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Comments about ‘Reasons to stay: What faith communities do to attract and keep young adults’

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Published: Friday, Sept. 20 2013 8:45 p.m. MDT

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Lightening Lad
Austin , TX

There are significant reasons churches are losing the young. 1-The insanity of putting the words of ancient men over proven science, with the incredible myths such as Noah's Ark/Flood covering the world. I can easily give you 1000 solid reasons why this never happened yet on Sunday you go to church and hear the same old baloney contrary to what is taught to kids in school. Not to mention the 5000 BC date of the creation. I have seen a 400,000 yr history of this earth in ice cores, 1000's of meters long. The earth is old never has there been a world wide flood. 2-The music, the hymns used were mainly written in the 17-19th centuries or borrowed music from that period, there is no salvation in old dusty hymns, updating has to be done to keep the kids. Why LDS services HAVE to sing these hymns at have the beats per minute dragging the best hymns into an unreconozable mess is beyond me, pick it up folks. 3-80 yr olds are running most churches, and you wonder why the kids leave. What do 80yr old men know about 21st century culture?

ClarkHippo
Tooele, UT

@Lightening Lad

As a Latter-day Saint, I can tell you there are aspects of our understanding of the creation which actually come close to what you believe. For one thing, we do not believe the earth and the solar system were created from nothing. We believe all things were created from matter which already existed, albeit in a different form. So when scientists talk about fossils or earth elements which date back to several million years ago, that does not conflict with or contradict any LDS teachings.

As for Noah’s Ark, scriptures obviously don’t give us the complete story of this, nor any other event. I believe everyone, believers and non-believers alike need to understand this. Imagine how silly it would be if someone said, “I refuse to flip on a light switch until I can see with my own eyes the actual electricity run up the wall, across the roof and travel directly into the light bulb.”

Yet it seems that is exactly how a lot of people approach questions regarding creation and belief in God.

ClarkHippo
Tooele, UT

@Lightening Lad

As for the church hymns, I seriously doubt there are scores of people who stay away from church simply because of the music. I have yet to hear about anyone who chose to stop attending church simply because the hymns dragged out to long.

You said, "...there is no salvation in old dusty hymns, updating has to be done to keep the kids."

In other words, churches should throw away any spiritual aspect of worship services and instead focus on making them entertaining.

Is substituting the equivalent of Beethoven and Mozart with the likes of Eminem and Miley Cyrus considered progress?

You said, "What do 80yr old men know about 21st century culture?"

You're absolutely right. Those old foggies who lived through the Great Depression, World War II, the Korean War as well as the 1960's and 70's, what do they know about anything?

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Allowing Democrats into congregations would go a long way...

the truth
Holladay, UT

@Lightening Lad

What proven science?

Building religious straw men then tearing them down doesn't prove a thing.

By the way the "5000 BC date of the creation" is widely misunderstood.

'Creation' literally means 'organization'.

That means the current state of earth was ORAGANIZED 6000 (not 5000) years ago,

not that the earth was created (organized for men) 6000 (not 5000) years ago.

The true widely held view of religion is they do know, and it is not important to our salvation, and that man was a purposeful creation not a random event.

And science only determines age on how long they THINK something took to happen.

What if their assumption is wrong? They have changed it several times before.

Science is not infallible either.

And basing science on assumption and supposition and may haves, and might haves, and could possibly haves,

is just bad science.

A Scientist
Provo, UT

Interesting graphic accompanying this story.

Non-denominational and Other "faith communities" have far more youth than any of the more well-known ("branded") faith communities.

And those numbers don't even count the "Nones", atheists and agnostics, which many experts estimate are almost one quarter of the population!

If believers aspire to convert the world, you must be very discouraged by the data showing you are going backward!

Joshua H.
Bountiful, Utah

Wow, LDSliberal must never attend his/her church meetings. Many Democrats walk the halls of lds churches every sunday. Red Corvette seems to think that the LDS church doesn't "Welcome" gays. Again, someone who probably hasn't seen the inside of an LDS church for years. LightningLad has a problem that the LDS church congregations singing "old" hymns...again, someone who probably hasn't been inside an LDS church to hear what they teach in years. Why would someone put any stalk in what people like this are saying when there are many many MANY active, LDS people who could tell you exactly what was taught in their LDS church just yesteray? If you want information about what the LDS church teaches then visit their website, it's actually pretty nice. The church also has missionaries that would be excited to come see you and discuss the teachings of the church. LDSLiberal, RedCorvette, and LightningLad seeem to have a chip on their shoulders and are willing to spread untruths about what the church teaches and that is sad.

JoeBlow
Far East USA, SC

"'Creation' literally means 'organization'.

That means the current state of earth was ORAGANIZED 6000 (not 5000) years ago, "

And this "wisdom" is based on what?

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@the truth
It's not as applicable to the LDS members, but there are plenty of people in this nation that believe the Earth is less than 10,000 years old. An evangelical friend of mine gave me a tape from some speaker (that amusingly has since been arrested for some sort of fraud) where he was trying to explain why the Earth is so young. I suspect that a third of southerners believe the Earth is 10k years old or less.

@Joshua H.
"Many Democrats walk the halls of lds churches every sunday."

8% of church members consider themselves liberal or very liberal according to a Gallup poll (lowest among all faiths they studied for the US). LDS Liberal was not being literal in suggesting there were none, but the number is quite low. A liberal friend of mine (still a member) once lamented to me that it seemed like I was the only liberal she knew that was still part of the church (and then I left a year later). There is a lot of judging that gets directed towards Democrats. I've been told to repent over Iraq, abortion, gay marriage, and health reform.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@the truth
"By the way the "5000 BC date of the creation" is widely misunderstood.
'Creation' literally means 'organization'.
That means the current state of earth was ORAGANIZED 6000 (not 5000) years ago,"

Your statement is not as extreme as saying nothing was created until 6000 years ago, but it still heavily contrasts with the fossil record which shows that there is plenty of evidence that humans existed on this planet more than 6000 years ago.

Gildas
LOGAN, UT

The mission of the church is to convert the people, and not for the people do convert the church.

I am reminded of a saying presented by George Bernard Shaw in one of his prefaces if I remember right:

The conversion of savages to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery.

Personally I would be less extreme than Mr Shaw; I would say it "could" involve such an undesired counter-conversion. To some extent wild and tame olive branches come to mind; you have to be careful to get the right mix of youthful vigor and time tested morality.

Joshua H.
Bountiful, Utah

@Alt134
I am sorry that you have misunderstood the teachings of the LDS church. I'm sure I speak for "the church" when I say you are always welcome back and you're missed while you are gone.
With that said, You need to understand that the doctrines of the church does not waiver in the wind of public opinion. Truth is eternal and just because the majority of the nation embraces the immorality of gay relationships doesn't mean the church should change a doctrine that dates back to the beginning of mankind. You would be wrong if you think it is ok in the eyes of God for homosexuals to marry and fornicate. You would be wrong to think that it's ok to murder a baby that was concieved by the willful actions of a woman. There is nothing malicious about what I am saying and there was probably no ill will on the part of those that you say called you to repentance. They, as I, were probably just stating doctrinal facts and you shouldn't be offended by that. You should ponder truth, not get offended by it.

JoeBlow
Far East USA, SC

"You need to understand that the doctrines of the church does not waiver in the wind of public opinion"

Can you not think of any instances where that statement did not hold true?

the truth
Holladay, UT

@JoeBlow

That comes from the ancient Hebrew it was written in.

@atl134

Nothing in the bible says creatures couldn't have existed in previous states of the earth, they just have nothing to do with this state.

Kingsman
Salt Lake City, UT

The other reasons why youth are leaving the churches are basically that most public academic institutions in the US are mandated, by law, to adopt what is, at least an agnosticism, or atheistic stance towards the sciences. This has forced them to teach things not well thought out, that are essentially half truths. These include "The Big Bang Theory"-that violates the inviolable-at least half a dozen natural laws. Another is in regard to a violation of celestial mechanics and the existence of our Moon-the moon rotates on it's axis at a 17 degree differential to the rotation of that of the earth-nothing being taught regarding the existence of the Moon can account for this. Still another is the supposed "dinosaur extinction event" wherein, it is taught that a large meteorite smashed into the Earth, extinguishing the dinosaurs, but leaving some animals alive-this would have thrown enough material nto the atmosphere to have made it pitch dark for hundreds of years-no animal life would have survived!

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@Joshua H.
"just because the majority of the nation embraces the immorality of gay relationships doesn't mean the church should change a doctrine that dates back to the beginning of mankind."

Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't think the church should change it.

"They, as I, were probably just stating doctrinal facts"

I was told by an Institute instructor that the Iraq war was a holy war against Islam and that opposing it would be going against the Prophet. I was told that my support for healthcare reform (this was pre-2008 election so there wasn't actually an Obamacare then) was against the church. Those aren't church positions though they were both claimed to be by the members criticizing me for it.

Kingsman
Salt Lake City, UT

For some reason my first comment was not posted, but to continue with the last post as to educational causes as to why young people are leaving the churches.

As I said, educational institutions are often teaching things that are half truths or even a total fabrication, for example, all evolutionary theories of beginnings have to do with blind, random chance. Louis Pasteur gave excellent proofs that "spontaneous generation" does not work, and Mendel's research also showed that randomness does not work, nor create positive cross genus, phyla, or kind changes a possibility. These only come about as a result of input of great amounts of intelligent, directed, information. IE., evolutionary theorum, in any of it's forms cannot account for the world we see over any amount of time billions, or even trillions of years. Even thoughts regarding "panspermia"are intolerable considering that this just pushes back the threshold, and still does not alter the trillions of variants that must be accounted for.

I have chosen not to defend my beliefs here, but only to expose a few of the lies that are stealing youth from our churches. We need to be well educated to counter these.

The Scientist
Provo, UT

Kingsman wrote:

"The other reasons why youth are leaving the churches are basically that most public academic institutions in the US are mandated, by law, to adopt what is, at least an agnosticism, or atheistic stance towards the sciences."

That is a lie.

Professors have academic freedom in their classrooms. What keeps scientists from teaching creationism or a "theistic" stance toward science is reason, logic, empirical evidence, and peer review. If a scientist with the credentials and publication track record can convince her fellow scientists of the importance and relevance of theistic perspectives in science, then she can and will be able to teach such things in her classes.

Religion is rare in science, not because of some grand conspiracy motivated by satan, but because truth prevails in science, thereby pushing out superstition, irrationality, and nonsense.

Lowonoil
Clearfield, UT

Churches and cigarette companies are facing similar problems attracting the young to replace thier current aging customers. I am not wishing either of them success.

raybies
Layton, UT

I thought it was interesting that our youth don't need drums and guitars in order to attend in large numbers. I think that need for drums and guitars is indicative of the cultural influences on our youth in general, and the quest to be popular over spiritual.

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