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What others say: Abortion support undermines Obama's moral leadership

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  • Truthseeker2 SAN LUIS OBISPO, CA
    Sept. 17, 2013 9:06 a.m.

    A 2010 study 3 of ulipristal acetate (ella) found that at certain doses, it can decrease the thickness of the endometrium (by 0.6 to 2.2 mm), but it is not clear that this would in fact prevent the implantation of a fertilized egg.
    (Princeton edu)

    The constant references to Plan B and ella as abortion-causing pills frustrates Susan Wood, a professor of health policy at George Washington University and a former assistant commissioner for women's health at the FDA.

    "It is not only factually incorrect, it is downright misleading. These products are not abortifacients," she says. "And their only connection to abortion is that they can prevent the need for one."

    NIH scientist Blithe says studies have also shown that ella, like Plan B, doesn't prevent pregnancy if a woman has already ovulated. Women who took the drug after ovulation got pregnant at the same rate as those who took nothing at all. She says that strongly suggests it does not have any effect on blocking implantation."
    (NPR 2013)

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 17, 2013 6:10 a.m.

    Truthseeker
    "The drug, dubbed ella, would be sold as a contraceptive -- one that could prevent pregnancy for as many as five days after unprotected sex. But the new drug is a close chemical relative of the abortion pill RU-486, raising the possibility that it could also induce abortion by making the womb inhospitable for an embryo." Washington Post

    Mark
    "You really are trying to say that Wendy Davis or Planned Parenthood are in any way responsible for Gosnell?" Yes
    Planned Parenthood admitted knowing of Gosnell and doing nothing. Davis advocates for all the policies that allowed Gosnell to operate

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 16, 2013 2:01 p.m.

    Problem is... Our President is very selective about when he gets "moral".

    Assad killed hundreds of innocent children, but Obama didn't get "moral" about it till he used gas.

    Maybe he would care about Abortion IF they used gas to kill the babies.

    It just seems he's very selective about when he wants to be seen as the "Moral" leader.

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 16, 2013 9:47 a.m.

    Do I even read my posts, Counter intelligence? Uh. . . Yes. Not only do I read them I write them.

    Are you really telling me you don't see the humor in a conservative whining that democrats are not proposing ENOUGH regulations. Too classic, a conservative that wants more regulation. Oh, wait, that's only in something he wants regulated. By the way, making government so small that you could drown it in the bathtub, as Republican icon Grover Norquist wants, would, by necessity, get rid of ALL government regulation. You know, that's what makes me laugh me about conservatives: they really have no firm foundation, they will say anything and defend anything just to make their point. It does not matter how contradictory it is.

    Oh, and don't get too hung up with the ilk thing, I'm just having a bit of fun with RedShirt's favorite word.

    You really are trying to say that Wendy Davis or Planned Parenthood are in any way responsible for Gosnell? Or that they supported him or had any idea what he was doing? Please. Give it a break.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Sept. 16, 2013 2:09 a.m.

    Re:CounterIntell

    "The abortion pill, also known as mifepristone or RU-486 ("medical abortion" or "medication abortion"), is a different drug from ella, Plan B One-Step, Next Choice One Dose, My Way and Levonorgestrel Tablets, which are approved for sale as emergency contraception in the United States. Emergency contraceptive pills (also called “morning after pills" or "day after pills") prevent pregnancy primarily by delaying or inhibiting ovulation; they do not cause an abortion."
    (Princeton)

    Scientists have long considered Morning After pills safe enough to be sold over-the-counter.

    RU--486 is not even available from pharmacies in the U.S. It can only be dispensed from a Dr.

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 15, 2013 9:22 p.m.

    mark
    Do you ever read your posts?
    You allegation that my "ilk" opposes all regulations is YOUR intolerance.
    I have never said I want NO government- I want appropriate government. Simply because you cant tell the difference is not an indication of any problem on my part

    Texas zealot Wendy Davis has been canonized by the far left for advocating all the policies that allow back alley abortions to flourish: lack of oversight, lack of medical access, lack of late term restrictions AND Planned Parenthood was fully aware of Gosnell and never once reported him because they didn't want government oversight into their shoddy business practices either.

    Truthseeker
    LDS liberal pretty much answered your questions. Plan B and Ella are little different that RU486 - so you are merely playing semantic word games. Morning after pills prevent fertilized eggs from implanting and/or cause them to 'sluff off'.

    LDS liberal
    Are you implying you have the authority to be God?

  • tgurd Gonzales, LA
    Sept. 15, 2013 1:27 p.m.

    all I can say is WOW iam glad so many no the LDS Church s stand on abortions seems to me many of talk of no knowledge read again what the 1st Presidency has stated. You who are LDS best do some more checking as opposed to believing what you read. Many people seem to know things that they don't know. As far as the comment Repubs are against any abortion, once again chapter and verse. Start doing some homework people before you run amuck with your ideas and unsubstantiated comments

  • Kimber Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 15, 2013 11:32 a.m.

    I agree with Stalwart Sentinel that this article doesn't compare the correct things in evaluating President Obama. As an Independent (that usually leans to the Democratic side) I do not support abortion. And if people would research President Obama's stance on it, they would find that he does not as well. What we do support is the prevention of unwanted pregnancy which ultimately causes abortion. There have been success with the programs instigated by Democrats in that regard. Also, I believe that most of us that would support an extreme situation of abortion (extreme situations such as rape, incest and so forth) find that the prevention of a child coming into such a sad situation is better than the alternative (abuse, welfare, and so forth). Also, the extreme right disagree with us as to when life starts in the womb. As a woman that has had miscarriages, I find that those early lives lost was not the same as a full fledged baby. I do not support late term abortion (and it is illegal) but would rather suggest adoption rather than that situation just as the Obama administration would too.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Sept. 15, 2013 1:32 a.m.

    Re:LDSLiberal

    RU-486 is considered/classified as an abortifacient and IS NOT included in Obamacare laws or regulations.

    The "morning after pills," Ella and Plan B are not classified/considered to be abortifacients, acting to prevent ovulation or fertilization, and are included in Obamacare.

  • redshirt007 tranquility base, 00
    Sept. 14, 2013 10:18 p.m.

    The only proven methods in the real world of reducing abortion are women's rights, reproductive education and birth control. All of which republicans oppose.

    By opposing the methods that reduce abortion, it's republicans that are pro-abortion and causing more of them, democrats are only pro-choice as directed by the constitution and courts.

  • Ranch Here, UT
    Sept. 14, 2013 9:00 p.m.

    @lost in DC;

    The truth hurts, doesn't it. Bigotry is evil, and today's Christianity in the USA practices bigotry very, very well.

  • Bebyebe UUU, UT
    Sept. 14, 2013 7:49 p.m.

    Mike, when you can get pregnant you are entitled to an opinion.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Sept. 14, 2013 6:47 p.m.

    @Counter Intelligence
    Salt Lake City, UT

    Yes Obamacare requires the subsidy of abortion inducing drugs (you can call them morning after pills, but they are variation on a theme depending on dosage, and they essentially cause a miscarriage) so you repeating a falsehood does not make it true.

    ========

    RU-486 works by NOT allowing the egg to embed itself into the wall of the uterus in the first 7 weeks
    or
    spontaneously abort within the first trimester.

    60% of all fertilized human eggs NATURALLY suffer the same fate.

    Are you implying that God is committing murder, because science is doing the same thing?
    Because I disagree with you.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Sept. 14, 2013 5:16 p.m.

    @CounterIntell
    "abortion inducing drugs (you can call them morning after pills, but they are variation on a theme depending on dosage, and they essentially cause a miscarriage)"

    You are factually incorrect.

    Provide a medical source which supports your statement.

    A miscarriage involves a fertilized, implanted egg. Morning after pills either prevent release of an egg or fertilization of the egg by the sperm. There has been no evidence to date that morning after pills cause miscarriages.

  • silo Sandy, UT
    Sept. 14, 2013 3:08 p.m.

    Obama has done nothing more and nothing less to overturn Roe v Wade than any other president elected since the Supreme Court decision was made. Yet, based on the blather from Parker, Richards, CI, DC and other 'conservatives' here, you'd swear that Obama invented abortion and forced it upon an unwilling populous.

    I'm always amazed at those that call themselves 'conservatives' and readily quote selected religious text, yet engage so freely to perpetuate lies and dishonesty.

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 14, 2013 2:23 p.m.

    "The Democratic platform of no restrictions for any reason any time and no medical oversight gave us Kermit Gosnell"

    No medical oversight? You mean regulations? Like the regulations your ilk constantly complain about? Like the regulations in the ACA? That your ilk is screaming about? No regulations? Good heavens! It's republicans and conservatives that constantly whine about having to much oversight. It's republicans and conservatives that want to get rid of all government regulation! You know, make government so small you can drown it in a bathtub. And now you are saying you want more?! Make up your mind.

    Oh, and by the way, Gosnell is doing a life sentence with no chance of parole. And you won't find one Democrat that came to his defense. He was a criminal.

    "To think that men and women destroy the spirit offspring of Diety"

    So you think that spirits are everlasting, yet you also believe that men and women can destroy them. That's silly. Oh well, the whole thing sounds like a goofy movie, with a bad plot.

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 14, 2013 2:10 p.m.

    "God told us that OUR lives started long before we were conceived. He told us he knew us. He told us He associated with us. The time between conception and birth is part of our eternal life. Obama does not understand that concept. "

    Haha, yes Richards, President Obama does not understand that concept. Imagine that, there are many, many people that do not think like you. Yes, many people do not believe in the fairy tales you believe in. Go figure.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Sept. 14, 2013 12:56 p.m.

    Gandalf,

    I have never claimed that life starts at conception. Life is everlasting. Life started long before conception and it continues forever after death. Did you read those two scriptures? In Jeramiah we learn that BEFORE we were formed in the womb, God knew us. Perhaps more recent scripture explains things better. Abraham 3:23 shows that God appointed Abraham to be a leader among men BEFORE Abraham was born.

    To think that men and women destroy the spirit offspring of Diety because they can't be bothered with the "inconvenience" of spending part of their lives with those noble spirits who come to earth clothed in flesh is beyond understanding. We stand in the midst of greatness, but our lack of understanding leads some to destory those children before they arrive.

    Obama battled for after-birth-abortion when he was a State Senator in Illinois. He hasn't changed. He cares not at all for the children of our Heavenly Father. He encourages abortion. He demands that pills be paid for by religious organizations to stop conception and to halt conception. Yet, he tells us how much he cares for the children of Syria.

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 14, 2013 11:43 a.m.

    @Gandalf

    The Democratic platform of no restrictions for any reason any time and no medical oversight gave us Kermit Gosnell and is far more extremist that the Republican platform; so your criticism is hollow. Even most wildly liberal European countries prohibit abortion after 20 weeks.

    @truth seeker

    Yes Obamacare requires the subsidy of abortion inducing drugs (you can call them morning after pills, but they are variation on a theme depending on dosage, and they essentially cause a miscarriage) so you repeating a falsehood does not make it true. And Planned Parenthood was started by Margaret Sanger who advocated eugenics to eliminate undesirable populations and today still disproportionately aborts minority babies

    @spring street
    the left complaining about conservatives "playing victim" is hilarious- I am sure it must be annoying for the left to have their very own passive aggressive tactics reflected back at them: you must feel like poor little victim - but expect no sympathy

  • Gandalf Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 14, 2013 11:38 a.m.

    Mike, you cite two Old Testament verses for the idea that people who are pro-choice do not understand that life exists from the time of conception through birth. Like you, I believe the Old Testament is scripture. Please read Exodus 21:22-23 and tell me what you think those verses mean. Don't they suggest, if not come right out and say, that life doesn't begin at conception?

    As for the pre-mortal existence, like you I believe in that. But it doesn't address a critical question with regard to abortion. Namely, when does the spirit enter the body? At conception? With a fetal heartbeat? At the time the fetus begins to move? At the time of viability? At the time a baby draws its first breath? LDS church doctrine and statements from latter day prophets and apostles have never declared when the spirit enters the body Mike. The Church's policy on abortion is unequivocal: whenever the spirit enters the body, it is justifiable to terminate a pregnancy under the three circumstances identified in the policy.

    How do you know when the spirit enters the body?

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Sept. 14, 2013 11:31 a.m.

    Wasn't abortion decided like 30+ years ago by the Supreme Court?

    How does this effect Obama's "leadership?" Or any President's leadership? The court has decided this issue.

    Lets move on

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Sept. 14, 2013 11:13 a.m.

    Look at how many people use their own logic to tell us when life starts. They pretend to be illiterate. God told us that OUR lives started long before we were conceived. He told us he knew us. He told us He associated with us. The time between conception and birth is part of our eternal life. Obama does not understand that concept. Most of those who defend abortion do not understand that concept. God understands it. He has shared it with us through His spokesmen, the prophets. (Jeremiah 1:4-5, Isaiah 49:1)

    A child, born or unborn, is precious to God. He created all things so that those children could show Him that they would follow His counsel. Those who destroy the life, born or unborn, crown themselves as rulers because they reject the Ruler who gave them life.

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    Sept. 14, 2013 10:05 a.m.

    @Mike Richards

    One problem with your comment -- before a birth occurs, there is no child. There is only a body under construction which will ultimately house a spirit when the spirit joins the body and a child comes into being. In order for a child to be sealed to his/her parents, according to the requirements for sealing of the LDS Church, there first must be a birth and a breath be taken by the newborn. When I asked why, I was told by a Church representative that it was because, unless those conditions were met, the spirit was not considered to have joined the body and the resulting entity was not considered to have lived. Why are you attempting to assert your position over that of the Church to which you claim to belong?

    Abortion is indeed wrong, except in the most necessary of conditions, but not because a life is taken. It is because a life is denied its then-mortality because the shell in which it was to use while in mortality was made unavailable and he/she has to wait for another to be created, thereby delaying mortality.

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 14, 2013 9:48 a.m.

    "A great point. Why care about a few hundred kids across the globe while the US kills a million a year because they are inconvenient.

    And what do the abortion supporters do when such a great hypocrisy is pointed out?

    Attack the Mormons and the GOP of course.

    Predictable, and lame, as usual."

    Badger, its not a "great point", sorry. The U.S. does not kill a million children a year. First of all, I don't believe your numbers, but even if they are true the U.S. did not kill those fetuses. Maybe U.S. CITIZENS had that many abortions. But neither the government, nor President Obama, forced one person to have an abortion.

    In Syria the government did kill those people. So like I said, not a great point. And no hypocrisy.

    Badger, can you look at the comments above yours and tell us which one is attacking Mormons? Just copy and paste the line you think is an attack.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Sept. 14, 2013 8:57 a.m.

    Star,
    Lovely article.

    But you are wasting your breath with dems. Rabid, pro-abortion dogma is THE main tenet of the dem party, and you cannot be a good dem without strict adherence.

    Stalwart,
    I guess you didn’t read the article – Star is not arguing the legality of infanticide, just the morality. Your justification, using what many view as a distortion of LDS policy, for your unbridled support of infanticide, is morally reprehensible.

    Ranch,
    IMO, your blanket labeling of religious leaders as bigoted and discriminatory is bigoted and discriminatory. DN, DON’T YOU DARE block this comment because I use the EXACT same words Ranch uses!

    spring street,
    Please proof read – I have no idea what the first part of your comment says

    Attacking others then blaming the victim has always been a lib trademark.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Sept. 14, 2013 8:52 a.m.

    Planned Parenthood provides 1/4 of the abortions done in the U.S.
    Planned Parenthood is the single biggest provider of abortion prevention--in the form of contraceptives to prevent unplanned pregnancies.

    "Abortion-inducing drugs are included along with contraception that employers are mandated to provide free to employees under "Obamacare,"

    Not true. Obamacare DOES NOT cover abortion inducing drugs. It does cover drugs to prevent ovulation and fertilization.

    Conservative's opposition to education and wide use of contraceptives actually increases abortion rates.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 14, 2013 8:17 a.m.

    The same can be said about Reagan and the Bushes. I don't even need to bring up the person with the worst morals in the history of a White House admin, Dick Cheney.
    First and foremost, none of those "moral" presidents ever attempted to change the laws on abortion. Not once.
    Secondly, they all felt as if dropping bombs on some poor country was somehow moral and their supporters did as well.
    Finally, their economic policies have proven to be incredibly immoral as well. They've done more to keep kids hungry and families below the poverty level than any other group ever has.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Sept. 14, 2013 8:17 a.m.

    Remember folks,

    Republicans will say all kinds of things about what they are going to do,
    but they will NEVER do anything about it!

    It's a political Red Herring, their Ace card, their voting block bread and butter.

    They accuse Democrat of not wanting to help people off of welfare because it's their biggest voting block,
    Well guess what...

  • Gildas LOGAN, UT
    Sept. 14, 2013 7:24 a.m.

    I agree with this article. Sadly our presidents do not always present moral leadership or adhere to what has come to be called "traditional" moral values, the values that tens of millions of us still hold. I think the protection of life and liberty are key to the acceptable morals of any president, and the "traditional" home with a married father and mother, and children, their own offspring unless they are unable to sire or conceive and bear their own.

    Like so many things it is not entirely a partisan issue; people of either party and neither party are proponents and upholders of "traditional" morality.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Sept. 14, 2013 6:57 a.m.

    Obama is the President, no matter how the Democrats keep wishing that a Republican held that office.

    We went to war against the greatest military power in the world in 1776 so that we could break away from a power that had little respect for "life", "liberty" and the "pursuit of happiness".

    We told the entire world that our CREATOR had endowed us with those unalieniable rights.

    Now the government allows a woman to destroy the fruit of her womb for any reason, unilaterally and we deny life to the unborn. Obama encourages it. Instead of protecting the most innocent among us, some people bluster and march to allow our unborn children to be aborted. So far, they've done a pretty good job of it. 55,000,000 unborn children have been aborted since Roe v Wade. That's the combined population of California, Oregon and Washington.

    Obama encourages it. The Democrats insist on it in their platform.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 14, 2013 2:41 a.m.

    I voted for President Obama twice. I agree with much of what he has done. Obamacare especially. however his moral authority on the environment, to tell us to cut back on carbon emissions after he used Two airplanes to send his family to Hawaii one for himself and the other for his wife and kids, ... has eroded.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Sept. 14, 2013 12:50 a.m.

    Nothing undermines the Presidents' moral leadership like the folks in Utah. Abortion, on the other hand, is just a result of their approach to sex.

  • spring street SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Sept. 14, 2013 12:20 a.m.

    @badger
    "Attack the Mormons and the GOP of cours"

    So this hit peo e was what hugs and kisses towards Obama and liberals?

    Attacking others then playing the victim has become a conservative trademark.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Sept. 13, 2013 11:08 p.m.

    Looks like someone has found a new soap box...

    2nd week,
    2nd letter from Star Parker, author and president of CURE.

  • There You Go Again Saint George, UT
    Sept. 13, 2013 10:29 p.m.

    "...This president not only sits by and allows wanton murder of unborn children. He supports and endorses it..."

    When Ronald Reagan was the Gov. of California, he signed into law an abortion bill that led to the murder of over 2,000,000 babies.

    Why no outrage about the moral leadership of THE republican icon?

  • Ranch Here, UT
    Sept. 13, 2013 8:34 p.m.

    IMO, the support of bigotry and discrimination by religious leaders and the right, leaves them no room to talk about "moral authority".

  • Badgerbadger Murray, UT
    Sept. 13, 2013 6:10 p.m.

    A great point. Why care about a few hundred kids across the globe while the US kills a million a year because they are inconvenient.

    And what do the abortion supporters do when such a great hypocrisy is pointed out?

    Attack the Mormons and the GOP of course.

    Predictable, and lame, as usual.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Sept. 13, 2013 6:09 p.m.

    @Gandalf
    Salt Lake City, UT

    It's a little acknowledged fact that the GOP party platform is squarely and directly contradictory to LDS church policy with regard to abortion. Both in 2008 and in 2012, the national GOP party platform called for criminalizing all abortions. All of them, no exceptions. This is completely out of line with LDS church policy...

    =========

    Agreed.

    GOP leaders have come right about rape and abortion saying;

    "legitimate rapes" will terminate by themselves, Atkins
    victims should learn to make lemonade from lemons, Angle
    rape victims should .."make the best of a bad situation.” Santorum
    victims of rape - “If it’s inevitable, just relax and enjoy it”. Clayton Williams

    What sort of compassion does the GOP feel toward the victims of Ariel Castro in Cleveland?

    Not to mention the Doctor in the Delivery room trying to decide to save the woman,
    or face going to jail for the rest of his life?

    And
    since the LDS Church does not recognize, record or perform sealing unborn fetuses,
    I'd say the LDS Church and Conservative Republican agenda are not in harmony.
    Because they aren't.

    The LDS Church is politically neutral in regards to abortion.

  • Gandalf Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 13, 2013 4:27 p.m.

    It's a little acknowledged fact that the GOP party platform is squarely and directly contradictory to LDS church policy with regard to abortion. Both in 2008 and in 2012, the national GOP party platform called for criminalizing all abortions. All of them, no exceptions. This is completely out of line with LDS church policy which recognizes the legitimacy of abortion when pregnancy occurs as the result of rape or incest, the life or the health of the mother is in serious jeopardy, or the fetus has severe defects that will not allow the child to survive beyond birth.

    In short, the LDS church agrees that abortions should, as Democrats say, be safe, legal, and rare. Republicans want to criminalize the decision of the 16 year old impregnated by her step-father, the 32 year old with serious medical complications, and the relief society president who has been told her unborn child has serious hydrocephalus.

    So all you GOPers help me understand, why is it for so many of you that abortion the big reason LDS church members should vote for Republicans rather than Democrats?

  • Stalwart Sentinel San Jose, CA
    Sept. 13, 2013 3:41 p.m.

    The Constitution of the United States and the subsequent case law that flows from It do not agree with the premise of this article.

    It is the author's prerogative to hold values that are morally askew, which she does, but, at the end of the day, the law doesn't support such assertions so it's really time for anti-choice folks to recognize this fact and deal with it.

    On the other hand, if the article were to address Obama's moral duplicity in actual, legally recognized theaters, such as drone strikes, then the author may actually retain a semblance of legitimacy.

    And for my fellow LDS who incorrectly believe that abortion is killing an unborn child, please remember that in the explicit cases wherein an abortion is allowed by the Church, we are asked to prayerfully address our decision. In other words, we're asked to "seek God's blessing" for the abortion - a point this author actually mocks when discussing Obama's speech to Planned Parenthood.