Comments about ‘Q&A: Evangelical leader Richard Land shares views on LDS Church, threats to religious liberty, other issues’

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Published: Friday, Sept. 6 2013 3:50 p.m. MDT

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Los Angeles, CA

So, Kevin J Kirkham, i guess Moses got it wrong with the 10 Commandments. They were new scripture and they were not sustained by common consent. What a curious system.

Salt Lake City, UT

[RE] 1Timothy 2:4,*Martin Luther,"God may desire the salvation of all men but had chosen to forgo those desires for a higher, hidden purpose. If the salvation of all men was his overriding priority, he could prevent Satan from blinding the eyes of the unconverted .."
You're missing my point. If Calvinism is true, most of humanity are destined to Hell without any possibility of salvation. Their fate is sealed. A loving God wouldn't create people just to send them to Hell..unless some "higher, hidden purpose" is revealed. I can't think of anything that would justify such unjust cruelty.

1John2:2, is not explaining the intent of the atonement but is only repeating some basic Christian truths. In the early church, many Jews found it hard to believe that God would save the Gentiles. This verse addresses this problem, reminding us that the one who saves the Jews is the same one who saves the Gentiles. Jesus is the propitiation for both Jew and Gentile. The passage says nothing in favor of Him dying for every individual on earth.
The KJV, NIV, NASB, NRSV and the Greek clearly state otherwise.

Kevin J. Kirkham
Salt Lake City, UT

@Wastintime "So, Kevin J Kirkham, i guess Moses got it wrong with the 10 Commandments. They were new scripture and they were not sustained by common consent. What a curious system."

KJK Since there was no sustained/official scripture at the time, nor any knowledge of Common Consent, Moses couldn't like those principles unto himself. As the Gospel has been revealed, line upon line, precept upon precept, the way we do things changed. Today, per the D&C, everything is to be done by Common Consent. Moses didn't have the D&C. The prophet isn't the emperor. There are rules he must follow and if he doesn't, we must reject his actions. The prophets have been clear on that. Sorry

Filo Doughboy
Bakersfield, CA

If Land really used "language to communicate", he would have clarified the other 6 (Webster) definitions of a cult. His assertion of Mormonism simply being a "fourth Abrahamic religion" is obtuse and incorrect. Only two posts in 85 here are any more astute of the linguistic defintions.

As a 6th generation Mormon, born and raised for 35 years, I know my LDS heritage and doctrines- old and new. As a Born-Again Christian for the past 30, I know how deep the differences. Until 1890, LDS were "loud and proud" about our distinctiveness. Per many, that was our failing, as the saints did not move quietly into any eastern community. We even built our own beautiful Nauvoo so we could live our distinctive lifestyle openly. Pre-1890 LDS have more in common with the gay community in that respect.

Obviously convinced of the correctness of our new plural marriage revelation, we left it all behind, and Utah is what it is today because of the saint's commitment to their beliefs and leaders. But just establishing a community of faith does not rectify any group's doctrines with other religious tenets.

Salt Lake City, UT

"Religious people weren't the ones who tired to hound other people out of their jobs for supporting Proposition 8 in California. "

They're just the ones who fight non-discrimination ordinances so that it can still be legal to fire people if they're gay...

"What's offensive about his comment?"
"Homosexuality should be shunned at every corner known to man."

Speaking of things that are offensive...

@The Caravan Moves On
"Sure would be nice if non-LDS Christians accepted us as Christians lock, stock and barrel like we accept them as Christians."

Well... you're not fully accepting of other Christians either since you consider their baptisms to be lacking on some level. For what it's worth, even as an ex-mormon myself I consider the LDS church Christian and much like my United Methodist pastor (the church I grew up in before converting) once told me, I see no reason why being LDS would keep someone from heaven.

Cinci Man

The LGBT community wants freedom from speech by not allowing those opposed to their point of view the right to speak freely of behavior considered sinful. But they demand the right to speak intrusively to any member of my family, especially impressionable children, about how right LGBT behavior is while I'm tied and gagged. Yes, they have an agenda. And the political parties, and even members of the Supreme Court, are divided over this question. Liberals tend to side with granting rights to the LGBT, while at the same time, denying those same rights to those not in favor of that persuasion. I have to be ashamed that our court system is so divided and cannot see the slippery slope. Two things are coming that will further erode the family. Polygamy, and any-can-be-married-to-anybody-amy. Entire neighborhoods can all be married to each other. There is no argument used in favor of gay marriage that cannot be applied to such lunacy. Who is father and who is mother will not be defined for future generations. Father and Mother are words being legislated away. Where is my right?

layton, UT

RE:lds4gaymarriage, If Calvinism is true, most of humanity are destined to Hell.

“this is the highest degree of faith , to believe him merciful when he saves so few and damns so many.” Martin Luther,
Romans 9:16,18,20,21,23,27. Verse 16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.
18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’
21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?
23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory.
27 Isaiah cries out concerning Israel:“ Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea, only the Remnant will be saved.

Bakersfield, CA

Yes, there are loving and good people in every religious strata and non-religious ones, too.
Yes, Southern Baptists and Mormons work together on charity and disaster relief, just as do Catholic Charities, Muslim Relief, et al.

When are the LDS going to stop trying to equate good civil work and charity with having the same religious beliefs? They know it is not true, but they say it on these posts daily. It is unnerving to see such piety in front of the knowledge that they do not accept any other priesthood or ritual as having any eternal viability.

I grew up LDS, I taught it. I know there are mostly honest LDS. So stop equating your "good works" with your doctrines. Dr. Land knows better and should have explained the moniker of "cult" as it applies. There are the small, crazy ones ala Warren Jeffs; there are the large, scary ones, ala the Moonies. Islam started small, as did Christianity. Size has nothing to do with Biblical-believing churches. If the Nazis still ran Europe, and out-numbered everyone else, would their numbers mean they had the Truth?

Mormonism, JWitnesses, Moonies- all have another Jesus.

Kevin J. Kirkham
Salt Lake City, UT

Romans 9:16,18,20,21,23,27

God simply doesn't pick some for heaven/hell and neither group can change their fate. Acts 10:34,35 says that anyone who loves God and lives morally is acceptable to God. God wants all to be saved 1Tim.2:3-4,1Jn.2:2. There are verses about salvation given to those who "endure to the end" and others stating that some can sin so much that they can't be renewed unto repentance.

What do those verses mean? They could refer to our earthly circumstances rather than our eternal reward. God makes some rich, poor, bond, free, tall, short, maim, whole, etc... He does this to help us learn what we need to to return to Him. We may not understand why and some may complain/question like v20 states. Sure, there are some whose righteousness/valiance in the per-existence may warrant them going to heaven, but none sent here to Earth are predestined to Hell. A loving God would instead simply destroy the souls of the non-Elect. Making them suffer eternally in Hell benefits no one. Does it glorify God or increase our love? NO!

Swansea, 00

Aggressive secularism is occuring in many of the Western democracies. It became noticeable when the iron curtain came down. While the USSR was imprisoning people for their beliefs we saw the massive State interferance as evil (evil Empire etc). Now we see the State interfering with people right to exercise their beliefs as being the business of the State (quite a role reversal). Parents must have the right to bring up their children according to the dictates of their beliefs. The secularist is seeking to liken mankind to robots, deterministic machines which have no room for a heart, the tin man from the Wizard of Oz.

Los Angeles, CA

As long as he's willing to let me live my religion my way, we can be friends. All of my baptist friends turn nutty at some point, saying hurtful things about the Book of Mormon or Joseph Smith, but so far with this guy, so good.

Here, UT

"Let’s be very clear, the gay and lesbian and transgender folks don’t want to live and let live."
"... homosexual behavior is contrary to God’s will. "

Says those who are trying to legislate how the gays and lesbians can live.

Thankfully, the USA is not a theocracy.

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