Published: Wednesday, Sept. 25 2013 12:00 a.m. MDT
If Medicare is constitutional, Obamacare is constitutional. The Supreme Court
says both are. That's good enough for me, and for the vast majority of
The attempt to spin the founders as creating a constitution that would never
allow for health care for everyone is getting mythical. Did the pioneers come to
Utah to escape the Affordable Care Act?
The first part of the Constitution was the effort of the proponents of the
American nation to prove up on the promises they made in the Declaration of
Independence. The second part, the Bill of Rights, came from the
negotiation with the colony governments who wanted their own freedom from
outside intervention. The purpose of the Bill of Rights was to allow the
colony governments to rule their citizens according to their own religion and
desires. The colonies wanted to renege on the promises of the Declaration
of Independence. I think that as people begin to realize the actual
manner in which the Constitution was put together, they may be more hesitant to
blindly pledge their support. The Constitution that I learned about in school
is not the same as now interpreted by conservatives.
The Constitution is merely a nuisance anymore. The Supreme Courts throughout the
past many decades have found mystical rights in it that ordinary people would
never have extracted. They wear robes, but maybe they should be wearing
wizards' hats, too. In truth, the court has become a virtual rubber stamp
for popular legislation, regardless of whether or not it conflicts with the
Constitution the way us ordinary people understand it.
As Americans we need a government of the people for the people; not a mess of
squabbling, privately owned colony governments sometimes referred to as states.
We need to eliminate state governments and a whole bunch of tiny
So there you have it. Ultra Bob's only problem with Big Government is that
it's not big enough or intrusive enough. Patience, Bob, patience.
We're getting there, sure as anything. The Supreme Court is on your side.
Now that government has taken the next step in providing a "basic human
right" in mandating health insurance on everyone whether they want it or
not, what is next?Everyone should have a "basic human right"
to food, clothing, shelter, and employment too. Shall we next pass legislation
in which the government provides everyone a house, the latest fashion designs,
the equivalent to school lunch for everyone, and a government job?Where does it end? Please liberals, tell me something that the government
should NOT provide.
@JoeCapitalistI'm a liberal, I don't need the government selling
me booze. But that's a different argument. My question to you is do you
know we are paying for peoples healthcare right now? Because hospitals
can't turn sick people away many of them are treated in the ER, and most
don't pay. But it's not like hospitals provide this care for free,
they just raise the rates for insurance companies, who also don't stop
making money, so they pass the cost on to you. Conservatives don't like the
ACA but don't have an alternative. The healthcare system is broken, going
back to what we had before won't work either. So get on the train or come
up with a better idea yourselves. But you can't, because the ACA is classic
conservative free market economics. In my opinion we should go to a swiss
system, where a basic healthcare plan is provided by the government, but
supplemental plans are easily available in the free market. So pretty much
Medicare for all.
The current health system is broken because it is an outgrowth of government
intervention during World War II when wage and price controls were in effect. We
haven't had any kind of free market in health care since that time. The
choice between government-provided care and the current system is one between
awful and horrendous.
How many would complain if their mortgage lender changed the mortgage contract
unilaterally? How many would complain if the contractor, who was building them
a new home, decided to double the price without their approval?We
have contracts so that all parties know what is expected of them. The federal
government is only one level of government. We have restricted the authority of
that level, preferring to have other levels of government handle other needs.
We have authorized the federal government to protect the States from invasion.
At least six of the seventeen enumerated duties that we have allocated to the
federal government deal with the military. We've given the federal
government limited authority to regulate interstate commerce so that large
states cannot prey upon small states. There are a few other duties that we have
authorized the federal government to perform. All other duties are to be
handled by the States or by the people. That is orderly. That is
understandable. That keeps coniving politicians from buying votes. That keeps
irresponsible citizens from passing their personal welfare to others.No good comes from ignoring contracts. The Constitution protects us.
Interpreting the Constitution is an adventure in real-life politics and
real-life issues, not the imaginary world inhabited by some who insist on a
strict interpretation (which is still an interpretation) of the grand old
document. We all disagree with some Supreme Court decisions, but why should that
surprise us? I happen to be glad that both Medicare and the ACA have been
declared constitutional. I am not so happy about the Supreme Court's
declaration that corporations "are people too," to put it in Mitt's
unfortunate words. The ramifications of that old decision has had a greater
impact on American society than practically any Court edict, ever. It's one
we really ought to revisit.
SEY,Allowing the free market to run rampant in health care would be
a disaster of the greatest proportion. As has been pointed out repeatedly by
sane individuals, the market simply is not suited to deal with health care. It
would exclude tens of millions of people from getting care they desperately
need; it would price some services out of almost everyone's reach; and it
would offer dangerously low-quality care to those who can't afford Cadillac
care. Oh, wait, isn't that what we have already? Why? Not because
government is involved, but because the market is too involved. The only
health-care systems that work reasonably well are those that are tightly
controlled or run by government. Have you ever wondered why there is no system
in the entire world that operates on free-market principles? It ain't
because the free market works too well.
SEY.You will be governed by big government. If you weaken our
federal government by silly limitations from 250 years ago, your next big
government might be Chinese or Mexican or Catholic or Walmart or etc.JoeCapitalist2.There are no golden rules that limit what people
can ask their government to do. People can ask their government to do anything
the people want so long as the people can pay for it and it is possible to
accomplish. The reason private enterprise is against government is
because government has the job to control private enterprise. Small governments
are easily controlled by the giants of the world. The American federal
government is the last best chance for people to have freedoms and rights. It
can only secure those things if it is bigger than the other giants.
There is a method that solves the problem for everybody. That method is to
amend the Constitution when the people desire to give more authority to the
federal government. That process keeps the government honest and it keeps the
people from making unauthorized demands on the federal government.If
75% of the States want the Federal level of government to handle healthcare,
then they can petition Congress to start the process. That's not what
happened. One man wanted to change health care. He bribed and bullied
Democrats to accept his program. The Republicans refused to go along with him,
knowing they were not authorized to meddle in personal welfare. After buying
off Louisiana and making concessions to Nebraska and fiddling with the rules,
ObamaCare was passed after 59% of the people told Obama that they didn't
want ObamaCare to pass. He cared not at all about the will of the people. The
Democrats who passed that bill cared not at all about the people.Abiding by the Constitution would have kept Obama in check. Now, he will hurt
the most needy by shutting down the government to save his
"ObamaCare".And we're a civilized country when law is
The enumeration of powers, according to Hamilton, was intended to emphasize the
fed's authority in certain areas. But the elastic clause along with Article
1.8's stem clause "provide for the general welfare" means that the
Fed gov't had sweeping powers from the beginning, as even George Washington
recognized. This constitutional argument is getting silly.
John Adams had socialized healthcare for a sector of naval workers, 215 years
And the debate goes on between those who think that their personal welfare
should be included in the general welfare clause. They obviously don't
know where their driveway ends and where the public road begins or where their
house's sewer line ends and the public hookup begins or who should pay for
their groceries or their rent or their cell phones or their doctor visits.Do liberals really want their personal responsibility to be handled by
people in other states? Have they abandoned all personal liability so that they
can get "what they deserve" from some "rich guy" that Obama told
them to fleece because that "rich guy" worked harder and profited more
than they did while they whined and moaned about how they needed help wiping
Lew Scannon: do the best solutions always prevail in the economy? Does the mere
presence of a program indicate its excellence or the non-presence of a competing
program prove its inferiority? The real reason you haven't seen a genuine
free market health solution is because the large corporations and government
agencies would become disempowered, and they'll have none of that! Ron Paul
has promoted some very workable solutions that I'm sure you're not
aware of in which Big Pharma, the AMA and government are not the primary
beneficiaries, but consumers are.
Abraham Lincoln relied on the general welfare clause to emancipate the slaves.
"The intent was that power be confined to well defined limits, among three
branches, to ensure individual freedom in perpetuity." ========== Both the House and the Senate passed ACA.The
President of the united States signed the ACA.The Supreme Court of the
united States has upheld the ACA.What 3 branches of the Government
did we miss?Why are you trampling the Constitution?
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