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Comments about ‘What others say: Abortion support undermines Obama's moral leadership’

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Published: Friday, Sept. 13 2013 1:44 p.m. MDT

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Gandalf
Salt Lake City, UT

Mike, you cite two Old Testament verses for the idea that people who are pro-choice do not understand that life exists from the time of conception through birth. Like you, I believe the Old Testament is scripture. Please read Exodus 21:22-23 and tell me what you think those verses mean. Don't they suggest, if not come right out and say, that life doesn't begin at conception?

As for the pre-mortal existence, like you I believe in that. But it doesn't address a critical question with regard to abortion. Namely, when does the spirit enter the body? At conception? With a fetal heartbeat? At the time the fetus begins to move? At the time of viability? At the time a baby draws its first breath? LDS church doctrine and statements from latter day prophets and apostles have never declared when the spirit enters the body Mike. The Church's policy on abortion is unequivocal: whenever the spirit enters the body, it is justifiable to terminate a pregnancy under the three circumstances identified in the policy.

How do you know when the spirit enters the body?

Counter Intelligence
Salt Lake City, UT

@Gandalf

The Democratic platform of no restrictions for any reason any time and no medical oversight gave us Kermit Gosnell and is far more extremist that the Republican platform; so your criticism is hollow. Even most wildly liberal European countries prohibit abortion after 20 weeks.

@truth seeker

Yes Obamacare requires the subsidy of abortion inducing drugs (you can call them morning after pills, but they are variation on a theme depending on dosage, and they essentially cause a miscarriage) so you repeating a falsehood does not make it true. And Planned Parenthood was started by Margaret Sanger who advocated eugenics to eliminate undesirable populations and today still disproportionately aborts minority babies

@spring street
the left complaining about conservatives "playing victim" is hilarious- I am sure it must be annoying for the left to have their very own passive aggressive tactics reflected back at them: you must feel like poor little victim - but expect no sympathy

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

Gandalf,

I have never claimed that life starts at conception. Life is everlasting. Life started long before conception and it continues forever after death. Did you read those two scriptures? In Jeramiah we learn that BEFORE we were formed in the womb, God knew us. Perhaps more recent scripture explains things better. Abraham 3:23 shows that God appointed Abraham to be a leader among men BEFORE Abraham was born.

To think that men and women destroy the spirit offspring of Diety because they can't be bothered with the "inconvenience" of spending part of their lives with those noble spirits who come to earth clothed in flesh is beyond understanding. We stand in the midst of greatness, but our lack of understanding leads some to destory those children before they arrive.

Obama battled for after-birth-abortion when he was a State Senator in Illinois. He hasn't changed. He cares not at all for the children of our Heavenly Father. He encourages abortion. He demands that pills be paid for by religious organizations to stop conception and to halt conception. Yet, he tells us how much he cares for the children of Syria.

mark
Salt Lake City, UT

"God told us that OUR lives started long before we were conceived. He told us he knew us. He told us He associated with us. The time between conception and birth is part of our eternal life. Obama does not understand that concept. "

Haha, yes Richards, President Obama does not understand that concept. Imagine that, there are many, many people that do not think like you. Yes, many people do not believe in the fairy tales you believe in. Go figure.

mark
Salt Lake City, UT

"The Democratic platform of no restrictions for any reason any time and no medical oversight gave us Kermit Gosnell"

No medical oversight? You mean regulations? Like the regulations your ilk constantly complain about? Like the regulations in the ACA? That your ilk is screaming about? No regulations? Good heavens! It's republicans and conservatives that constantly whine about having to much oversight. It's republicans and conservatives that want to get rid of all government regulation! You know, make government so small you can drown it in a bathtub. And now you are saying you want more?! Make up your mind.

Oh, and by the way, Gosnell is doing a life sentence with no chance of parole. And you won't find one Democrat that came to his defense. He was a criminal.

"To think that men and women destroy the spirit offspring of Diety"

So you think that spirits are everlasting, yet you also believe that men and women can destroy them. That's silly. Oh well, the whole thing sounds like a goofy movie, with a bad plot.

silo
Sandy, UT

Obama has done nothing more and nothing less to overturn Roe v Wade than any other president elected since the Supreme Court decision was made. Yet, based on the blather from Parker, Richards, CI, DC and other 'conservatives' here, you'd swear that Obama invented abortion and forced it upon an unwilling populous.

I'm always amazed at those that call themselves 'conservatives' and readily quote selected religious text, yet engage so freely to perpetuate lies and dishonesty.

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

@CounterIntell
"abortion inducing drugs (you can call them morning after pills, but they are variation on a theme depending on dosage, and they essentially cause a miscarriage)"

You are factually incorrect.

Provide a medical source which supports your statement.

A miscarriage involves a fertilized, implanted egg. Morning after pills either prevent release of an egg or fertilization of the egg by the sperm. There has been no evidence to date that morning after pills cause miscarriages.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

@Counter Intelligence
Salt Lake City, UT

Yes Obamacare requires the subsidy of abortion inducing drugs (you can call them morning after pills, but they are variation on a theme depending on dosage, and they essentially cause a miscarriage) so you repeating a falsehood does not make it true.

========

RU-486 works by NOT allowing the egg to embed itself into the wall of the uterus in the first 7 weeks
or
spontaneously abort within the first trimester.

60% of all fertilized human eggs NATURALLY suffer the same fate.

Are you implying that God is committing murder, because science is doing the same thing?
Because I disagree with you.

Bebyebe
UUU, UT

Mike, when you can get pregnant you are entitled to an opinion.

Ranch
Here, UT

@lost in DC;

The truth hurts, doesn't it. Bigotry is evil, and today's Christianity in the USA practices bigotry very, very well.

redshirt007
tranquility base, 00

The only proven methods in the real world of reducing abortion are women's rights, reproductive education and birth control. All of which republicans oppose.

By opposing the methods that reduce abortion, it's republicans that are pro-abortion and causing more of them, democrats are only pro-choice as directed by the constitution and courts.

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

Re:LDSLiberal

RU-486 is considered/classified as an abortifacient and IS NOT included in Obamacare laws or regulations.

The "morning after pills," Ella and Plan B are not classified/considered to be abortifacients, acting to prevent ovulation or fertilization, and are included in Obamacare.

Kimber
Salt Lake City, UT

I agree with Stalwart Sentinel that this article doesn't compare the correct things in evaluating President Obama. As an Independent (that usually leans to the Democratic side) I do not support abortion. And if people would research President Obama's stance on it, they would find that he does not as well. What we do support is the prevention of unwanted pregnancy which ultimately causes abortion. There have been success with the programs instigated by Democrats in that regard. Also, I believe that most of us that would support an extreme situation of abortion (extreme situations such as rape, incest and so forth) find that the prevention of a child coming into such a sad situation is better than the alternative (abuse, welfare, and so forth). Also, the extreme right disagree with us as to when life starts in the womb. As a woman that has had miscarriages, I find that those early lives lost was not the same as a full fledged baby. I do not support late term abortion (and it is illegal) but would rather suggest adoption rather than that situation just as the Obama administration would too.

tgurd
Gonzales, LA

all I can say is WOW iam glad so many no the LDS Church s stand on abortions seems to me many of talk of no knowledge read again what the 1st Presidency has stated. You who are LDS best do some more checking as opposed to believing what you read. Many people seem to know things that they don't know. As far as the comment Repubs are against any abortion, once again chapter and verse. Start doing some homework people before you run amuck with your ideas and unsubstantiated comments

Counter Intelligence
Salt Lake City, UT

mark
Do you ever read your posts?
You allegation that my "ilk" opposes all regulations is YOUR intolerance.
I have never said I want NO government- I want appropriate government. Simply because you cant tell the difference is not an indication of any problem on my part

Texas zealot Wendy Davis has been canonized by the far left for advocating all the policies that allow back alley abortions to flourish: lack of oversight, lack of medical access, lack of late term restrictions AND Planned Parenthood was fully aware of Gosnell and never once reported him because they didn't want government oversight into their shoddy business practices either.

Truthseeker
LDS liberal pretty much answered your questions. Plan B and Ella are little different that RU486 - so you are merely playing semantic word games. Morning after pills prevent fertilized eggs from implanting and/or cause them to 'sluff off'.

LDS liberal
Are you implying you have the authority to be God?

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

Re:CounterIntell

"The abortion pill, also known as mifepristone or RU-486 ("medical abortion" or "medication abortion"), is a different drug from ella, Plan B One-Step, Next Choice One Dose, My Way and Levonorgestrel Tablets, which are approved for sale as emergency contraception in the United States. Emergency contraceptive pills (also called “morning after pills" or "day after pills") prevent pregnancy primarily by delaying or inhibiting ovulation; they do not cause an abortion."
(Princeton)

Scientists have long considered Morning After pills safe enough to be sold over-the-counter.

RU--486 is not even available from pharmacies in the U.S. It can only be dispensed from a Dr.

mark
Salt Lake City, UT

Do I even read my posts, Counter intelligence? Uh. . . Yes. Not only do I read them I write them.

Are you really telling me you don't see the humor in a conservative whining that democrats are not proposing ENOUGH regulations. Too classic, a conservative that wants more regulation. Oh, wait, that's only in something he wants regulated. By the way, making government so small that you could drown it in the bathtub, as Republican icon Grover Norquist wants, would, by necessity, get rid of ALL government regulation. You know, that's what makes me laugh me about conservatives: they really have no firm foundation, they will say anything and defend anything just to make their point. It does not matter how contradictory it is.

Oh, and don't get too hung up with the ilk thing, I'm just having a bit of fun with RedShirt's favorite word.

You really are trying to say that Wendy Davis or Planned Parenthood are in any way responsible for Gosnell? Or that they supported him or had any idea what he was doing? Please. Give it a break.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Problem is... Our President is very selective about when he gets "moral".

Assad killed hundreds of innocent children, but Obama didn't get "moral" about it till he used gas.

Maybe he would care about Abortion IF they used gas to kill the babies.

It just seems he's very selective about when he wants to be seen as the "Moral" leader.

Counter Intelligence
Salt Lake City, UT

Truthseeker
"The drug, dubbed ella, would be sold as a contraceptive -- one that could prevent pregnancy for as many as five days after unprotected sex. But the new drug is a close chemical relative of the abortion pill RU-486, raising the possibility that it could also induce abortion by making the womb inhospitable for an embryo." Washington Post

Mark
"You really are trying to say that Wendy Davis or Planned Parenthood are in any way responsible for Gosnell?" Yes
Planned Parenthood admitted knowing of Gosnell and doing nothing. Davis advocates for all the policies that allowed Gosnell to operate

Truthseeker2
SAN LUIS OBISPO, CA

A 2010 study 3 of ulipristal acetate (ella) found that at certain doses, it can decrease the thickness of the endometrium (by 0.6 to 2.2 mm), but it is not clear that this would in fact prevent the implantation of a fertilized egg.
(Princeton edu)

The constant references to Plan B and ella as abortion-causing pills frustrates Susan Wood, a professor of health policy at George Washington University and a former assistant commissioner for women's health at the FDA.

"It is not only factually incorrect, it is downright misleading. These products are not abortifacients," she says. "And their only connection to abortion is that they can prevent the need for one."

NIH scientist Blithe says studies have also shown that ella, like Plan B, doesn't prevent pregnancy if a woman has already ovulated. Women who took the drug after ovulation got pregnant at the same rate as those who took nothing at all. She says that strongly suggests it does not have any effect on blocking implantation."
(NPR 2013)

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