I'm sure Steve has his heart in the right place and I applaud him for
taking this stance. However, I do remember him discussing, several years ago,
about getting involved in politics. Is this a precursor to his campaign? Just
Why do we still talk about it? God had already spoken and loves the sinner but
not the sin. Tolerance yes, Acceptance never.
Asking a Church to change its beliefs to fit the trends of society is laughable.
How can a homosexual person believe the LDS Church, or anyother church that
believes homosexuality is a sin, is true then turn around and say gay marriage
should be allowed in the Church? Please somebody explain this to me? Please?
Pretty Please? And don't say my God is made up and my church isn't
true because that is not my question.
Ranch posted:=The women you mention have the choice to marry if they
so choose. They choose=not to. Therein lies the difference.And
gays and lesbians have the choice to marry if they so choose, in every single
state of the Union.Do you really think that in all cases a lesbian
has more of a need to marry another lesbian (or a bisexual, I guess) than one of
these women has a need to marry a worthy priesthood holder? And yet
there's a shortage; in a monogamous society of necessity some of these
women can't marry those worthy priesthood holders. Monogamy requires such
women to either lower their standards or go single for the rest of their
lives.I'd be a lot more prone to accept a lesbian's (or a
gay man's) right to marry if some provision were made for these women to
@ RanchLOL. I know the scriptures. I wasn't judging
Homosexuals. I was making it abundantly clear what God thinks about homosexual
acts.You probably are a fan of homosexuals marrying where I am not.
How is THAT helping them? You think God is ok with them marrying? Why would he
be? How could he be? Yes he is a loving and merciful God but he is also just
as well and he follows the laws he has established.How does
homosexual marriage fit into the plan of salavation? It doesn't. Probably
not what you want to hear but it is a fact. You can try and put it into the
equation but it doesn't fit.It is amazing how you can say I am
judging them when I am just stating what is in the scriptures. The church has
said to be Homosexual ( feelings, tendencies, etc.) is OK but to act upon those
tendencies is not ok.
Ranch said: "Your god is also "man-made"; you have no proof
otherwise."You're wrong. Just because you don't have
proof or refuse to acknowledge the evidence doesn't mean that I fall into
the same situation you are in. Some people choose to see and some are willfully
blind.Further, the accusation I made earlier about a
"man-made" God is directed to those who would impose their own
world-views on the God they worship. I have done the opposite. I have tried to
make my world-views conform to His through study, prayer, and obedience. I am
not His creator but rather He has created me.There have been times
that has been very inconvenient as I have wanted to believe something different
than what He teaches. But every time I have humbled myself and learned and
followed the counsel of God, I have found it worked to my benefit. A true God is
one that is smarter than me, not one who mirrors and reflects my own opinions.
With love and understanding, the church reaches out to all God’s children,
"-- Demanding celibacy and aloneness is not love nor is it
understanding.@cats;Homosexuality is not an addiction.
I could make the claim that religion is though; and it is most definitely a
choice (as is bigotry). We're not "doing wrong", you are by
discriminating and judging.@joe5;" If it was me and
my personal eternity was on the line..."You don't know what
our personal eternity is going to be. Take the beam out of your eye before
trying to remove the mote from mine. Your god is also "man-made"; you
have no proof otherwise.@Rikitikitavi;No thank you.
It's only a MANS opinion.@greatbam22;Your god also
says that judging someone else is a sin. Go sinner!@kvnsmnsn;The women you mention have the choice to marry if they so choose. They
choose not to. Therein lies the difference.
"Also, celibacy is okay to those who choose it. To force others, however to
do so is not right and never will be."No one is forced to do
anything. That runs contrary to the gospel.
"Could you be celibate for the rest of your life with no hope ever for
enjoying one of the most basic human needs?"That would depend on
the person. Tim Gunn is openly gay as well as openly celibate. Difficult for
some and possible for others.
I think Steve Young and his wife are good people. They have a close relative,
whom they love, who is gay. Walk a ways in their steps before you get too
judgmental. Steve has done much to share his testimony and demonstrate his
loyalty to the gospel. I wish I...and most of us...had done as much. And the snarky comment about public opinion leading to revelation is kind of
Jrp7sen posted:=That is cruel and I don;t think any God would force
anyone to be alone and=single their whole lives.There are
women whose lives are so spiritually attuned to God that they wouldn't
think of marrying someone that wasn't as committed to the LDS Church as
they are, and yet (for whatever reason) have never been able to find someone to
marry. Is it cruel for God to in essence force them "to be alone and single
their whole lives"? Why do gays and lesbians have more of a right to marry
than they do?
Donn posted:=RE Chris B, No one is born a sinner. I may have desires
to do incorrect and=immoral things.==Wrong,Psalm 51:5 we all
come into the world as sinners: "Behold, I was brought=forth in
iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me."==Ephesians 2:3 we
are all "by nature children of wrath." If we are all "by=nature children of wrath," it can only be because we are all by nature=sinners--for God does not direct His wrath towards those who are not
guilty.=God did not create the human race sinful, but upright. But we fell
into sin and=became sinful due to the sin of Adam.Donn, are
you saying that God punishes us for something Adam did? Or that God punishes us
for doing what our nature compels us to do? If so, why should I believe that?
@ jrp7senThat is your OPINION of God. According to his word (the
scriptures) which we as LDS people believe to true your statement is completely
wrong. God says the complete opposite of what you have said.LEV
18:2222 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is
abomination. DUET 23:1717 There shall be no whore of the
daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel. JUDE
1:77 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in
like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange
flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
God has already spoken concerning homosexuality as a sin. You can
make up any opinion you want to of God but I'll stick with his word and the
word of his living prophets. In a world which is becoming more and more selfish
it doesn't surprise me that you don't believe in sacrifice.
Is Steve aware that he will be addressing a group, of which many, are
"practicing" homosexuals?They do not subscribe to the
Church's policy of remaining celibate in this life?If Steve
endorses the Church's stated position on this matter and their
"Proclamation of the Family", then good for him.However, if
he is still promoting Gay Marriage and hoping one day to see such marriages
performed in LDS Temples, then he would be out of sync with the Church and most
of it's members.
How about the words of an Apostle of the Lord: see Elder Neil L. Anderson,
October conference, 2012, "Trial of your Faith". All should reread this.
As public opinion sympathizes more with the LGBT community a revelation is
certain to follow.
RE Chris B, No one is born a sinner. I may have desires to do incorrect and
immoral things.Wrong,Psalm 51:5 we all come into the world as
sinners: "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother
conceived me." Ephesians 2:3 we are all "by nature children
of wrath." If we are all "by nature children of wrath," it can only
be because we are all by nature sinners--for God does not direct His wrath
towards those who are not guilty. God did not create the human race sinful, but
upright. But we fell into sin and became sinful due to the sin of Adam.Jeremiah 17:9 says that "the heart is more deceitful than all else and is
desperately sick; who can understand it." Original sin--wickedness is a
property of the human heart.Ecclesiastes 9:3 declares a similar
truth: "...the hearts of the sons of men are full of evil, and insanity is
in their hearts through their lives." Again, the human heart is sinful, and
therefore all humans are sinful.
Stop The Nonsense, it appears you misread a lot. First off, Affirmation is a
group for gay mormons and former mormons. Probably moreso the second. Nowhere
does it stay Young has changed his opinion on Marriage Equality. Also, you
completely misread Chad's post.And yes, the comparison to alcoholism
is completely offensive.
Chad,Two questions/comments.First, homosexuality vs
heterosexuality is only about sex. Men make "deep personal connections"
all the time with other men and yet they are not homosexuals if they aren't
sexually attracted to other males. Same with women. Second, in
regards to only wanting love and acceptance, can you clarify?So you
want us to love and accept you and other gays, or love and accept choices of
homosexual relationships?One of those I can and will do The other god does not want me to do and therefore I will not.
I lost a lot of respect for Steve after the whole Prop 8 thing. I attended a YSA
conference in Oakland, CA shortly after that in which he spoke(I had just
returned home from my mission), and there were lots of people who were
disappointed that he was asked to be the keynote speaker. Glad to hear that he
is changing his approach now (encouraging church members to be more receptive to
gay members/visitors, rather than going against church leadership in support of
gay marriage).That being said, I have the utmost respect for people
like ChadF who do their best to stay faithful despite being homosexual. I have
friends who are in your same boat. I also have friends who--although not
homosexual--have gone their whole lives without finding "the one" and
still obey the law of chastity. All have my respect and admiration. Keep
fighting the good fight, my brother.
jrp7sen: You say: "I don't think any God ..." If it was me and my
personal eternity was on the line I would make absolute sure instead of acting
on imposing my personal views on God. Isaiah says that his thoughts are not our
thoughts so whatever justice you may "think" there is in your opinion,
you would be better served to spend your time determining for sure what is His
opinion.In essence, your God is man-made if you create him in your
own image. I don't think it works that way.
I disagree with the first few comments. I do not particualarly agree with the
church's stance. It is not a trial. It is exactly the same as a straight
marriage or relationship. You cannot expect gays and lesbians to go
celibate because of how they were born. That is cruel and I don;t think any God
would force anyone to be alone and single their whole lives. To wait until death
to express love to another man. (Because this "trial" won't go away
after death, sexuality is intertwined, I am sure, with you for the eternities)
Also, celibacy is okay to those who choose it. To force others,
however to do so is not right and never will be.
Celibacy is not an impossible or unreasonable choice. There are many people of
all faiths who live alone, some by choice and some by circumstances, who are
also virtuous.Props to Chris B - I agree.
Comparing homosexuality with other addictions is perfectly rational and
appropriate. It just isn't politically correct. And...behavior is ALWAYS
a choice!I admire people who struggle with physical desires and yet
choose to live the law of chastity. There are single people who are never able
to marry who choose to live the law of chastity. There are those who struggle
with SSA and still choose to live the law of chastity. I really respect and
admire those people.Who I don't respect are returned
missionaries who put their gay so-called "marriage" proposals on youtube
and flaunt it. Then they put it on the news and go on national talk shows with
it. They claim their families are supportive. I know the family of one of them
and they are NOT supportive and are broken hearted. These guys are doing
everything they can to flaunt this even though they KNOW what they are doing is
wrong.So sad to see someone choosing a self-destructive life over a
healthy, happy life. So sad to see someone breaking their family's hearts.
The Young's had a sign on their lawn opposing Prop 8 during the campaign.
Steve Young's wife contributed money opposing Prop 8. Steve
declined to say publically his position on Prop 8.Re:ChrisBComparing homosexuality to alcoholism is ridiculous.
Chris B,The alcohol point is one I make all the time, but not with
alcohol.If I said "I'm attracted to women who have [A
TRAIT]". That could be 'big women', red-heads, blonde women who
wear lots of bright pink... it could be whatever excuse a man will make not to
look at his wife but another woman.You may find the new 'hot
young brilliant blonde secretary in high heels and a short skirt'
attractive. (like my Hollywood stereotype? lol) But that doesn't magically
take away your ability to choose what you're doing Friday night. Only an
absolute fool would use that as an argument to explain to his wife why he fooled
around with the secretary.I love burgers, but EVERYONE knows that
suing 5 guys for making me fat would be insane.Convincing yourself
you were born without a choice is as irrational as it is deceptive. God
doesn't give us commandments we can't keep. He also didn't give
us a life without temptation. But the choice to act on temptations is ours.I affirm we're all tempted, but I don't affirm actions which
As a gay Mormon, I am so excited to see people like Steve Young showing support
and love for a demographic that has a very rough time in the church.Also, I just want to provide a counterpoint to the other comments on this
thread. Homosexuality is NOT just about sex, it is about the whole range of
deep, personal connection. Encouraging people attracted to the same sex to marry
the opposite gender is a horrible thing and causes horrible pain because
it's built on such a horrible foundation. You'll have your Josh Weeds
of course, but for most people this a truly devastating option.This
leaves two options: Celibacy or losing the church. Could you be celibate for the
rest of your life with no hope ever for enjoying one of the most basic human
needs? Would you give up the Church in order to be married to the love of your
life? The amount of suicide, pain, and heartbreak in the gay community is so
high because of this problem.All we LGBT Mormons need from you is
love. Love and acceptance is all you need to do. And truly, that is all Christ
Chris is right...we are all given temptations to overcome. Chris' might be
alcohol, hers might be pornography and his might be homosexuality. Not acting
on those temptations makes you stronger.I'm not doing so well
on my challenges and feel very sad for those who have to overcome same sex
attraction. Human intimacy is more powerful than a desire to consume alcohol,
watch explicit material or overcome self doubt.I hope the QB (who is
smart and wise) can help.
Chris BYour best 3 posts ever. BYU Joe
I think that is the first time I have ever seen the LDS church get a compliment
for their stance on gays. I'm serious. I live in the bay area and if you
aren't completely for every gay right you can think of then you are wrong.
It's hard to deal with. Good for Steve though. I think that
would be hard to do, I just have no idea what I would say if I tried to do
something like this.
Alcoholism runs in my family. I could even say I was born with. Predisposition
to alcoholism. That does not make me bad. It just means
I have to be careful and make sure I don't follow those cravings and
desires. The same can be said of homosexuality.I applaud
the Lds church for their understanding approach to this difficult issue some
face. I hope this conference can help those in need.
It is possible to be kind to others while maintaining(even openly and
continually) that certain life choices are wrong. No one is born a
sinner. I may have desires to do incorrect and immoral things. That is not
wrong. It's only wrong when those become actions. I
like the Mormon approach.
I think the Mormons have taken a fair and correct approach to homosexuality. God loves everyone and whether one chooses to be a certain way or is
born that way, he will never condone homosexual relationships. Everyone is born
with challenges and he expects us to do what is right, even when we don't
want to. Good job Mormons. I stand with you on this.