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Comments about ‘Oregon bakery shuts down after gay rights attacks’

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Published: Wednesday, Sept. 11 2013 9:00 p.m. MDT

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beagal
West Valley City, UT

Force is Satanic! As I recall, that preexistence approach was vetoed! In addition to the attacks this and other businesses have received, there is indeed, a scuttling of the owners' freedoms.
This is not the American I remember as a child.

Bob K
porland, OR

The story is full of exaggerations, half-truths, and whining by the baker.

The truth is that Gays are a small minority and could not damage their business if the public sentiment was not with them -- the current "Christian" way of justifying discrimination is to compare the Gays to terrorists, etc -- just complete nonsense.

Yes, turning them down is illegal in Oregon. I believe that the issue became so polarized because certain churches forced a referendum in WA ( Southern WA, right across the river is in the Porland TV market) after marriage equality easily passed the Legislature in the spring of 2012. Money and effort were spent saying terrible things about Gays, particularly in some of those churches.

My guess is that if the baker had said nicely "I'm sorry, my heart would not be in it, but I can't legally say no", the brides might have gone elsewhere. It is not necessary say something like "We are Christians, we don't believe in that" Too many times, we hear harsh words from "Christians" who think we are not Christians, since we believe a different version of Christianity.

Random
Redlands, CA

We were promised this wouldn't happen in California. I'm sorry to hear the bakery went out of business.

Jeff
Temple City, CA

@ Lane Meyer:

"I think the best way to explain this is, have they ever made an obscese cake for someone else? Or a racist cake? If they have, they need to do it for everyone.

"Had they made a wedding cake for others? Yes. Now they would not do so for a gay couple. That is what makes it discrimination under the law."

You have misunderstood me, and my point. First, I mean to say that a baker's (or photographer's) *personal* views may come into play here. It would depend entirely on what the baker of photographer personally considered to be obscene or racist, not necessarily what the customer thought. (The law, I understand, is vague on both accounts.)

Second, a wedding cake (and other personalized baked goods--similar to photography) is less a public offering than a personal statement. If the bakery made cakes that looked like wedding cakes, made them available in public display cases, and sold them to everyone but same-gender couples, then there might be an issue. But a custom-made cake is quite different; it is at least as much an expression of the baker as it is the couple.

birder
Salt Lake City, UT

I think that some members of the LGBT community are out for more than just equal rights. Some seem to want to force their opinions on everyone else. That is wrong. By way of comparison, one thing I appreciate about LDS Church leaders is that they do not attack those they disagree with. You won't go to an LDS church and find Sunday School classes on how to put down other religions like you will in some other churches.

Like others have stated, if you don't like the opinions of one business, don't do business with them. Just go elsewhere. Give your money to businesses who want your money. This wouldn't be complicated if it weren't for the agenda of the gay rights activists.

snowman
Provo, UT

SAS: Why then can business put up signs that say they have reserve the righ to refuse service to anyone. I (being a frequent visitor to Oregon)have seen these signs in business of all kinds. I went to Kmart to buy shoes for my child. My child was not allowed in the store because she did not have shoes on. I have seen resturants In, Utah and Oregon that have signs that say no shirt, no shoes, no service.

Counter Intelligence
Salt Lake City, UT

@Irony Guy, pragmatistforlife, atl134

fair enough
but perhaps our differences are semantics:

So please explain: If a feminist owned bookstore refuses to sell playboy (even though they sell other magazines) can men claim to be discriminated against?
If a Christian bookstore does not sell the Book of Mormon - are they anti-Mormon?
If a African American bookstore refuses to special order the biography of David Duke, are they inherently anti-white?

You have so broadly defined civil rights laws, that a deli who does not make kosher products would qualify as anti-Semitic.

There is No indication that the owners refused service because the patrons were gat (indeed apparently they were previous customers) - they simply don't produce gay themed products - big difference

(although I would argue that being gay is NOT like race or gender but that is for another day)

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

A bakery can refuse to bake obscene or other types of cakes. Civil Rights don't require bakeries to make all types of cakes. The bakery could choose to not make weddings cakes for anybody--but sell other types of cakes. They could also hire staff to set up the cake at same-sex weddings. Could they have side-stepped the issue by simply saying, "we aren't able to accommodate that date?

The bottom line is, they broke the law in Oregon. Choices have consequences.

poyman
Lincoln City, OR

@parkcity aggie

That's why they have higher courts and an apeal process... Losing it in OR matters not if the USSC accepts the case... Then it will be out of the hands of the state couts of OR...

Even if Justice Kennedy were to join with the 4 Justices of the Left, the ruling can eventually be overturned through another case (perhaps from a more conservative State like Texas) if the court should lean farther right... and I believe that day is coming.

One can only hope.

Kaileo
Los Angeles, CA

Religious rights activists (as many Mormons seem to fancy themselves) need to remember that they can't discriminate against someone based on their race, and that orientation is likewise protected. Oh, but you claim (however erroneously) that orientation is a choice, so it's not the same?

Well, religion is a choice... and we're not allowed to discriminate on that basis!

BigBuddha
Chandler, AZ

WOW-- that was a pretty expensive cake that they didn't bake

BigBuddha
Chandler, AZ

WORF-- Just bake the cake and collect your money..it's just that simple

zabivka
Orem, UT

I'm a staunch supporter of gay rights, but I think that it does them a disservice to try to force things too much. Rather than attack, I think they should roll with the tide of ever-increasing support that is already coming their way, and ignore those who see things differently.

While I understand how dangerous it can be to look the other way on this issue, and I realize that if a business wants to be open to the public it "should" offer its services to all people, I think its a poor long-term move to be on the attack like this.

Janet
Ontario, OR

Western Oregon is a hotbed of trendy liberal thinking, just as Utah is a hotbed of trendy conservative thinking. The bakery owners might consider relocating to eastern Oregon or Idaho. I can't see why the reaction to their standing their ground in the Portland area would surprise anyone who knows the culture there. I've never been able to understand why people live in Utah and complain endlessly about Mormons. I've lived in 11 states and all regions of the country, and I've learned that it's a lot easier to change locations than local culture.

jrp7sen
Logan, UT

Good.

It is the law. You must serve the PUBLIC. That includes gays and lesbians. If you have a permit to run a business, then you MUST serve everyone.

Besides, Jesus and God NEVER said you should stop serving your fellow man. We are taught that divorce is wrong, but we don't refuse service to those who have had a divorce, that is silly.

WAKE UP MORMONS. Thank you.

/signed an active Mormon millennial.

Cindy Kepler
Salem, OR

Oregon law is clear, and was in place when Sweet Cakes opened their doors. Our only recourse to laws we disagree with are changing them, not violating them.

This bakery did this to themselves. I feel no pity for them. Discrimination is wrong, regardless of whom it doing it or why. We all need to take care of each other and promote our strengths not use our differences against each other.

By the way, these were not militant/mafia actions. A boycott is a is a boycott, and calling vendors that the bakery worked with and letting them know that Oregonians don't want this type of discrimination is worthy and done all over our world for a variety of reasons. Breaking legs, extortion, robbery and vandalism are militant and mafia tactics.

This bakery didn't like "us" voting with our dollars, which is what drove them out of business. All of the defenders should have stood side by side and frequented the bakery to keep them afloat. Their own supporters turned their backs on them/

Cindy Kepler
Salem, OR

Counter Intelligence:
Some simple answers. The bookstore that doesn't sell certain books, just doesn't sell the book. They don't have it, they won't get it and they don't sell it to anyone. Your question would have merit if the bookstore had it but would only sell it to certain people for certain things.
A deli that doesn't sell Kosher is the same as above, they don't sell it to anyone, so they are not discriminating.
This baker should just have not sold wedding cakes knowing that they had an issue with gay weddings. That is the only scenario that matches your previous queries.

They sold wedding cakes but refused to sell one to this couple. And this for other posters is not a service. It is a product.

Cindy Kepler
Salem, OR

Here is a great analogy for you that would both provoke thought and also be illegal in Oregon. You own a convenience store. A pregnant woman walks in to purchase cigarettes. You have a moral problem against pregnant women smoking and doing harm to their child, you refuse. You have just violated the law. As horrible and repugnant as you find her smoking you have no legal right to impose your beliefs on her. You are selling them to anyone and everyone else, but not her, discrimination. *assuming you are understanding that she is of legal age so please no comments about how she has to be of legal age* This is exactly the same as the baker even if you don't want to accept it. Product for sale, issue with morals, refusal, violation. Oh and the women didn't file a lawsuit. They filed a complaint with a state agency.

Cindy Kepler
Salem, OR

Religion is CHOICE. A learned behaviour and belief.

snowman
Provo, UT

jrp7sen: Business have the right to refuse service to anyone. They do it all the time

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