Quantcast

Comments about ‘End of Boy Scouts? Christian coalition creates new scouting group’

Return to article »

Published: Monday, Sept. 9 2013 7:27 p.m. MDT

Comments
  • Oldest first
  • Newest first
  • Most recommended
donn
layton, UT

@Contrariusester, "Pro-gay opinions don't kill people. Anti-gay opinions do.That's a huge difference -- and a huge justification for recognizing that one side is filled with true hatred of the other?

When I lived in San Francisco, near golden-gate park, the Hetero-phobes were very aggressive towards Christians and would block the church entrance on occasions.

Contrariusester
mid-state, TN

@RedWings --

"Thank you for proving my point. Apparently the left are the guardians of what "oppression" is, and therefore can make the determination for society who is worthy of tolerance and who is not? "

Anti-gay opinions KILL PEOPLE. **That** is oppression. Civil rights for homosexuals is **literally** a matter of life or death.

There's an article in the DN today about a high school kid in California who was threatening to go to school to shoot "the blacks / and mexicans / halfbreeds / atheists / french / gays / liberals."

THAT is what we're fighting against.

Why in the WORLD would anyone want to tolerate attitudes that lead to this sort of threat?

Gay people in the US are still **eight times** more likely to be the victims of violent crimes than white people.

In some countries -- like Russia -- violent anti-gay mobs are egged on by the government.

In some countries homosexuality is still **punishable by death**.

That is NOT something that anyone should be asked to tolerate.

Anti-gay opinions kill. Pro-gay opinions do not.

I'll tolerate the one that doesn't kill, thanks.

Social Mod Fiscal Con
West Jordan, UT

@Phranc and @spring street

The concern is not that we are the victims. It's the moral standards our society was built on which are the victims of the LGBT agenda.

@Contrariusester

"Pro-gay opinions don't kill people"
Probably true, but history has shown a pattern of pro-gay attitudes killing off societies.

The Economist
Newport, PA

A young man growing up in Scouting, and perhaps the Mormon Church, can have a very difficult and painful experience. A young person has been indoctrinated since childhood that they need to serve a mission, get married young in the temple, have a lot of kids, and magnify their callings, among other things, to get to the Celestial Kingdom. This can deeply traumatize a young homosexually oriented adult, who has to face that getting heterosexually married may be very bad advise. Some do get married, but most of these marriages lead to unhappiness, spouses feeling unfulfilled, and end up in tragic divorce. A young adult in Scouting and in the LDS Church needs to feel welcomed and given a message that a life of Celibacy can lead to happiness, too. Other religions practice celibacy including Catholic and Buddhist Monks, Nuns, etc. I've found happiness in celibacy and have been celibate for many years. Unless the day comes that the prophet receives revelation allowing Gay Marriage in the church, the church should give a positive message of celibacy to parents as an alternative. We should offer them love and support, and help them through there situation.

Sorry Charlie!
SLC, UT

@redwings
Does Brown vs the board of education ring any bells?

A few quotes by King and Gandhi
“Judicial decrees may not change the heart, but they can restrain the heartless.” MLK
“Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is force to confront the issue. It seeks so to dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored.” MLK
“The law may not be able to make a man love me, but it can keep him from lynching me.” MLK
“Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed.” MLK
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Gandhi

@ocial Mod Fiscal Con

the social values that believed the native American was an lesser race and had no right to their lands or their lives? that value?

jsf
Centerville, UT

@Contrariusester, "Pro-gay opinions don't kill people. Anti-gay opinions do.That's a huge difference -- and a huge justification for recognizing that one side is filled with true hatred of the other?

go see the likes of Bash Back! and other violent gay activist groups, that threaten their opposition with threats of death and other violent acts.

RedWings
CLEARFIELD, UT

@Contrariusester

So, because some extremists act completely out of line and against the laws of the land, you would supress freedom of thought and expression? Funny, that is what the left usually fights against.

Again, you proove the hypocrisy that exists with the left. Police cannot "profile" blacks or Muslims, but you seem fine in profiling all religious people as gay-killing hate mongers. I may be against gay marriage and its attack on religious freedom, but I would never think of killing a gay person. We are all God's children.

If someone wants to live a secular life and act out on their same-sex attraction, that is ultimately their business. My problem is that the LGBT expect me to embrace that and celebrate a choice they made that is against my beliefs. Why do my beliefs matter so little to you when you expect me to sanction yours?

Jeffsfla
Glendale, CA

I don't want to hear from Christians that they are being marginalized. They are doing it themselves. And while doing so are limiting their childrens life experiences and not preparing them for the real world they will be entering. I think the BSA continues to do so.

Scott H
Ogden, UT

I think that offering alternative scouting organizations to those that feel that they do not fit in the large monopolistic organizations will likely strengthen scouting overall and expand the number of youth served by scouting. Perhaps this could serve as a model for other groups that would like to offer children a scouting experience more suited to their own ideals.

Still, if Trail Life USA is patterned after American Heritage Girls, its footprint will likely remain small. After 18 years of operation, AHG's membership is less than 0.7% of that of Girl Scouts USA. This approach hardly seems like a challenge to the viability of the BSA.

Contrariusester
mid-state, TN

@Social Mod --

"history has shown a pattern of pro-gay attitudes killing off societies."

Baloney.

Ancient Greece and Rome both survived for more than 1000 years each, all while encouraging homosexual relations. In fact, Rome didn't fall until a couple hundred years AFTER homosexual marriages were outlawed there.

Please name ANY society which has been killed off by "pro-gay attitudes".

@donn --

"...Hetero-phobes were very aggressive towards Christians and would block the church entrance on occasions."

First -- don't equate "Christian" with anti-gay or pro-straight. Many Christian denominations are already happy to perform gay marriages.

And second -- since when is blocking a church entrance equivalent to murder??

How many people do you think have ever been beaten or killed just for the "sin" of being straight?

@jsf --

"Bash Back!"

1. Bash Back! disbanded two years ago;

2. They were about PROTESTS, not violence; and

3. They never killed anybody, nor even injured anyone AFAIK.

@RedWings --

"you seem fine in profiling all religious people as gay-killing hate mongers."

Many gay people are religious. Seems YOU are the one who is profiling -- specifically, profiling pro-gay people as anti-Christian.

Pianoman
Salt Lake City, UT

I don't really see why Trail Life USA was created, their stance on Gay Boy Scouts is the same as the BSA stance and the LDS church's stance: if you don't act on your homosexuality, you are more welcome to join. So not sure why this new organization was created...but I am a proud eagle scout and always will be!

Ranch
Here, UT

@RedWings

1) All you have to do is google about the religious American "Christians" going to Uganda and helping craft their anti-gay laws; laws that ALLOW killing of gays and you'll find why we distrust relgious people so much.

2) I couldn't care less if you don't "embrace that and celebrate a choice they made that is against my beliefs". I do expect you to allow us the same privileges as citizens that you enjoy.

3) "Why do my beliefs matter so little to you when you expect me to sanction yours?". Again, I couldn't care less about your beliefs, as long as you're not using them to discriminate against others you disagree with.

SteveOrr4576
Wayzata, MN

I have to roll my eyes at this reverence over Gandhi. The man argued that the Jews should line up & be slaughtered by the Nazis. This is the logical conclusion of the victim mentality, folks. I find more comfort in the Christian idea that we're all children of God.

Sorry Charlie!
SLC, UT

@steve
"This is the logical conclusion of the victim mentality"? how so and what does it have to do with this conversation?

jsf
Centerville, UT

@Contrariusester They may have disbanded, but the individuals still exist and so does the violent rhetoric they used. You can not say the hate speech does not exist because this group disbanded. But claiming all lgbt are part of the same hate speech is the same as claiming all same-sex-marriage opponents equates to vile individuals who commit crimes against the lgbt community.

Contrariuser
mid-state, TN

@jsf --

"the individuals still exist and so does the violent rhetoric they used. "

Are you seriously trying to compare one small and short-lived group of angry gay men to a worldwide pattern of intimidation, violence, and murders? SERIOUSLY??

Does this mean that Warren Jeffs really DOES represent the whole Mormon religion?

;-)

"...s the same as claiming all same-sex-marriage opponents equates to vile individuals who commit crimes against the lgbt community."

Fortunately, I haven't claimed any such thing.

What I HAVE done is point out the FACT that anti-gay opinions kill.

Every time somebody says homosexuals are "sinning" -- or "disgusting" -- or "perverted" -- or "anti-family" -- or "anti-Christian" -- EVERY time somebody says any of those things, or something similar -- they're reinforcing an image of homosexuals as "other" or "less than" or "inferior".

And the reinforcement of that image -- that subhumanization -- is what makes so many people think that it's okay or even DESIRABLE to bash gay people. That constant diminishment of homosexuals' humanity is what makes violence and discrimination against them acceptable.

I'll say it again, and I'll keep saying it: anti-gay opinions kill.

The Economist
Newport, PA

@Contrariuser,

I agree with you that anti-Same-Sex-Attraction rhetoric kills, but also for some different reasons. Young men and women who experience Same-Sex Attraction and grow up in this Anti-Gay Society, such as the young men we're talking about in this article with Scouting, are more likely to commit suicide and live homelessly. Utah leads the country for the number of teenage gay suicides and homelessness. Much of this is due to negative attitudes against homosexuals that have existed within the Mormon Church, such as those publicized by some of the General Authorities in the past and especially in the book, Miracle of Forgiveness. Most all of these attitudes have been contradicted in the new church Web site, MormonsandGays.org. This was the result of a study that showed this negativity does no good at all and that showing love and support of gay youth accomplishes much more. Most importantly, if showing love and support will save a young person's life, it is worth more than money can buy.

Oatmeal
Woods Cross, UT

The Economist:

So since there have been drastic changes in society's views on homosexuality, has the suicide rate drastically decreased? No.

I seriously doubt that society's views on homosexuality was the sole or even primary cause of these suicides. The rate has remained the same.

JLFuller
Boise, ID

I just read A Trail Life's Statement of Faith and Values wherein they are quite specific about what I understand to be Trinitarianism, a confusing and unclear construct which is supposed to be fundamental to all "real" Christians according to some. I wonder if this ambiguous statement is meant to keep Mormons and other Christians who have a slightly different take on the Godhead out of the club. Of course the ATL supporters can do as they like but given the Church's passion and long-standing, strong support for The Boy Scouts of America, this seems to be loosing proposition for them. That is especially true when one considers that both groups exclude practicing homosexual leaders and those who promote the homosexual lifestyle but conditionally allow boys who suffer same sex attraction. As it stands in the BSA, each troop is free to include or exclude worship as they see fit so what is the big difference - except for the mandatory acceptance of a narrow definition of the Godhead?

worf
Mcallen, TX

What about the rights of non-gay people?

to comment

DeseretNews.com encourages a civil dialogue among its readers. We welcome your thoughtful comments.
About comments