Comments about ‘BYU sports: Athletic director Tom Holmoe entertains, informs fans at BYU's Education Week’

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Published: Wednesday, Aug. 21 2013 7:05 p.m. MDT

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STuFOO
Korea, AE

Let's all nit pick at what Tom says, turn his words around, an misquote him...

What do you say ute fans, whatcha got?

Christopher B
Ogden, UT

Stufoo,

I'm just curious why byu fans haven't called him out on perhaps the biggest mistake in byu football history.

The big 12 came calling. Holmoe represented byu in those discussions. And the Big 12 went running away and decided AFTER negotiations failed on TCU and West Virginia.

Don't kid yourself and say its the Sunday issue. No it isn't. The Big 12 knows byu would never play on Sunday. They wouldn't have approached byu if they weren't willing to work around that.

The only thing that seems to have happened is Holmoe thought that byu deserved to be treated like Texas.

Disagree?

I'd love to year byu fans' thoughts.

Holmoe says "an offer wasn't given" but I think he's being misleading there.

An offer won't be officially made until terms are agreed upon.

Holmoe must have demanded something he shouldn't have, and thus no offer was given.

More than anything I'm just surprised byu fans aren't calling him out on this.

IF Chris Hill had blown our chance at a Pac 12 invite, I'd be calling for his replacement TODAY.

But he didn't.

Cougsndawgs
West Point , UT

Chris B:
BYUs president Cecil Samuelson, and BOT were the people calling the shots in discussions with the Big 12 and later with the BE. I think you're under some false idea that ADs ran the show for expansion and realignment talks. While they may have played a role, it was university leadership at every university involved in expansion that made the critical decisions and negotiations. I do agree with you that Homoe stating there was never an invite is disingenuous. The Big 12 isn't going to extend an invite until formal discussions have taken place and agreements made. I can't remember where I read it, but an inside source said the Big 12 just wanted BYU to jump and that BYUs concerns and reassurances could be addressed after they joined, but BYU was gun shy after what happened with the MWC on a wink and a smile. I stil think the Big 12 will get pressure from the other 4 conferences to have a championship game and at least 12 programs, so BYU may get a second chance.

Whatsnu
Sandy, UT

chris b

Tom Holmoe hesitated on negotiations to join the Big 12 because it appeared at the time that Texas and Oklahoma might bolt to the PAC 12, along with Oklahoma State and Texas Tech, leaving the Big 12 as only a shell of the conference it is today.

Holmoe wanted to make sure BYU wasn't going to be joining a conference with no television contract and consisting of only Kansas, Kansas St, Iowa St, and Baylor.

Christopher B
Ogden, UT

Cougsndawgs and Whatsnu,

Thank you. And that is a sincere thank you.

So often I will bring up questions but byu fans will dance around the issue and not answer the question. You both had logical responses that addressed my questions.

But to further the discussion:

Cougndawgs, you mention byu had "concerns and reassurances" that the Big 12 wanted to address at a later date. This is where I revert to believing that Holmoe(or Samuelson or just "byu") wanted Texas-like concessions. And byu is not texas, even though fans think they are. If byu had accepted what the big 12 offered(probably something reasonable for a new member, with addition of Sunday exception) then it would have been done. Byu must have demanded something they felt entitled to, or else the big 12 would have made it happen.

Whatsnu-

If what you say is correct then the Big 12 would have come back to byu once Texas and OKlahoma agreed to stay. They did not invite TCU and West Virginia until AFTER Texas and Oklahoma had turned down the Pac 12.

But clearly byu did something to burn that bridge(more than just waiting for Texas/Oklhaoma)

Porter-Rockwell
Cedar Hills, UT

Several very credible sources have said that there was an "invite." I say "invite" because loose ends had to be tied up. These sources are very close to the program and have all expressed to me a "shock" that Tom has NOT been more forthcoming. However, I respect Tom for the fact that legally and morally when the "invite" was retracted, he has wisely chosen NOT to give details. I think if he did, the B12 would see it as whining and complaining. Tom saw it as an honor that we were considered. He still sees possibilities for us. It is best that he NOT state anything and keep a positive door open.
The real reason for the breakdown truly was BYUtv. Yes we did want a Longhorn deal, our cake and eat it all too. Tom worked with several brethren in SLC for funding for BYUtv and the new complex. It was a MAJOR investment to be treated with care. If they were not allowed to use it for its intended purpose...millions wasted! Sunday play was minimal except for olympic sports. Be positive. It may come back again. if not, so be it.

STuFOO
Korea, AE

Christopher B

I am good at my job. in fact, I am excellent at it. I get paid a lot of money to lead people, make decisions, and chose what happens to people's lives, well being and, futures.

There are many people who arm chair quarterback me. They think that they can do a better job and get better results. they think that because they can see 10%, they see it all.

I find it very interesting that people who are not involved in the day to day management of a corporation, government entity, or in this case a team or set of teams, think that they have enough information to lead from the outside. You may understand 90% of the problem, and still come to the wrong conclusion because you don't have the other 10%.

This is not to say that I am a follower. I couldn't get to where I am at by simply following orders. I question authority probably more than most. However, I don't armchair quarterback the situation.

STuFOO
Korea, AE

Continued...

You, and other "fans" assume things you think are true. and you know what assume means, right?

I am happy to let Holmoe and Bronco and Rose make decisions for the teams. I don;t need to second guess their decisions, or even worry about the situation. It does not matter what I think and airing out my opinion just falls on deaf ears.

People think that Holmoe has make mistakes and caused the current situation. It seems that u fans are more vocal about it than BYU fans which is odd, given that u fans seem to be always obsessed with what others think about them.

Meanwhile, BYU does what it has always done, be BYU.

When "fans" get all bent out of shape at schedules, conferences, and SOS, I have to laugh. It shows that they know 10% of the issues and speculate on the other 90%.

A few years back, from 1998 to 2008 I did not see one BYU game on TV, nor did I follow the team. these last few years I have enjoyed watching, but I do not live or die with football.

I let those who know 100% lead.

Whatsnu
Sandy, UT

I don't know all of the details, but I've heard that BYUtv was a sticking point and some Big 12 schools, who were already hyper-sensitive about Texas constantly pushing them around, may have over-reacted to what BYU was asking. Yes, BYU wanted the right to rebroadcast football games televised by the Big 12's broadcast partner, and the right to broadcast BYU football, basketball, other BYU sporting events not televised by the Big 12's broadcast partner. Perhaps, after seeing the working relationship BYU has established with the WCC, those schools will better understand what BYU was asking for.

Moving forward. Since the ACC followed the Big 12 model in having member schools sign away their broadcast rights to the conference, it's very unlikely that, if/when the Big 12 decides to expand to 12 or more teams, that any school from the ACC will be available.

Therefore, if/when the Big 12 decides to expand, BYU will once again be a prime target for Big 12 expansion.

Cougsndawgs
West Point , UT

I think in the end there were sticking points, like BYUtv, Sunday option for mens basketball, etc. When the dust settled, TCU and WVU didn't have those sticking points and were ready to jump at the chance to join. I think it really is that simple. As far as expansion in the future, as I stated...I think the Big 12 will be pressured into expanding by the other "power" leagues. It's a simple scenario...when a Big 12 team is given a chance to play in the playoff while an SEC team, or B1G team loses out because of losing in the conference championship game, the power conferences will have to step back and say, "wait a sec, we lost out because of the CCG, while they didn't even have to play". That very scenario WILL play out soon and ruffle the power conference feathers a little. The opposite could happen which would out pressure on the Big 12 from fans and member institutions...being left out because a CCG winner nudges them in the selection. Both these scenarios will happen & the Big 12 will be forced to looking at expansion again.

ekute
Layton, UT

Could it be that the coyness and ambiguity of byu's administration is due to ongoing under the table negotiation with the PAC12, or at least hope for future negotiation?

STuFOO,
Did you call us out just so you could put us in our place? lol.
I don't think you're statement applies to sports administrations where fans and supporters are entitled to ask reasonable questions. Cheers.

Christopher B
Ogden, UT

Stufoo,

So you think all leaders should be trusted 100% and that followers should believe everything they say and believe they are always right and always made the right decision?

Wow.

Talk about a recipe for disaster

BlueCoug
Orem, UT

ekute

"Could it be that the coyness and ambiguity of BYU's administration is due to ongoing under the table negotiation with the PAC12, or at least hope for future negotiation?

Not likely.

Geographically, the PAC 12 is a better fit. Culturally, the Big 12 is a better for BYU. Athletically and from a marketing perspective, either conference would benefit, as would BYU, from BYU joining their conference.

STuFOO
Korea, AE

Chistopher B

You are missing the point, again.

You calling for a resignation when you have no power, no clout, and no knowledge. Who cares?

"Holmoe must have demanded something he shouldn't have, and thus no offer was given."

Says a u fan with an axe to grind.

You can speculate all you want, you don't have all the info.

I love it when u fans are the experts on all things BYU.

It shows me that you don't sit in a position of power and make decisions. People who are in those positions have learned to hold their tongue, and wait for all the information.

Generals, commanders, Bishops, bsuiness CEO's, don't go around spouting off what others in power positions should be doing, because they have been there. They don't listen to the ankle biters, they wait, learn, and figure out how to make it a strategic win, regardless of the reason.

I'll let the historians rate Tom's job. Until then, I'll wait this one out. I believe it is several magnitudes more complex than anyone on these boards understands, regardless of how hard they beat their chests.

STuFOO
Korea, AE

Christopher B

Which is worse...

The platoon that disobeys orders, rushes in not knowing the situation, assuming that they know what is going on, and walking into a trap.

or

the platoon that listens to their leaders, listens to orders and carries them out, knowing that their leaders have more information than they do?

But again you are missing the point. Who are you? How are you to them? Who are you to the football system? How much do you actually know?

This is displayed in your question...

"So you think all leaders should be trusted 100% and that followers should believe everything they say and believe they are always right and always made the right decision?"

By overgeneralizing and talking in absolutes, you think that your argument is without flaws and that it leaves me no ground to go to.

Fail.

I don't have a dog in the fight. BYU is capable of making decisions and has a whole lot of people working the issue.

There are a whole lot of other things I fight leaders on and that people should not follow them. This is not one of them.

STuFOO
Korea, AE

Christopher B

here is another point where you don;t get it...

You implied that I follow blindly in your statement at 11:50 am.

It shows that you don't really read other people's comments. You are so sure you want to jump into it, that you don't take time to understand.

Go back and read the last paragraph of my comment made at 10:07.

I would not be where I am at if I blindly followed. I follow as a choice, when people whoa re placed in authority over me are worthy of leading. Even when they are not, I don't go strait to bucking their leadership.

There are better ways to shape opinion than challenging a leader directly. there are also more productive ways to challenging a situation, than challenging the person.

When I retire in a few years, give a lot of money to BYU and get tickets on he 50 yard line,then I will be in a position to challenge what I want to.

Right now, I don't have the time to question others in a job I do not have, who have more information then me.

Porter-Rockwell
Cedar Hills, UT

This really is not all that hard to understand.
1) BYU administration and LDS leaders approved plans to build the new broadcast center even before the Utah breakaway. The first goal was to offer religious and sports programming worldwide. The second goal was to have the possibility to offer the MWC or B12 or other the possibility to have games on national tv in HD. The MWC and B12 did not like that BYU would be in control. The MWC had enough of BYU and the B12 did not want a new conference upstart dictating terms, especially since they were already struggling to keep their flagship program.

2) The PAC never wanted and will never want BYU. If they are forced to go 16 teams, BYU will NOT be on the list. Presidents and Chancellors have made that abundantly clear. If there are any niceties, it is to maintain the Utah game and obtain the 2 for 1 games that BYU wants. Tom can hope for a 16 team invite, but it will not be forthcoming.

3) BYU and the brethren are very happy with ESPN and have told Tom to keep it.

4) National High profile donors want BYUTV

Reno Cougs Fan 68
Reno, NV

It is really good to hear about Jimmy Mac!!! Me and my family were at the Holiday Bowl against SMU, we had traveled from Fresno, it was cold and gloomy until the end and I am so glad we stayed and witnessed one of the greatest comebacks I can remember in a football game ever!!!

Go Cougs!!!
Go Utes except Sept. 21st
Go Aggies!!!

Christopher B
Ogden, UT

StuFoo,

Spin all you want it boils down to this.

The big 12 was interested and willing to work around the Sunday issue.

byu didn't play nice and the big 12 didn't like how byu handled things.

And the big 12 decided against byu and later went after tcu/west Virginia.

Byu fans want in the big 12. You had a chance.

LOL!

Marked it Down
Park City, UT

christy

Nothing but BYU hating spin.

The Big 12 was interested in BYU, but unlike Utah, which had absolutely no capability of their own to broadcast their own sports events, BYU wasn't willing to simply abandon a multi-million dollar, state-of-the-art, HD television studio and network to see BYU sports events go untelevised, as happened frequently with The Mtn -- see 2010 BYU vs Fresno State men's basketball game that The Mtn wouldn't televise or let BYU televise, while The Mtn was televising re-runs of a sports statistics show and a round-table discussion of the upcoming basketball season.

Utah was so desperate to be accepted, that Hill willingly accepted any terms that the PAC offered, including 2nd-rate status, and no money or only partial shares for several years. From all appearances, the PAC got exactly what it wanted in Utah, a warm body to act as a punching bag for the big boys of the conference to pad their conference win totals.

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