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Comments about ‘Lawyers, judges debate 'under God' phrase in Pledge of Allegiance’

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Published: Wednesday, Sept. 4 2013 5:15 p.m. MDT

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my4boys
Murray, UT

Freedom in this great country was founded upon the belief in a higher being-"God". It's quite a remarkable thing to live where for the most part, we are safe to speak our minds, and leave our homes without much concern of being harmed. If we are more aware of how we treat our neighbors, and are thoughtful in our words and actions, I believe this type of conversation doesn't need to take place. We can be respectful of those few who wish to have this beautiful verbiage taken out of the Pledge, buy allowing their children to step out of the class without drawing attention to them as they do so. I would hope this is already taking place. There are other countries that don't have this beautiful privilege, so maybe one of those would be a better choice for a home.

Bubble
SLC, UT

@ my4boys: Please state where in the US Constitution there is any reference to a higher being who gave us our rights and freedoms.

As for the "privilege" of saying "under God" in school everyday - many theocracies have similar requirements of a daily acknowledgement of God - and those are some of the least free countries in the world.

How can you, with a straight face, claim freedom of speech and a privilege of worshipping God as you see fit and then follow it with the statement that if people want similar freedoms for themselves they should go to a different country?

Kralon
HUNTINGTON BEACH, CA

@bubble,

You are thinking of the Declaration of Independence - "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

TRUTH
Salt Lake City, UT

You just answered your own question Bubble? I wonder what God would say?

Honest Abe
Salt Lake City, UT

Massachusetts has its priorities and principles all backwards. Instead of creating laws that protect or strengthen communities and society. Attorneys and government at tax-payers expense are lauded for destroying them. As a past resident of Massachusetts I can attest that it is becoming less and less family value friendly.

Massachusetts should be looking at and debating ways to reduce its higher than average crime rate. In Boston, violent crime is twice the national average. Massachusetts courts ought to be looking at ways to reduce its higher than average crime rate There are so many critical areas that need attention and are neglected for the attention, or notion that someone's rights are violated with the mere mention of deity.

Serenity
Manti, UT

One anonymous couple is suing to have their civil rights protected? I strongly object. I feel my civil rights are being violated because I, and my family feel that the Pledge should stand as it is. I also feel that we are with the majority in the United States according to many poles taken. Since this is a Democratic society, the majority rules. So, why should the majority of the people be so very violated by One couple who decided that their rights were violated? What about the rights of the rest of us? I have my civil rights too. This whole thing is ludicrous. The fact that it made it to the Massachusetts supreme court is completely unfair. Who is protecting my civil rights? I feel I and a majority of the country are completely without representation and our rights are being very violated. Those children of the atheist couple do not have to accept the pledge and it is their parents rights to teach them that. If they can't teach their children what to believe, why should the rest of us suffer with our rights being seriously violated?

The Scientist
Provo, UT

All the defenses of keeping the "under God" reference in the Pledge only reinforce the argument of the atheist plaintiffs, you persist in telling those who do not believe in a god that they are at best second class citizens, or at worst are unworthy and unpatriotic and should leave - "There are other countries that don't have this beautiful privilege, so maybe one of those would be a better choice for a home."

Those are hostile sentiments that deny non-believing US citizens equal treatment, and it is directly tied to the divisive religious wording in the Pledge.

You prove the point! In spades!

As for the supposed role of a deity in the granting and preservation of rights, Bubble is correct. The Declaration is not the Supreme Law of the Land" and has no legal force as regards rights and liberties, as does the Constitution (and Bill of Rights).

The Declaration isn't law, nor has it ever been, it is what it purports to be, a declaration of intent to justify Americans declaring their independence from Great Britain.

Religionists need to cease and desist from hijacking this secular government and nation and its history.

Albert Maslar CPA (Retired)
Absecon, NJ

Better to be under God than under the boot to the throat by oppressive government.

Beverly
Eden, UT

The 9/11 terrorist firmly believed in God. Warren Jeffs, David Koresh, Jim Jones, etc., etc, all firmly believed in God. From leading people to kill themselves to treating women horribly, people use "god" to manipulate weak thinkers. America is outgrowing this nonsense, and hopefully, the U.S. Supreme Court will support the State of Massachusetts.

Springvillepoet
Springville, UT

People should do a little research.

The Pledge of Allegiance was written by Francis Bellamy, a Christian Socialist. It was written to run as a sales pitch in 1892 by Youth's Companion Magazine in conjunction to get schools to buy flags for every school room. Yes, our patriotic and sacred pledge is really a commercial written by a socialist to sell flags. It is quite possibly the most American thing we have going.

Having the word, "God" is of course, one of four changes to the pledge since its creation.

Brother Benjamin Franklin
Orem, UT

I am very saddened by those here who feel that uttering the words under God signifies something great.

To me it is tragic.

Why?

I do not feel innocent children should be indoctrinated with this.

The last thing their young minds need is to be filled with things that they can learn outside of school.

I have no objection to church and religion outside of school, government, and the workplace.

Build all the churches you like, worship as you see fit, and teach your children to be decent and God-fearing.

Just please respect my right not to believe in God, as I respect your right to worship freely.

I simply want to be treated the same for my beliefs that there is no God, just as someone else wants to be respected for their belief in God.

Is that too much to ask? I hope not.

Let us not bring our children into this fight. Just as we would make efforts to save a marriage where children are involved, let us make all efforts to save a civil fight in which our children have become the pawns.

Do not allow religious extremists to hijack the Pledge of Allegiance.

Gemini
Australia, 00

Sooo will this couple and others like them stop using currency? It states on the very monetary system in place "In God we Trust"! These minorities should stop wasting the time of the courts and just teach their children to abstain from the pledge if they so desire. Surely that can be worked out with consultation of their school principal?

I am so sick of the "minority" as "Serenity" said, ruling the majority in a "free country" like the U.S.!! Maybe every time someone appeals against references to God a counter appeal should be launched?! That would place the courts in gridlock but I bet God would win! Grow up people - there are far more important things to worry about than a an anonymous couple. They just want their 15 minutes of fame but not brave enough to use their real names. Oh, let me guess, because they don't want the back lash!

God is referenced all through this country's founding documents - if they don't like that why are they here? Check out somewhere else to live on earth where God is not apparently referenced in legal documentation!

Good Grief!!!!!

Grandma 20
Allen, TX

I am wondering how many believers and non-believers in God profane his name in vain when they become angry or use His name in every day conversation to express their feelings? He his our Creator and gave us agency to choose for ourselves. Anyone objecting to the words, "under God," has his or agency to skip over that part.

RanchHand
Huntsville, UT

Someday, the Christian god is going to be taught in the same manner as the Greek Gods, the Roman Gods, the Norse Gods, etc. As mythology.

When I recite the pledge of allegiance, I use the phrase "on nation under Odin".

Grandma 20
Allen, TX

Sorry for the typos. The second and third lines should read: "He IS our Creator and gave us agency to choose for ourselves. Anyone objecting to the words, "under God," has his or HER agency to skip over that part."

vdubbin'
Ogden, UT

@ Bubble: how can you, with a straight face, imply that we should enjoy freedom of speech but be unable to praise God on a daily basis? Unfortunately you seem to be laboring under the common misapprehension that doing away with God is your right, but that we, for some inexplicable reason, don't have the right to have him in our lives. I've never understood the liberal argument that "we have the right to x, your rights are not mutually compatible with our rights, and your rights are invalid". I wish I could understand. In any event, slowly but surely God will be removed from daily life, our ability to defend ourselves will be nullified, and our nation will look like Russia circa 1940. That's not hyperbole; that's a prediction based on historical evidence.
I wonder if the liberal, God-hating crowd will be happy when they get their way. I hope so, but I don't have high hopes for a happy ending.

gehelmke
Bastrop, TX

Being a senior citizen, I have to note that I have trouble remembering to say "under God" in the Pledge. You see, those words were added to the Pledge in 1954 after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, a Catholic organization....By 1954, I had completed my schooling and was serving the nation as a United States Marine. I had proudly said the pledge through years of schooling without the words "under God"...especially during WW II and Korea.
I still remember the mixed feelings I had about this addition when I first heard about it....Where I love my God, I saw the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America as just that....a pledge of allegiance to a flag.....I wondered what was the point in trying to make a prayer out of it?
Being a Marine at the time, I still pledged my allegiance to that flag....a flag which still flies proudly in my front yard, but I confided my praying to areas where I shared my God with nothing else....no flag....no currency....just Him.

Bubble
SLC, UT

@ vdubbin: Where, pray tell, did I state you do not have the right to utter whatever you would like? How does allowing these children not to have to say something infringe on your right to say it? Are public schools the only venue you have in which to offer your daily praise of God? And how is the Pledge of Allegiance praising God anyway - especially when those who are so anxious to keep God in it insist it is the lower-case historical/political figure being referred to and not the Divine Being?

Craig Clark
Boulder, CO

Group recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance in the classroom is an American tradition that became controversial when Congress amended the Pledge by inserting the phrase “under God” between the word indivisible and the phrase “with liberty and justice for all.”

In hindsight, we can now see what a huge mistake it was to tamper with the wording. There was nothing wrong with the Pledge as it was and the 1954 change was not an improvement. Now we find ourselves wondering whether we can fix it or whether the time has come for us to let go of a proud American tradition that we seem to want to hang on to.

Craig Clark
Boulder, CO

CORRECTION

I misstated on my previous post. The phrase "under God" was inserted between the phrase "one nation" and the word indivisible. Sorry for gaffe.

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