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Comments about ‘Families of those killed by Utah cops rally against police militarization’

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Published: Thursday, Aug. 29 2013 11:00 p.m. MDT

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Nosea
Forest Grove, OR

Craig Clark:

It is not like they say, and I used to believe, "a few bad apples," meaning a few police behaving badly. At this point it looks like the whole bushel of apples has gone bad. Just look at the ratio of civilians to police officers killed, and you will see that it is overwhelming civilians that are being killed in police to civilian encounters, and often over trifling matters that would come nowhere near a death sentence in a court of law. That strongly suggests something has gone really awry with law enforcement, and just maybe we have turned into a de facto police state -- also witness TSA at work.

Let's be reasonable
Baghdad, 00

The one thing that I did not see on this comment board was a discussion behind some of the reasoning for the added body armor and increase in firepower of some parts of most police departments. The criminal is increasing his firepower and his tactics. If a department does a strategic analysis, they see it behooves them to have SOMEONE on their team that can stand up to the new risks in police work that have escalated in the last 40 years. No one does traffic stops with grenade launchers or "surrounds" the vehicle in a "pincer" attack. Of the instances in Utah that there have been deaths at the hands of police officers in my recollections of the last several years, the deaths were most usually by officers in non-SWAT, non "military-style" equipment. The Ogden warrant served was more than above the law. they had a warrant, they served it, he opened fire on them wounding and killing. He chose to end his life. That the police react to a development they do not control is not their fault. Ask the criminals to play nice and the cops will too. I promise.

Archie1954
Vancouver, BC

Americans are truly ignorant if they thought for one second that their nation could brutalise the rest of the world and they could escape their own brutalisation at home. It doesn't work that way. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Americans are now paying for not caring what horrors their country visited on poor peoples of the third world!

JBT
Provo, UT

WOW... Very Scary times we live in!! We as a society need to wake up and recognize that there are poisonous groups of people that are attempting to destroy our freedoms & our liberties!; people that are actively trying to give power back to the criminals. People that are preaching the idea that criminals shouldn't be held accountable, and that cops should be held accountable for trying to stop crime.. Poisonous People that preach crazy ideas that cops should lay down their weapons and allow criminals to move about freely and prey on the weak. Scary people who believe its OKAY for a cop to kill a person to save another persons life, but that it's NOT okay for a cop to save his own life... Yes, scary indeed.
You can certainly look at these so-called 'victims of police brutality' as victims. But for me, I see them for what they Really are/were, Criminals!
Go back and read oldschooler's comment. It really is that simple! and had these so-called 'Victims' followed olschoolers advice, they'd still be alive!

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: "We need to resist a culture of militarism."

Tell that to bad guys.

Because of the murder of cops, like those during the marijuana-grow raid in Odgen, or the traffic stop in Millard County, police can no longer maintain a Mayberry-like profile in modern America.

This is due primarily to the moral rot initiated by the liberal sex-drugs-rock'n roll culture that controls the American media. That's why its so comical that it's that same diseased culture that is currently protesting the very condition it created.

Cops would love to return to Mayberry days, but that can't happen until respect for the rule of law is re-enshrined as an important American value.

Congress and the White House would be a great place to start, but that seems unlikely, considering all the pro-lawbreaker positions advocated by the liberals currently in power.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Today's local police force is more well-armed and more lethal than Hitler's domestic police - the Gestapo - ever was.

JBT
Provo, UT

@ Nosea
You described this statement as a problem "Just look at the ratio of civilians to police officers killed, and you will see that it is overwhelming civilians that are being killed in police to civilian encounters.."
First, I would hope you're not suggesting the ratio should be more even..?? That would be Very scary..
Second, This is actually a GREAT thing!! This means Law Enforcement training is paying off! This means cops are learning to defend themselves better against criminals! I for one would love to see a day where there were ZERO police officer fatalities. Sounds like Law Enforcement is moving in the right direction!

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

BTW - One other comment.

It goes both ways --

As more and more citizens hate and see their Government as the enemy,
the Government will assume more and more citizens as potential "perps".

Craig Clark
Boulder, CO

Today's local police force is more well-armed and more lethal than Hitler's domestic police - the Gestapo - ever was.
______________________________

They'd better be. The days of the standard issue sidearm for police use was the .38 caliber six-shot revolver came to end when the firepower out on the street had them outgunned.

oldschooler
USA, TX

Dear Beverly, for the most part the fatalities involving law enforcement officers could have been prevented if the individual obeys the law and like I said before carry out officer's instructions. I used to be in law enforcement and never had a problem with anyone following instrucctions, only once and due to attempting to hurt me, otherwise I would have not hit tis individual. With very few exemptions most officer do their job in a very clear manner: "firm and fair", as trained. Most of the victims resisted in a way either physically or verbally. There was a case where this girl tried to run over the detectives, a car is consider a weapon, trained officers have to use deadly force when their life is in danger, is part of the training, if you think too long you are dead, abd what about your family? is that simple.

Cleetorn
Fuaamotu, Tonga

EVERY group and/or association has some members who live by the virtues they extol and a fringe who use the cover of the organization to subvert those ideals and then claim “authority” to do so based on their professed credo. There are good cops and bad ones. There are good Jews, Catholics, Mormons, Protestants, Atheists and there are bad ones. There are good politicians, school teachers, dentists, accountants and bad ones. There are good LGBT’s and “straights” and bad ones.

There is no escaping this fact. While the world is made up of all of them, the ones who are “good” go on with their daily lives unheralded, unsung and unnoticed. It’s the “fringe” who makes the headlines and draws our attention, condemnation and dirty looks. To categorize any of these solely by their fringe does more than a disservice to those who uphold their standards.
(more . . .)

Cleetorn
Fuaamotu, Tonga

(cont’d)
I have been in Law Enforcement for over 30 years. I have never shot anyone though I have been shot at – and hit. My family is acutely aware of the definite possibility that I may come home at the end of my shift injured or not at all. I’m willing to do this for you as I care and want to think that what I do in my profession makes a positive difference. I will continue to protect you from an element that you have virtually no concept of. Most of my cohorts are of the same ilk. Some – the fringe – are not and need to be weeded out.

But those few are NOT most of us. Were that not so, the Willard case never would have seen the light of day. The few who infiltrate any group to sensationalize and defame it are not in the mainstream. But we as a society focus on the miscreants. It’s our way. It’s not the police who have made us afraid. It is us preying on each other in more powerful and sophisticated ways that have necessitated a stronger response.

danr
San Bernardino, CA

What do we expect? The NRA and Utah's gun fanatics have made it so easy to get any kind of firearm, that the police now have to assume everyone is armed.

So much for the safe society the NRA claimed we'd have with everyone running around armed to the teeth.

Crime has been trending down for the past coupe of decades, but the gun fringe wants everyone to think it's more dangerous now. Fear and ignorance, fear and ignorance...

donahoe
NSL, UT

About a decade ago, police raided a home in the town adjacent to the university of Maryland. They shot the dog and harassed the residents. It was the mayor's home. Woops.

Bob A. Bohey
Marlborough, MA

The U.S.A does seem to becoming Orwellian in nature. It also appears that this is quite intentional on the part of the ultra wealthy.

Blunderbuss
Silver City, NM

The militarization of police has become epidemic across the nation. The army-type tactics, and the heavy equipment sported by these men is more akin to the paramilitary Schutzstafeln than it is to those who (supposedly) are there to "Protect and Serve." Ironically, the Supreme Court found that police have no real obligation to "Protect" (2005 ruling by justices Scalia, Bader-Ginsburg, and Stevens). This decision overturned a Colorado appellate court ruling, which had ruled previously that officers who had failed in their "duty to protect" had failed to do so, leading to the deaths of three children who were at the center of a custody dispute in 1999. The father of the three children killed his daughters outside a police station in Castle Rock, CO. It was only at this point that police took any kind of action whatsoever. The Supreme Court ruling means that police have gotten a "get out of jail free" card whenever they choose doughnuts over responding to a call.

Contrariusester
mid-state, TN

@Cleetorn --

"It's not the police who have made us afraid..."

Violent crime rates in the US have been falling for decades. Yet all of a sudden our police decide that they absolutely must have military weaponry and that they must use stormtrooper tactics?

One of my best friends from high school ended up spending years in prison because her *boyfriend* -- not she herself -- killed her baby. The tactics used by those detectives in their investigation, though nonviolent, were nonetheless despicable. Needless to say, I was not impressed.

No, not all police are bad people -- but the police culture and mindset appear to be getting worse and worse with time.

@oldschooler --

This past July, a 60 year old unarmed man in Florida was shot at 13 times by two officers. His "crime" was that he was standing in his own driveway, looking for his own cigarettes in his own car. When the officers shouted at him, he straightened up and turned around to see what was going on. Instead of asking him what he was doing, they simply opened fire.

Luckily, they were terrible shots. They "only" hit him twice.

What "law" was he breaking?

NeilT
Clearfield, UT

Jay Tee Thanks for the insult. I have worked in Law Enforcement, have BS degree from Weber State and a year of grad school. Do you have any idea what is required to work in law enforcement? The packet for the background check is several is several inches thick. You are polygraphed, interviewed and re-interviewed. To imply that police officers are low functioning or low intelligence is just plain wrong.

A few years ago in Hollywood a bank robbery made national headlines. The perpetrators had body armor and armor piercing bullets. The cops were powerless to stop them. The militarization of law enforcement is in response to the dangers presented by violent gangs, and drug dealers. Look at what is happening in Mexico. Crime and violence are rampant and the authorities are powerless.

Contrariusester
mid-state, TN

@NeilT --

"The militarization of law enforcement is in response to the dangers presented by violent gangs, and drug dealers. "

In reality, violent crime rates in this country have been dropping for decades. We shouldn't militarize an entire country's police forces because of one bank robbery.

The more police forces militarize, the more we citizens will see police as "the enemy". And that's a LOUSY way to "serve and protect". Police need to work WITH the citizens -- not act as though they're an occupying force in a hostile territory.

Gregg Weber
SEATTLE, WA

IMHO there are 2 things here:
The first is overly agressive and cowardly cops. By that I mean those that use force and intimidation to get what they want. This might be OK in some incidents but can be abused by those who feel they have absolute power.
Cowardly means those who, with great padding and such are still afraid of getting hurt. They would rather shoot a person or dog than get injured (with little or no chance of being killed themselves). They are placeing a value on themselves unlike the rescuer who does everything possible to save someone. Think of the Congressional Metal of Honor.

and

more well armed cops.
Three enemies:

criminals,

people by tyrants,
(If some future Civil War ocures there will be a mixture of people on both sides, military, police, civilians, thugs and criminals. They will need equipment and training (if they are on the "right" side).)

tyrants by people. However if they are on the tyrant's side then they must not be too well equipted.

There are good cops and bad cops as with all people. We must be sure that they are indeed our "finest".

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