper articles, not dates of attacks):

2009, Orem -- married scout leader
2005, New York -- married scout leader, prominent Baptist church member
2002, Denver/New York -- married scout leader
2012 (conviction 1999), Philadelphia -- married, prominent LDS member
2011, Pueblo -- divorced (not a leader)

BSA's anti-gay policy didn't prevent ANY of these attacks.

"And even if some scout abusers were married to women, at most that means they are bisexual."

Again -- Nope.

"Homosexual", "Bisexual", and "Heterosexual" are terms applied to attractions BETWEEN ADULTS.

As has already been explained to you many times, these terms do NOT apply to people who attack children.

Please stop lying, Chris. You've been shown the facts already.

spring street
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

once again Chris the definition of an adult that sexually abuses a child is a pedophil, adults attracted to children. you can try to redefine words all you want but the reality does not change

ChristoperB
Salt Lake, UT

spring street,

Yes, and the definition of a male that is sexually attracted to another male is a homosexual.

You can try and pretend that is not the definition, but reality does not change.

No heterosexual man will ever abuse a Boy Scout, as heterosexuals are only attracted to women.

And that is why the Boy Scouts has ruled as they did. Scout safety

Contrariusier
mid-state, TN

@ChristoperB --

"Yes, and the definition of a male that is sexually attracted to another male is a homosexual."

Do you simply not understand the facts that have been shown you?

Let me help you to understand.

Is "only about 4 percent of same-sex abuse involves homosexual perpetrators" confusing?

Is "sexual orientation was not related to the sex of the victim targeted" confusing?

Is "homosexual males pose LESS risk of sexual harm to children (both male and female)--from both an absolute and a percentage incidence rate--than heterosexual males" confusing?

Is "many child molesters don't really have an adult sexual orientation" confusing?

Is "many child molesters cannot be meaningfully described as homosexuals, heterosexuals, or bisexuals...because they are not really capable of a relationship with an adult man or woman" confusing?

Please, tell me which parts of these statements confuse you, so that I can help you to understand them better.

ChristoperB
Salt Lake, UT

A man who is sexually attracted to a male that is 17 years and 364 days old is not much different from a man who is sexually attracted to a male that is 18 years and 1 day old. Both of these men are homosexuals.

For this reason, the Boy Scouts have smartly decided that, for purely safety reasons, men attracted to males should not be taking the neighbor boys camping or working with them in small, sometimes unsupervised groups.

Not all cases of abuse can or ever will be stopped.

But some can be prevented. And this is one way this can be accomplished.

These poor victims probably hope no other Boy Scout has to go through what they did.

And the Boy Scouts are trying to ensure that happens.

Contrariuser
mid-state, TN

@ChristoperB --

"A man who is sexually attracted to a male that is 17 years and 364 days old is not much different from a man who is sexually attracted to a male that is 18 years and 1 day old. Both of these men are homosexuals. "

A man who is 17 years and 364 days old is very unlikely to be a victim of sexual predators of this type.

If you believe otherwise, please provide us with some evidence of 17-year-olds being attacked within the BSA.

"men attracted to males should not be taking the neighbor boys camping or working with them in small, sometimes unsupervised groups. "

The Girl Scouts already has lesbian female leaders.
The Girl Scouts already has straight male leaders.
The Boy Scouts already has straight female leaders.

Why would gay male leaders be any different?

And also -- NO adult should be taking ANY kids camping alone, regardless of orientation or gender.

"These poor victims probably hope no other Boy Scout has to go through what they did."

I have one moving statement from a victim of BSA abuse who strongly SUPPORTS gay male leaders in the BSA. Unfortunately, it's too long to post here!

ChristoperB
Salt Lake, UT

Contagious,

"A man who is 17 years and 364 days old is very unlikely to be a victim of sexual predators of this type."

And that has nothing to do with whether he is a pedophile or a homosexual, or both.

A man in a relationship with a male that is 17 years and 364 days old does not magically switch from being a pedophile to a homosexual upon that young man turning 18, which some people suggest.

The man is a homosexual before and after this male turns 18 years old.

Any man attracted to other males is either a homosexual or bisexual.

Very simple concepts.

The Boy Scouts is applying very basic truths to their rules, including that homosexuals are attracted to other males. Boy Scouts are males.

Scout safety here is paramount.

Contrarius
mid-state, TN

@ChristoperB --

"And that has nothing to do with whether he is a pedophile or a homosexual, or both. "

Of course it does.

-----

pedophilia: "characterized by a primary or exclusive sexual interest toward prepubescent children (generally age 11 years or younger, though specific diagnostic criteria for the disorder extends the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13). An adolescent who is 16 years of age or older must be at least five years older than the prepubescent child before the attraction can be diagnosed as pedophilia."

"The International Classification of Diseases (ICD) defines pedophilia as a "disorder of adult personality and behaviour" in which there is a sexual preference for children of prepubertal or early pubertal age."

-----

"Any man attracted to other males is either a homosexual or bisexual."

Please stop lying, Chris. You've been shown the facts several times already.

"Only about 4 percent of same-sex abuse involves homosexual perpetrators..."

"Sexual orientation was not related to the sex of the victim targeted..."

"Homosexual males pose LESS risk of sexual harm to children (both male and female)--from both an absolute and a percentage incidence rate--than heterosexual males..."

ChristoperB
Salt Lake, UT

This is all about Scout Safety, and in order to protect scouts it makes sense to consider who may possibly be a danger to them.

Heterosexual men are attracted only to females
Bisexual men are attracted to females and males
Homosexual men are attracted only to males

There is a ZERO percent chance of a heterosexual man abusing a boy scout. It's simply not in his nature, as he's only attracted to females.

Please stop lying Contrarious. Your claims are Contrary to reality.

In the history of the world, no heterosexual man has EVER abused a boy scout.

It's never happened.

Ever.

Certainly not all homosexuals would become scout abusers, and there may be some who sincerely want to just be leaders.

But the risk of danger is infinitely higher than with a heterosexual male, as again the chance that a heterosexual man abuses a boy scout:

ZERO

Contrariuserer
mid-state, TN

@ChristoperB --

"Heterosexual men are attracted only to females
Bisexual men are attracted to females and males
Homosexual men are attracted only to males"

Is the director of CT's sex offender program wrong, then?

Is the director of the National Child Advocacy Center wrong, then?

Is the Psychology Department of UC Davis wrong, then?

Are the researchers published in the British Journal of Psychiatry wrong, then?

Are the researchers published by the Archives of Sexual Behavior wrong, then?

Is the American Psychological Association wrong, then?

Is the American Psychiatric Association wrong, then?

The Girl Scouts already has lesbian female leaders.
The Girl Scouts already has straight male leaders.
The Boy Scouts already has straight female leaders.

None of these leaders have caused any abuse problems.

Why would gay male leaders be any different?

Contrariuserer
mid-state, TN

Just a few more facts I came across today --

Groth -- "...the homosexual male is sexually attracted to masculine qualities whereas the heterosexual male is sexually attracted to feminine characteristics, and the sexually immature child's qualities are more feminine than masculine... In any case, in over 12 years of clinical experience working with child molesters, we have yet to see any example of a regression from an adult homosexual orientation."

Groth and Birnbaum -- studied 175 men who had been convicted of sexual assaults against (male) children between 1970 and 1975. None of the offenders showed any preference for adult homosexual relationships. In fact, they frequently expressed a strong sexual aversion to other adult males, reporting that what they found attractive about immature boys were their feminine features and the absence of secondary sexual characteristics such as body hair and muscles.

Children's Hospital in Denver -- only 1 of 387 cases of suspected child molestation involved a gay perpetrator.

Jenny et al -- men who molest young boys are, by a wide margin, heterosexuals who are currently involved in sexual relationships with women, do not feel attracted to other men, and do not engage in same-sex relations with men.

Christopher.B
Salt Lake, UT

Its true that not homosexuals would be a danger to the Scouts, but rules are not made on the guarantee of things, but the likelihood.

No one is claiming that all homosexuals are pedophiles. We are simply using common sense to do what we can to protect the Boy Scouts.

The Boy Scouts are in exactly ZERO danger of being sexually assaulted by heterosexual leaders.

This is a simple fact.

Male Boy Scout leaders are males.
Boy scouts are males.
Heterosexuals are attracted to females, and only females.

There are few guarantees in life, but this is one of them: No heterosexual has ever, nor will ever, sexually abuse a boy Scout.

Again, no one is saying that all homosexuals would be a danger. But the risk is significantly higher than for heterosexual leaders(exactly 0% risk).

Perhaps if a man would like to be involved in Boy Scouts he could work in a Scout office store? Or maybe in some other position?

For scout safety, a leadership position is simply not plausible.

Again, when scout safety is first, this makes perfect sense.

I hope this man receives the help he needs.

Christopher.B
Salt Lake, UT

An adult male that is attracted other males, whether they be 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, or 18 does change who he is. There no doubt have been countless men, likely this man in this case, that have been attracted to males of many ages. Someone doesn't change from a pedophile and into a homosexual, simply because the people he is attracted to are growing older.

The Boy Scouts wants to include all who wish to help, but cannot do so at any cost.

Scout safety is paramount.

I encourage those who support scout safety to realize the inherent dangers that people with same gender attracttions cause, even if their intentions are most likely innocent.

Christopher.B
Salt Lake, UT

Lets consider a hypothetical for a moment, which should be a clear explanation of why the Boy Scouts is so careful about their leaders.

And how, if the Boy Scouts knew this man better, would not have allowed him to be a Scout Leader.

Is it possible that a homosexual man who wishes to be a scout leader is attracted to 19 year old males? What about 18.5 year old males? 17.3 year old males? 16.9 year old males? 14.5 year old males? 18.0 year old males? 17.7 year old males?

The answer to all of these is yes, and to all ages in between.

It would be ludicrous to believe someone attracted to males wouldn't have found that same person attractive just a few years earlier.

No heterosexual male has ever been attracted to a Boy Scout of any age. Ever. The same cannot be said for others.

Please please please, lets all work together to protect the boy Scouts.

And protecting them means accepting reality and who people are.

to comment

DeseretNews.com encourages a civil dialogue among its readers. We welcome your thoughtful comments.
About comments