Maybe the horses enjoy having something productive to do (pulling carriages)
compared to other people that come to mind.
I do not understand how removing carriage horses will prevent them from dying.
IF the object is to not allow horses to die on the street, are not humans
equally important? Should we remove every human from the streets? Rest in peace
Jerry. Thank you for your service.
Ban cars, ban bikes, ban planes, ban mountains, ban ....oh wait, hold on...ban
Most of us believe in freedom and live and let live.Why can't some
people just go away and leave the rest of us alone?Horses are
expensive. Is a business really going to put that investment at risk?Not a chance.
PETA doesn't want any interaction between humans and animals. If they had
their way we wouldn't have pet dogs, cats, etc. I am all for
insuring that the horses are well cared for and that measures are taken to avoid
injuries to the animals. But to ban the horses from serving downtown from one
incident is over-reacting.
Horse health is best.Horse is healthier when working, instead of sitting
around all day looking pretty.Therefore, a working horse is a
healthier horse.The best way to care for animals isn't to
protest other people who won't change their mind, nor pass laws to force
people who won't be forced. The best way to care for animals isn't
talking about how to care for animals.The best way to care for
animals... is to care for animals. If your priority is caring for animals, buy
more animals and care for them. Any more or less than that isn't really
caring for animals, but investing your time in something else.
I disagree with Mr. Garrott's opinion that it is a problem that they
can't suspend Carriage for Hire's license until they have evidence of
not complying with ordinances. My question for him is: were you able to suspend
or yank his license immediately only to later find out that there were no
violations, would you compensate Carriage for Hire for the lost revenue for the
time frame their license is suspended?
It would be nice if these PETA people put as much effort into Human Rights as
they do animal rights.That being said, when temperatures are 100, it
is even hotter on paved streets. Maybe it is time to regulate conditions of
which these animals work in.
A horse is a working animal. A carriage ride in SLC is a delightful and
romantic event - especially on a crisp autumn night. Yes please
treat the animal correctly but stop imposing your view of the universe on the
rest of us. If you really think this is an issue - buy up all the carriages and
horses and either run it the way you think it should be run or close it down.
You take the financial loss. In other words put up or shut up.We
have way to many laws - way too many. We certainly do not need one more banning
the last link to a horse drawn past. Besides, I figured you nice
folks liked the idea of horses, no gas engines, nor CO2 and not traffic.
Up until just over 100 years ago, our ancestors relied upon horse-drawn
carriages and horses in general for transportation. Along comes the iron horse
and the horseless carriage and the poor old horse is now out to pasture and has
lost it's high calling in life.Give horses back their dignity.
Let's do away with the cars and the bars and the wars!
Seems some people have entirely too much spare time on their hands. The poor
horse died, that is sad. Their answer? Lets all protest. Amazing.
80 people with nothing better to do with their time. A horse died. Big
deal.How about protesting the killing of the WW2 veteran in the
parking lot by two street thugs?How about protesting healthcare
reform which is bankrupting our country and ruining healthcare?I
should have gone downtown yesterday and protested silly protesters....wait....I
had to work.
"Until we can prove that they have violated part of our ordinance, we
can't yank or even suspend their permits," he said. "That's a
problem, and that needs to change."He means the Salt Lake City
council must follow the law and can't yank a business permit on a whim? Oh
the horror. Surely it would much better if all businesses were at the whim of
politicians responding to the protest du jour. (That is sarcasm for
those who are sarcasm impaired)
From the uproar and protests, one would think that horses were dropping like
flies on the streets of Salt Lake City. If we're to be consistent, we need
to also call for a ban on motor vehicles in SLC the next time a pedestrian is
hit by a car and ban trains as soon as someone wanders on the tracks and is hit
by one. After all, both of those happen with far more frequency than the death
of a horse whose demise might just as well have happened on a farm or ranch (the
place where most horses with colic meet their maker). Before backing
PETA, keep in mind that they're the radical group that would ban you from
eating meat or owning pets. Be wary of affiliating with them.
The USA is on the verge of being sucked into another war in the middle east and
all that is on these peoples minds is Jerry?I suspect that since
Jerry was part of someone's business, he was probably cared for very well.
Certainly he may have preferred a life in the wild, 20 years ago, but after so
many years of pulling a cart he would not know how to live any other way. There
is a saying about "Beating a dead horse" that comes to mind but is
probably inappropriate to use in this comment (Out of respect for Jerry. But
some how I do not think he would mind.). Maybe Jerry went out of this world
doing what he loved to do. Would that we all could spend our last day doing
what we love to do.Anyway, people if you want to carry a sign,
protest what is going on in Syria. Or, do we feel that that situation is
hopeless and there is nothing that we can do about it, and protesting a dead
horse is maybe the only thing we can influence some change.
I've owned horses for 40+ years. I've never seen a horse
"colic" in the manner that Jerry did. Colicy horses get up and down,
kick at their stomachs, etc. they don't just collapse and never get up
again as a first symptom. His actions, to me, were not of colic but of some
other illness, and it needs to be investigated.Should animals die
needlessly and wastefully JUST so someone can profit from them? A Horses legs
were not designed to take the stress of walking on hard asphalt or cement
surfaces for extended periods of time. They are a herd animal, where they feel
safest with other like kind around when stressed by noise, etc. What has
happened to society, where the feelings and well being of others (including
animals) no longer matter. Where it seems anything goes for personal gain.But lets look at this from a human point of view - we don't see humans
out in 90+ degree heat with the unrelenting pollution of SLC pulling carts for 8
hours at a time with no choice in the matter.
I will not condemn these people because they are only showing compassion for one
of God's creatures. That is not a bad character trait.
dustywe don't see horses riding humans in any degree weather. your
argument is odd
Meanwhile, the butchering goes on in the Middle East.
As for working in the heat - I spent most of my youth on a construction site in
unbelievable heat. I carried bricks, wheelbarrows, dug ditches and broke
concrete with a sledge hammer. I remember many days soaring into the
110's. My boss would bark at us when we slowed down and used to tell me
that I should thank him for each bead of sweat that fell off my nose and made me
a man. I, like the horse, worked because I had to (I had no choice
either). I had rent to pay and was trying to go to school.Oh and as
for the pollution - I was working in San Bernardino CA, that's pollution.
I did this for years before I finally graduated school. And while I moved on -
trust me - there are countless people who still make a living working in the hot
sun. Maybe you ought to focus your protests on their jobs. But I
am guessing that one who complains about the horse working in the heat has
probably spent his or her life in the cool air conditioned rooms of a school or
office, not on a construction site.
SME; I appreciate your sarcasm, and I find the whole premise terrifying. If the
city can yank a business liscense because of a complaint by a citizen with no
review whether any codes or ordinances have been violated, makes me shudder.
thank you for pointing this outone other thing, next to this article
was an advertisement for insurance for horse colic, stating that possibly
500,000 horses or more this year could suffer from colic. sounds like it is an
epidemic and we should be investing billions of dollars in research to alleviate
that problem. dustmagnet; if you think that the cause of death
needs to be investigated beyond what it has been, perhaps you'd be willing
to pay for the necropsy.
Garrott says it's a problem that the city is constrained by the law in
whether to suspend a license. That's not a bug; it's a feature.Licenses issued by the state instead of the city (e.g. a
physician's license) allow for suspension if the licensee is engaged in
"communication which is false, misleading, deceptive, or fraudulent"
(Utah Code 58-1-501.2(h)), so the problem is really that the city's
ordinance doesn't include a similar provision, not the fact that the city
needs to follow its own rules.
Perhaps working conditions for these animals should be looked in to. But to
close down an entire institution is a bit extreme. These horses actually enjoy
being active. The one person commenting about such activists spending their
lives in air conditioned rooms was probably pretty accurate in their assessment.
A couple of years ago, a well known celebrity purchased thousands
of turkeys bound for the supermarkets and put them on a ranch to live out their
lives. This person got a lot of cheers from well meaning people. Problem is,
turkeys that are raised and butchered for Thanksgiving are engineered. They
gain weight rapidly and will do so until, in less than a year, grow so large
they crush their own legs -- so much for a nice retirement at a turkey
refuge.Most of us; including animals, were intended to do more than
surf the internet and argue about the conditions of some while ignoring the
tragedies faced by others. There is nothing wrong with work. Just make sure it
is productive and not destructive.
Hot places where horses have traditionally been used:EgyptArabiaBurmaMexicoAustraliaCloser to home:TucsonPhoenixTexasFloridaNew MexicoNevadaSt. GeorgeHard Streets?Like cobblestones?
When Thumper was talking to Bambi and Bambi said something that made Thumper
laugh, that really cracked me up. That Thumper has quite the sense of humor. Oh
wait! That's just a Disney cartoon isn't it! I keep forgetting that
the animals really don't talk to each other.It's time boys
and girls to step back into real life. Had Jerry been roaming around 150 years
ago, he would have been struggling to pull a plow, or a big, heavy wagon loaded
with hay or wood or rock or whatever else his owner had in mind for him that
day. I suspect pulling a carriage along nicely paved, smooth streets beats the
heck out of what his ancestors before him had to deal with.Why not
grow up and find something worth whining about. Our kids are going to inherit a
mess and complaining about the death of a horse, while tragic and I've
cried myself to sleep ever since I heard about it, is a remarkable waste of
I hope someone is investigating the threats and bullying tactics that these Peta
people are doing to the business owner. Peta is just another side of the radical
environmentalist coin. They don't like that animals emit CO2 just like
people do. While purporting to be about caring for animals, it is a fact that
they euthanize animals at their 'care centers' at an alarming rate.
They lobby for and push for more and more regulations for pet owners and
businesses that use animals in their operation. It's not about the horses,
it's about control and destroying this man's business.
Like many have said, I am all for treating animals with respect, but seriously!
When every child has a decent chance in life, with adequate food and shelter,
then I will take up the cause of the horses/dogs/whatever.
A vigil for a horse? How stupid can it get? Mind your own business.
Spend that excess energy on making life better for humans not making more
I don't know much about this issue, but if it is cruel or harmful to the
horses, then I think the carriages should be banned.
The sad truth is that the horses' choice isn't between pulling
carriages and living an idyllic life grazing in a pasture. The real choice is
between pulling a carriage or being slaughtered and eaten by cultures like the
French, who consider horsemeat a delicacy. With the present financial troubles,
horse rescues are overwhelmed and unable to help. Domestic horses are having
their shoes pulled and being dumped on the desert with the mustangs, where
domestic horses are unlikely to survive. Look on Craigslist. People are giving
them away, begging. The Federal Government, against the wishes of
the People and in response to the many horses being abandoned by jobless owners,
is making horse slaughter in the US again legal. So that is these animals fate,
realistically. Is pulling a carriage preferable? Well, if you were unemployed
and there were no charity available, would you starve jobless or would you flip
burgers? I suspect the horses would happily flip burgers- pull a carriage. Jerry looked like he was a proper weight, but horses keel over of the
same ailments that fell humans midstride. It's sad, but it doesn't
mean he wasn't well cared for or loved.
Hmm, Lets see. Ban horses from SLC streets because one died there in lets see
how many years of having the horses on the streets maybe 30 years. Well, now
Peta and Amy how about picketing horse racing because of the recent death of a
horse in a race. Come on Peta and Amy stand up for those poor horses. Here is my
name for Peta: people exposing there arrogance (childish arrogance at that).
The loss of a horse, working or for pleasure, is sad for the owner. I have
never met a horse owner, who uses them regularly, to mistreat their horse. Most
stay up all night working with a sick horse.I don't know the
carriage owners, but I am sure they love their horses and take care of them.
This is strange, when was the last time a horse died from downtown slc? Jerry
was the first but it wasn't from downtown. He had some health issue non
related to work at downtown. Give Hires some slack and go away. Let Hires
continue with his buisness at downtown. Horses like to do stuff rather than
sitting behind the fence.
A horse dies, very sad, but where is the proof that this animal or any of the
other horses are being mistreated? These people will use any excuse to express
their liberal out of touch views.
Have carriages pulled by two horses instead of one horse.
At a time when we wish remove motor vehicles from our streets and encourage the
use of alternative transportation, it seems odd to ban horse carriages from the
Two things:1. Those who talk about "animal rights" are
devaluing human rights?2. If Jerry hadn't been pulling a
carriage, what would he have been doing? Horses are domestic animals.
Oh that poor horse. Too bad he didn't die in his stable then this huge
carnival would not be taking place. But one dead horse does not constitute
animal abuse. Nor does it give the right for those animal rights activists to
harass a perfectly good business, so much so that they want to put it out of
business. They are being ridiculous. I hope that they yell "wolf" once
too often and people will start to ignore them. Those horses look healthy and
well-taken care of. It should be illegal to put such a stress on the owners.
They not only lost a huge asset and a beautiful animal, but they have to put up
with the garbage those animal activists are dishing out. This is "much ado
On my farm growing up, animals not used for work were for eating. Should we just
let the domestic animals go wild?
My mailman walks everywhere in the heat carrying heavy packages. We should free
It is very sad when an animal dies from exhaustion and I'm sorry that this
horse did. I wonder if the protesters' compassion extends to other
unnecessary deaths, such as aborted fetuses?
These horses have something these protestors would never consider.....A JOB!
The protesters need a song, I suggest they watch Parks and Recreation, and maybe
adapt the song for "Little Sebastian".
Curious if PETA mentioned that they euthanize more animals every year, than any
other organization in the US. Doubt it.
Once again the Peta people are being silly and doing a terrific job of providing
comedic relief for my hectic day.Inhumane for a horse to pull a
carriage? Soon they will be screaming that I make my dog bury his own bones.
Walter Gunn, a neighbor of Jerry's owners, said, "“They care very
much for their animals, and the animals are work horses. I can't believe
that the animals aren't happy working most of the time.” What do you
mean, they are "work horses"? You mean they are animals who have been
forced to work to make a buck for humans, that is all. Horses are not "work
horses" any more than dogs are "work dogs" or we are "work
people". They have their own lives and friends and interests and VALUE,
quite independent of what some person decided to squeeze out of them for selfish
purposes. Carriage horses aren't necessary. People can walk, bike, take
public transport, or drive. There is no compassionate reason for any animal to
live a crappy life of hard, hot work that THEY DID NOT CHOOSE just so tourists
can sit in a stupid carriage.