These are very interesting data to factor into explaining a couple of other
stats: Utah beating BYU 13 of the last 20 games and seven of the last 10. I
recognize that these stats are just about winning--you know, whole team effort
rather than just one-half.
@DeepBlueYet, how many BCS bowl wins does BYU have?
Looking at the those numbers, one thing jumped out at me.That 2001 Cougar
offense was really, really good.And they could have put up even bigger
numbers had Doman and Staley not spent half the 3rd and entire 4th quarters on
the bench in a handful of the games.Had they been able to stay healthy
(Staley, leg; Doman; shoulder), they could have had a really special season.
Pre-season and mid-season rankings are simply a snap-shot of projected or
current state.Some teams start off hot, then cool off. Others
struggle early, then finish the season strong. The point is, nobody knows just
how a good a particular team, or their opponents, is until their entire body of
work can be evaluated. 2012 pre-season AP #1 USC finished the season 7-6 with a
loss to Georgia Tech(7-7) in the Sun Bowl. No reasonable fan would try to claim
that their team played a ranked USC team just because the Trojans were ranked
before USC demonstrated that they didn't deserve to be ranked.A
team that started the season 6-0, but finished 6-6, would never try to claim
that they had an undefeated season.A team that was 6-6 before their
bowl, but lost their bowl game, still finished 6-7 with a losing record. It
doesn't matter whether you slipped below .500 in your first game of the
season or your last, you still finished with a losing record.Final
ranking is the only ranking that counts.
Rankings? Please someone help me. When do they count. The final ranking? For
example, SJSU finished ranked in the final poll. They spent a total of one week
in the poll. Utah State spent two weeks in the polls. Utah State was not
ranked when Utah played them. BYU was ranked when Utah played them. Same can
be said for UCLA. Arizona and Washington were both ranked during the season.
In fact Arizona spent as much time in the polls as USU. So my question is when
do they count. I don't know, but I am under the impression they are
nothing more than opinions from selected coaches and sports writers. In my
opinion the only ranking that matters is if your team, Alabama the past two
years, finishes on top of the final rankings. With my calculations, Utah played
BYU, USC, OSU, UCLA, Washington, USU, and Arizona. Thats 7 teams that were
ranked last year. So when do they count. Yes I understand some teams peak
early and some late. Injuries can add to the confusion. I'm not looking
for an argument, just some to tell me when they count with some good rationale
to defend their view.
utahcountyuteCedar Hills, UTOne thing not mentioned (big
surprise) is the level of competition. For the last 2 years the Cougars and
Aggies are dealing with the likes of Boise, Notre Dame, Oregon State and
Wisconsin (go AGGIES!). While the Utes have been beating up and running up the
score on the likes of Washington State and Colorado. Oh.Wait a minute. U LOST to Colorado? And eked out an overtime win at Wazzu?
And that was your good season???What are u guys gonna do this year
when u finally DO play a true PAC schedule?Just say'n.
No surprise here; with rare exceptions, BYU has had a better offense than Utah
since the LaVell Edwards era began.More fuel for the fire...College Football Rankings: The Top 50 2013 Team Schedule Posters#10 BYUdidn't make the cut Utah
Compliments to the author, you are providing excellent data.We have
seen defensive statistics and offensive statistics. Now we need end of season
ranking and strength of schedule. I wonder if it is possible to clearly chart
preseason rankings along with end of season rankings to evaluate if teams met or
exceeded expectations each year. Perhaps number of wins could be charted on the
same graphic as strength of schedule.
utahcountyute"One thing not mentioned (big surprise) is the
level of competition."More whiny excuses about "level of
competition" from the hill kids?BYU played FIVE Top 25 teams in
2012; Utah only played TWO.UCLA(6-8) and ASU(6-7) both had LOSING
seasons in 2011 and USC(7-6) wasn't much better in 2012.And U
also forgot to mention Utah "running up the score" on 10- and 11-loss
Colorado, Washington State, and Big Sky teams.The spin and hyperbole
from the hill never stops.Just say'n.
One thing not mentioned (big surprise) is the level of competition. For the last
2 years the cougs and aggs have been beating up and running up the score on the
states of Idaho, New Mexico and Nevada. Ok, not Nevada but you get my point.
While the Utes are dealing with the likes of USC, UCLA and ASU each week. Just say'n.
JazzUteFanSALT LAKE CITY, UTBYU fans can take scoring more points
than the Utes, but I'll go ahead and take going 8-3 over the past 11 years
and 3-0 over the past 3 seasons.Yeah, start with the BAD Crowton
years. You guys can't even count Crowton's first year when BYU won!
Why not compare the Lovat and Edwards years? Crowton isn't at BYU anymore,
and Urban isn't at Utah. Be content with 5-3 during the Whittingham-Bronco
years, while you can.
U 90Corona, CAUteanymous,Remind me again why you only
look at the Kyle Bronco ERA and never seem mention BCS bowls, Top 5 finishes,
National Coach of the Year, #1 draft picks and head to head results?I'll bite: BYU has more National Coach of the Year awards (3-2), is
better in Top 5 finishes (two each, but BYU has a #1 and has been ranked 18
times to Utah's 7), more college HOF players (6-0), more first round draft
picks (11-7), (You aren't really going to brag on Alex Smith and compare
him to the host of BYU All-American QB's, college and NFL HOF QBs are you?)
and unless you count the leather helmet era before BYU surpassed Utah
academically and wasn't yet a University, is better head-to-head. (Do you
count victories over Boise when they were a JC?)
BYU fans can take scoring more points than the Utes, but I'll go ahead and
take going 8-3 over the past 11 years and 3-0 over the past 3 seasons. I think
this years match up will be a classic. BYU's front 7 is rock solid, but I
think Utah's strengths are at O line, TE and they have solid running backs
(especially if York stays healthy) so it'll be interesting to see if Utah
can run on BYU's defense. That factor, and whoever makes less mistakes will
determine the winner of the game.
Utah wears red. Alabama wears red. They MUST be equal because both teams wear
red!!Geesh. That isn't how things work Chris B.Utah beat Alabama. Does that make Utah better than Alabama every year? The
Utes happened to match up extremely well with Alabama in 2008. However, Alabama
matches up very well with so many more teams than the Utes that Alabama will
almost always be considered to be superior to Utah.The same is often
true of BYU. Utah plays its best against BYU. However, those same Utes are
liable to tank the season or lose to awful teams.
U90 BCS bowl, Top 5 finish, and national coach of the year all
occurred during ONE season in the Bronco/Kyle era. #1 draft pick occurred during
the Urban Meyer era.Kyle gets credit for one great, 13-0, Top 5
season.Bronco gets credit for three very good, 11-2, Top 15 seasons.btw, Utah fans have boasted about Utah's BCS bowls ad nauseum for
years.It's like a symphony of two notes.Unfortunately for U, 2 BCS bowls will NEVER = 1 National Championship
regardless of many millions of times U pound on those two notes.BYU
reached 10 AP Top 25 Finishes, 1 National Championship, and 1 Heisman Trophy
over 20 years ago.Call us when the Utes reach any of those
milestones. At Utah's current pace, that may not happen for another
century, if ever.
christyUtah is no Alabama... just because U beat a disinterested
Alabama once, doesn't mean you're even close to being like Alabama.
Uteanymous,Remind me again why you only look at the Kyle Bronco ERA
and never seem mention BCS bowls, Top 5 finishes, National Coach of the Year, #1
draft picks and head to head results?By the way, I think you have
copied and pasted those numbers at least a millions times.
Chris B:Just FYI, Alabama was 31st in total offense, and 12th in scoring
offense last year...but you're right, their defense has carried the likes
of McCarron, Lacy, and Amari Cooper to championships....roll eyes.
Chris B:Stop talking about Nick Saban and Alabama as if you know anything
about them or follow them...it makes you look bad. Alabama won the NC last year
because of a very good offense, with a two headed beast at RB. Their defense was
very good statistically but was abused, especially in the secondary, against
good QBs like Manzeil and Aaron Murray. The last couple of years werent the
offensively impotent Alabama team U beat in the Sugar Bowl (who couldn't
throw the ball to save their lives)...the last few years Alabama had, by far,
the best O-line in the land, with a good QB and ridiculously talented WRs
(remember Julio Jones?). Utah hasn't had any offense to even compare to
Alabama's so stop pretending that Utah is, in any way, similar to them by
winning with defense. Bama wins on both sides of the ball...that's how you
win championships, not just with defense, not just with offense, but both, and
Alabama is vastly superior to Utah in BOTH...any attempt at comparisons on
either side of the ball to Utah is laughable.
"There is only one stat that matters, and that is the one on the scoreboard
at the end of the game."Apparently that's the only stat
that matters if that's the only stat you have going for you.If
head-to-head is what it's all about, then BYU is better than Texas and
Oklahoma.And YMCA is TONS better than Utah.
Can't wait until next week for the season to begin!
By quick and rough figuring, over the last 14 years BYU has averaged 41st on
offense and 36th on defense and Utah has averaged 29th on offense and 52nd on
defense. Pretty much a wash on statistics. Guess it comes down to this years
game and this years stats. Guess that's how it feels pretty much every
GoRed"There is only one stat that matters, and that is the one
on the scoreboard at the end of the game."Unfortunately for U
that's not true.The only stats that really matter are end of
season rankings:Top 25 FinishesBronco 5Kyle 4Top 15 FinishesBronco 3Kyle 1AP Top 25 FinishesBronco 4Kyle 2
Sorry little sister, but Utah's seniors are entering their second bowl-less
season, capped by Utah's freshmen beginning a winless streak versus their
rival.The only thing that's changed from the 80's is
instead of losing their bowl game in November, the Utes will now be losing their
bowl game to BYU is September.Utah wasn't even a good WAC team,
and still isn't, going winless against the WAC in their final year as a
Chris B"So if we're a step down from the big boys.
You're at least 2 steps away!"Nope; even in a bad year,
like last year, BYU's offense is still better than Utah's offense.If Utah's offense is a step down, BYU's offense is only a half
a step down or even.
Chris BAnd Utah's seniors already sense that they will go be
sitting at home for bowl season. Again.Doormat, thy middle name is
I want to be the green team :)GO UTES!!
Chris BI know Alabama, and u are no Alabama (not even in your own
mind)"BYU doesn't have the horses to keep with
Utah."Funny, that is not what the empirical data of this article
showed. BYU across the board was better."Ute seniors about to
complete the career 4-0 SWEEP!"In your dreams.utah
has been in decline for 4 years. u won;t bowl this year, and you won;t have a
winning season...and u won't beat BYU. In fact, I don't
even think u'll beat USU.Our future is bright, that is why u
are so eager to put it down.with your incredible insight, maybe they
will call you to be the utah coach when Whit gets the can for not being able to
perform with all the "horses" u claim no one but u has.the
buck has to stop somewhere.On top of that, I would rather be a BYU
fan than u fan EVERYDAY. I have three advanced degrees and none of them garner
as much respect as the one from BYU.
Note to BYU fans:There is only one stat that matters, and that is
the one on the scoreboard at the end of the game.
stufoo,Ute seniors about to complete the career 4-0 SWEEP!When was the last time a byu graduating class won 4 in a row?Oh my
how the times have changed haven't they?byu is a WAC quality
program and that is your future
Another pointless article from the DesNews...although this one actually
contained pointless statistics to go with it.
BYU is better than Utah and Utah State. Got it? Good
Even with BYU's anemic offense last year, they still had better stats than
utah.Wow, so two BCS bowls does not make a dynasty. Can't wait until until the 9/22 when the ute trolls are all too shell
shocked to say anything.
Funny how in every way, including the annual records...Utah is in
decline.Everyone knows it but u fans.And they call BYU
fans delusional.Can't wait to poind the u this year.Good luck Aggies,Go Cougars!
What would be interesting would be to take all opponents average defensive yards
allowed per game and se how the teams'. Differentials stack up. Do the Utah
schools put up more yards and points than their opponts allowed on average?A good way to eliminate any SOS issues skewing the numbers. Obviously
BYU and Utah played similar opponents until two seasons ago, but bowl games and
non-cons also can skew these figures.Overall, Utah state is looking
good and is making some big improvements. Utah and BYU have been trading off who
has better O or D.
DeepBlue:And remind of what the head-to-head record has been in that
span. I forget.
WACMajor,And Alabama's defense has carried them.What works for Alabama is good enough for me!
Offense don't win championship, defense does. If a defense can get the
stops when they need to, they usually win the games.
midpacmajor...The Utes might not have the horses to keep up with the big boys
but they usually always have enough horses to beat BYU...... 8 out of the last
It's interesting that in 2003 and 2010, when BYU had the worst seasons
during the Crowton and Mendenhall eras, Utah's and BYU's offenses were
similar in production, as was, coincidentally, Utah State's.
WACmajor,And byu doesn't have the horses to keep with Utah.So if we're a step down from the big boys.You're
at least 2 steps away!LOL
jonnyboy"Huh, so scoreboard doesn't count..."Who said anything about scoreboard not counting? The comparison is based
strictly on offensive production.In total yards per game, BYU lead
Utah in 9 of 13 seasons, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011 and
2012. Utah lead in 2003, 2004, 2005 and 2010.
Leave it up to a BYU fan to claim a moral victory in 2005. Last I checked, 1
point is still a win.
Best offenses in the bunch:BYU 2001, 2006, 2007, 2009Utah
It's obvious that Utah's defense has carried the them. Except for 2004
when the Utes played a weak schedule, their offense hasn't been much to
shout about, which explains why the Utes have struggled, and will continue to
struggle in the PAC; the Utes simply don't have the horses to keep up with
the big boys.
Huh, so scoreboard doesn't count, but whoever had the most offensive
production does? Well, I must be missing something about this sport that I have
been watching for ever so many years.
doesn't look like great consistency for any of the 3 teams...
Looks like BYU finished ahead of Utah in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2006, 2007, 2008,
2009, 2011, and 2012.Utah finished ahead of BYU in 2003, 2004, and
2010.BYU and Utah tied in 2005.9-3-1
Overall nothing too impressive from any of the teams.The best
overall record by a team from Utah against the other Utah teams during this time