We need more byu fans who support Utah.Utah is the premier program
in the state and is the only program in the last several decades who has proven
they can be a top 5 program.byu fans need to be more like usu fans.
USU fans know they will never be on Utah's level and they support us as the
premier program in the state.byu fans should do the same
Don't worry, we'll play well enough.Why do I believe
that?We have better athletes.Says who? Bronco apparently.EVERY year the last 3 years since our Pac 12
invite when you look at which kids with Utah and byu offers, you'll see
that more often than not, the kids picked Utah.UtahUtahUtahThat is a fact.Bronco wanted the kids by virtue of
offering them.And most picked Utah.
I have many reasons to appreciate the University of Utah as a prestigious local
school and provider of my financial means. The establishment of the school was
founded by none other than the great Brigham Young and continues to be a
fortress of wonderful academic programs along with participation in many sports.
I must admire the advances made at the U's medical school and particularly
the Huntsman Cancer Institute for being a national leader in finding a cure.
Perhaps the contention is mainly created by an underlining religious division.
This thought is in my opinion immature and a bit obnoxious as both schools have
been quintessential examples of higher education facilities and both founded by
LDS leaders with many of the student body being members of the LDS church. In my family, we have fans on both sides and still enjoy the competitive
nature between the athletic teams. Sure the U has the opportunity to recruit
more players because it is a public school without an honor code, but that
doesn't mean that the students, players, and coaches do not live up to the
standards set by the original founders.Go Cougars!
Chris, I'm just glad BYU gets the privilege of playing such a high caliber
team this year. And as always I'm honored with the respect you pay my alma
mater by including it in the same conversation as The University of Utah, proud
member of the Pacific 12 Conference. I will miss your comments during the next
two years of hiatus, and would love it if you could continue to comment on BYU
article during that time.
@ChrisB, let's let the words of Gene Wojciechowski from espn this morning
sum up what the world thinks of the BYU v Utah rivalry game:"As
compelling and riveting as last Saturday's games were, this week's
matchups are as exciting as a zucchini festival. In other words, it's the
perfect Thursday-Saturday to clean your crawl space."I really
hope Utah and BYU can play well this weekend, but I'm expecting much from
the U. This is their bowl game, as even winning it the U will have a tough hill
to climb just to hit 6 wins. A BYU loss puts them still at least 7 wins on the
season. So here's to hoping the U clings to what little remains of their
season after the Oregon State loss.
Chris, I would hardly call your flash in the pan success from 2004-2008
prestigious. Answer this question for me. If Utah is such a national powerhouse
and if they really have superior recruits and if they are really all you say
they are, then why can they not succeed in the PAC-12? I think Utah
will eventually get it together and start fielding competitive teams in their
"prestigious" conference, but I would appreciate that your comments this
season reflect what Utah's program really is, a struggling PAC-12 team. It
has been this way since they have entered the PAC-12. And I would hardly call
their performance vs. BYU in the past 3 years as dominant. In two of those games
it could have gone either way.
Great article. Remember the word "Fan" is short for "fanatic."
A good humored fanatic is much more appreciated than an obnoxious, overbearing
foul-mouthed one. There are some on both sides. I have been to BYU games where
sometimes I've have had a miserable experience because of my own BYU fans.
There is nothing uglier than an LDS man acting like a anger-crazed lunatic. On
the other hand, I will NEVER go to a Utah home game again because I honestly
don't feel safe after some unsettling experiences there. The same with
Utah State. It's a real shame. I've been to many away games across
the country where the fans of that school treated us with nothing but kindness
and respect, along with the good-natured ribbing. Wish we could do that here in
this state where most profess to believe in a God that cares about character and
how we treat each other.
Honestly, we Utah fans need less fans like Chris B. The rivalry game is great,
and I love the Utes. I never miss a home game, and am a season ticket holder.
I loved this article. I have never understood why the game has to bring out the
worst in so many people. I share friendly barbs with my co-workers and friends
that are BYU fans, and I sure hope Utah mops the floor with the Cougs. In the
end though, the game has no impact on the things that are important in my life
(family, friends, religion, etc.). I would hope that we can all be respectful
this week and enjoy some great football! Go UTES!
@sunshiner - I've attended a few big profile away games, the '97
Cotton Bowl and BYU vs Florida State in Jacksonville in 2000. Both games had
the few oddballs, drunk FSU fans fighting with each other, KState fans in our
faces before the game started. But you're right, for the most part the
fans of other teams left us alone and celebrated good games from both teams.
KState fans were even kind after BYU won that game. It's time BYU and Utah
fans looked for competitive contests and good, fair play. Maybe now that there
isn't a conference championship on the line it can get more civil.
Chris, Chris, Chris, Always the king of hyperbole...Since you
asked, BYU has had a top five finish "in the last several decades". In
fact, assuming several means more than two, I believe there is that small issue
of a national championship within that time frame.And as you brought
up "the last several decades" as the measuring stick, did you want to
discuss and compare top 25 final rankings?Truth be told, the Utes
did have a nice run in the last decade but looking at where things are today as
a bottom dweller in their new conference, it's tough to believe there is
much bragging to do.Now, before you fall back to your familiar
refrain of Cougar fans always living in the past, remember it was you who
brought the past into the discussion.
JEJ,Why has Utah struggled in the Pac 12?Are you
seriously asking this? I can explain simple concepts to you, but I can't
understand them for you.You do know that Utah doesn't play byu
12 times a year right?If we did, our record would be much better.WE play Pac 12 teams who have typically even better recruiting than we
do.Thanks for helping to further prove my point that recruiting
matters.Did you really not understand this simple concept?
JEJ,I'm trying to think of the simplest way to explain this to
you, why Utah has struggled in the Pac 12.Better athletes often lead
to better team.Utah is better than byu with a main reason being we
have better athletes.Now why do you think Utah has struggled in the
Pac 12?Pac 12 teams are often better than Utah, who in turn is
usually better than byu.Maybe this will help:Most Pac 12
teams > Utah > byuThat help?
Simple solution - both teams can wear purple
Nice article.And Chris never fails to let us down, and act with
class as the article suggests.Chris, do you have season tickets to
Utah games to cheer your team on, or do you have season tickets to BYU just to
boo the team?
@sunshiner Obviously you have never had the pleasure of attending a BYU game in
the state of Wyoming. I think those folks think we ruined their glass lands
when we trekked our way to Utah.They treat the visiting BYU fans
with disrespect from the time we walk in until they can see the taillights
leaving the state.I am not sure of all the reasons we chose
independence when we did, but not playing in Laramie every other year has to be
high on the list.Foul language and thrown whisky bottles were just
two of the things I didn't like about attending games there. The only good
thing I can remember is winning almost all the games. I guess crudeness
doesn't add points for your side.I hope that 5% of the people
don't ruin a great game for everybody else this week.
Jej"if they really have superior recruits and if they are really
all you say they are, then why can they not succeed in the PAC-12?"Who did I say Utah had superior recruits to? byuComparing Utah's record against Pac 12 only further proves my point. Pac
12 teams on average have even better recruits than Utah; thus Utah's
struggles in the Pac 12.I only ever said Utah has superior recruits
to byu.Did you really not understand that?
JEJ,Answer me this, what does Utah's Pac 12 record have to do
with my claim that Utah is better than byu because we have better athletes?But yes, let's go along with your failed attempt to disprove what
I'm saying, you only further PROVE my point.Pac 12 teams
typically have better recruiting than Utah, so it makes perfect sense that Utah
has struggled.We don't play byu 12 times a year.Simple concept really. Not really sure what part you couldn't
understand?Here is another way to look at it:Average Pac
12 team > Utah > byuThat help clear things up? Again,
I'm not sure how I wasn't clear about my point from the beginning, but
I hope this helps clear up what was a very simple concept to begin with.
I don't believe Utah has superior athletes but I believe Texas did. Here is
something else I believe....When it comes to football, Utah did
experience a few years of "flash in the pan" success but it never
replaced BYU as the most recognizable and celebrated football and athletic
program in Utah and it never will because of BYU Football's relationship
with LDS Church.The football program, the Tabernacle Choir and the
LDS Humanitarian Center are not only programs that provide entertainment and in
the case of the Humanitarian Center, life changing services, but they are also
effective missionary tools. As long as the football program is an
effective missionary tool, its funding will continue and it will CONTINUE to be
the program that garners more media attention (ESPN, BYUTV, KSL, Deseret News)
locally and nationally than any other in the state and the culture at BYU will
continue to attract world class athletes from around the world who share similar
values.Face it Mr. B, BYU is not going anywhere. It is only getting
better and stronger.
Despite christy's frantic and emotional spamming:LifetimeTop 25 FinishesBYU 18Utah 7AP Top 25 FinishesBYU
17Utah 5Top 12 FinishesBYU 8Utah 3Bronco/Kyle EraTop 25 FinishesBronco 5Kyle 3AP
Top 25 FinishesBronco 4Kyle 2Top 15 FinishesBronco
3Kyle 1----And, the all importantLifetime #1 FinishesBYU 1Utah 0Utah's best was
only 2nd best (in one poll)
Snack WAC,I have no problem acknowledging byu's history, and
overall byu has solid football history. I think 20 years from now
most of those numbers will be the same for byu and will have improved
significantly more for Utah. I just don't think byu is committed to
winning like Utah is. Bronco himself states he cares more about building
bishops than he does winning football team. I'll also take
Kyle's success over Bronco's anyday, and I think most fans would.
Everyone in the country remembers Utah's undefeated seasons, and Utah
beating Alabama in a BCS Bowl.No one remembers byu being ranked 22nd
or 19th or whatever they have been a few times.An undefeated season
as the only undefeated team in the country, with a BCS bowl win over Alabama is
worth way more than a couple 20-25th ranked teams.It seems that
byu's peak these days is being ranked around 20th. And bronco is ok with
that. Whittingham has done better. And will do better
@ Chris B, ChristopherB, 2013 Ute Seniors SWEEP byU 4-0, Hedgehog (and a couple
of others) - How many monikers do U have? @ Abefroman22 - Very good
perspective.I do cheer for the Utes in every game except against the
Cougs and the Aggies. In fact, I hope everyone of our opponents goes 11-1. It
does BYU no good when we beat the Utes, and they finish 2-10. With that said, I
hope the Cougs win 55-10, but expecting it will be within a TD.I do
not like the arrogant, we are superior, attitude that comes out from some Ute
fans. Were U a superior team in 2010 and 2012? No, U got the win, but those
were very even games. The Cougs outplayed U in 2010, but U got a couple of
breaks (bad call by ref on fumble and blocked kick) and got the win. U slightly
outplayed BYU in 2012, but if Nelson doesn't fumble, U lose. There was no superior recruiting or athletic ability in either game. At least
try to be a little objective.
Alterego,Isn't it interesting that Bronco wanted quite a few of
Utah's recruits and more often than not those recruits DIDN'T want
bronco and byu
Question for Chris B or whatever other name he posts under. Does Utah
have better athletes than Texas?
@YayhooNo but better than Virginia.None of that will
matter. Two pretty evenly matched teams. It could go down to who ever get's
a key break or two. I would not be suprised by either team winning. I will be
suprised if it's not a close game though. I see the margin of victory
Yayhoo,No, Utah does not have better athletes than texas. You
people keep trying to trap me as if I'd said "the higher stars win
every single game ever"I've never said anything of the
sort. Coaching matters a lot. Other things influence outcomes as well.
I've simply only ever said that recruiting is VERY important.You think Nick Saban would be winning national championships if he had byu
The world according to Chris B....Number of stars per Texas recruit
> Number of stars per Utah recruit ergo Texas defensive front
seven > Utah's front seven ergoUtah front seven will not
stop the BYU running game and BYU wins convincingly. Thanks for
clearing that up Chris.
Only in Mr. B's head does past performance (Utah 3-0 vs. BYU) mean
Utah’s success will continue this year; after all, Texas out-recruits BYU
year after year and BYU still won, convincingly. Chris, your
formula has been officially blown up and you are losing credibility faster than
Alterego,I've only said better recruiting often leads to better
teams.Recruiting mattersCoaching mattersInjuries
matterMental Preparation mattersTeam Chemistry mattersI've also never said that past performance means Utah will win.I've only said we've had better recruiting which typicall(not
always) translates to better teams and better results.I ask
again:You think Nick Saban would have multiple champiohships with
College football according to byu fans:"It doesn't matter
how talented players are, the only thing that matters is how good a coach is and
how much they execute and say the word execute in press conferences. Teams
really don't even need to find the best talent because all players have
equal talent and it all comes down to coaching. Nick Saban would be winning
national championships even with all 1-2 star players"
christyKyle did indeed have one great season. The Utes peaked in
2008, but have been in steady decline since.Bronco has had three
very good, 11-win, Top 15 seasons, which, incidentally, is more 11-win seasons
than the Utes have had in their entire history.Since Utah's
flash-in-the-pan success in 2008,BYU has been ranked #12 and #25.Utah has been ranked #18 and #23.Everyone in the country remembers
BYU pounding Texas just a couple of weeks ago.Everyone in the
country remembers BYU beating Oklahoma in Cowboys Stadium.Nobody in
the country remembers a thing about Utah since the Sugar Bowl.Utah
just lost at home to the 2nd or 3rd worst PAC12 opponent on its schedule and is
on the verge of a 2nd straight losing season and no bowl. Good luck on selling
new recruits on the "advantages" of playing for a big boy conference
school that can't even qualify for a bowl. The Utes haven't beaten a
single PAC12 opponent with a winning record since joining the conference.For all your talk, U certainly haven't walked the walk.
@Alterego,Even as a BYU fan, I think you're letting your
dislike for Chris B to cloud your reasoning. It is rare, but I think Chris is
stating a very clear and true point. I'll take a better recruiting class
over a worse recruiting class all day long. Coaching is a piece of the puzzle,
but to deny athletic ability as being a key piece of the puzzle is ludicrous.
And while rating services often miss, the overall get it about right. That is
all Chris is saying here. I can't tell if you're purposely misquoting
him or you truly don't believe better athletes usually make better teams?
Snack PACLet's not forget that the Oklahoma team that BYU beat
in the Jerry Dome was loaded with NFL talent; 3 of the first 4 picks in the 2009
NFL draft were Sooners, including #1 overall Sam Bradford, whom Max Hall
outplayed in the 1st half.Lifetime, BYU is 5-1 versus Texas(3-1) and
Oklahoma(2-0), including wins in 2009 and 2013.
Chris B,No trap intended. It was just a simple question to show that your
argument doesn't hold up.
@Spokane UteI agree.
@Chis B. .."only program in the last several decades that can be a top 5
program"? Where do you get this stuff? The utes didn't
arrive on the map of any recognition until 2004. How can you possibly say that
and expect to have any credibility?What an arrogant, slanted,
misguided, outright false and pretentious post.If you really want to
use the last couple of decades as the litmus line then get in line behind BYU
because they have, over the last 40 years, been much closer and more consistent
that U have. I'll give you 2004, 2008. What else have U got?
2013 Ute Seniors SWEEP byU 4-0Ogden, UTWith BYU's honor code
and higher academic standards, there will always be a disparity in recruiting.
But that's not something Utah should brag about. Just win your games, or
lose them as is often the case, and act like a gracious foe.
Impossible to prove, but I think many of BYU's recruits are under-rated as
far as stars. Committing early to BYU, especially for LDS recruits, discourages
further recruiting by many teams, and there's no question that simply
having alot of teams showing interest in a player tends to push a players
ranking higher. Even without an offer, having a team like USC showing interest
can push a player's "star" power up a notch or two.In a
way, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.Elite program recruits
player; player's stars go up; elite program signs player with lots of
stars. Some pan out. Some are busts. On further evaluation, maybe
some of those 4- and 5-star recruits were really only 2- or 3-star players in
the first place.NBA teams can't even define the Top 75
basketball prospects from 300+ teams, yet we really expect the recruiting
services to accurately evaluate each of the tens of thousands of high school
players playing on thousands of high school teams, many of whom are still
maturing and will be late bloomers?
@ Chris BYour going to have to change your name from:"2013 Ute Seniors SWEEP byU 4-0"To something else after
@Spokane Ute to @Yayhoo "No but better than Virginia."Ok,
lets run you logic through the same guantlet.U lost to OSU (in great
weather) and OSU lost to who? A DivII team? I'm pretty sure that team was
not better than Virginia.
Finally. This article was needed a long time ago. Keep reprinting this every day
and have one sent to Chris B's email inbox until he "get's it"
along with other trash talkers on both sides.
killarney,Right on all accounts. However, I think the recruiting of
most Western teams is under rated by the services, that includes both BYU and
Utah and many other teams. College recruiting is not an exact science, but the
overall picture that is painted is pretty darn accurate. Services miss on
individual players, but get the big picture right.
@Surfs UpWhy do you call everyone "arrogant" that has a
differn't opinion then you? I believe the term un-informed or outlandish is
more accurate. Why the term "crickets"? As if you have posted something
so profound that it can't be countered? Ease up Fella.
@SurferWell, I guess we are going to find out who's better come
Saturday night now aren't we? Playing connect the dots is one thing,
beating your rival on the playing field is another.
@Spokane Ute Did you read Chris B's first post? Do you read any of them?
Then, unless English is a new language to you the word "arrogant" pretty
much describes his attitude as it relates to Utah vs BYU? (but doesn't like
to go into the real of basketball much).Are you so in-the-tank'
for Chris, and or the U of U program that you are are willing to be so obtuse
that would risk losing what little credibilty you have by being offended? I
didn't say all Ute fans are arrogant. I won't paint you all with the
same brush. But there are a few who continually post to all BYU articles with
the same "arrogant" nonsense.Besides I believe it was you
who brought the word up in a post not but a day ago.
If the U had been more successful over the past 40 years they'd have an
expanded stadium. They've had recent successes, which are seen in the
stadium upgrades in the planning and recently completed (and don't include
the upgrades done for the 2002 Olympics). And you'd think the U will have
to come up with something now that they're in the PAC12, a 45k seat stadium
just isn't going to keep up.
SurferI don't read his posts. Why would anyone? Nor will I
read, or respond, to yours in the future. I enjoy a spirited debate and a little
back in forth; which seems to have upset you. Also, I minored in English. Have a
Wow Alterego...LDS Church the difference? What about Notre Dame? When BYU
plays Notre Dame I don't know what to do....I would like them both to lose
zero to zero in an infinite overtime.
Great article!Winning is about gaining respect and building trust.
It has little to do with putting down the opponents or throwing insults at
them.How will we feel in 20 years about the things we say or write
@Chris B.Nick Saban said on national TV that each team plays on the
same triangle field last week. I am not sure he should be called a coaching
genius. He is a recruiter that gets the best players available. If he had
lesser talent he would be destroyed by the other teams in the SEC that had it.
I was driving along foothill boulevard last week and the car in front of me had
an interesting window sticker, underneath a big red U, it said "YH8R"
(e.g. - Y Hater). I could have rear ended the guy I guess as a gesture of my
dislike of his use of the hate acronym. If I would have done that, I would have
been viewed as a jerk by my employer (University of Utah) as well as by my
fellow BYU fans. So rather than acting like a jerk and embarrassing my employer
and my BYU fan friends, I decided to just root for my Cougs and let the Utah fan
owner of that car go his merry way and spread his H8TRED as his conscious so
dictates. I reminded myself it is just a game! This contest is not about
religious faith or life or death or anything quite that serious. Lets enjoy the
game for what it is. I hope both team play well and may the best performing team
win - GO COUGS!
Here's to two teams just sacking up and settling it on the field. Make the
other team see stars, not brag about who collected the most from people who
aren't even going to be at the stadium.
@ mindgames: "Obviously you have never had the pleasure of attending a BYU
game in the state of Wyoming."In an article on another site
today, the author referred to Utah as "the Wyoming of the PAC-12." I
laughed out loud, because that nailed it perfectly. I have a
colleague who is a Univ of Wyoming grad, and he is still vocal and bitter about
BYU choosing to leave the MWC (after Utah bolted--why don't they get the
blame they deserve for breaking up the band?). Combine bottom-dweller in their
conference with a large helping of inferiority complex & boorish fan and
player behavior and stir briskly.
From a big time BYU fan for decades and a BYU alum I plead with everybody on
this board to talk with a neighbor who is of the other team's fan based and
do so with respect. Become friends, get over the rivalry. Look past it.
It's a football game! We are all the same deep down. This isn't a way
to live. Please. To borrow from MLK - I have a dream that someday a man will not
be judged by the color of his team's mascot, but by his character. It is
sad that a rivalry between Universities can cause such hurt, division, and anger
between people that really should be good friends. I have many friends and
family that are red. To all those fans that can't get past it on both sides
I plead with you to stop the hatred.