The religious right makes itself seem even more insane posting articles like
this. It is painful to read. Not only that, but the logic implies that the
person writing isn't familiar with remedial principles of reasoning. Which
only furthers the opposition's point of why people should attend college...
Thank you for making my argument that religion is so archaic and paternalistic
that we must do everything we can to marginalise it further.
LDS women have the highest educational achievement rates in the US, surpassed
only by Jewish women.
I'm grateful for a wife with a college education. It makes her a better
partner, a better parent, and a more fulfilled person in general. Plus, I never
would have met her if she hadn't made the decision to go to college. Based
on our experience, we'll be encouraging our daughters to go to college as
I know my opinion on this is a bit whack-o, but I largely hold men (me being a
member of this group) responsible for generations of women who lived their lives
marginalized. If you look at the sometimes abusive and downright condescending
way women were treated in the past, no wonder the feminist movement erupted onto
the scene.It is entirely possible for people to have differing
roles, and yet each is held in respect. Successful working relationships happen
between peers, equals, contributing to each of their own capabilities. An
educated man should have as a spouse a women who is his intellectual equal. It
is the only way for them to grow together. As soon as there is any semblance of
dominion one over the other, then you open the doors to abusive behavior. Your spouse should be your peer. She should be your equal. By all
means women should be as educated, or more so, then their spouses. Women
should be in marriages because they choose to, not need to.
My mother did not attend college. My father died at age 39, leaving my 36 year
old mother with seven kids, ranging in age from two to sixteen. The next
fifteen years of her life was a constant grind of menial jobs and night school
and crushing, crushing poverty. The aftereffects of those days still resonate
through our family.Mom grew up in a time when "good Christian
girls" didn't pursue "selfish" goals like education. They
married straight out of high school, and started having babies. She was in her
Fifties when she earned her degree. Earning a degree as a young woman would
have given her skills and training to negotiate the temporal challenges posed by
my father's death. As a father, I have a responsibility not
only to encourage my daughter's educational pursuits, but to expect her to
get all the education she can. Anything less, and I'm failing her, and
failing in my parental stewardship.
The headline for this feature is offensive.
Oh my.... in what century was this written? Seriously? I certainly hope this
person has neither wife nor daughters.
“After looking at the issues we raise, we would challenge anyone to
convince us that college for girls is not a near occasion of sin,”I believe not getting an education is a DIRECT sin!
HutteriteOne person does not represent a group so vast and varied as
people of religious belief. That seems pretty obvious right? I mean, I hope that
your just trolling and don't really feel that you can use this person as an
example for what all religious people believe. Just as easily I
could take Bill Ayer's bombing of the pentagon and say "Thank you for
making my argument that democrats are violent kooks and should be
marginalized." Or I could take one stupid comment made by an atheist and say
"thank you for making my argument that atheists are all stupid and nothing
that comes out of their mouths can be considered seriously," but then my
arguments would be ridiculous right?You do understand that your
comment consists of one of the most basic logical fallacies right?Anyway, religion does an awful lot of good in the world. From charitable
hospitals, to food banks, and teaching people to love each other. And various
studies indicate that religious people give more to both religious and non
religious charities. Marginalizing religion would do a great deal of harm in the
I am embarrassed to see this article in the Deseret News. Why give any more
attention to such a negative, backwards argument?
I think the author makes a couple of points if you can separate them from the
conclusion he draws, which I have a hard time arriving at.College is
big business, and growing bigger. Many occupations really do not require four
years of college/university seat time. In order to grow and attract more
students, hence bigger budgets and more employees, colleges have supplanted
trade schools and apprenticeships as a training modality for the work force.
Hence we have costly training for entry level employment and the need for two
incomesI feel his concern for the life-style of some college
campuses, it can be very hedonistic, self centered and worldly. The lack of
adult supervision of college students is a problem, but since we lowered the age
of majority to 18 for political correctness there is no liability for colleges
as supervisors of young people.College education has been
dumbed-down to be able to include more ill-prepared students. Classic
literature, languages and the arts are not required, extensive reading is not
required to be supplemented with fluffy courses are substituted by equally
ill-educated staff, some of whom are hired for politically correct reasons.
President Hinckley told women that the sky is the limit. Ridiculous article.
Mature educated women don't date the wrong type of men.
The article, it seems, was written to generate comments. How difficult was it
for the DN author to write an article of an article and include responses to the
article? Not hard, I suspect. And since this newspaper's audience is
generally LDS, the author should have included the LDS perspective on women and
The author of this article needs to re-read his Bible, particularly, the second
half of this scripture:Proverbs 4:7: "Wisdom is the principal
thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding."
Wow, it is amazing at how poorly people read this article. She is very clear
that women should be educated. What most of you are doing is equating college
with education. The article states "Many wise people in years past obtained
great educations by seeking knowledge from books and good material. Today,
anyone can learn anything they want with the vast library system across the
country and with the easy access of the Internet. So the real reason girls go to
college is for a degree, not an education."She even explained
that if a woman marries a responsible man, and he dies early in their marriage,
she will be taken care of because he would have purchased enough life insurance
that she can live off of that for a very long time.
Apparently, the author believes that women should, indeed, be kept barefoot,
pregnant and in the kitchen. Oh yes... and wearing a burka. He seems to view
women as empty-headed ninnies, unable of taking responsibility for themselves
and their behavior; empty vessels waiting to be led astray by bad men and bad
ideas. Oddly enough, in my sixty-five years on this planet, I've yet to
meet more than a small handful of women (and men, for that matter) who meet this
If you get a degree but not necessarily an education at college, couldn't
the same be said for men?
@RedShirtMITI don't know what your last job interview was like,
but the last job I applied for and was interviewed for didn't ask which
great book I had read, which websites I looked at, or what library I frequented.
They asked me what College I went to and what my degree was. And
while life insurance is important, aren't marketable skills important as
well? It took my wife a year of working as a receptionist at a
doctor's office after high school to get her into college, where she earned
her Bachelor's Degree and Master's Degree in Elementary Education
where she has a great job doing what she loves to do. It took my
daughter six months of working at the Training Table to push her into
post-high-school educational pursuits. If your life plan is to
"make sure you marry a guy with good life insurance" then you are not
properly preparing your daughters for adult life.
RedShirt MIT makes a couple of troubling statements. First, you're right:
the author differentiates between "college" and "education",
citing the rich pageant that is the Internet as all the education anyone
needs.Who shepherds the student through the Internet? Who provides
the direction, training, and critical evaluation necessary to separate real
learning from, say, conspiracy theories and Photoshopped images of sharks
attacking helicopters? Where is the peer review that drives progress in
disciplines like science, technology and the arts? (Try doing a writing workshop
online. It's a joke.) Most people don't have the discipline to be
self-taught.And what constitutes "responsible manhood"? In
my family's case, Dad was a construction worker, who worked six and
sometimes seven days a week to support a wife and nine kids. Mom stayed at
home, because they decided that was best for the children. He was a responsible
man. Dad had an insurance policy, a good one for a robust young man in perfect
health, but not nearly enough to cover the debts incurred during his cancer
treatments. Cancer is no respecter of persons, not even responsible ones.
RedShirtMIT"What most of you are doing is equating college with
education."Try getting a decent job with only an
"education".Education is important regardless of the source,
but if you're a single mother (for whatever reason) trying to support a
family, having a college degree can be the difference between being stuck in a
minimum wage job and living on food stamps, or having a well-payed job and being
To "Truth Machine" you should read the original article. If you did,
you would see that if women followed their advice, that there would be fewer
divorces and fewer instances where you have a single mother that needs to get a
job.You are making the same mistake that most others have made. Yes
you need a degree for many jobs, but outside of science related fields you
typically just need a degree. Your education and marketable job skills come
from the self education that you seek out.
A small correction, that will matter to no one but me. There were nine in our
family, but only seven children.It only seemed like nine. Actually,
it seemed like four hundred and seventy-three, but that's another story.
It would be great if we could just learn and not need a degree to get a good
job, but that just isn't how it's working is it? Now back to the real
world until sanity comes back to the crazy college system we have.In
the next 10 years or so we may see websites like Coursera bring online classes
with true credit that one can obtain a job with, but for now nobody is granting
interviews on ability alone. Seems crazy when said out loud doesn't it?
Why is a "degree without being educated" more valued for men than for
women? Givien that mind set, it would seem that college is wasted on men and
women. I'll always be grateful that my parents, who both worked their way
through college during the depression, encouraged and supported my sisters and I
to get an education. Just as they did our brothers. When my kids
were grown, I went back to school for a graduate degree. My education in social
work really began after I graduated and went to work. But the degree made it
possible for me to get a job.