Comments about ‘LDS Church joins 'growing chorus' of faiths asking followers to defend religious liberty’

Return to article »

Published: Sunday, Sept. 15 2013 4:45 p.m. MDT

Comments
  • Oldest first
  • Newest first
  • Most recommended
happy2bhere
clearfield, UT

Owen

Have you considered that knowing a persons bigotry may be better than not knowing it. If a business hated, say Mormons, I'd like to know that so that I can decide whether or not to spend money there. If I saw a business that said no Jews or Muslims allowed, I'd also not spend money there. I wouldn't worry about the right of some organization to have and display their biases. If they want to live like that, fine. That should be their right. If we don't want to support them, fine, that's our right too.

cpafred
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

@RedShirt
What a ridiculous response. How many gallons of gas has your ward bought this year.

I did not single out churches (I said 503(c) should be revised). Please read more carefully before you respond.

Of course businesses should not be allowed to avoid paying a fair tax, but that is not the topic here.

@Happy
Picture your little daughter or granddaughter coming to you in tears claiming that the corner store sold all her little friends ice cream cones, but wouldn't sell her one because she's a Mormon. How would you feel about that? I guess in your mind Rosa Parks should've stayed at the back of the bus and not complained (but rather reveled in the knowledge each day that the bus company is operated by bigots)?

RanchHand
Huntsville, UT

@happy2bhere;

What do you do when no stores will sell you their product? Do you go to the next town? Or the next? Or the next after that?

Your argument is exactly the same one used by whites in the South: Blacks should have a separate fountain, the water's from the same source, after all. They should eat at separate establishments, because well, whites are superior, after all, and the Bible says that God cursed them, so our religious values tell us that we can't share lunch counters with them. If they're not happy to go find another lunch counter than mine, well, they'll just have to suck it up, right?

That sir, is bigotry. It is the same bigotry whether you're talking about blacks, jews, muslims, mormons, gays or what-have you. Business should absolutely not be able to discriminate in that manner. Their business is to provide a product or service, it is not to judge their customer's worthiness or morality.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "cpafred" I would contend that my ward has purchased more gasoline than the local Wendy's. I know for a fact that they paid for the gas for the scouts to go to camp, along with the YM, and other YM groups going to high advendure camp this past summer. Then there are some of the weekday activities that have required the adult leadership to purchase gas, which is then reimbursed.

There are many businesses that do not pay for roads because the business itself does not use them. For example, if I own a Wendy's franchise, I benefit greatly from the roads, but I do little to nothing to directly pay for them. I would have several food service vendors (not owned by Wendy's) make deliveries each week. My total fuel bill is nothing.

As for paying a "fair" tax, how do you define that? How do you quantify "fair"? If you say they must pay something, how much, $1, $100,000, what is "fair"?

happy2bhere
clearfield, UT

Happy here, the point I guess you all kind of miss (my fault) is that you can't legislate the mind of a person. If they want to be bigots then that is their right. Agree? And if they want to display that bigotry, that is their right. Agree? I'd much rather know that a resturant hated me because of something so that I would not go in to it. Otherwise who knows what could be put in my food. Getting rid of bigotry with legislation is like trying to get rid of rats with legislation. Never happen. It is a part of the human condition and always will be. I for one would rather see the white hoods and burning crosses than live with deception. Better to know your who your enemy is. In my opinion anyway.

Schwa
South Jordan, UT

When you say religious liberty, do you really mean the legal authority to discriminate against someone in a public setting? Or do you mean the ability to practice as you desire in a private setting?

county mom
Monroe, UT

My right to religious freedom does not infringe upon your right.
Except last year at Christmas time I had a person stand in front of my home with a sign with vulgar language on it protesting my nativity. She was on my property!
This "neighbor" is most unhospitable even rude when I drive past her home on Sundays to go to church, she waves with one finger.
Believe it or not, I have a right to religious freedom!!!

RFLASH
Salt Lake City, UT

What I find offensive and what truly disappoints me in this LDS fight for religious freedom is knowing that Gay people are not included in their plans! I have always said that it is a religious issue. Just because we are gay does not mean that we don't have religion also! The LDS people should not be able to use their faith to trample on my religious freedom and my right to live my life the way I feel God intended it to be!There are many who don't believe in Temple Marriage, but they don't get to stop you from performing them! The same rights apply to all. If a gay person decides not to help a Mormon in their business transaction, guess what, that Mormon can stand up against that discrimination. As a matter of fact, Mormons stand up all of the time for their right! So, what is wrong with a gay person standing up for his or her rights? What is wrong with asking to be treated like a human being? Why? Why do you people never acknowledge anything we have to say about ourselves?

A Scientist
Provo, UT

county mom,

That might have been me "waving" at you.

But it is an expression of a deeply held religious belief of mine, so nobody can infringe on my religious freedom!

Right?

tgurd
Gonzales, LA

Religious freedom is respect for anothers belief in GOD as he or she understand it. Yes wars are fought over religion and have been since Adam and Eve lands given people persecuted, many murdered in the name of religion. Holy wars, the dark ages, inquisition all of these different times in history showed the intolerance to religious beliefs, We as LDS people believe in defending and protecting the rights of all denominations, Now I am saying all of course their are bigots in all religions and those that say one thing and do another, however for the most part the LDS people I know are very much for religious freedom and would back such. One gets so tired of the spin masters and their lies and stories, go back and read history instead of talking about what the spin masters are putting out, learn to allow all to worship how they wish and you worship the way you feel is right for you.

RanchHand
Huntsville, UT

@happy2bhere;

We get your point but you're not getting ours. We don't necessarily want to have a bigot cater our functions, but the point is that it shouldn't even be an issue. We shouldn't have to go from place to place to place to find a provider when they're everywhere we turn. If they can't serve everyone, they shouldn't be in business.

@county mom;

Your neighbor sounds like a real gem of extremely low quality; however, they're not violating your religious freedom as you're still able to attend the church of your choice, right? We also have religious freedom; and that means if our religion allows same-sex marriage, we should be able to practice same-sex marriage, right?

elarue
NEW YORK, NY

Okay, this is exactly what I was afraid of - that this whole "religious freedom" was not about actual religious freedom, but about right wingers strategizing to make themselves look like they're the victims of religious oppression so that they can commit religious oppression against others. Seriously? Health care reform? The contraception mandate? Religious liberty is about letting individuals follow their own conscience, not about letting your employer's conscience overrule your own. This is why liberalism is the true defense of religious liberty, and conservativism is the enemy of it.

The Scientist
Provo, UT

elarue

Amen!

Those crying out in defense of religious freedom are guilty of mistakenly substituting "freedom" for "hegemony".

RFLASH
Salt Lake City, UT

I want to give a thoughtful comment. Religous freedom should belong to all peopla including gay people. a lot of people expext to have certain rights, while they deny others the same. The funny thing is that they are denying people their rights based on their religous beliefs and when somebody says something, they scream that their religoue freedom is being taken away. Religous freedom most certainly should not give someone the right to discriminate against me!In Utah, a good way to decide if something is right is to substitute Mormon for the word gay. If it isn't right to do it to a Mormon, don't come out and say that it is ok to do it to a gay person! There was a time when Christian Americans somehow felt that owning another human being was morally right! you know they were going to church and somehow incorporating slavery into an accepted practice within their faith! Discrimination is wrong and has nothing to do with God

ulvegaard
Medical Lake, Washington

Several here seem to want to claim that this is all about religion trying to force it's beliefs on others. Some go so far as to claim that religion is the basis for wars and discontent.

Catholics aren't trying to force people of other faiths not to use birth control, they simply don't want to be forced to pay for it - either for themselves or others.

Muslims didn't fly planes into the Trade Center towers, people did who happened to be Muslims. And over time, granted, many violent individuals have tried to justify their actions with their religion - even Hitler at one time claimed his Lutheran faith prompted his actions against Jews.

What we are concerned about is a growing sense that government will not support the principals of religious freedom - and the evidence seems to be growing. We're not trying to claim a right to be fanatics, we simply wish to live by our conscience in a world determined to hand out privileges to random groups without responsible expectations.

Tators
Hyrum, UT

What a sad commentary on our society that the most liberal, anti-religion comments on this article are the most popular. Unbelievable!

Tators
Hyrum, UT

While visiting California a few years ago, I had gay people throwing eggs and spitting on my car windows while trying to drive into a church parking lot... not knowing what my personal stand was on proposition 8, but just because of my religion in general. Ever since then, it's been difficult for me to feel that gays just want to be treated equally. Try living the golden rule before becoming too preachy about rights. Good is as good does.

RanchHand
Huntsville, UT

@ulvegaard;

Living your conscience doesn't mean you discriminate and refuse service to those who you disagree with. It means you don't do the thing you don't believe in (i.e., you don't marry someone of the same sex). Photographing a same-sex wedding, providing the flowers for it or the cake does not violate your conscience. The only violation would be if you were to actually do the thing you believe is wrong yourself. Do Mormons serve alcohol when working in a restaurant that serves alcohol? Yes, they serve it but they don't drink it. This is exactly the same scenario.

@Tators;

Did you stop to think that the reason the comments you disagree with are the most popular because, perhaps it's because they support equality and it's the right thing to do? And, how did you know those throwing eggs at you were gay? We're they wearing signs? Anyway, which is worse, having a few eggs throw at you or having your civil rights voted away?

Darmando
Parker, CO

Some of the so called attacks on religion come as a response to zealots, who mistake license to denigrate, abuse, and marginalize others as religious freedom. From an earlier Deseret article I quote: “Religious freedom is as much a duty as it is a right. Religious freedom and civility depend upon each other and form a mutual obligation founded on the inherent dignity of each person..." Many zealots are abusive and coercive. They would rather accomplish by force of law what they can’t by persuasion and good example. They bring about reactions [sometimes from governments, obliged to protect all citizens] that are then deemed attacks on religion.

to comment

DeseretNews.com encourages a civil dialogue among its readers. We welcome your thoughtful comments.
About comments