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The religious left exists, but not as a political movement

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  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Aug. 24, 2013 8:51 p.m.

    @kfbob
    SALT LAKE CITY, UT

    to: LDS Liberal, JJJHS and all

    I think that you are confused about Jesus's message and intent.

    ===========

    I am not confused about no such thing.

    Quite the contrary.

    Jesus told us WHAT to do,
    he never said HOW to do it, only that you give through your heart.

    I can give to country just as easily as my ward.

    The Lord judges on the Heart.

    BTW --
    Unless we live in a 100% little Mormon world, we can't do it alone through our Ward Bishops.
    We can't even take care for our OWN, let alone the 98% of America that is NON-Mormon.

  • kfbob SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Aug. 24, 2013 11:46 a.m.

    to: LDS Liberal, JJJHS and all

    I think that you are confused about Jesus's message and intent. The bible (scriptures) speak a lot about compassion, service and love for the needy (What you have erroneously described as "social justice").

    Jesus didn't say "if there are poor among you, make give money to Caesar and Caesar will create a program to help the poor". Jesus encouraged personal service, personal compassion, one human being another human being. Only through personal volunteer service can the server and the served grow spiritually. When gov't taxes and pays a bureaucracy to provide service to those who are poor, how does the human spirituality and goodwill of humankind increase? It doesn't. Bureaucrats are paid to provide service. The needy don't feel the love and compassion that they feel from a volunteers who gives his service through love and charity.

    In the current "social justice" model, humanity is not strengthened through service compassion and love. The current poor and needy are a "number" waiting in line for a gov't worker to provide a handout, which never feeds their soul, and never lifts them out of their condition.

  • kfbob SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Aug. 24, 2013 11:09 a.m.

    to: JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt

    I am LDS and do all the things you describe. I am a conservative (not republican) probably leaning more to libertarian.

    I have many friends and ward members that are registered democrats and great LDS people. However, they have almost nothing in common with the national democratic party. They don't believe in abortion on demand, or late term abortions. They don't believe in Gay Marriage. They believe in hard work, accountability and compassion. They believe that personal service, churches and volunteers are the best way to combat society ills, not government. They believe in a strong nuclear family, and support government measure that strengthen the family. I am not sure why they are democrats except maybe they want to be different than most in Utah.

    Bottom line: If you do not support abortion on demand and gay marriage, you are not considered a progressive by the national party. Hey, but at least you can tell all your ward members that you are a progressive democrat...It's nice to be different and they won't know what that means anyway.

  • Social Mod Fiscal Con West Jordan, UT
    Aug. 24, 2013 8:41 a.m.

    There appears to be a general misunderstanding on this board about what Liberal and Conservative means in terms of Christ's teachings.
    Christ surely taught to feed the hungry, clothe the poor, care for the widow and the orphan. But nowhere in those teachings does he say we should force people to do so.

    To a liberal, you implement Christ's teachings by creating government programs and laws.
    To a conservative, that is directly contrary to his teachings. A conservative would quietly feed, cloth, care through his own means and time, not force others to live His teachings through government mandate.

  • Moontan Roanoke, VA
    Aug. 22, 2013 11:59 a.m.

    Religious progressive. Tall midget. Breathing corpse. Alcoholic teetotaler.

  • Pendergast Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 21, 2013 7:53 p.m.

    to Wildcat...

    Using an analogy to verify a precedence? All you so you can denigrate an opinion? Interesting.

  • Wildcat O-town, UT
    Aug. 21, 2013 3:00 p.m.

    @Kathy

    Actually, King Solomon did want the baby cut in two--so yeah there is a biblical presidence there. There was even the rounding up the oldest male of every household. Just lightening the mood--but seriously, don't oversimplify this issue.

    Is there a religious tenant to carry a rapist's baby to term? or to carry a baby caused by incest to term? Or to jeopardize the life of the mother on a severly at-risk baby? Do you condone killing abortion doctors? I'm not going to broadbrush an issue and say that all conservatives are for these tenants--please return the favor.

  • Dave D Spring Creek, NV
    Aug. 21, 2013 2:57 p.m.

    "So is killing of the unborn a tenant of the "Religious Progressive" cause I guess I missed that in all my religous studies?"

    Kathy, if you were to read the article you would see that for the majority of religious progressives it is not a tenant we espouse. But if you feel the need to write us off based on that single issue, that is your choice. Just know that unborn babies are not the only innocent lives being killed.

  • moniker lewinsky Taylorsville, UT
    Aug. 21, 2013 2:34 p.m.

    May it please the moderators:

    Raybies,
    You don't have the authority to speak on behalf of all religious progressives any more than "mainstream" Christians have the authority to tell Mormons that they don't get to call themselves Christians.
    It just might be that individuals are more qualified to speak as to their own religious beliefs than you are qualified to speak for them.

    (p.s.: I'm super excited by the prospect of this thread turning into a pro choice vs. pro life debate. That didn't take long at all. It warms my heart when religious conservatives advocate so vehemently for embryos and fetuses in the first weeks of development and at the same time are willing to tell children of the working poor who are in need of social programs that their parents should just try harder.)

  • patriot vet Cedar City, UT
    Aug. 21, 2013 2:08 p.m.

    to Kathy @1:36...I consider myself a conservative progressive and a religious progressive.

    I believe killing is wrong, unless directed by God. Yes, I will kill a fly, but I'm just as likely to herd it outside. Occasionally in my work I'll come across a rattlesnake. I never kill them.

    Killing people, whether they be unborn, in war, euthansia for horrible pain, or murder is also wrong, unless directed by God.

    Those of us who are religious and have convictions about killing are very fortunate. I believe we can avoid the worldly sorrow and wrath of The Almighty by not killing nor anything like unto it.

  • Kathy. Iowa, Iowa
    Aug. 21, 2013 1:36 p.m.

    So is killing of the unborn a tenant of the "Religious Progressive" cause I guess I missed that in all my religous studies?

  • Sorry Charlie! SLC, UT
    Aug. 21, 2013 1:02 p.m.

    you got to love the conservative posters and their straw men.

  • patriot vet Cedar City, UT
    Aug. 21, 2013 12:55 p.m.

    I'm with JJJHS and LDS Liberal...I'm sure my conservaticve religious beliefs (LDS) and experiences (Veteran, conservative upbringing, remnant Depression-era habits) don't match well with my tolerant social philosophy.

    Studying the Prophet Joseph Smith and the 14 Prophets after him shows me that all of them were quite "liberal" in their dealings with other people. They may not have been as Apostles, but once they were called as Prophet and President of the Church, they became like Paul, King Benjamin, St.Francis of Assisi and other powerfully religious, but Christ-like humans.

    I think American politics still has great sway on the Church. Democrat or Republican, Right-wing or Left-wing. That kind of thinking is far too narrow for followers of Christ, members of the Church and emulators of our Prophet.

  • GK Willington Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 21, 2013 12:09 p.m.

    to UtahBlueDevil

    "But boy isn't the world a lot simpler if you can nicely divide everyone into good guys and bad guys.. Problem is that only works for cartoons, story books, and those feeling superior to others."

    Agreed. Except the last "category" s/b those who need to label because of an inferiority complex.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Aug. 21, 2013 11:55 a.m.

    @JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt
    Beverly Hills, CA

    I am a proud member of the Religious Left. I am proud to be LDS. I serve God and country. I try to do as Jesus taught by trying to aid the poor, the sick, the needy and have a good attitude about it. I try to be a good neighbor and good example. I take care and pay for my kids. I also have a 100% Home Teaching attendance record. No right winger can say I am the unethical and unreligious liberal they love to despise. There are many more like me in the LDS Church, we just don't feel the need to go on the attack about it.
    5:22 a.m. Aug. 21, 2013

    =========

    Amen, and Amen!

    I'm with you BROTHER.

    Veteran, return Missionary, Married and Temple worthy for 40+ years straight.

    I follow the Savior and his Prophets.
    If that makes me LEFT, then so be it.

    Satan and his plan was far-right-wing.
    [Forced Righteousness, Not one soul lost, self-reward and self-Glory, and finally kicked out for REBELLION.]

    I stay as far away that as possible!

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Aug. 21, 2013 10:42 a.m.

    Jesus was most definitely a progressive.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Aug. 21, 2013 10:00 a.m.

    I suspect it's because they recognise that religion is personal, not a political movement.

  • Tyler D Meridian, ID
    Aug. 21, 2013 9:44 a.m.

    The moral of the story - it is easier to corral and guide sheep.

  • riverofsun St.George, Utah
    Aug. 21, 2013 9:38 a.m.

    It can be so very simple.
    Nature is my church.
    Kindness and humility is my religion.
    Understanding and tolerance is my daily duty.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 21, 2013 9:21 a.m.

    "They naively imagine up a world where religion is abolished, and all men and women magically get along, living blissfully in a socialist utopia." I am a lifetime socialist, and I have never met anyone you describe.

  • Tekakaromatagi Dammam, Saudi Arabia
    Aug. 21, 2013 9:00 a.m.

    Geez, I wonder if I should identify myself as religious progressive?

    The Old Testament talks a lot about social justice. "Be kind to the stranger, you were strangers in the land of Israel." "Do justice to the oppressed, feed the widow, care for the orphan." In Matt. 25, Christ lays out that those who fed the hungry, the poor, visited the prisoner, etc enter heaven.

    A lot of people who self-identify as conservatives live these principles so are they religious progressives even though they say they are conservative.? The term liberal and conservative doesn't mean what it used to. It means now, which team you belong to, whether than a set of principles. I read the article about the Becket fund and Hobby Lobby and I thought, "Great, there are still some real liberals out there." Are the people in the Becket fund going to be part of the religious progressives?

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Aug. 21, 2013 8:33 a.m.

    "That said, a large faction of the Left despises Religion in all forms, seeing it as weakness and evidence of weak-minded thinking."

    And what percentage of the left is this group that despises religion? Are you equally willing to say that because there is a very vocal ultra conservative fraction, that they represent the majority of conservatives?

    " Aren't they the same people who think its their "right" to kill unborn? Religious?"

    According to a Pew Research study, over 60% of those that consider themselves liberal don't support abortion. These sweeping generalities applied to literally millions of people, pretending they all believe and act alike is absurd... and simplistic at best.

    Just one look at the chart included in the article proves that these fringe groups - particularly on the right, are a shrinking crowd. Even Chaney, the most despised many to "liberals", supports gay rights because of his daughter. If Chaney can have multifaceted views of policies, surely average people could as well.

    But boy isn't the world a lot simpler if you can nicely divide everyone into good guys and bad guys.. Problem is that only works for cartoons, story books, and those feeling superior to others.

  • george of the jungle goshen, UT
    Aug. 21, 2013 8:25 a.m.

    I lean toward more to the ole saying If Momma ain't happy no one is. So, what is acceptable and tolerated by her is the rule. Ya didn't want ta hear her say just weight till your dad get's home.

  • Shimlau SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Aug. 21, 2013 8:10 a.m.

    JJJHS: Thank you for your dedication and willingness to show that good can be found in all political parties, and also show that 'political parties' are made up of people, and that good and bad people can be found on all both sides of this 'coin'.

  • skeptic Phoenix, AZ
    Aug. 21, 2013 8:09 a.m.

    If one wishes to be a follower of Jesus then they will need to be a liberal because Jesus was the ultimate liberal.

  • esodije ALBUQUERQUE, NM
    Aug. 21, 2013 8:07 a.m.

    I'm reminded of the "guide" to dealing with conservative Christians that some Democrat operative/consultant put out before the 2012 election. It was reported to have said something like: "The key to understanding conservative Christians is that they actually, literally, believe in God." I'm not saying there aren't progressives who believe in God, but it seems clear that most expressions of religious faith on the left are done with a wink or two.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Aug. 21, 2013 7:50 a.m.

    Religion is a very broad term! Jesus' enemies were very religious (Pharisees). Democracy's enemies are very religious in fact they want to kill (jihad) us and have succeeded many times and will again. The "religious left" is a meaningless term. Aren't they the same people who think its their "right" to kill unborn? Religious?

  • raybies Layton, UT
    Aug. 21, 2013 7:37 a.m.

    A person who believes in a higher power, but does not attempt to do anything about it, imo, isn't religious. They're spiritual, but not religious. Religious involves a religion.

    That said, a large faction of the Left despises Religion in all forms, seeing it as weakness and evidence of weak-minded thinking. They mock it continually, as clearly evident by reading the material they put out to activate their political base... goto the Huffington Post for a good dose of religious cynicism.

    Further, in many of these "thinkers" minds (which you will discover as you peruse the messageboards of their followers), they view religion as the cause of all the major conflicts in the world, the source of global attrocities, and guilty of all sorts of human rights abuses. They naively imagine up a world where religion is abolished, and all men and women magically get along, living blissfully in a socialist utopia.

  • FatherOfFour WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Aug. 21, 2013 7:27 a.m.

    The absence of a religious left is very much restricted to the US. If we look across South America and Africa, the Catholic church, Liberation Theology, and others have a much further left paradigm than anything in America. Our "religious right" in America is considered to be intolerably cruel (especially with regards to the poor) and uncaring by most international standards. Every religious person I have personally met in Utah has supported torture at Guantanamo Bay, wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, eliminating social programs for the poor and elderly, and had outright contempt for the homeless.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Aug. 21, 2013 5:52 a.m.

    "These terms (like "religious progressive") are really shallow because they don’t actually describe anybody,"

    I think it describes the growing number of people who believe in a higher power but are increasingly getting turned off by the power, money and control of organized religion.

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    Aug. 21, 2013 5:22 a.m.

    I am a proud member of the Religious Left. I am proud to be LDS. I serve God and country. I try to do as Jesus taught by trying to aid the poor, the sick, the needy and have a good attitude about it. I try to be a good neighbor and good example. I take care and pay for my kids. I also have a 100% Home Teaching attendance record. No right winger can say I am the unethical and unreligious liberal they love to despise. There are many more like me in the LDS Church, we just don't fee; the need to go on the attack about it.