@kfbobSALT LAKE CITY, UTto: LDS Liberal, JJJHS and allI think that you are confused about Jesus's message and intent. =========== I am not confused about no such thing.Quite the contrary.Jesus told us WHAT to do, he never said
HOW to do it, only that you give through your heart.I can give to
country just as easily as my ward.The Lord judges on the Heart.BTW -- Unless we live in a 100% little Mormon world, we can't
do it alone through our Ward Bishops.We can't even take care for our
OWN, let alone the 98% of America that is NON-Mormon.
to: LDS Liberal, JJJHS and allI think that you are confused about
Jesus's message and intent. The bible (scriptures) speak a lot about
compassion, service and love for the needy (What you have erroneously described
as "social justice"). Jesus didn't say "if there
are poor among you, make give money to Caesar and Caesar will create a program
to help the poor". Jesus encouraged personal service, personal compassion,
one human being another human being. Only through personal volunteer service can
the server and the served grow spiritually. When gov't taxes and pays a
bureaucracy to provide service to those who are poor, how does the human
spirituality and goodwill of humankind increase? It doesn't. Bureaucrats
are paid to provide service. The needy don't feel the love and compassion
that they feel from a volunteers who gives his service through love and charity.
In the current "social justice" model, humanity is not
strengthened through service compassion and love. The current poor and needy
are a "number" waiting in line for a gov't worker to provide a
handout, which never feeds their soul, and never lifts them out of their
to: JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidtI am LDS and do all the things you
describe. I am a conservative (not republican) probably leaning more to
libertarian.I have many friends and ward members that are registered
democrats and great LDS people. However, they have almost nothing in common
with the national democratic party. They don't believe in abortion on
demand, or late term abortions. They don't believe in Gay Marriage. They
believe in hard work, accountability and compassion. They believe that personal
service, churches and volunteers are the best way to combat society ills, not
government. They believe in a strong nuclear family, and support government
measure that strengthen the family. I am not sure why they are democrats except
maybe they want to be different than most in Utah. Bottom line: If
you do not support abortion on demand and gay marriage, you are not considered a
progressive by the national party. Hey, but at least you can tell all your ward
members that you are a progressive democrat...It's nice to be different and
they won't know what that means anyway.
There appears to be a general misunderstanding on this board about what Liberal
and Conservative means in terms of Christ's teachings.Christ surely
taught to feed the hungry, clothe the poor, care for the widow and the orphan.
But nowhere in those teachings does he say we should force people to do so. To a liberal, you implement Christ's teachings by creating
government programs and laws. To a conservative, that is directly
contrary to his teachings. A conservative would quietly feed, cloth, care
through his own means and time, not force others to live His teachings through
Religious progressive. Tall midget. Breathing corpse. Alcoholic teetotaler.
to Wildcat...Using an analogy to verify a precedence? All you so you
can denigrate an opinion? Interesting.
@KathyActually, King Solomon did want the baby cut in two--so yeah
there is a biblical presidence there. There was even the rounding up the oldest
male of every household. Just lightening the mood--but seriously, don't
oversimplify this issue. Is there a religious tenant to carry a
rapist's baby to term? or to carry a baby caused by incest to term? Or to
jeopardize the life of the mother on a severly at-risk baby? Do you condone
killing abortion doctors? I'm not going to broadbrush an issue and say
that all conservatives are for these tenants--please return the favor.
"So is killing of the unborn a tenant of the "Religious Progressive"
cause I guess I missed that in all my religous studies?"Kathy,
if you were to read the article you would see that for the majority of religious
progressives it is not a tenant we espouse. But if you feel the need to write us
off based on that single issue, that is your choice. Just know that unborn
babies are not the only innocent lives being killed.
May it please the moderators: Raybies, You don't have the
authority to speak on behalf of all religious progressives any more than
"mainstream" Christians have the authority to tell Mormons that they
don't get to call themselves Christians. It just might be that
individuals are more qualified to speak as to their own religious beliefs than
you are qualified to speak for them. (p.s.: I'm super excited
by the prospect of this thread turning into a pro choice vs. pro life debate.
That didn't take long at all. It warms my heart when religious
conservatives advocate so vehemently for embryos and fetuses in the first weeks
of development and at the same time are willing to tell children of the working
poor who are in need of social programs that their parents should just try
to Kathy @1:36...I consider myself a conservative progressive and a religious
progressive. I believe killing is wrong, unless directed by God.
Yes, I will kill a fly, but I'm just as likely to herd it outside.
Occasionally in my work I'll come across a rattlesnake. I never kill
them.Killing people, whether they be unborn, in war, euthansia for
horrible pain, or murder is also wrong, unless directed by God.Those
of us who are religious and have convictions about killing are very fortunate.
I believe we can avoid the worldly sorrow and wrath of The Almighty by not
killing nor anything like unto it.
So is killing of the unborn a tenant of the "Religious Progressive"
cause I guess I missed that in all my religous studies?
you got to love the conservative posters and their straw men.
I'm with JJJHS and LDS Liberal...I'm sure my conservaticve religious
beliefs (LDS) and experiences (Veteran, conservative upbringing, remnant
Depression-era habits) don't match well with my tolerant social
philosophy.Studying the Prophet Joseph Smith and the 14 Prophets
after him shows me that all of them were quite "liberal" in their
dealings with other people. They may not have been as Apostles, but once they
were called as Prophet and President of the Church, they became like Paul, King
Benjamin, St.Francis of Assisi and other powerfully religious, but Christ-like
humans.I think American politics still has great sway on the Church.
Democrat or Republican, Right-wing or Left-wing. That kind of thinking is far
too narrow for followers of Christ, members of the Church and emulators of our
to UtahBlueDevil"But boy isn't the world a lot simpler if
you can nicely divide everyone into good guys and bad guys.. Problem is that
only works for cartoons, story books, and those feeling superior to
others."Agreed. Except the last "category" s/b those who
need to label because of an inferiority complex.
@JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidtBeverly Hills, CAI am a proud
member of the Religious Left. I am proud to be LDS. I serve God and country. I
try to do as Jesus taught by trying to aid the poor, the sick, the needy and
have a good attitude about it. I try to be a good neighbor and good example. I
take care and pay for my kids. I also have a 100% Home Teaching attendance
record. No right winger can say I am the unethical and unreligious liberal they
love to despise. There are many more like me in the LDS Church, we just
don't feel the need to go on the attack about it.5:22 a.m. Aug. 21,
2013========= Amen, and Amen!I'm with
you BROTHER.Veteran, return Missionary, Married and Temple worthy
for 40+ years straight.I follow the Savior and his Prophets.If
that makes me LEFT, then so be it.Satan and his plan was
far-right-wing.[Forced Righteousness, Not one soul lost, self-reward and
self-Glory, and finally kicked out for REBELLION.]I stay as far away
that as possible!
Jesus was most definitely a progressive.
I suspect it's because they recognise that religion is personal, not a
The moral of the story - it is easier to corral and guide sheep.
It can be so very simple.Nature is my church. Kindness and humility
is my religion. Understanding and tolerance is my daily duty.
"They naively imagine up a world where religion is abolished, and all men
and women magically get along, living blissfully in a socialist utopia." I
am a lifetime socialist, and I have never met anyone you describe.
Geez, I wonder if I should identify myself as religious progressive?The Old Testament talks a lot about social justice. "Be kind to the
stranger, you were strangers in the land of Israel." "Do justice to the
oppressed, feed the widow, care for the orphan." In Matt. 25, Christ lays
out that those who fed the hungry, the poor, visited the prisoner, etc enter
heaven.A lot of people who self-identify as conservatives live these
principles so are they religious progressives even though they say they are
conservative.? The term liberal and conservative doesn't mean what it used
to. It means now, which team you belong to, whether than a set of principles.
I read the article about the Becket fund and Hobby Lobby and I thought,
"Great, there are still some real liberals out there." Are the people
in the Becket fund going to be part of the religious progressives?
"That said, a large faction of the Left despises Religion in all forms,
seeing it as weakness and evidence of weak-minded thinking."And
what percentage of the left is this group that despises religion? Are you
equally willing to say that because there is a very vocal ultra conservative
fraction, that they represent the majority of conservatives?"
Aren't they the same people who think its their "right" to kill
unborn? Religious?"According to a Pew Research study, over 60%
of those that consider themselves liberal don't support abortion. These
sweeping generalities applied to literally millions of people, pretending they
all believe and act alike is absurd... and simplistic at best.Just
one look at the chart included in the article proves that these fringe groups -
particularly on the right, are a shrinking crowd. Even Chaney, the most
despised many to "liberals", supports gay rights because of his
daughter. If Chaney can have multifaceted views of policies, surely average
people could as well.But boy isn't the world a lot simpler if
you can nicely divide everyone into good guys and bad guys.. Problem is that
only works for cartoons, story books, and those feeling superior to others.
I lean toward more to the ole saying If Momma ain't happy no one is. So,
what is acceptable and tolerated by her is the rule. Ya didn't want ta hear
her say just weight till your dad get's home.
JJJHS: Thank you for your dedication and willingness to show that good can be
found in all political parties, and also show that 'political parties'
are made up of people, and that good and bad people can be found on all both
sides of this 'coin'.
If one wishes to be a follower of Jesus then they will need to be a liberal
because Jesus was the ultimate liberal.
I'm reminded of the "guide" to dealing with conservative Christians
that some Democrat operative/consultant put out before the 2012 election. It
was reported to have said something like: "The key to understanding
conservative Christians is that they actually, literally, believe in God."
I'm not saying there aren't progressives who believe in God, but it
seems clear that most expressions of religious faith on the left are done with a
wink or two.
Religion is a very broad term! Jesus' enemies were very religious
(Pharisees). Democracy's enemies are very religious in fact they want to
kill (jihad) us and have succeeded many times and will again. The "religious
left" is a meaningless term. Aren't they the same people who think its
their "right" to kill unborn? Religious?
A person who believes in a higher power, but does not attempt to do anything
about it, imo, isn't religious. They're spiritual, but not religious.
Religious involves a religion. That said, a large faction of the
Left despises Religion in all forms, seeing it as weakness and evidence of
weak-minded thinking. They mock it continually, as clearly evident by reading
the material they put out to activate their political base... goto the
Huffington Post for a good dose of religious cynicism. Further, in
many of these "thinkers" minds (which you will discover as you peruse
the messageboards of their followers), they view religion as the cause of all
the major conflicts in the world, the source of global attrocities, and guilty
of all sorts of human rights abuses. They naively imagine up a world where
religion is abolished, and all men and women magically get along, living
blissfully in a socialist utopia.
The absence of a religious left is very much restricted to the US. If we look
across South America and Africa, the Catholic church, Liberation Theology, and
others have a much further left paradigm than anything in America. Our
"religious right" in America is considered to be intolerably cruel
(especially with regards to the poor) and uncaring by most international
standards. Every religious person I have personally met in Utah has supported
torture at Guantanamo Bay, wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, eliminating social
programs for the poor and elderly, and had outright contempt for the homeless.
"These terms (like "religious progressive") are really shallow
because they don’t actually describe anybody," I think it
describes the growing number of people who believe in a higher power but are
increasingly getting turned off by the power, money and control of organized
I am a proud member of the Religious Left. I am proud to be LDS. I serve God
and country. I try to do as Jesus taught by trying to aid the poor, the sick,
the needy and have a good attitude about it. I try to be a good neighbor and
good example. I take care and pay for my kids. I also have a 100% Home Teaching
attendance record. No right winger can say I am the unethical and unreligious
liberal they love to despise. There are many more like me in the LDS Church,
we just don't fee; the need to go on the attack about it.