Can someone be a member of the LGBT community and still be considered in full
fellowship in the LDS Church? I really do not know the answer to this 100%. When
you identify as being gay does this mean you actually are a practicing
homosexual, or just that you experience same gender attraction? This is
something that has never been entirely clear to me, how someone that is a
homosexual can be seen as being in good standing in the LDS Church. I support
strongly people who experience same gender attraction; however I am not sure how
one can consider themselves in good standing in the LDS Church, yet still
advocate homosexuality. Is Steve Young advocating homosexuality or just
supporting people who struggle with same gender attraction?
I think that understanding within the LDS Church about same sex attraction has
improved. It still could be better of course, but it has improved, due in large
part to things like the new website. I think that reconciliation can be
difficult, and it is not always cut and dry like we would want to make it
appear. I struggled for a long time with certain social aspects of the LDS
Church that I just could not seem to reconcile in my mind. I just need to remind
myself often that God loves the sinner. We go from that point. There is so much
more that we don't know than that we do know. For me, I have found it
highly clarifying to advocate aspects of timing as it relates to change, as well
as acceptance of the honest in heart who want to do what is right and are
The Young's are true Latter Day Saints. Sometimes we all forget that God
loves all of his children. By bridging the gap, the Young's are living the
commandment that We should Judge not but should let the Lord Judge. I applaud
the Young's for their efforts and example. As an active Latter Day Saint I
hope I can be as loving and tolerant as they are.God bless you both.
An infallible method of conciliating a tiger is to allow oneself to be
So, did they read the Proclamation to the World at this event?
Steve is the latest guy to cave in to the pressure.....
One of the statements that bothers those of us trying hard to love, understand,
and accept the LGBT community is the statement "God made me that way."
Maybe it's factual, maybe not. We just don't have all the answers yet,
from either a religious or a scientific viewpoint. Without more firm ground to
stand upon, it's a perplexing stimulus-response mechanism affecting all
sides of the issue. Making this statement so strongly is bound to produce
frustration, confusion, and other negative responses, all of which perpetuate
misunderstandings, resentment, and intolerance. We need to be more wise, less
judgmental,less rationalizing, less conclusive until more facts and/or the
revealed word of God comes forth.
"Finch has one son and two grandchildren who identify as being gay."I long for the day when we won't feel the need to use such
phrasing. This carefully chosen wording makes it sound like being gay is a
temporary condition. It's not. The way it's written makes it feel like
there is a little extra that should be added "Finch has one son a two
grandchildren who identify as being gay, but they are fooling
themselves."I applaud the Youngs fpr reaching out to the LGBTQ
community. It's another much needed step to make them feel more a part of
our communities. Let's hope the Deseret News board, staff, and owners can
soon follow their lead and try to truly understand and become advocates for
these too-often marginalized brothers and sisters.
GL W8, did you choose to be heterosexual? Would you say YOU were born that way?
We'll never know because we can't trust people's word on that
issue can we?
One time I talked with someone who was in his mid 20's who had cystic
fibrosis. For some reason, his lungs can't purge the mucus. Every three
months they take you to the hospital and you have to breathen in a special
inhaler while the nursing staff whack you a lot on the back.He was
serving in a bishopric in his home ward. He was lucky that he had lived to
adulthood. Usually people with his sickness die before they are 20. He had
chosen not to marry because he did not want to leave a widow.I guess
if someone had same gender attraction, they may decide to live celibate. There
are a lot of noble reasons people will choose not to marry. This could be one
In the past I have had more than one Gay college student come to my office
battling thoughts of suicide. I believe those Mormons like Steve Young who build
bridges to the LGBT community rather than attack them are saving lives. I can
already see the change.
The Gay group/community/interested parties/club/orientation...or whatever, used
to have a severe problem with being totally ostracized, and they would argue it
still does. BUT, the worm has turned and now they are doing things to their
"enemies" exactly as they've accused their enemies doing to them.
Trying to find a rational middle ground seems impossible right now. The LGBT
groups can only see that "respect" means "think as we think."
They castigate any person who doesn't view Gay with joy. To say you are
fine having same rights isn't enough -- you've got to embrase their
mental position. If you don't they'll boycott your business like the
ones in the Northwest, cry foul and boycott your film if you, OSCard disagree
with them, and make up nonsensical words like "homophobe" that
they'll call you if you do not toe their party line. We've
got to get to the point where "straight" can believe Gay actions are
immoral but so long as they treats gays kindly, with love, allowing their
contracts to be equal to anyones, then it should matter either. Middle grounds
are tough to find.
@FrankSegesman - do you think it's "caving to pressure" for an LDS
person/group to support those with alcohol or drug addiction, or to support one
who's compelled to gamble, or who's obsessed with pornography? Is it
inappropriate to help any group who struggles with desires that would lead to
sin if acted upon?I thought it was very unclear through the article
if the Youngs condoned and supported the choices of those who act upon their
homosexual desires. To the Youngs and others with Affirmation, does "God
loving everyone as they are" mean God is accepting of homosexual conduct, or
does it mean God hopes they'll choose the path of obedience to his
commands, yet loves them even if they don't, as He does all sinners? I
didn't think that was very clear through the article, and perhaps
intentionally so. There's a thin line to walk when building
bridges is the goal, and introducing the line of sin demarcation suggests
judgment that is inevitably counterproductive to that goal. It seems the Youngs
are "loving the sinner but hating the sin," with an emphasis on the love
and just no mention of the hate.
LDS readers: I'm faithful, active, and have a strong testimony of the
restoration and it's accoutrements, I read from the Book of Mormon daily
and love it. I've faithfully worked on this issue for over 30 years.
It's taken me that long to be ok with the plan God has for me. I love the
Lord with all my heart and I don't care what He wants me to do, I'll
do it. As I grow older and draw nearer to the Lord, He whispers peace to my
resistant soul regarding my sexual orientation. My feelings aren't lustful.
They aren't shameful. I have no desire to hide from the presence of the
Lord. Instead, I rejoice in His companionship as I seek an eternal
companion ... a male eternal companion. Are we willing to be guided by the Lord
in this? What if 1978 was only the beginning of more light and knowledge? What
will you tell your children when they ask how you felt before the revelation
came? "We didn't know" isn't an excuse. We can know. Are we
praying to be on the right side next time?
Re:TekakaromatgiWhat if there were laws prohibiting your friend with
cystic fibrosis from marrying? Or society condemned him because he chose
to marry?Re:Mr.PlateMrs. Young at least opposed Prop 8.
She contributed to those opposing Prop 8 and the Youngs also had a sign opposing
Prop 8.Steve Young, however, declined to make public whether he supported
or opposed Prop 8.Re:GLW8Have you ever talked to or
heard a gay LDS (or not LDS)person's story about coming to the realization
they are gay? If not, you have much to learn. Affirmation has a website, maybe
start there. If you believe God creates all types of people, then
why would it be different for LGBT? Perhaps we ought to leave the judging
up to Him, and simply treat our neighbors as ourselves.
My issue is with the language. I don't know if science is anywhere near
understanding homosexuality. Sexual behavior and fetishes are propensities borne
out by our behavior. I think it should be bridging the gap of LGBT tendencies.
If you are LGBT that means you are Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, or transgender and
open and proud of it. I don't believe in being transgender at all unless
you are born a hermaphrodite; I don't see where they facts are for your sex
being the "wrong" one. I also don't think being a heterosexual is
100 percent determined by genes, I think it is maybe 50 to 60 percent genetic
the rest is social biology and learning men and women have to mate to create
article-"Heavenly Father loves our gays exactly the way they are —
exactly the way he created them."That statement should have
been: Heavenly Father loves gay persons as he loves everyone else. He no more "created" them that way than he created people who have any
other kind of physical attribute, trait, or characteristic of any kind or
nature.Heavenly Father instituted His plan--and part of that is we
are all born into a mortal world with an innumerable variety of attributes,
traits, or characteristics--and we are born with them for an innumerable number
of reasons....To say God created people to be Gay (or any other
thing) gives the wrong idea to impressionable people.God planned for
us all to be born, and he loves us all. Period. He invites us all
to turn to him to better navigate any and all conditions of living in a mortal,
I would agree that I find the point of this article confusing. I am not sure
what the point of the conference was. I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area.
I was in high school when the question of gays and, to a lesser degree at that
time, lesbians were being debated. Our high school was the first one in the
country to have to allow a couple of the same gender to attend the Senior Prom.
I am for all people having equal opportunity, equal treatment, and equal
respect. The problem that I have is that it seems like the LGBT community has
always wanted more than equality. They want conversion of everyone to see it
their way. Just because I don't want the traditional definition of
marriage to be changed doesn't automatically mean that I disrespect others
who would like it to be defined differently. It just means that I believe that
marriage is about something more than a legally sanctioned sexual union with the
right to benefits. Surely we are creative enough to come up with an appropriate
solution, assuming people on both sides are willing to bend.
I agree we have, as a society and a Church, come a long way in how we look at
those who profess LGBT identity. I have puzzled and pondered much about this
situation.If God commanded Adam and Eve to multiply, and it is His
same commandment to all of us, it would be a bit puzxling to have Him then cause
some to be unable to do so,and among what appears to be in ever widening
numbers.If the Proclamation to the Family is believed to be
revelation of God, then at face value, acting on those LGBT feelings would not
produce offspring. I don't see the commandment to avoid partaking of the
tree of knowledge -- which had to be done for humanity to spring forth-- a
To complete my earlier comment:I have no idea why there is same sex
attraction. I do know that we are taught by those who have authority that it is
not wrong to have those feelings, but only to act upon them. Is it fair to have
those feelings then be commanded not to act upon them? Is it fair for the man to
have cystic fibrosis then not act upon his heterosexual feelings to avoid
leaving a widow and perhaps passing the gene onto his children? It appears to
be an individual choice in his matter.My only real concern with the
LGBT dialogue is that those who don't believe that way are called bigots.
In this day of "politically correct" speech, I fear that dialogue is
what will bring persecution of Church members in the last days.
I have many gay friends, including one who was active at church, never having
acted on his feelings. I know a gay couple with a small family who have been
welcomed into their Utah Ward with open arms. They don't hold callings but
they are welcome at church. Their children are very well adjusted and Very
loved. I chose to be as Christlike as I can be which means loving my neighbor,
whom ever they are. I choose not to judge but rather become a friend. It makes
me feel great to know that my choices have allowed me many friends whom I might
otherwise have missed out on. Having said all that, I love the people but
don't necessarily agree with their "lifestyle", The Lord loves all
His children so who am I to turn away from them?
@Vladhagan"When you identify as being gay does this mean you actually
are a practicing homosexual, or just that you experience same gender
attraction?"The latter, just like how people are heterosexual
based on who they are attracted to.
@WindsorSo are you saying that God did not create the 'heavens
and the earth', but rather 'instituted' a plan? God's most
significant creation is a plan. Then who in your estimation created the
'heavens and the earth' (and all the natural systems that implies -
including sexual orientation), the Bible not withstanding?
Of course God loves all.But it doesn't mean he excepts the
sin.Finding something attractive, doesn't make it right.
Straight people do the same thing with out of wed-lock relationships.Being a diabetic, I find alot of foods attractive, but know it's going to
hurt me. Common sense, and self control is the key.
Steve is one of the few who would welcome his gay brother in law into the temple
to be married to his gay lover. he may have been the MVP of the nfl, but his
wife wears the pants in his household.....go Steve.
@SuziQYou wrote: " The problem that I have is that it seems like the
LGBT community has always wanted more than equality. They want conversion of
everyone to see it their way"Sorry but you are wrong.As a
gay man I accept and respect your disagreement with SSM. What we reject is the
arrogance and bigotry of denying our right to have the same rights as anybody
else.Personally I disagree with hunting. I think hunting is inhuman
unless done for survival, I cannot understand how Hunting can be consider a
sport. It is even harder for me to understand how anyone can enjoy and feel
pride in killing an innocent animal. Yet, I will never attempt to legalize my
opposition to hunting because of my feelings. I just express my opposition and I
don't hunt.You have the right to disagree with SSM and I will
defend your right not to have one.
One does not need to accept drunkenness to show love to the drunkard.One
does not need to accept theft to show love to the thief.One does not need
to accept murder to show love to the murderer.One does not need to accept
homosexuality to show love to the homosexual.Those who suggest that
showing any love toward an individual with same-sex attraction is an endorsement
of the practice of homosexuality are wrong.Those who suggest that
people cannot really show love to individuals with same-sex attraction until
they support/reward/celebrate homosexual behaviors are wrong.
As a Mormon, I have always been taught that the greatest commandment is to love
God and demonstrate that by loving and serving my fellow man. My copy of the
standard works does not include a footnote that exludes gays, blacks,
immigrants, welfare moms, Utes or any other group from that commandment.What I take from the Youngs is that they are living up to that
commandment. My understanding is that in the LDS Church, judgement is reserved
for those duly called by the the proper church authority. I gladly leave it to
those whose responsibility it is to do so. I wish more people would do the same.
I agree that same sex attraction is too often compared to maladies (e.g.
alcoholism, diseases).The fact is ANYTHING that we choose to put in
front of God can keep us from reaching the full potential he has for us if we
seek and follow His will. That includes many things (e.g. wealth, beauty,
intelligence) that are prized as attributes.How can I make sure I
continue to seek God's will and not become blinded by what my wealth,
beauty, intelligence, or same-sex attraction bring into my life seems as valid a
question, and less pejorative, than those typically used.I take God
at His word when he said, if ANY of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God...and
believe He answers each faithful prayer if we are willing to act upon that
response, regardless of whether or not the substance of that answer is what we
had expected, or hoped for.I also believe that regardless of our
individual circumstances we are given the opportunity to take those circumstance
and create a life through which, "the glory of God may be made
I don't think anyone who truly lives the doctrines and principles of the
Gospel of Jesus Christ as the LDS church teaches, namely, Charity, the pure Love
of Christ, has any desire to shun anyone no matter what they've done. We
are commanded to love all men without prejudice. We are to forgive everyone
without prejudice. That is the gospel of Christ.One issue I have is
with the act of homosexuality. It is currently against the law of Chastity,
arguably one of the most important laws we have been commanded to live by. This
law is set in stone and will never change. God is the same yesterday, today, and
forever and there has never been an instance where He has ever allowed same sex
unions to be justified in the tenants of His gospel.We have to be
careful. On one hand we have been commanded to love and forgive everyone no
matter who they are. On the other hand we have also been commanded to keep His
commandments. I believe that Steve and his wife are loving and reaching out to
their fellow brothers and sisters as best they know how. This is charity...
@RobRavenI appreciate your sincerity and your faith, and I also appreciate
your not being angry and bitter against the church. I cannot state that enough.
That is so great, I really really mean it. But, I also think that there is
something that is not quite totally understood. And that is that the Lord's
truths and doctrines are taught by his prophets and apostles. Doctrinal(emphasis
on doctrinal, not personal) revelation for the whole church only comes, and only
in this way, through the Lord's prophets, seers, and revelators. And that
revelation is also found in the Family: A Proclamation to the World.
@RobRavenAnd from the Church's newsroom website:"...the Church
remains irrevocably committed to strengthening traditional marriage between a
man and a woman, which for thousands of years has proven to be the best
environment for nurturing children." Remember that this is an official
statement from the Church, meaning that it was written by the First Presidency
and The Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, our living prophets,seers, and
revelators. If such a revelation as you suggest might occur, it would only come
through divine communication to them, not through pressure from inside or
outside the church. But it won't because it is completely contrary to the
Lord's truths that He has given us. Exaltation requires eternal marriage,
and creation is impossible with same-sex marriage. I'll probably get a
whole lot of flak for what I've written, but I felt that I should share
this. But the church is still true, and President Monson is still a prophet, and
God still speaks to His children today.
A same-sex relationship runs contrary to the Plan of Salvation. "Political
Correctness", whether from the Church or society at large, won't alter
Re:FriendToAllIt's nice to hear there's a ward in the
Church where a gay family feels comfortable enough to attend and where the
members aren't putting judgement before love. I believe that is the model
Jesus tried to impart when He said to "love thy neighbor." There needs
to be space in our church where all are welcome. Afterall, we are all on our
own personal journeys through life.
Ether 12:27 "And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I
give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for
all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before
me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto
them." Some are tempted by substances, some by greed, some by inappropriate
heterosexual behavior, some by inappropriate homosexual behavior, and so forth.
The problem is that no other "weakness" presents quite the Hobson's
choice of same-sex attraction. Gays who choose to marry and adopt or use some
alternative method of fertilization are doing their best to legitimize what is
natural for them. The Proclamation on the Family does seem to marginalize this
kind of lifestyle, as do the scriptures. I can see the civil rights argument,
but also the religious freedom argument. There doesn't seem to be a way to
compromise that will make everyone happy. Meanwhile, everyone needs to be
compassionate and Christlike, and it seems that the Youngs are setting an
Rob Raven: Please know that you have many straight allies within the Church.
We are not as vocal in church -- for obvious reasons -- but we are hoping and
praying for further light on this very sensitive topic. I believe the Church
will eventually fully accept you, my gay friends, and my wonderful son as equal
with all the rights and privileges that straight members enjoy. I'm
afraid, though, that it will take a long time.Those African
Americans seeking civil rights had to walk a long, lonely, frightening trail
before they were able to have the same rights and privileges as their white
American brothers and sisters. Prejudice runs deep, but eventually it dies.
Best wishes to you and your loved ones, Rob!
Policy or practice is not the same thing as doctrine. Blacks and the priesthood
was related to policy and practice. Marriage between a man and a woman is
doctrine. Those believing that this doctrine will change are mistaken.
This has been a terrific comment dialog. No matter what people believe in, they
should be respected. I do not advocate the Gay lifestyle. I also don't
believe that a person should not drink to excess. I don't believe in
murder pre-martial sex or in adultery. I also don't believe that because I
don't side with the Gay lifestyle that I should be browbeat by those who
do. And I certainly shouldn't browbeat those who live the gay lifestyle. I
haven't walked in their shoes.As I said before God loves all
and we should all try to understand each other. I believe what I believe, that
God lives and answers our prayers. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is clear on
certain things, We all should try to live Christ like lives. Judge not lest you
be Judged. Get along with your fellowman and invite all to do the best they
possibly can. God will sort it all out. And I think we will all be surprised
who we will meet in Heaven.
If you differentiate between doctrine and policy, it's important to note
that doctrines are also subject to modification. This is a living church. Church
history is replete with examples of doctrines that become modified from time to
time as more light and knowledge become available. "...a new
flood of intelligence and light on this particular subject erases all the
darkness and all the views and all the thoughts of the past. They don't
matter any more...It doesn't make a particle of difference what anybody
ever said ... It is a new day and a new arrangement, and the Lord has now given
the revelation that sheds light out into the world on this subject. As to any
slivers of light or any particles of darkness of the past, we forget about
them." - Bruce R McConkie, (1978)The BoM is written for our day,
and yet says nothing on the subject, why not? What if the bible is
misunderstood? I recommend a google search of Matthew vines, and a visit to his
YouTube and Facebook pages. We should all pray for more patience, love, and
A good barometer for this issue is to look at the fruits of the doctrine: Broken
families. Homeless youth. Suicides. Institutionalized bigotry. Etc. These are
red flags that something is wrong. Sins are accompanied by guilt and can be
repented of and overcome. I am witness to the miraculous healing power of God,
and yet he won't heal me of this. Why not? One the contrary,
the Lord doesn't condemn me and I am guilt free. I have His spirit with me.
He's not asking me to repent of this. If you know the stories, gay men are
not cured, they simply repress their natural attractions and marry women anyway.
While that may work for some, it cannot work for all. How would you feel about
your daughter/sister marrying a homosexual man?And what about
Genesis 2:18? It's not good for man to be alone. For many reasons...
Chastity has been mentioned. I want to keep the law of chastity. I have no
desire to sleep around... at all... none. What if it's time to prepare
places of safety for worthy LDS LGBT saints to find love without leaving the
safety of the Gospel?
@ScoundralWhat appears to me to be the issue is that more and more
those who feel same gender attraction are demanding that we consider it as
normal as opposite gender attraction. It doesn't take a genius to see where
this is headed.Sometime in the not too distant future, there will be
a federal lawsuit filed against the LDS Church demanding it open its temples to
all who want to be married there, regardless of gender attraction and actions.
This in the name of "equality." There will be demonstrations, perhaps
more incidents of arson of Church buildings.The only issue I have
with LGBT is what appears to me to be acceptance by jamming it down
society's throat. Bless they Youngs' hearts. They are doing what they
believe is right. But it may bear fruit that in the end will not be good for all
Of course we know that people are born gay. It's long past time for you all
to realize that. And, being gay is not a sin we have to forgive in others! Gay
people are just like everyone else--born into this life to figure out how to
navigate challenges and find happiness, hopefully with God's help and
approval.It is also important to realize that gay people are not
monolithic in what they desire. We have gay Mormons in heterosexual marriages
with children who are happy. We have gay Mormons who do not believe in gay
marriage. We have gay Mormons who are single and choose to live as worthy LDS
members. We also have gay Mormons who advocate and want gay marriage--including
temple marriage. I don't have the answers, I just think
it's time to see things the way they really are with our homosexual
brothers and sisters.
There were no protests, no marchers, no "signs", no yelling at
participants outside of this event. No "Mormons", or LDS telling them
they have no right to be having this meeting. Wow!! This could/should be a
lesson to the LGBT and all communities of people who are trying to be
"accepted" ... we really can have a difference of opinion and do it
peacefully. We really can live together without accepting the lifestyles
(religious or otherwise) of anyone else and maintain our own. We need to
figure out what to do about a generation of young people who have been raised
believing that "everyone has the right to think and be and choose what they
want to be ... except YOU if you if you don't agree with ME ... then you
have no right to that opinion."
To RobRavenHow do you see homosexual marriage fitting into the Plan
of Salvation? God created your physical body to be a man. He made you that way.
Human physical bodies weren't created to accommodate homosexual relations.
Isn't it like just giving up/giving in to allow oneself to submit to
lusts. I am married. Do I frequently feel powerful attractions to others outside
my marriage? Yes! It's human nature to be attracted. Do we just allow
ourselves to fall into the mess of sin because "we were born that way"?
I was born with an incredible sweet tooth. Know what I would look like if I just
threw up my hands and said , God made me this way so it's OK to indulge?
Resisting attractions, impulses and appetites is a life-long project. Don't
give up so soon on resisting what isn't ultimately good for you. I think the Youngs are doing something charitable and good for society and for
the church. We still need to recognize that we are all imperfect and need to
strive for righteousness.
The LDS Church is one of the few religious bastions where political correctness
has not worked, where leaders did not have to try to explain why they believe in
the Bible but give priesthood to women and allows gays to marry. I
am libertarian regarding what people choose to do with one another, right up
until they call me a bigot for not believing in what they believe. If the prophet announces that Gay marriage will be supported by the Church
I'll support it to. But this reverse change, from the pews of faraway
church buildings that start to guilt life-long members into changing their
beliefs will only make the membership more stoic and more resolved.
God loves all of his children yes, but he does not make mistakes and put a
female spirit on a male body or viceversa. Have the Young read what President
Kimball said in the miracle of forgivenss about what he calls "the crime
To my fellow LDS, we are all sinners and beggars before God. Jesus commanded
that we love one another, not find reasons to justify hate and discrimination.
Steve Young is Brigham Young's most famous descendant, it is great that he
is leading on this issue,I am LDS, Temple recommend holder, multiple
callings in my ward, 100% home teaching record and supporter of equal rights.
Yes, I can be all those things.
To those that believe the Church will one day hold homosexual temple sealings I
say don't hold your breath. What are the main points of doctrine that
separate the LDS Church from others? The Book of Mormon and continuing
revelation to present day prophets are two. The restoration of the Priesthood
and keys are others. Oh, and the bit about eternal families, gender being an
eternal principle, as man is God once was, etc. This part of our doctrine cannot
change and the Church continue to exist. That would mean Joseph Smith was
mistaken in all of those revelations. It would mean the LDS Church is not
distinct from other Christian churches. So that being the case, why are you
urging the Church to allow such things rather than going to another Church?
Because in the end that is all it would be.
O'really-To add to your comment, gender was also part of
pre-mortality. If we are a man now, we were a man in pre-mortality, and will
continue being a man in post-mortality. Same goes for women. The proclamation to
the world about the family mentioned the following: "Gender is an essential
characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and
I'm not sure here, but I believe chastity is between one man and one woman
married to each other. All other forms of intimacy are considered serious
sin.That said, I couldn't quote chapter and verse.So, that
leaves the matter open for discussion.That's what it has come to and
that's what the GBLTs will push to the very limit.Give them an
Steve and Barbara Young are examples of those who like other politicians find a
way to be politically correct. They realize as prominent celebrities that they
would avoid the targeting and abuse dished out to those faithful LDS families
who supported Prop 8. They could also remain in good graces with Hollywood and
the California liberal elite. My kudo's go to those in the trenches who
were targeted, vilified and even lost their jobs for defending marriage and
being compassionate to gays and lesbians in supporting Prop 8.
I just feel more confusion when I read about this topic. I read about many
members who think they know, but then there are those that quote older prophets
and such, and wonder. The statements from the brethren focus on behavior but
they don't really give us a good idea how to cope with the day to day
mental war. Christ said that those that looked upon a woman to lust
after her already committed adultery in their hearts. So are thoughts that are
homosexual not sins, but thoughts that are heterosexual sins? I
often struggle to know why at such a young age, I was predisposed to love
something so contrary to God's ideal plan. I chock it up to being a fallen
man.I don't trust the material coming from secular sources at
all. Their casual attitudes about every type of behavior, I found to be entirely
unacceptable for a spiritual life. But I feel like there are these gaping holes
in my own understanding and how I am to live with myself. So who do
I trust, when I can hardly trust my own mind and everyone claims they know what
That said, we want those with same sex attraction to come to Church and partake
of the doctrine. I have homosexual friends. I'm just saying changing the
doctrine of the Church in this case will not happen or the Church ceases to
exist. This is not the same as African Americans and the Priesthood because it
goes to the very core of the Church's doctrine whereas 1978 did not.
Okay, here is my take on all of this:I grew up in DC, a town that
has a large gay community. I spent six months in the gay bars and in
the gay community in preparation for a thesis I wrote about the whole
nature/nurture thing for a college class. Here is what I found.1.
There was a group who were gay because it was considered at the time wrong and
on the edge of society and these men and women got a thrill out of "doing
wrong." Some of them did it to hurt their parents, friends, etc. 2. There was a group who had difficulty with their lives. They were not
successful in marriage, business, family and suddenly "realized" they
were gay and jumped into the lifestyle as the fix to the problem. 3.
One group either didn't want to be gay but lived the life anyway or liked
being gay and was content with their choice. It was this group that seemed truly
"hardwired" to be gay.4. The last group had unusual home
life, overbearing or abusive moms, wives, etc. There was no one
answer to the "nature vs nature" question.
Lehi's dream and the spacious building; Did Lehi ever climb up there to
preach or make them feel better about themselves? Where is the line between
loving and accepting gays and doctrine? Everyone is a child of God. He will
judge, not me. The church has been very accepting of gays. Are we looking to be
accepted or helping others feel accepted? Can gay Mormons accept that I believe
in the proclamation on the family and that guides my beliefs. Most gay (Mormons)
in these settings seem to be looking not only to be accepted, but told what they
do is not considered sinful. Many have lobbied for the Supreme Court overturning
DOMA, California's prop 8 and participate in gay pride parades. We have
living prophets and if u want my respect and acceptance it goes both
ways.That's usually where the friction comes in. I sin too, but I'm
not openly opposing what the church has said and what we hold dear. Don't
ask me to relax my standards or Gods word so you feel better. I'm staying
out of that tall and spacious building. But come on down and we'll talk.
@baddog"Sometime in the not too distant future, there will be a
federal lawsuit filed against the LDS Church demanding it open its temples to
all who want to be married there, regardless of gender attraction and
actions."The only way possible that could happen would be for
someone who is gay and a member of the church to file the suit. If a group or
person from the outside where to file the suit, it would be tossed out by the
courts because they would not have standing. However, I do not think the
government would interfere with the religious beliefs of the church since
marriage between a man and a woman is part of the LDS religious doctrine and is
not a policy. The beliefs can be upheld by the scriptures. If it should turn
out however that the government does force the LDS Church to open the temples to
same sex marriages then the country has lost the first amendment and a second
civil war would break out.
Love the sinner, not the sin. Gays want more than just equal rights. It’s
a choice. I’m not a bigot just because I don’t share your point of
view. We love our gay brothers and sisters. Civil unions should be good enough.
That was me two years ago. My opinion was borrowed from those around
me….and then my son told me he is gay. The church’s current
position: It’s not a choice, that the population is 2.4% gay and 1.2%
lesbian, love all. So, a ward of 500 should have 18 LGBT’s and a YM/YW
organization of 80 youths should have about 3 LGBT’s.If we love and
accept them, where are they? The adults have been so persecuted that they have
thrown in the towel and the kids are hiding in abject fear that their peers and
parents will discover them."Good" LDS families are throwing their
LGBT kids out. They commit suicide at rates well beyond national averages.
Brothers and sisters, we are failing our LGBT brothers and sisters. Thank you
Steve and Barb Young.
To "Vladhagen" according to the church policy manuals, you can be a
member of a member of the LGBT and enjoy full fellowship and ordinances in the
church, except where somebody has had a sex change operation. A LGBT person
will be required to live by the same standards that any other member would have
to live by. You don't find that sort of equality out there in politics.
Those that have had sex change operations are now allowed into the temple, which
makes sense because of some gender specific portions of the temple ceremony.
The other part that may be sticky is that when getting a temple recommend you
are asked if you belong to or support groups that are anti-LDS.
RobRaven-There are some absolutes in the plan of salvation, and one
of those is that eternal marriage is between man and woman. Saying this is a
living church and that a new revelation can come to allow a man and a man to be
sealed for all eternity (married) in the temple is a false hope and a twisted
concept of what the living church means. The Brethren have made this crystal
clear and have emphasized the importance of opposite genders needed to be part
of marriage.Nephi gloried in plainness, and I believe it is
important to be plain regarding this subject. In short, a man and a man (or
woman and woman) are never going to be married in the temple together. The
scriptures teach to not ask for these which ye ought not, and eternal marriage
between the same gender is one of those things you shouldn't be asking
for.Just remember, when God created the world, it was Adam and Eve
and not Adam and Steve. A woman, Eve, was a help, meet (appropriate) for Adam.
God did not create Steve to be a help, meet for Adam. It is man and woman.
Why are people so concerned with what sexual orientation somebody else is? I
don't agree with homosexuals, I don't support it, but I am not against
it either. Why spend so much time fighting against them. to me it is like
anything else: if 2 consenting adults want to do it why should I be able to tell
them no. It doesn't harm me, or affect anybody but the 2 involved in the
relationship. It is like alcohol or smoking or gambling - it may be immoral, but
if somebody else wants to do it, then they can. That doesn't mean I have to
do it, it doesn't even mean I have to agree with it. It means they have a
right to do it, just as I have the right not to.
Tuffy ParkerI am sorry but you are flat out wrong. Blacks not
holding the priesthood was a DOCTRINE, not just a policy. "Negroes in this life are denied the Priesthood; under no circumstances
can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty. The gospel message
of salvation is not carried affirmatively to them... negroes are not equal with
other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned,
particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow there from, but
this inequality is not of man's origin. It is the Lord's doing, is
based on his eternal laws of justice, and grows out of the lack of Spiritual
valiance of those concerned in their first estate." (Mormon Doctrine, 1966,
pp. 527-528) Also: Mike Wallace: From 1830 to 1978, blacks
could not become priests in the Mormon church. Right? Gordon B.
Hinckley: That's correct. Mike Wallace: Why? Gordon
B. Hinckley: Because the leaders of the church at that time interpreted that
DOCTRINE that way.
continued....also:"The attitude of the Church with
reference to Negroes remains as it has always stood. It is not a matter of the
declaration of a policy but of direct commandment from the Lord, on which is
founded the doctrine of the Church from the days of its organization, to the
effect that Negroes may become members of the Church but that they are not
entitled to the priesthood at the present time." (The First Presidency on
the Negro Question, 17 Aug. 1949)This was a stetement from the first
presidency... you can't get much more doctrinal then that. Please don't try to justify and sugarcoat and mislead. It was clearly a
No matter how much love and acceptance we or the Church gives, it won't
change the fact that those who have same-sex relationships, who do not repent,
cannot enter into the New and Everlasting Covenant of marriage, nor receive
exaltation. Heavenly Father is eternal. His laws are eternal. Regardless of
our personal views, He cannot and will not give into "political
correctness". If He did, He would cease to be God.Whether or
not the tendency towards same-sex relationships is in-born or learned, it
doesn’t matter. The point is, it runs counter to the Plan of Salvation
and is abhorrent to the Lord. There is no challenge in life, but what the Lord
has given us the power to overcome it. That's not to say it will be easy -
but, through the atonement of Jesus Christ, all things are possible. All who have been through the temple know what the doctrine is. We must be
careful that in expressing our love and support that we aren’t subtly
saying that it’s OK to be right where they are; in affect, giving up
trying. If they truly desire exaltation - it's not OK!
@ 273 River miles...Can you tell us how we as a church are persecuting gays?
Some specific examples? I just don't see it. The only gay members I know
left the church on their own because they knew their lifestyle wouldn't (
and shouldn't) be condoned. They essentially couldn't show their face
at church. But they are loved and completely accepted by their families. All I
see these days is members loving and accepting anyone who walks in the door of
church no matter how they look or smell. If those gays decided to come to
church, they would not be kicked out unless they were doing PDA with their
partner or whatever. So are we supposed to not talk about the
doctrines of the church in front of homosexuals for fear of making them feel bad
and "persecuted"? I believe homosexuals will feel embarrassed or self
conscious during discussions like this. So Are we supposed to deny the realities
of the Proclamation, of eternal families so that we prevent homosexual suicide?
If so we better not talk about the Word of Wisdom around drinkers or obese, or
about marriage around singles.
I think we are in for some troubled times. Because our minds have become
grossly darkened, The Lord mentions a cleansing that will originate from a
surprising location and spread from there to the rest of the world. See
Young people do not see this issue the way most of the commenters do --
something like 75% of those under 30 see being Gay as natural, and suppression
of equality as wrong. Most young people and most non-mormons see the "stay
in the church but be celibate" concept as ranging from cruel and
discriminatory to just plain idiotic.I am so sick to death of the
vicious lie, "The Gays do not just want rights, they want to force us to
contradict our religious views and agree with them", in all its
variations.I am so sick of people who think they are mind-readers,
qualifying them to say that Gays made a choice to be Gay.LDS people
tend to have large families and produce plenty of Gay offspring. I suppose it is
progress to no longer cast them into the street or force them into therapy
camps, but it is far from the progress made out in the rest of America.God knows the answer -- we do not. The prophet and all mormons should be
searching for what God wants, not for what is easy for the church to handle.
Frank...during the Prop 8 battle in California Steve Young had a sign in front
of his house supporting LGBT marriage, so he is hardly the latest to cave. The
natural question is if the LDS church says acting on being gay...having sex...is
a sin then how can anyone supporting gay marriage be a faithful member? If you
are condoning it, that would naturally prevent you from holding a temple
recommend. If you encourage, support and profit from gay marriage Marriott
hotels do when they sell wedding celebration packages specifically themed for
gay marriages on a website they maintain strictly for their LGBT customers, how
does that enable them to be members in good standing or be GA's? Romney
opposed gay marriage while running for president, but now as a member of the
Marriott Board of Trustees he profits from it. Is the deciding point now NOT
one of doctrine, but of profit for members and the church? In California
members were encouraged even by a letter read on Sunday to hold the line against
gay marriage and to support its defeat. More than a few are grumbling they were
left with egg on their faces.
I'm an active LDS woman, who simply cannot believe the prejudice of a few
isolated scriptures in Leviticus and Deuteronomy. As LDS people, we know the
Bible hasn't been completely translated correctly, and there's not an
iota about homosexuality in the Book of Mormon. In my mind, biases against gays
are deep-rooted prejudices.Those who suggest they "know"
exactly what will happen in the hereafter are displaying an arrogance. No one
"knows". We can only have faith. Women are going to continue to have
periods, conceive, and deliver children in heaven? Really? With all the
biological anatomy that goes along with reproduction here on earth? Really?
Once again, can't wrap my head around that. I don't believe in a
literal conception and deliverance in the hereafter. If I use my brain -- and I
believe God wants me to -- I can definitely picture a gay family in heaven.
Tuffy ParkerPlease don't try to mislead people and sugarcoat
mormon doctrine. It most certainly was DOCTRINE. Consider the following:"The attitude of the Church with reference to Negroes remains as it
has always stood. It is not a matter of the declaration of a policy but of
direct commandment from the Lord, on which is founded the DOCTRINE of the Church
from the days of its organization, to the effect that Negroes may become members
of the Church but that they are not entitled to the priesthood at the present
time." (The First Presidency on the Negro Question, 17 Aug. 1949)This was a statement from the first presidency... you can't get much more
doctrinal then that. If you need more:"Negroes in this life are
denied the Priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of
authority from the Almighty. (mormon doctrine, p. 528) Elder McConkie was
clearly repeating what the first presidency had said.Mike Wallace:
From 1830 to 1978, blacks could not become priests in the Mormon church. Right?
Gordon B. Hinckley: That's correct. Mike Wallace:
Why? Gordon B. Hinckley: Because the leaders of the church at that
time interpreted that DOCTRINE that way.
Zoar63The lord never said that, Joseph Smith did. And given his
track record of giving revelations that never came true, I wouldn't be too
worried about it.
How short our memories are! The Church spent a large sum of money in support of
Proposition 8 in California. Now that the United States Supreme Court has
pointed out that Proposition 8 is unconstitutional, the Church is attempting to
dance around this issue. It is a dance many of us enjoy - kind of like after
the Civil War people in the South were dancing around slavery stating "It
was not about slavery, it was about State's Rights." Yeah, sure!
The LDS Church can still maintain it's own policies without solemnizing
civil same gender marriages. Yes, church and state can remain separate.
@ HunamYou wrote:"So who do I trust, when I can hardly trust my
own mind and everyone claims they know what God wants..."Nobody
else knows what God wants for YOU Only you can know, "the Glory of God is
intelligence" well, think about it: Are you a son of God? Does God make
mistakes? Does God love you? Why am I gay? I have no idea, yet, I am.What you are going through is what most of us have gone through. Praying,
fasting, working hard in the church, read and mediate in the scriptures, hoping
for that miracle that doesn't come.My brother, the peace will
be given to you when you accept yourself as a son of God. Accepting being gay or
heterosexual for that matter, is not rejection of God, on the contrary, is
actually accepting him, his creation and his designs for YOU.You are
not dirty, you are not an abomination, you are a child of our Heavenly Father.
Please read Psalm 8 it was written for you.
I am LDS, educated, temple recommend holder and fully understand why there is a
separation of Church and State in the Constitution. It was written to prevent
and discourage the raising of one religion over another as the King of England
did when he started his own church and became the head of it. Separation of Church and State PROTECTS the LDS Church. It is what STOPS
other religions from legislating the LDS CHurch as a cult. It protects the LDS
CHurch from Southern states from enacting laws against being LDS or practicing
our faith. Separation of Church and State is what keeps self labeled "Real
Christians" from passing laws that say LDS Temple ordinances can be kept
sacred and private and not open.Separation of Church and State
protects people from having to live under Sharia law if a state elected a Muslim
legislature and governor. It keeps extreme right wingers from enacting
Christian Sharia law on others that are not Christian. Want to see where Church
and State mixed, ask Gov. Boggs and his extermination order on Mormons which was
UnConstitutional yet was allowed to happen. Keep CHurch and State separate.
Re:BrahmaBullFrom the LDS website:"At some point
the Church stopped ordaining male members of African descent, although there
were a few exceptions. It is NOT KNOWN precisely why, how or when this
restriction began in the Church, but it has ended.""“The origins of priesthood availability are not entirely clear.
Some explanations with respect to this matter were made in the absence of direct
revelation and references to these explanations are sometimes cited in
publications. These previous personal statements do not represent Church
RE: Separation of Church and State PROTECTS the LDS Church. It is what STOPS
other religions from legislating the LDS CHurch as a cult separation of Church
and State PROTECTS the LDS Church. It is what STOPS other religions from
legislating the LDS Church as a cult. True, Signs of a cult:1
Deify man: Man can become God. 2. Humanize God, Deny God is one eternally. 3.
Minimize sin, Instead of man’s very nature. 4. Ostracize and add to
scripture 5. A diiferent Jesus (exalted man) 6. Different spirit(familiar)7.
Secret sacreds or sacred secrets closed to the outside 8. The only true church
…..and many more
It's strange this obsession with claiming God made gays that way. It's
a logical fallacy that leads to the belief all behaviors are "God's
design". Did God make achoholics that way? Did God make people who are
depressed that way? Do we then have to accept achoholism as a lifestyle to be
celebrated? It's a confused world we live in.
@TruthseekerThank you for your citation here. There appears to be some
serious revising going on here, even changing some section headings of the
Doctrine and Covenants to absolve leaders of their involvement in the matter.But instead of clarity it clouds the issue. What is doctrine and what is
merely "practice"? And do statements from the PR department and
clarifications to curriculum materials have any real authority?The church
is facing political pressure to ordain women. Is there bedrock doctrine to ban
such practices? Methinks it would have to be chapter and verse from canonized
scripture to withstand revision.
To "JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt" there is nothing in the Constitution
about separation of church and state. That was invented later and has been
perpetuated as fact when in reality it is a myth.The Constitution
states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,
or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" Establishing a religon means that
the government cannot set up a state religion, like the Church of England.
jskainsYour train of thought is confusing. Did god make depressed
people? Yes. Did he make bipolar, autistic, downs syndrome, obsessive
compulsive, psychopathic, paranoid people? Yes, all of the above. I am in no way
comparing homosexuals to a disease, but yes god does make people the way they
are. Whether they are physical differences, or mental, yes god made them that
way. Do you think somebody who is bipolar chose to be that way? Get real.
Truthseeker - Nice try. so in 1949 when the first presidency said it
was a direct revelation from god and a doctrine not a policy they were wrong? Or
is it that the first presidency now is wrong in saying they don't know
where it came from? It can't be both. Either the previous first presidency
was wrong or the current one is wrong. Which one is it? This is how the church
has wiggled out of uncomfortable doctrines. No matter if it was said to be
revelation or a vision or anything, the current first presidency can just say it
was his opinion and it wasn't doctrine.
ay Ophelia, just read the Bible on Leviticus 18:22, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and
also 1 Timothy 1:9-11. We have to stand for what is right and normal, do not try
to change the order of nature God Established, tolerance Yes, acceptance NO.
Why do LDS church leaders and members spend so much time debating and judging
same-sex attraction/gays/gay lifestyle/gay identity, etc? It seems so crude,
immature, and just plain wrong to focus on a person's genitals instead of
their soul. I think it's beautiful when two people discover a deep
emotional connection and want to commit to helping each other through this life.
Love makes the world a better place. Given all the horrible things going on in
the world (starvation, war, violence, and human trafficking to name a few), I
wonder why people choose to focus on this. I suspect it's because they
don't derive any pleasure in pondering REAL problems with REAL victims and
all the REAL suffering going on. Those things aren't titillating and
enjoyable. It's much more fun for them to focus on sex organs and what they
think people should and shouldn't be doing with them. It's so
Please explain to me how a homosexual person could believe a church that is
against is true and then turn around and decry the fact that the church does not
allow them to marry or practice homosexuality? Please explain it to me. And
don't come back by saying my God or church is made up because that is not
an answer to my question.
In essence, Steve Young is trying to "love the sinner and hate the
sin".THAT is Christ-like.The problem is that the
homosexual crowd is interpreting Steve Young's kindness as "homosexual
actions are not sin".When it becomes clear to them that is NOT
what Steve Young is saying, they'll turn on him in about 2.4 seconds...
Spider RicoGreeley, COPlease explain to me how a homosexual person
could believe a church that is against is true and then turn around and decry
the fact that the church does not allow them to marry or practice homosexuality?
Please explain it to me. And don't come back by saying my God or church is
made up because that is not an answer to my question.Answer:
Let's remember that Gay people who want to marry in a church want to marry
in their own church, in which they were raised. There are churches that are
happy to marry their Gay members, although most same sex weddings are performed
elsewhere.Let's keep it to one church: can you tell me why persons
raised in lds families, with lds traditions, who are Gay, would not want to be
married in the temple?Would you not want all your children to be equal?There is NO documented case of any Gay couple trying to force a church
to marry them, although there was a case of a church that had a public wedding
hall available to anyone off the street except the Gay couple who applied.
RedShirtMITCambridge, MATo "JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt"
there is nothing in the Constitution about separation of church and state. That
was invented later and has been perpetuated as fact when in reality it is a
myth.The Constitution states "Congress shall make no law respecting an
establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
Establishing a religon means that the government cannot set up a state religion,
like the Church of England.It is very hard to see why someone could
claim that "no established relgion allowed" is not separation of church
es·tab·lish [ i stábblish ] 1.start or
set up something: to start or set up something that is intended to continue or
be permanent2.place something permanently: to place something securely and
permanently in a position, situation, or condition3.confirm truth of
something: to investigate something and prove or confirm its truth or
validity======== RedShirtMIT Cambridge,
MATo "JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt" there is nothing in the
Constitution about separation of church and state. That was invented later and
has been perpetuated as fact when in reality it is a myth.The
Constitution states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment
of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" Establishing a
religion means that the government cannot set up a state religion, like the
Church of England.8:17 a.m. Sept. 17, 2013======= OK RedShirt -- What religion is the Government trying to
establish, and which ones is it trying to keep Free?Then, Ask yourself those very same questions, and see who's REALLY
trampling the Constitution and the religious freedom of all Americans.[Hint: it ain't the Government.]
To "Bob K" establishing a state religion is quite different from
allowing churches and government to co-mingle when appropriate. For example, a
display of the 10 commandments on public property is not an endorsement of a
specific religion. There are many religions that believe in the bible.
However, it is not a separation of church and state. The state and a church
have joined together on a project that hopefully beautifies and edifies. The
same can be said for crosses or statues of religious icons on public property.
As long as there is not favortism of a single religion over all others, what
harm is it to allow religion and government to co-mingle?To "LDS
Liberal" currently the government is trying to establish Secular Humanism
(athiesism) as the state religion. The IRS has recognized it as a religion, and
it does meet the definition of religion that states that it is a set of beliefs.
You are correct that it isn't the government destroying freedoms, it is
@BobKI understand that they would want to get married in the church they
were raised in. But if in the case of some churches allowing such would mean
that the church's doctrine is untrue, and by extention, the church is not
true. This is particularly the case with the LDS Church that believes its
leaders are prophets, seers, and revelators. If homo marriage is allowed in the
temple then everything taught in the temple is not true and therefore the church
is not true. You see the problem? If homosexuals want to be treated with love
and respect by church members I'm right in line, but if they want temple
marriage it can't work. It is not feasible.
I know a counselor, raised LDS, who helps people with same-sex attraction. She
says a fraction have a hormone pattern erroneously configured before they were
born. She uses non-invasive therapy to help them change. The rest choose
homosexuality/lesbianism due to other pressures. Last I heard she was moving out
of the country. It's uncertain what the percentage is with a hormone
imbalance; it probably varies individually. But if there is order in the
universe, and if God created male and female, it stands to reason there is
someone for everyone of the opposite gender. Maybe it's impossible to meet
this person in this life, but it's harder to meet this person if one
purposely chooses a lifestyle which interferes with meeting someone of the
opposite sex. In my opinion a same-sex attraction often means: 1)There is
someone of the opposite sex with those same qualities to meet later on, and 2)
It is time for one of those two people to move away from the other one (to
another state/country or job) because you can't have too many people with
extremely similar physical characteristics and personality qualities in the same
As a straight LDS myself, I can say I LOVE MY LGBT brothers and sisters! I was
at this event! I felt love that I had never felt before. I felt forgiveness, I
felt people reaching out, I felt hurt and pain that I knew I would never feel
because I am not ostracized by the very community that is supposed to love me
the MOST.Nosea asked how can one be a member of the LGBT community
and still be in good faith with the church. REALLY? How can one judge our gay
brothers and sisters and consider THEMSELVES in good standing? These folks WANT
to be part of our church but they are given a choice---celibacy for the rest of
their lives, or live in hiding with a partner.Their families often
say, "You are dead to me! Pack your things and leave!" They give up
prospects of marriage and the benefits of it, as well as the warmth and love of
companionship when they come out and still want to go to church. The sacrifice
is great, and it is a total SHAME.
RobRaven I just wanted to tell you that you rock! One day, I pray, one day you
will be able to live more comfortably. I am so thankful you are out in the open
and love who you are. GOD loves you as you are.We LDS sometimes
forget that we too had "sexual sins" that were just ungodly wrong to the
rest of the world: POLYGAMY. Shame on us for judging and not loving!
Judy Finch's comment is all wrong. God did not make Gay children...we were
perfect and it's our choices that change that. As for Steve Young's
choice to be involved I believe it is a way to receive more attention and
notoriety. The Proclamation says it the way it is...you veer away from the
Truth and there will be heartache and pain. The Lord loves all of his children
but does not and will not tolerate those who harm His children and choose to go
the other way. There will always be consequences for our choices.
Bob K"Let's keep it to one church: can you tell me why
persons raised in lds families, with lds traditions, who are Gay, would not want
to be married in the temple?Would you not want all your children to be
equal?" Referring to marriages performed in the Temples:And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word,
which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto
them by the Holy Spirit of promise… they shall pass by the angels, and the
gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath
been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation
of the seeds forever and ever. D&C 132:19This essentially is
saying that sealed couples of the opposite sex will have the privilege of having
children in the eternal worlds. God sees marriage as between male and female.
The scriptures support this.
May I suggest that God does not have a pen, so that Scriptures have passed
through the hands of men, and may need new interpretations?What
happens if your mormon son is Gay and is seen out with his boyfriend? Is it not
a sin to tell a lie when asked who he was with? Would you raise only your Gay
kid to be a liar and to be ashamed of who he is? Suppose your son is quite
effeminate or your daughter quite butch, so that lying is especially stupid.Where in Scripture does Jesus say "Lie or be silent in situations
where others speak up, so no one has to deal with your being different"?No one young in a medium or big city thinks Gay people should lie.
Everyone knows it leads to problems and more lying.I recall so well,
years ago, "Why don't those Black people just act like us, and why
don't they stay on their side of town?"Churches need to
spend more time asking God how to deal with their Gay sons and daughters, and
less time devising rules about how to treat them as 2nd or 3rd class citizens.
To "Bob K" if a gay mormon teen had a boyfriend, he is already comitting
sin. He knows that it is wrong to be acting out on his feelings is wrong before
he lies to cover his tracks.Would you raise your child to think that
his urges are more important than God's commands? Or that your child
"knows more" than the Prophets who speak for God?
If God is all knowing and all powerful and created all things then God created
homosexuals, just as he/she created heterosexuals. Maybe your problem is with
God, not homosexuals.Heterosexuals have certain feelings; and can
act on them. But homosexuals have those same; certain feelings; and
shouldn't act on them? So says a book written by man purported to be the
word of God. Why test homosexuals, but not heterosexuals in the same fashion.
Perhaps the test isn't for homosexuals. But is a test for the rest of us to
see if we truly understand the lessons we all should have learned about what it
means to be human; to treat others with respect and kindness and charity. If you don't want to fully include homosexuals in your church, you
have that right. And you can build all the bridges you want, but no one will
cross them if they are treated in a second class way once they get to the other
side. They may take a nostalgic stroll over, but aren't likely to stay.********************
Building bridges to the "gay community" is strictly a one-way bridge to
them, nothing in return. Compromise to them means do it their way as they wish
or they'll hold their breath. No compromise or no attempt to show empathy
to those who believe differently than them. Their way or the pink highway.
Steve Young has my full respect and has for a long time. I bleed red but that
matters not when it comes to recognizing the character of Steve Young.
If you support Gay's and Lesbians who are helping destroy families then you
are against families. Right? You would have to agree with that to a degree.If you are against families then you are against Christ because that is
the central focus of His plan.So, basically you are Anti-Christ.Think long and hard before you decide to parade around wearing that