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Brad Rock: Another down year would put Kyle Whittingham near the flame

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  • WON84 PLANO, TX
    Aug. 29, 2013 10:14 a.m.

    "Out of State Utah fan

    Alpharetta, GA

    @ WON84 : Greetings to TX! Love that area. Big Dallas Stars fan. I love reading these comment boards but had to call out Duckhunter's opinion that in STATE fans know their rival's team better than a fan living out of state.

    You are correct that many of the earliest posts on articles are from rival fans - both sides are equal in the smack talk. Look, folks - neither team has proven themselves this year and living in SEC country, both teams are hardly acknowledged down this way. Except some do remember that Utah beat Alabama one year and that BYU beat GA tech and the GA tech fans want that corrected!

    Utah fan through and through. Utah football has greater potential and the better opportunity to get where it wants to be. Kyle Wittingham has a few years to go before a losing season does him in."

    Out of State, I worked off of Haynes Bridge Road a few years ago. Small world!

    Anyways, agreed with most of what you wrote. Also, hope they give Whittingham that time. He'll get it done.

  • The Solution Las Cruces, NM
    Aug. 29, 2013 9:50 a.m.

    Timing is everything... A few years ago, if the Utes had been invited to the PAC, they would have done very well, competing with USC for the championship on a regular basis.

    Call me delusional if you want to, but look at 2007, 2008, and 2009. In 2009, I the MWC was better than the PAC. Don't believe me, look it up. 2007 and 2008 were good years too, and TCU, BYU, and UU could compete with anybody.

    PAC teams have resurged recently, probably due in part to sanctions on USC, allowing more evenly distributed recruiting throughout the league. Utah has two bad seasons, but they have had close games, which indicates that it is only a matter of time before they turn the corner. It's not just about recruiting either--learning your opponents style and nuances is just as important. Utah will be fine, and this might be the year that Chis B finally makes a good prediction.

    The same things can be said about my Cougs, who were in every game last year, and will probably be just fine this year.

  • CO Ute PARKER, CO
    Aug. 28, 2013 2:29 p.m.

    @veritas -

    The reason I am looking forward to a break in the Holy War game is simple. I'm tired of the comments from a number of supposed or actual Y fans on these boards. I'm also thinking that many of the Y fans feel the same about comments on their articles.

    Given the other posts that agree with my comments and the number of likes, I think my sentiment is shared by many others.

  • CO Ute PARKER, CO
    Aug. 28, 2013 2:27 p.m.

    @duckhunter - while the DN won't allow comments that attack posters, they don't have any ban on comments that don't follow the post. You insinuate I think my opinion is more important than other. Suggest you read the actual post before making false comments. Here is the exact quote:

    your comments are irrelevant to real Utah fans; just as you don't care what we think about your coach

    Second my post was also very clear in that it was to 3 or 4 poster above that made specific comments, not to all BYU fans. I'd ask that you actually look at the real text before making another false accusation.

  • Rational Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 28, 2013 7:10 a.m.

    Azute1

    SOS is only relevant when you WIN!

  • BleedCougarBlue Enid, OK
    Aug. 27, 2013 5:57 p.m.

    Article quote: "Whittingham, whose conference record since entering the Pac-12 is 7-11, 13-12 overall. This from a program that won two BCS bowls in five years. Since then the Utes have been trending down. Injuries have played a big part, but so has coordinator turnover and offensive production."

    The Utes trending down?

    True, but don't tell Ute fans that. They don't deal well with reality....

    GO COUGARS!

  • jdub1942 PROVO, UT
    Aug. 27, 2013 2:12 p.m.

    The ole Y fan adage: If you cant beat 'em, find someone else who has and bring that up.

  • Chris B. 4 Prez! Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 27, 2013 1:51 p.m.

    @TheSportsAuthority

    2011: BYU ugly losses: none (ugly loss meaning, to a team with a losing record)

    2011 BYU performance at home against the Utes: uglier than TDS 2009 home embarrassment against Florida State! GO UTES

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    Aug. 27, 2013 1:33 p.m.

    TheSportsAuthority

    "AZUTE1

    What you seem to be struggling with is this: Despite your SOS hyperbole, BYU still finished with a better record and higher ranking in both the national polls and in Sagarin in 2011."

    Only inside of the bubble is SOS irrelevant. Everywhere else, it's 100% relevant.

    "Bottom line: Utah's biggest win (BYU) was offset by two ugly losses to losing teams, one at home to one of the worst teams in the country"

    Bottom-Line--

    No matter how much you and your fellow byu fans attempt to spin it, what happened against an ultra-talented/under-performing ASU in '11, a team which would've equally trounced byu and with DII Hays making his very 1st start ever in a game which was significantly closer than the final score would otherwise indicate, and against CU in '11, has zero to do with the fact that not only did The U brutally annihilate byu on their homefield, 54-10, The U also played against a SOS ranked 41 spots higher.

    Spin it anyway you wish, but the fact remains, The U straight owns byu, period, end-of-story. Therefore, The U is significantly better than byu.

  • wyoming cougar Green River, WY
    Aug. 27, 2013 10:44 a.m.

    re:
    SoonerUte
    Salt Lake City, UT
    "Utah has never had three consecutive losing conference seasons."
    Yes, and the level of competition in the PAC12 is just like the Mountain West.

    National press writers predicted it would take 5 years for the Utah and TCU programs to catch up to their BCS leagues. Shouldn't coach Whitt be given those 5 years? Hate to see him run off early because of the impatience of a local writer.

    10:38 a.m. Aug. 25, 2013

    Really- it sure hasn't seemed to take TCU 5 years to catch up as they're predicted to finish 2nd this year in the big 12 and contend for their conference championship. I'm not sure how you bring TCU into the conversation- they seem very well suited for the jump they made. Remind me again, what your excuse is?

  • TheSportsAuthority Arlington, VA
    Aug. 27, 2013 9:50 a.m.

    AZUTE1

    What you seem to be struggling with is this: Despite your SOS hyperbole, BYU still finished with a better record and higher ranking in both the national polls and in Sagarin in 2011.

    2011
    BYU(10-3) #25 Coaches, #26 AP, #34 Sagarin, #90 SOS
    Quality wins: Utah State(7-6) 27-24, Tulsa(8-5) 24-21 (bowl win versus #35 Sagarin)
    Losses to quality teams: Utah(8-5) 10-54, @Texas(8-5) 16-17, @TCU(11-2) 28-38
    Ugly losses: none

    Utah(8-5) no votes in either poll, #39 Sagarin, #49 SOS
    Quality wins: BYU(10-3) 54-10, Ga Tech(8-5) 30-27 OT (bowl win versus #56 Sagarin)
    Losses to quality teams: USC(10-2) 23-14, Washington(7-6) 14-31, California(7-6) 10-34
    Ugly losses: Arizona State(6-7) 14-35, Colorado(3-10) 14-17

    BYU had 2 quality wins, 3 quality losses, no ugly losses
    Utah had 2 quality wins, 3 quality losses, 2 ugly losses

    Bottom line: Utah's biggest win (BYU) was offset by two ugly losses to losing teams, one at home to one of the worst teams in the country

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    Aug. 27, 2013 9:14 a.m.

    upinthenight

    Regardless of how many times Utah fans spam their conference affliation nonsense, a conference invitation is NOT an athletic accomplishment.

    Down in the dumps Colorado was invited before U, and the invites of Maryland and Rutgers to the B1G is proof enough that conference expansion is completely market driven and has nothing to do with actual on field football accomplishments.

    Utah being invited to the PAC instead of BYU is proof that "culture" and "academics" were far more important to the PAC than athletic excellence.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    Aug. 27, 2013 3:47 a.m.

    thesportsauthority--

    "The difference in 2012 SOS between BYU(63) and Utah(41) was puny in comparison to the difference in final ranking for BYU(26) and Utah(61)."

    An enormous difference, particularly when considering byu only won 2 more games during the regular season than The U did. Not to mention, yet another loss to Mighty Big Brother, 24-21.

    BTW, I noticed you conveniently evaded me on the respective '11 final SOS rankings, in addition to the '11 score, 54-10 in provo.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    Aug. 26, 2013 10:39 p.m.

    TheSportsAuthority
    Arlington, VA
    AZUTE1

    It's cute how Utah fans use BYU as their measuring stick for success, while BYU fans use national rankings as their measuring stick.

    btw, SOS and record both factor into final rankings, a little fact that Ute fans conveniently choose to ignore.

    The difference in 2012 SOS between BYU(63) and Utah(41) was puny in comparison to the difference in final ranking for BYU(26) and Utah(61).

    ________

    Why would the Utes aspire to follow BYUs goal of prearranged lame bowl agreements, and feel good stories for being in bottom end of the Top 25? Nothing cute about that.

  • BigCougar Bountiful, UT
    Aug. 26, 2013 9:33 p.m.

    Uteology said:
    "I think KW has two more years. His first PAC-12 class graduates next year. If the program still can't compete in the PAC-12 then look for KW to be fired.

    Look for BYU to make a 2nd offer if he's fired from Utah."

    Agree and partially agree. If Kwhitt is able to coach his team to 5 wins on that schedule he did probably one of his better coaching jobs but with people mad they finished in the basement again and no bowl game it won't matter to them.

    Worst case scenario Utah could lose as many as 10 games (wins vs Weber St and split with Colo/WSU). That would get him fired for sure but I think Kwhitt will find a way to coax them to 4 for sure and maybe 5. That will be good enough to keep his job one last year but it will only put off his inevitable firing after a 4th straight losing season in 2014.

    On the 2nd part, when he gets fired he just might get an offer from BYU.....to be the new Linebacker coach when Tidwell retires.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Aug. 26, 2013 7:42 p.m.

    It's definately a pivotal year for whittlingham. It's nice to see the usual band of haters on here hating. What a sad existence it must be to troll Utah articles and spew hate. What a truly pathetic M.O.

  • TheSportsAuthority Arlington, VA
    Aug. 26, 2013 7:27 p.m.

    AZUTE1

    It's cute how Utah fans use BYU as their measuring stick for success, while BYU fans use national rankings as their measuring stick.

    btw, SOS and record both factor into final rankings, a little fact that Ute fans conveniently choose to ignore.

    The difference in 2012 SOS between BYU(63) and Utah(41) was puny in comparison to the difference in final ranking for BYU(26) and Utah(61).

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    Aug. 26, 2013 3:53 p.m.

    mussingaround--

    "What's utterly meaningless is the incessant obsession of the Ute fanbase trying to claim that a single game out of 12 or 13 somehow proves something."

    Such as the 1 game against CU in '11?

    "Bottom line is:

    2011 #25/#26/#34 BYU(10-3) BETTER than unranked/#39 Utah(8-5)
    2012 unranked/#26 BYU(8-5) BETTER than unranked/#61 Utah(5-7)"

    Bottom-line is--

    2011 The U 54 byu 10 in provo; The U final SOS ranking of #49 and byu #90.
    2012 The U 24 byu 21; The U final SOS ranking of #41 and byu #63.

    Final conclusion--

    The U was better than byu in both '11/'12.

    BTW, my reference to final SOS rankings wasn't a complaint, as I'm eternally grateful for the enormous upgrade in our SOS and its potential reward. I'm merely pointing-out what the byu fanbase conveniently avoids to acknowledge at every turn, namely that SOS definitively factors into a school's final record. It's inherently unequivocal.

    Next.

  • EdGrady Idaho Falls, ID
    Aug. 26, 2013 3:46 p.m.

    Losses to Utah State and BYU - 4-8 record - Timpview HS has a new defensive coordinator.

  • mussingaround Palo Alto, CA
    Aug. 26, 2013 3:33 p.m.

    AZUTE1

    "What's utterly meaningless, is the incessant obsession of the byu fanbase in referencing this one, single game against CU in '11 when attempting to proclaim their team is better than ours."

    What's utterly meaningless is the incessant obsession of the Ute fanbase trying to claim that a single game out of 12 or 13 somehow proves something.

    Bottom line is:

    2011 #25/#26/#34 BYU(10-3) BETTER than unranked/#39 Utah(8-5)
    2012 unranked/#26 BYU(8-5) BETTER than unranked/#61 Utah(5-7)

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    Aug. 26, 2013 3:19 p.m.

    Marked it Down--

    "Regardless of how many times you cluelessly post this meaningless stats, it's still MEANINGLESS"

    What's utterly meaningless, is the incessant obsession of the byu fanbase in referencing this one, single game against CU in '11 when attempting to proclaim their team is better than ours. Our game against CU in '11 has zero to do with The U/byu, zero!

    What's the matter, you can't reference the head-to-head meetings between The U/byu or something?

    Here's the sole-reality of The U/byu--

    3 straight, 4 of 5, 8 of 11, 13 of 20 and the insurmountable overall-record, 56-34-4. The U straight owns byu!

    Next.

  • Chris B. 4 Prez! Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 26, 2013 2:14 p.m.

    @J-TX:

    As an uprooted Ducks fan living among Longhorn fans, your opinion is that our version of football is not real. (At least, as not as real as in Oregon, or Texas.) Last time I checked, the Utes really DID whoop 'Bama! Longhorns football has been REALLY fake and overrated as of late! And your Ducks can't seem to win when it really MATTERS, for that matter!

    You suspect that your adopted Texas high school team could hang with either Utah or BYU...and everyone knows that wouldn't happen in a million years. (It's called REALITY, my friend!) Root for your Ducks proudly (I'm already agreeing that the Utes face quite a tall order in Eugene! But, no taller than when they were given a 1% chance of beating 'Bama!!) and best of luck dealing with the repercussions that invariably come from your surrounding Longhorns neighbors, who believe they're better than everyone on the planet! Even more so than the masquerading fans of Yale! Er, TDS (team down south)! GO UTES

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    Aug. 26, 2013 2:13 p.m.

    Marked it Down
    Park City, UT said:

    "WACpaddled

    "Regardless of how you cluelessly spin it, BYU is 3-8-1 all time against Colorado."

    Regardless of how many times you cluelessly post this meaningless stats, it's still MEANINGLESS>"

    WAC legacy fans wrote the book on meaningless stats to boost their egos to make up for the lack of a real conference invite. How funny that you accuse others.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    Aug. 26, 2013 1:03 p.m.

    From Kevin Gemmell--

    "I think you have to give Utah at least four seasons in the Pac-12 -- a full class cycle -- before you can start passing judgment on Whittingham. Remember, not only are they adjusting to a higher level of play every week, but they need a grace period to re-work how they operate their program. Utah is seeing television money never thought possible in the Mountain West, and part of the learning curve is figuring out the proper way to appropriate that funding. Hiring Dennis Erickson is a great start -- a move they never would have been able to make financially in a non-AQ conference. Nor would a non-AQ team be able to attract a big-name coach like Erickson to be a coordinator. Let the money sink in, let the new facilities work their magic on recruits and if Utah has a four- or five-year bowl drought, then you can open up discussions. But Whittingham -- who I believe to be an outstanding coach -- should be sitting on ice for now."

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Aug. 26, 2013 11:42 a.m.

    @out of state utah "fan"

    Pretty simple really. People that live in state have better access to more information than those that live out of state, for the most part. Instate people have the local news to watch which is focused on instate teams. We have the local radio stations to listen to, we have the local papers to read (not everything printed in the papers is also posted in the online editions), we have friends and neighbors that actually work at the universities, have children, friends and aquaintences playing at and attending the universities, and many of us have ties to the universities which take us to them on a regular basis and many times that means right into the sports programs.

    It is just a simple matter of being here.

    I like how my pointing out that obvious truth caused you to call me "arrogant" though, especially when you consider the arrogance of the poster I was replying to who was calling BYU fans opinions "irrelevant". utah "fans" like yourself never disappoint with the hypocrisy though. lol

  • DrUte Woods Cross, UT
    Aug. 26, 2013 11:35 a.m.

    Hard to fathom why ANY conjecture exists concerning Coach Whitt's job security...

    His departure has about the same probability as Warren Jeffs' full pardon, his subsequent conversion to Catholicism, election as Pope, and relocation of the Holy See from Rome to San Angelo, Texas.

    Now THAT would be worth some DN ink.

    The UofU, Dr. Hill, and Coach Whitt are joined at the hip.

    ROCK: Get Real.

  • Out of State Utah fan Alpharetta, GA
    Aug. 26, 2013 10:48 a.m.

    @ WON84 : Greetings to TX! Love that area. Big Dallas Stars fan. I love reading these comment boards but had to call out Duckhunter's opinion that in STATE fans know their rival's team better than a fan living out of state.

    You are correct that many of the earliest posts on articles are from rival fans - both sides are equal in the smack talk. Look, folks - neither team has proven themselves this year and living in SEC country, both teams are hardly acknowledged down this way. Except some do remember that Utah beat Alabama one year and that BYU beat GA tech and the GA tech fans want that corrected!

    Utah fan through and through. Utah football has greater potential and the better opportunity to get where it wants to be. Kyle Wittingham has a few years to go before a losing season does him in.

  • J-TX Allen, TX
    Aug. 26, 2013 9:37 a.m.

    "Utah has never had three consecutive losing conference seasons."

    Until this year.

    And FYI, I am not a BYU fan, just an impartial observer from a state that plays REAL Football. I have a suspicion that our HS team could beat either BYU or Utah this year....

    - A Duck Fan (I moved to TX from OR.)

  • thebigsamoan Richmond, VA
    Aug. 26, 2013 9:28 a.m.

    @Zorro,

    "Here's the harsh reality folks.
    Since UA & ASU joined the PAC 8 35 years ago,they have reaped:

    UA- 1-Tri Champion

    ASU- 2x Champion
    1 Co-Champion
    In 35 years!!!!!

    If UA & ASU can't do it how do think you can??? REALLY?... REALLY?
    COME ON MAN!..."

    First of all, why judge Utah on ASU and UA's situations? What makes you think that Utah can't do it just because those AZ universities couldn't do it? Look, as much as I dislike and hate much of the absurd venom from some Utah fans, I still do think their program is far from being bad. I think Kyle and the Utes are on their way to making some noise in the Pac 12 and I hope they will. Just give them time. As long as we beat them whenever and wherever we meet, I want them to wildly succeed and beat everyone else. I love the Utes. I just happen to love BYU much more!

    Go Cougars! And go Utes too!

  • WON84 PLANO, TX
    Aug. 26, 2013 9:16 a.m.

    "Out of State Utah fan

    Alpharetta, GA

    @ Duckhunter: there is that BYU arrogance we are all familiar with. Why are out of star fans less knowledgable about their team than an in state fan of the rival team?"

    Well, haven't seen your name on BYU comment boards (I am only here to wish KW well) but, if you ever visit one you'll see every single one is opened by Ute fans. The comments are not well wishing and many pertain to recruiting "star" rankings (maybe you were referencing?).

    But, to answer your question you get air time on both daily. In Texas, it's rare to hear about either though ESPN radio occassionally mentions Van Noy.

  • WON84 PLANO, TX
    Aug. 26, 2013 9:12 a.m.

    "Regardless of how you cluelessly spin it, there's NO Excuse for losing at home to a 10-loss team that hadn't won a road game in four years.

    ________

    Regardless of how you cluelessly spin it, BYU is 3-8-1 all time against Colorado."

    And when was the last time they played? Yeah...

  • Out of State Utah fan Alpharetta, GA
    Aug. 26, 2013 9:08 a.m.

    Comment should have read, in STATE fans. Fairly certain that most BYU fans are from out of state. An apology to Co Ute might be in order.

  • WON84 PLANO, TX
    Aug. 26, 2013 9:08 a.m.

    "Utah has never had three consecutive losing conference seasons."

    Part of this is due to the fact that there have been many seasons where BYU was the only tough conference game. The MWC provided some seasons where this was not the case but, that was toward the end.

    Also, the Pac 12 is probably second to the SEC in strength this coming season. If Whittingham finds a way to break even he should receive a pay increase.

  • WON84 PLANO, TX
    Aug. 26, 2013 9:05 a.m.

    "Look for BYU to make a 2nd offer if he's fired from Utah."

    Yes, he'd make a great defensive coordinator allowing more focus from the top on the offense.

    Hopefully he is not fired though. He's a good guy.

  • Out of State Utah fan Alpharetta, GA
    Aug. 26, 2013 5:58 a.m.

    @ Duckhunter: there is that BYU arrogance we are all familiar with. Why are out of star fans less knowledgable about their team than an in state fan of the rival team?

  • idaho cougar fan Twin Falls, ID
    Aug. 26, 2013 1:35 a.m.

    Chris B.

    I've written it down and will call you out when it doesn't happen! Good luck!

  • Marked it Down Park City, UT
    Aug. 25, 2013 10:19 p.m.

    WACpaddled

    "Regardless of how you cluelessly spin it, BYU is 3-8-1 all time against Colorado."

    Regardless of how many times you cluelessly post this meaningless stats, it's still MEANINGLESS>

    The last time BYU played Colorado was in the 1988 Freedom Bowl, where beat Colorado 20-17.

    BYU has beaten the Buffs 3 of the last 4 times they've met, including a 1981 beat down of the Buffs at Colorado 41-20 and 7-3 win in Provo in 1946.

    The last time BYU lost to Colorado was a narrow 7-9 setback at Colorado in 1947.

    The sorry Utes, on the other hand, lost to the 10-loss Buffs in 2011 and barely beat the 11-lost Buffs by 42-35 in 2012.

    Regardless of how you frantically and emotionally try to spin it, BYU has done MUCH better against Colorado in the last 67 years, since 1946 (3-1) than your sorry Utes (6-10-1)

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Aug. 25, 2013 8:45 p.m.

    TJ, almost thought you were serious about those predictions until that last one! Very funny, good stuff. Can't wait to talk later this season!

  • Steven S Jarvis Orem, UT
    Aug. 25, 2013 7:10 p.m.

    If the Utes fired Whittingham it would say a ton about the program and being unrealistic. Besides, who do the Utes think they can get for a similar price to replace him?

    The Utes probably won't go bowling this year or the next. The team is too young and inexperienced. However, given time they will grow and be a team others will respect. The Utes have decent talent and come 2015 if Whittingham is still the coach they will probably be in the mix for the South division and ranked. He flat out coaches and gets the most out of his team.

    If the Utes abandon Whittingham, Utah will tailspin for another three or more years. Its possible things would get worse. Just don't go there. Whittingham should be given at minimum till 2016. He will get it done.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    Aug. 25, 2013 7:00 p.m.

    TheSportsAuthority
    Arlington, VA
    christy

    "Why have wins been hard to come by?"

    Simply because U haven't been any good...

    Average Sagarin rating of #50 in your first two seasons is proof of that.

    Regardless of how you cluelessly spin it, there's NO Excuse for losing at home to a 10-loss team that hadn't won a road game in four years.

    ________

    Regardless of how you cluelessly spin it, BYU is 3-8-1 all time against Colorado.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    Aug. 25, 2013 6:54 p.m.

    BYUalum
    South Jordan, UT
    Utah bit off more than they could chew going into the PAC12 and thought, that with their inflated egos, they could play with the big boys. The news during spring and fall practice for this team has certainly been under the radar, not very much to cheer about.

    _________

    Inflated egos, really? I have not seen Utah players and coaches running around with cute t-shirts displaying catchless phrases.

    One and done BYUalum. One and done.
    One loss = no title shot for BYU masquerading as an elite team.

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Aug. 25, 2013 5:34 p.m.

    ThomasJefferson, "With an easy out of conference schedule, why they wanted to drop BYU"

    How do you figure that? Fresno has been on about the same level as BYU and USU, and BYU fans have told us what a quality team they are since the Cougars scheduled them (but not when Utah did). Michigan is clearly head and shoulders above BYU and USU. Additionally, Utah will have to actually travel outside the state to play both of these teams, adding some degree of difficulty. With only three nonconference games, and having one of them as basically a tune up and exhibition home game for the fans, playing both the others inside the state of Utah every year does little for recruiting and expanding the program's footprint. Selfishly, I'd love to play USU and BYU every year, but with present circumstances, I understand it's just not going to happen. But I don't mix emotions with reason to make up excuses why they don't, like several on each side do.

  • UtahBy44 Beaver, UT
    Aug. 25, 2013 1:13 p.m.

    @ Zorro

    "If it's BCS games Utah fans want to keep going to, jumping from the MWC was a mistake! You only had 2 games a year; BYU & TCU with the rest walk overs. Do you really think you can out recruit USC, UCLA, Stanford & Oregon? "

    "If UA & ASU can't do it how do think you can??? REALLY?... REALLY?
    COME ON MAN!"

    That's the difference in mentality between Utah fans and BYU fans. BYU fans want the easier road with lesser rewards at the end of each season. With that BYU will reach their 3rd tier bowl game that nobody cares about and some meaningless ranking (some years). Meanwhile Utah fans embrace the challenge of playing top quality competition each week. Losing seasons will happen, but Utah will adjust over time. Plus the rewards a team gets in a BCS conference far outweigh anything a team get as an independent (except Notre Dame).

    To put it simply: Utah faces the challenge and BYU shies away from it!

  • GoRed WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Aug. 25, 2013 12:40 p.m.

    Beautiful posts by CO Ute and Just Smiling. It is very tiresome for Ute fans to have to be reminded that Utah has not gone undefeated in the PAC 12. No, they haven't had the luxury of playing a few challenging games, padded by playing many of the weakest (WAC) teams available in college football. Unfortunately, that has given most BYU fans a false sense of superiority. As Just Smiling has accurately pointed out, during this period of adjustment, Utah has STILL managed to beat BYU.

    @duckhunter

    Your continued reference to, in your own words, utah "fans" as opposed to BYU fans is insulting. I'm not sure why the Deseret News editors continue to allow you to do this.

  • moderate_in_sugarhouse Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 25, 2013 11:04 a.m.

    Kyle’s conservative/risk adverse coaching style was great for the MWC. However, clearly, it is not working for the PAC-12. Kyle’s biggest fault is his loyalty to those close to him and his aversion to hiring people who are smarter than him. Hiring Brian Johnson as the OC is one of the biggest jokes in College FB. At the same time, hiring a former personal injury attorney (Sharieff Shah) in lieu of an experienced corner back coach are just 2 examples of Kyle’s inability to recruit talent at the national level for the UTES coaching staff. If Utah goes 6-6 or 7-5 this year and is invited to a mediocre bowl, Kyle’s safe. Another 5-7 year, the heat will really be on. A 1-11 or 2-10 season, Kyle will be looking for another job. It is interesting to note that Chris Hill has only 2 more years left on this contract and Hill has lost a lot of clout on campus in the last year, would a new AD let Kyle go in 2 yrs if things don’t improve?

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 25, 2013 10:38 a.m.

    "Utah has never had three consecutive losing conference seasons."
    Yes, and the level of competition in the PAC12 is just like the Mountain West.

    National press writers predicted it would take 5 years for the Utah and TCU programs to catch up to their BCS leagues. Shouldn't coach Whitt be given those 5 years? Hate to see him run off early because of the impatience of a local writer.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    Aug. 25, 2013 10:25 a.m.

    Sooner or later Whit will move on...and he will take the PAC12, the upgraded facilities and the Utes Fan Base with him...lol.

    When he does move on, Whit will be just fine, and the Utes will be just fine...There's a lot of very good coaches out there that will jump at the chance to coach a program in the PAC12.

    Thanks to duck and the rest of the haters for their expertise on the Utes, their coach, and their Fans...Their input will be the deciding factor on whether Whit goes or stays...lol.

    Go Utes.

  • HappyUtahMan Springville, UT
    Aug. 25, 2013 8:49 a.m.

    Hey Pipes and BigCougFan,
    Trying to rip on Utah's tough season last year, you're forgetting a key fact: Utah still owns BYU. If Utah is no better than 9th in the PAC-12, BYU would be 12th. How do I know that? Because Utah has continued to thump that embarrassing independent program, who is not even relevant enough to get invited to a relevant conference.
    Expect another Utah W against BYU in Provo this year. And Utah will finish at least 7-5 this year - a very commendable season for the nation's 12 th toughest schedule...

  • jim l West Jordan, UT
    Aug. 25, 2013 8:38 a.m.

    4 wins will be pretty hard to come by.

  • TheSportsAuthority Arlington, VA
    Aug. 25, 2013 8:27 a.m.

    christy

    "Why have wins been hard to come by?"

    Simply because U haven't been any good...

    Average Sagarin rating of #50 in your first two seasons is proof of that.

    Regardless of how you cluelessly spin it, there's NO Excuse for losing at home to a 10-loss team that hadn't won a road game in four years.

  • Whoa Nellie American Fork, UT
    Aug. 25, 2013 8:15 a.m.

    This whole article is a non issue. Kyle is safe since he is a top tier coach. If it gets to the point of having multiple seasons of 8 or more losses then he'd better worry about the safety of banks and the stock market since his job will be held by someone else. Until then this is just another example of a slow day in the sports department waiting for something more concrete to write about.

  • Veritas Bountiful, Utah
    Aug. 25, 2013 8:06 a.m.

    To CO Ute from Parker,

    Why do you look forward to time away from the Holy War? Could it be that this game adds additional pressure to the Utes' already-difficult PAC-12 schedule as to affect the Utes' postseason hopes and KW's continued relationship with the University? Would you like a cupcake on the schedule in BYU's place? What possible good would that do for the Utes to water down their schedule?

  • mindgames Aurora, CO
    Aug. 25, 2013 7:40 a.m.

    Well Chris B. I guess being the .2 in the PAC-10.2 has its price.

    But at least you have your forum.

    For my money KW is a great coach for Utah being able to balance the "state of Utah culture" with the BIG-5 Conference needs. But the PAC-10.2 sees a bigger picture and KW may be a little too "Mormon" for the liberal west coasters.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Aug. 25, 2013 7:29 a.m.

    @co ute

    Any BYU fans opinion on this is just as relevant as yours, or any other utah "fans". We all read the papers and many read the blogs, we all know people at both schools on the teams, coaches, and admins. We all watch the games. We all listen to the radio.

    utah "fans" like yourself have this strange idea that simply because you CHOSE to like a certain team it makes you more knowledgeable than everyone else. You also think that because the team you CHOSE to like is in a particular conference you all have some vastly greater reservoir of knowledge about that conference or about the game in general.

    Here's a bit of knowledge you seem to be in need of,

    YOU don't KNOW anymore than anyone else. Your opinions are of no more relevance than anyone else's. I'd actually assert that since you live out of state you may know less, making your opinion even less relevant, than the majority of BYU fans that live in state and post here.

    utah "fan" angst is an interesting thing considering all the bragging you do and how you have supposedly "moved on". lol

  • BarkforSark PROVO, UT
    Aug. 25, 2013 7:05 a.m.

    Three wins. Write it down. Gonna be a miserable year for Utah.

  • Strider303 Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 25, 2013 6:37 a.m.

    It should be noted that Utah was the alternate choice for the PAC 12. Utah was invited for the Salt Lake TV market, the athletic teams didn't count, and do not count.

    I would like to see Utah do well but the odds are against them because it is hard to recruit against the old PAC 8 schools with sun, beaches and the life-style.

    If Utah does well in athletics it is a Cinderella story, nice to dream about but seldom gonna happen.

    It's about money. Utah will be paid a nice paycheck to show up, play well and loose and go home.

    I hope they do well but they were "hired" for the role of runner-up in a two-man race.

  • Just Smiling BOUNTIFUL, UT
    Aug. 25, 2013 2:38 a.m.

    Wow ...this is great. Good work D-News and BYU fans- Without a game played you have Kyle Whittingham looking for a new job and the Y as a national championship contender with their newly revamped, supercharged, turbo driven, no one will stop it, we're going to be danged good and we're going to be scoring alot of points....without playing a single down. The no huddle offense is not a brand new idea and I don't recall the team Anae is coming from as being a national champion. Really, really, really tired of article after article referring to Utah's past 2 years records that obviously proves that they won't have a winning season. I have an idea... let's play the games. Maybe BYU had a better record for the past 2 years but they haven't beat any quality teams for 2 years and have lost to Utah 3 in a row. Are there any athletes that write for D-News that understand when you leave a C league and go to an A league, there's a learning curve? Compare apples to apples!

  • JD Las Vegas, NV
    Aug. 25, 2013 2:27 a.m.

    I am so tired of reading that the Utes are going to have a down year, bologna! The Utes will have a successful year. Whit is an excellent coach that probably hung on to Jordan Wynn too long, but outside of that he has done nothing but improve this program year in and out. Utah IS the first team to ever be invited to a BCS conference, nobody knows how long this will take to be competitive. But Utah has been in almost every PAC-12 game with a chance to win it with 5 minutes left with just few exceptions. I think the DesNews is just trying to stir the pot, how about focusing on reality. A new offensive line is going to make huge mistakes in Provo, the offense is not going to be successful until that unit gels which in all likely hood will be next year. QB's are going to get hurt, due to missed assignments, it will be a long year in Provo. Utah is going to be just fine!

  • No Illusions Midvale, UT
    Aug. 25, 2013 1:26 a.m.

    OK RockOn, so you are saying the only sure win for the Utes is Weber State? Playing at Wazzu will not be easy, The Buffs beat you a couple of years ago in the annual Toilet Bowl with your new rival. Fact is, when USU beats you on your home field you will be looking at possibly a 1-11 year as per your own post. Will a year like that keep the "Great Whit" his job? And next year you will not have your true rivals to get up for, how will that turn out? My guess "The Great Whit and his Cougar turn-coats will be looking for a new job."

  • RockOn Spanish Fork, UT
    Aug. 24, 2013 11:37 p.m.

    Where will the wins come from?
    Based upon last year's performance and projected strengths of this year's teams:
    Sure losses:STAN,UCLA,@USC,@ORE, ORST
    Likely losses: ASU, @ARIZ
    Flip a coin: @BYU, USU
    Likely wins: WEB, @WSU COLO

    Probably 5-7
    Maybe 6-6

  • CO Ute PARKER, CO
    Aug. 24, 2013 11:25 p.m.

    To the 3 or 4 Cougar fans above that made basically the same post. Yes we all know that KW went to school in Provo though you seem to be obsessed with pointing out that fact. We also know the KW is coaching at Utah and turned down a chance to coach the team down south.

    Regarding you thoughts on his skills as a coach, your comments are irrelevant to real Utah fans; just as you don't care what we think about your coach. You really should worry about what you are going to post if we beat you again this year. Frankly I'm thrilled with the decision to take a break from the Holy War for a couple of years.

  • JayTee Sandy, UT
    Aug. 24, 2013 10:05 p.m.

    But he's probably already made enough money to carry him through the rest of his life. Just like the Romans near THEIR downfall, we do love our spectator sports. And our open borders, and our "cheap" labor, and our attempt to police the known world, and devaluing our currency, etc., etc. So history repeats itself, but as long as "our" team is winning, who cares . . . right?

  • Buzzards LEHI, UT
    Aug. 24, 2013 9:56 p.m.

    Right about now, Whittingham is probably wishing he had taken the BYU job when it was offered in 2005.
    But he made his own situation, now he has to own it.

  • Zorro Bakersfield, CA
    Aug. 24, 2013 9:51 p.m.

    Here's the harsh reality folks.
    Since UA & ASU joined the PAC 8 35 years ago,they have reaped:

    UA- 1-Tri Champion

    ASU- 2x Champion
    1 Co-Champion
    In 35 years!!!!!

    If it's BCS games Utah fans want to keep going to, jumping from the MWC was a mistake! You only had 2 games a year; BYU & TCU with the rest walk overs. Do you really think you can out recruit USC, UCLA, Stanford & Oregon?

    If UA & ASU can't do it how do think you can??? REALLY?... REALLY?
    COME ON MAN!

  • rlsintx Plano, TX
    Aug. 24, 2013 9:13 p.m.

    Chris B. - your posts today sound like Baghdad Bob. Relax, all those multi-star recruits will pull through for the U.

  • rlsintx Plano, TX
    Aug. 24, 2013 9:09 p.m.

    He's safe unless 2014 is bad. He's a good one.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 24, 2013 9:03 p.m.

    I think the biggest blunder KW has brought on himself is OC turnover. Since 2008 we've had 5 OCs which has lead to a inconsistent offense.

    I think KW has two more years. His first PAC-12 class graduates next year. If the program still can't compete in the PAC-12 then look for KW to be fired.

    Look for BYU to make a 2nd offer if he's fired from Utah.

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    Aug. 24, 2013 8:57 p.m.

    I think the article is spot on. Another sub .500 year will put a lot of heat on Kyle, and a sub .500 year in 2014 would send him packing. I hope that doesn't happen, but I don't see any way the Utes go bowling this year. To think they will go 8-4 is looking through crimson colored glasses.

    Personally, I hope U go 10-2, only losing to the Cougs and the Aggies. Good luck.

  • Darth Vader Ogden, UT
    Aug. 24, 2013 7:50 p.m.

    Toughest schedule in school history.

    Just one game at a time.

    Ute's will do the state proud.

    GO UTES!

    p.s. The PAC12 should play an 8 game conference schedule like the SEC, not 9. It just gives half of the teams 1 more loss. Most the SEC schools shedule a bye or cupcake (out of conference) right before the final stretch. Heck, most of them have 8 home games as well.

  • Kralon HUNTINGTON BEACH, CA
    Aug. 24, 2013 6:29 p.m.

    It is interesting how much alike Kyle and Bronco are, with both being good defensive coaches but both having put into place offensive coaches that couldn't produce good results. Now, both seem to have their offenses better positioned, but maybe not totally productive in the first year of a new offense.

    I think Kyle is a good coach and while he, like everyone, has made a few mistakes I hope he gets at least a few more years to improve the Utes.

  • R.A.W St George, Utah
    Aug. 24, 2013 6:21 p.m.

    IMO, Utah is in for 2 more losing seasons before Kyle is able to right the ship and get back on track. I think Kyle is a great coach and I wish he would have taken the job in Provo 8 years ago, but the competition in the PAC-12 will keep Utah in the cellar another couple years. 2016-17 will give the Utes a schedule without Oregon and Stanford, and will wrap up 4-5 years of Pac-12 recruting.

    Ute fans will just have to be patient until then.

  • Down under Eugene, OR
    Aug. 24, 2013 5:48 p.m.

    Me thinks Whit better dust off the resume because 4-8 won't cut it.

  • BYUalum South Jordan, UT
    Aug. 24, 2013 5:23 p.m.

    Utah bit off more than they could chew going into the PAC12 and thought, that with their inflated egos, they could play with the big boys. The news during spring and fall practice for this team has certainly been under the radar, not very much to cheer about.

    I think that Kyle Whittingham (former BYU standout player) will certainly be looking for another job if his team doesn't produce this year. And, this is the hardest season ever for them. It will be interesting indeed to see how it plays out. We will be able to see a lot when they play Utah State this coming Thursday.

    I think this is BYU's year to beat the Utes.

    Go Cougars!

  • stonewall Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 24, 2013 4:53 p.m.

    I think it's tough to judge Whittingham at this point. Obviously he has a record which through 2010 was above reproach. He had a signature season in '08, a few top-25 finishes, and was consistently good. And the win against Alabama was one of the most impressive in college football history. Then the past couple seasons, while I won't go so far as saying the wheels have come off, there has been a sharp drop in success. On first glance, that might be attributed to the conference move. There certainly has been a large decrease in the number of gimme games. But at the same time, Whittingham made a terrible hire of a 25 year-old with one year of coaching experience at any level as his OC, under recruited the QB position to the point he was starting a transfer from a Division II program that no longer exists, and lost to a Colorado team that was slaughtered by middling Mountain West teams that year with a division title on the line. Arguments can be made both for and against him, but I do believe that he has squandered his unquestioned job security

  • BigCougFan Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 24, 2013 4:44 p.m.

    I like Kyle (After-all he's a graduate of the best University in the State) but his team hasn't produced much more than hot air for the Ute fans to spew on the BYU story comment boards. Aside from an invite to the PAC 10/12 there's not a thing to cheer for up on the hill.

  • Pipes Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 24, 2013 4:25 p.m.

    It would be unfortunate to lose Kyle. I like him. He is after all, a Cougar alumni. I think the fact that the utes are going to have a down year is a given despite posts to the contrary by a few delusional fans.

  • mercyfulf8 gilbert, AZ
    Aug. 24, 2013 4:25 p.m.

    I bet Whittingham will get 5 years to turn the program into a program that can compete in the PAC12 before he is in serious jeopardy of losing his job. To be fair to him he needs a chance to recruit with Utah's new facilities and PAC12 clout. I don't know why some people thought the transition to the PAC12 would be easy, but at least for the foreseeable future people will by tickets to see the elite PAC12 teams that come to Utah.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 24, 2013 4:17 p.m.

    I'm fully behind Whittingham.

    He'll take us to 8-4 this year and we'll be in Rose Bowl contention within last 1-2 games of season.

    Mark it Down.

    I'll remind you all that I called it. 8-4 and we have as good of a chance for South Title as anyone but Colorado.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 24, 2013 4:13 p.m.

    Kyle knows how to have top 5 undefeated teams.
    Ericson knows how to have top 5 undefeated teams.

    It's only a matter of time until we return to where we belong.

    Kyle said from day 1 it would take time to get the depth needed to compete in the Pac 12.

    Recruiting has improved EVERY YEAR since our Pac 12 invite(both average stars AND head to head recruiting against in state schools)

    Things are coming along EXACTLY as Kyle stated from day 1.

    Why have wins been hard to come by? The pac 12 teams have had 100% Pac 12 recruits. We're slowly getting to that level.