The Constitution of the United States and the subsequent case law that flows
from It do not agree with the premise of this article. It is the
author's prerogative to hold values that are morally askew, which she does,
but, at the end of the day, the law doesn't support such assertions so
it's really time for anti-choice folks to recognize this fact and deal with
it. On the other hand, if the article were to address Obama's
moral duplicity in actual, legally recognized theaters, such as drone strikes,
then the author may actually retain a semblance of legitimacy. And
for my fellow LDS who incorrectly believe that abortion is killing an unborn
child, please remember that in the explicit cases wherein an abortion is allowed
by the Church, we are asked to prayerfully address our decision. In other
words, we're asked to "seek God's blessing" for the abortion -
a point this author actually mocks when discussing Obama's speech to
It's a little acknowledged fact that the GOP party platform is squarely and
directly contradictory to LDS church policy with regard to abortion. Both in
2008 and in 2012, the national GOP party platform called for criminalizing all
abortions. All of them, no exceptions. This is completely out of line with LDS
church policy which recognizes the legitimacy of abortion when pregnancy occurs
as the result of rape or incest, the life or the health of the mother is in
serious jeopardy, or the fetus has severe defects that will not allow the child
to survive beyond birth. In short, the LDS church agrees that
abortions should, as Democrats say, be safe, legal, and rare. Republicans want
to criminalize the decision of the 16 year old impregnated by her step-father,
the 32 year old with serious medical complications, and the relief society
president who has been told her unborn child has serious hydrocephalus. So all you GOPers help me understand, why is it for so many of you that
abortion the big reason LDS church members should vote for Republicans rather
@GandalfSalt Lake City, UTIt's a little acknowledged fact
that the GOP party platform is squarely and directly contradictory to LDS church
policy with regard to abortion. Both in 2008 and in 2012, the national GOP party
platform called for criminalizing all abortions. All of them, no exceptions.
This is completely out of line with LDS church policy...=========
Agreed.GOP leaders have come right about rape and
abortion saying;"legitimate rapes" will terminate by
themselves, Atkins victims should learn to make lemonade from lemons,
Anglerape victims should .."make the best of a bad situation.”
Santorumvictims of rape - “If it’s inevitable, just relax and
enjoy it”. Clayton WilliamsWhat sort of compassion does the
GOP feel toward the victims of Ariel Castro in Cleveland?Not to
mention the Doctor in the Delivery room trying to decide to save the woman, or face going to jail for the rest of his life?And since the
LDS Church does not recognize, record or perform sealing unborn fetuses, I'd say the LDS Church and Conservative Republican agenda are not in
harmony.Because they aren't.The LDS Church is politically
neutral in regards to abortion.
A great point. Why care about a few hundred kids across the globe while the US
kills a million a year because they are inconvenient.And what do
the abortion supporters do when such a great hypocrisy is pointed out?Attack the Mormons and the GOP of course.Predictable, and lame, as
IMO, the support of bigotry and discrimination by religious leaders and the
right, leaves them no room to talk about "moral authority".
"...This president not only sits by and allows wanton murder of unborn
children. He supports and endorses it..."When Ronald Reagan was
the Gov. of California, he signed into law an abortion bill that led to the
murder of over 2,000,000 babies.Why no outrage about the moral
leadership of THE republican icon?
Looks like someone has found a new soap box...2nd week, 2nd
letter from Star Parker, author and president of CURE.
@badger "Attack the Mormons and the GOP of cours"So
this hit peo e was what hugs and kisses towards Obama and liberals? Attacking others then playing the victim has become a conservative trademark.
Nothing undermines the Presidents' moral leadership like the folks in Utah.
Abortion, on the other hand, is just a result of their approach to sex.
I voted for President Obama twice. I agree with much of what he has done.
Obamacare especially. however his moral authority on the environment, to tell us
to cut back on carbon emissions after he used Two airplanes to send his family
to Hawaii one for himself and the other for his wife and kids, ... has eroded.
Obama is the President, no matter how the Democrats keep wishing that a
Republican held that office.We went to war against the greatest
military power in the world in 1776 so that we could break away from a power
that had little respect for "life", "liberty" and the
"pursuit of happiness".We told the entire world that our
CREATOR had endowed us with those unalieniable rights.Now the
government allows a woman to destroy the fruit of her womb for any reason,
unilaterally and we deny life to the unborn. Obama encourages it. Instead of
protecting the most innocent among us, some people bluster and march to allow
our unborn children to be aborted. So far, they've done a pretty good job
of it. 55,000,000 unborn children have been aborted since Roe v Wade.
That's the combined population of California, Oregon and Washington.Obama encourages it. The Democrats insist on it in their platform.
I agree with this article. Sadly our presidents do not always present moral
leadership or adhere to what has come to be called "traditional" moral
values, the values that tens of millions of us still hold. I think the
protection of life and liberty are key to the acceptable morals of any
president, and the "traditional" home with a married father and mother,
and children, their own offspring unless they are unable to sire or conceive and
bear their own.Like so many things it is not entirely a partisan
issue; people of either party and neither party are proponents and upholders of
Remember folks,Republicans will say all kinds of things about what
they are going to do, but they will NEVER do anything about it!It's a political Red Herring, their Ace card, their voting block bread
and butter.They accuse Democrat of not wanting to help people off of
welfare because it's their biggest voting block, Well guess what...
The same can be said about Reagan and the Bushes. I don't even need to
bring up the person with the worst morals in the history of a White House admin,
Dick Cheney.First and foremost, none of those "moral" presidents
ever attempted to change the laws on abortion. Not once.Secondly, they all
felt as if dropping bombs on some poor country was somehow moral and their
supporters did as well.Finally, their economic policies have proven to be
incredibly immoral as well. They've done more to keep kids hungry and
families below the poverty level than any other group ever has.
Planned Parenthood provides 1/4 of the abortions done in the U.S.Planned
Parenthood is the single biggest provider of abortion prevention--in the form of
contraceptives to prevent unplanned pregnancies."Abortion-inducing drugs are included along with contraception that
employers are mandated to provide free to employees under
"Obamacare,"Not true. Obamacare DOES NOT cover abortion
inducing drugs. It does cover drugs to prevent ovulation and fertilization.Conservative's opposition to education and wide use of
contraceptives actually increases abortion rates.
Star,Lovely article.But you are wasting your breath with dems.
Rabid, pro-abortion dogma is THE main tenet of the dem party, and you cannot be
a good dem without strict adherence.Stalwart,I guess you
didn’t read the article – Star is not arguing the legality of
infanticide, just the morality. Your justification, using what many view as a
distortion of LDS policy, for your unbridled support of infanticide, is morally
reprehensible.Ranch,IMO, your blanket labeling of religious
leaders as bigoted and discriminatory is bigoted and discriminatory. DN,
DON’T YOU DARE block this comment because I use the EXACT same words Ranch
uses!spring street,Please proof read – I have no idea
what the first part of your comment saysAttacking others then
blaming the victim has always been a lib trademark.
"A great point. Why care about a few hundred kids across the globe while the
US kills a million a year because they are inconvenient.And what do
the abortion supporters do when such a great hypocrisy is pointed out?Attack the Mormons and the GOP of course.Predictable, and lame, as
usual."Badger, its not a "great point", sorry. The U.S.
does not kill a million children a year. First of all, I don't believe your
numbers, but even if they are true the U.S. did not kill those fetuses. Maybe
U.S. CITIZENS had that many abortions. But neither the government, nor President
Obama, forced one person to have an abortion. In Syria the
government did kill those people. So like I said, not a great point. And no
hypocrisy. Badger, can you look at the comments above yours and tell
us which one is attacking Mormons? Just copy and paste the line you think is an
@Mike RichardsOne problem with your comment -- before a birth
occurs, there is no child. There is only a body under construction which will
ultimately house a spirit when the spirit joins the body and a child comes into
being. In order for a child to be sealed to his/her parents, according to the
requirements for sealing of the LDS Church, there first must be a birth and a
breath be taken by the newborn. When I asked why, I was told by a Church
representative that it was because, unless those conditions were met, the spirit
was not considered to have joined the body and the resulting entity was not
considered to have lived. Why are you attempting to assert your position over
that of the Church to which you claim to belong?Abortion is indeed
wrong, except in the most necessary of conditions, but not because a life is
taken. It is because a life is denied its then-mortality because the shell in
which it was to use while in mortality was made unavailable and he/she has to
wait for another to be created, thereby delaying mortality.
Look at how many people use their own logic to tell us when life starts. They
pretend to be illiterate. God told us that OUR lives started long before we
were conceived. He told us he knew us. He told us He associated with us. The
time between conception and birth is part of our eternal life. Obama does not
understand that concept. Most of those who defend abortion do not understand
that concept. God understands it. He has shared it with us through His
spokesmen, the prophets. (Jeremiah 1:4-5, Isaiah 49:1)A child, born
or unborn, is precious to God. He created all things so that those children
could show Him that they would follow His counsel. Those who destroy the life,
born or unborn, crown themselves as rulers because they reject the Ruler who
gave them life.
Wasn't abortion decided like 30+ years ago by the Supreme Court?How does this effect Obama's "leadership?" Or any
President's leadership? The court has decided this issue. Lets
Mike, you cite two Old Testament verses for the idea that people who are
pro-choice do not understand that life exists from the time of conception
through birth. Like you, I believe the Old Testament is scripture. Please read
Exodus 21:22-23 and tell me what you think those verses mean. Don't they
suggest, if not come right out and say, that life doesn't begin at
conception? As for the pre-mortal existence, like you I believe in
that. But it doesn't address a critical question with regard to abortion.
Namely, when does the spirit enter the body? At conception? With a fetal
heartbeat? At the time the fetus begins to move? At the time of viability? At
the time a baby draws its first breath? LDS church doctrine and statements from
latter day prophets and apostles have never declared when the spirit enters the
body Mike. The Church's policy on abortion is unequivocal: whenever the
spirit enters the body, it is justifiable to terminate a pregnancy under the
three circumstances identified in the policy. How do you know when
the spirit enters the body?
@GandalfThe Democratic platform of no restrictions for any reason
any time and no medical oversight gave us Kermit Gosnell and is far more
extremist that the Republican platform; so your criticism is hollow. Even most
wildly liberal European countries prohibit abortion after 20 weeks.@truth seekerYes Obamacare requires the subsidy of abortion
inducing drugs (you can call them morning after pills, but they are variation on
a theme depending on dosage, and they essentially cause a miscarriage) so you
repeating a falsehood does not make it true. And Planned Parenthood was started
by Margaret Sanger who advocated eugenics to eliminate undesirable populations
and today still disproportionately aborts minority babies@spring
streetthe left complaining about conservatives "playing victim" is
hilarious- I am sure it must be annoying for the left to have their very own
passive aggressive tactics reflected back at them: you must feel like poor
little victim - but expect no sympathy
Gandalf,I have never claimed that life starts at conception. Life
is everlasting. Life started long before conception and it continues forever
after death. Did you read those two scriptures? In Jeramiah we learn that
BEFORE we were formed in the womb, God knew us. Perhaps more recent scripture
explains things better. Abraham 3:23 shows that God appointed Abraham to be a
leader among men BEFORE Abraham was born.To think that men and women
destroy the spirit offspring of Diety because they can't be bothered with
the "inconvenience" of spending part of their lives with those noble
spirits who come to earth clothed in flesh is beyond understanding. We stand in
the midst of greatness, but our lack of understanding leads some to destory
those children before they arrive.Obama battled for
after-birth-abortion when he was a State Senator in Illinois. He hasn't
changed. He cares not at all for the children of our Heavenly Father. He
encourages abortion. He demands that pills be paid for by religious
organizations to stop conception and to halt conception. Yet, he tells us how
much he cares for the children of Syria.
"God told us that OUR lives started long before we were conceived. He told
us he knew us. He told us He associated with us. The time between conception and
birth is part of our eternal life. Obama does not understand that concept.
"Haha, yes Richards, President Obama does not understand that
concept. Imagine that, there are many, many people that do not think like you.
Yes, many people do not believe in the fairy tales you believe in. Go figure.
"The Democratic platform of no restrictions for any reason any time and no
medical oversight gave us Kermit Gosnell"No medical oversight?
You mean regulations? Like the regulations your ilk constantly complain about?
Like the regulations in the ACA? That your ilk is screaming about? No
regulations? Good heavens! It's republicans and conservatives that
constantly whine about having to much oversight. It's republicans and
conservatives that want to get rid of all government regulation! You know, make
government so small you can drown it in a bathtub. And now you are saying you
want more?! Make up your mind. Oh, and by the way, Gosnell is doing
a life sentence with no chance of parole. And you won't find one Democrat
that came to his defense. He was a criminal. "To think that men
and women destroy the spirit offspring of Diety"So you think
that spirits are everlasting, yet you also believe that men and women can
destroy them. That's silly. Oh well, the whole thing sounds like a goofy
movie, with a bad plot.
Obama has done nothing more and nothing less to overturn Roe v Wade than any
other president elected since the Supreme Court decision was made. Yet, based
on the blather from Parker, Richards, CI, DC and other 'conservatives'
here, you'd swear that Obama invented abortion and forced it upon an
unwilling populous.I'm always amazed at those that call
themselves 'conservatives' and readily quote selected religious text,
yet engage so freely to perpetuate lies and dishonesty.
@CounterIntell"abortion inducing drugs (you can call them morning
after pills, but they are variation on a theme depending on dosage, and they
essentially cause a miscarriage)"You are factually incorrect.Provide a medical source which supports your statement.A
miscarriage involves a fertilized, implanted egg. Morning after pills either
prevent release of an egg or fertilization of the egg by the sperm. There has
been no evidence to date that morning after pills cause miscarriages.
@Counter IntelligenceSalt Lake City, UTYes Obamacare requires
the subsidy of abortion inducing drugs (you can call them morning after pills,
but they are variation on a theme depending on dosage, and they essentially
cause a miscarriage) so you repeating a falsehood does not make it true.======== RU-486 works by NOT allowing the egg to embed
itself into the wall of the uterus in the first 7 weeks orspontaneously abort within the first trimester.60% of all
fertilized human eggs NATURALLY suffer the same fate.Are you
implying that God is committing murder, because science is doing the same
thing?Because I disagree with you.
Mike, when you can get pregnant you are entitled to an opinion.
@lost in DC;The truth hurts, doesn't it. Bigotry is evil, and
today's Christianity in the USA practices bigotry very, very well.
The only proven methods in the real world of reducing abortion are women's
rights, reproductive education and birth control. All of which republicans
oppose. By opposing the methods that reduce abortion, it's
republicans that are pro-abortion and causing more of them, democrats are only
pro-choice as directed by the constitution and courts.
Re:LDSLiberalRU-486 is considered/classified as an abortifacient and
IS NOT included in Obamacare laws or regulations. The "morning
after pills," Ella and Plan B are not classified/considered to be
abortifacients, acting to prevent ovulation or fertilization, and are included
I agree with Stalwart Sentinel that this article doesn't compare the
correct things in evaluating President Obama. As an Independent (that usually
leans to the Democratic side) I do not support abortion. And if people would
research President Obama's stance on it, they would find that he does not
as well. What we do support is the prevention of unwanted pregnancy which
ultimately causes abortion. There have been success with the programs instigated
by Democrats in that regard. Also, I believe that most of us that would support
an extreme situation of abortion (extreme situations such as rape, incest and so
forth) find that the prevention of a child coming into such a sad situation is
better than the alternative (abuse, welfare, and so forth). Also, the extreme
right disagree with us as to when life starts in the womb. As a woman that has
had miscarriages, I find that those early lives lost was not the same as a full
fledged baby. I do not support late term abortion (and it is illegal) but would
rather suggest adoption rather than that situation just as the Obama
administration would too.
all I can say is WOW iam glad so many no the LDS Church s stand on abortions
seems to me many of talk of no knowledge read again what the 1st Presidency has
stated. You who are LDS best do some more checking as opposed to believing what
you read. Many people seem to know things that they don't know. As far as
the comment Repubs are against any abortion, once again chapter and verse. Start
doing some homework people before you run amuck with your ideas and
markDo you ever read your posts?You allegation that my "ilk"
opposes all regulations is YOUR intolerance.I have never said I want NO
government- I want appropriate government. Simply because you cant tell the
difference is not an indication of any problem on my partTexas
zealot Wendy Davis has been canonized by the far left for advocating all the
policies that allow back alley abortions to flourish: lack of oversight, lack of
medical access, lack of late term restrictions AND Planned Parenthood was fully
aware of Gosnell and never once reported him because they didn't want
government oversight into their shoddy business practices either.TruthseekerLDS liberal pretty much answered your questions. Plan B and
Ella are little different that RU486 - so you are merely playing semantic word
games. Morning after pills prevent fertilized eggs from implanting and/or cause
them to 'sluff off'.LDS liberalAre you implying you
have the authority to be God?
Re:CounterIntell"The abortion pill, also known as mifepristone
or RU-486 ("medical abortion" or "medication abortion"), is a
different drug from ella, Plan B One-Step, Next Choice One Dose, My Way and
Levonorgestrel Tablets, which are approved for sale as emergency contraception
in the United States. Emergency contraceptive pills (also called “morning
after pills" or "day after pills") prevent pregnancy primarily by
delaying or inhibiting ovulation; they do not cause an abortion." (Princeton)Scientists have long considered Morning After pills
safe enough to be sold over-the-counter.RU--486 is not even
available from pharmacies in the U.S. It can only be dispensed from a Dr.
Do I even read my posts, Counter intelligence? Uh. . . Yes. Not only do I read
them I write them. Are you really telling me you don't see the
humor in a conservative whining that democrats are not proposing ENOUGH
regulations. Too classic, a conservative that wants more regulation. Oh, wait,
that's only in something he wants regulated. By the way, making government
so small that you could drown it in the bathtub, as Republican icon Grover
Norquist wants, would, by necessity, get rid of ALL government regulation. You
know, that's what makes me laugh me about conservatives: they really have
no firm foundation, they will say anything and defend anything just to make
their point. It does not matter how contradictory it is. Oh, and
don't get too hung up with the ilk thing, I'm just having a bit of fun
with RedShirt's favorite word. You really are trying to say
that Wendy Davis or Planned Parenthood are in any way responsible for Gosnell?
Or that they supported him or had any idea what he was doing? Please. Give it a
Problem is... Our President is very selective about when he gets
"moral".Assad killed hundreds of innocent children, but
Obama didn't get "moral" about it till he used gas.Maybe he would care about Abortion IF they used gas to kill the babies.It just seems he's very selective about when he wants to be seen as
the "Moral" leader.
Truthseeker"The drug, dubbed ella, would be sold as a contraceptive --
one that could prevent pregnancy for as many as five days after unprotected sex.
But the new drug is a close chemical relative of the abortion pill RU-486,
raising the possibility that it could also induce abortion by making the womb
inhospitable for an embryo." Washington PostMark"You
really are trying to say that Wendy Davis or Planned Parenthood are in any way
responsible for Gosnell?" Yes Planned Parenthood admitted knowing
of Gosnell and doing nothing. Davis advocates for all the policies that allowed
Gosnell to operate
A 2010 study 3 of ulipristal acetate (ella) found that at certain doses, it can
decrease the thickness of the endometrium (by 0.6 to 2.2 mm), but it is not
clear that this would in fact prevent the implantation of a fertilized egg.
(Princeton edu)The constant references to Plan B and ella as
abortion-causing pills frustrates Susan Wood, a professor of health policy at
George Washington University and a former assistant commissioner for
women's health at the FDA."It is not only factually
incorrect, it is downright misleading. These products are not
abortifacients," she says. "And their only connection to abortion is
that they can prevent the need for one."NIH scientist Blithe
says studies have also shown that ella, like Plan B, doesn't prevent
pregnancy if a woman has already ovulated. Women who took the drug after
ovulation got pregnant at the same rate as those who took nothing at all. She
says that strongly suggests it does not have any effect on blocking