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Comments about ‘Religion enhances mobility toward American dream, LDS Church says’

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Published: Tuesday, Aug. 20 2013 12:15 p.m. MDT

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Utahdane
Bountiful, UT

Charlie,

I have 2 BA degrees and one MA degree. I am working 3 jobs that are below my level of education. I am also getting help from other sources. Help from others and helping yourself is the only way to success. You also might have to move. Good luck. It is very hard. It also helps to know people. That is why joining a church, political party, or club might help. By the way college education is paid for by taxpayers in Denmark. It also has a small population who are hard working and have strong cultural ties to their homeland.

Nosea
Forest Grove, OR

Chris B:

Your ignorance really shows in your response to Dimelo. A lot of us have experienced the same thing as he has.

Many good IC designers for instance cannot get a job precisely because of Mitt Romney and others like him who outsource good IC design jobs to China and India and then for good measure bring tens of millions of Asians over here to give the rest of the design jobs to them here in my own country. It is called artificial market manipulation (to keep the wages down, but only for those on the bottom as we do not import CEOs) -- so that the CEOS and Mitt Romneys can walk away with millions of dollars the rest of us get pushed out of a job by a market saturated by Asians. I would like to see you "make yourself" marketable under such extreme conditions -- oh, but you businessmen have all the answers (just maybe that is why the economy is in such a mess, and the few are walking away with it all). According to you the 1% are the most marketable of all, because they are walking away with 93% of the profits. Get a clue.

Brother Benjamin Franklin
Orem, UT

It is quite clear that Chris B is attempting to make a joke here.

Everyone take it easy, please.

patriot
Cedar Hills, UT

The two words progressive liberals hate the most - "religion" and "American dream". The new liberalism effectively kills the American dream and of course forces atheism.

marxist
Salt Lake City, UT

The contacts of LDS through their wards and stakes can be enormously useful to them. And the LDS Church welfare program is a model for many to copy. But the LDS Church has consistently opposed government social welfare floors such as social security and medicare. It's as though the Church sees government as a competitor to be crushed. So, the Church is very much a mixed bag from my point of view, a socialist. It overwhelmingly means well, but is ignorant of thinkers such as (and especially) Marx. The Church is wonderful, and leaves much to be desired politically, at the same time.

Utahdane
Bountiful, UT

I do not believe what matters most is the people who run the system and not the system itself. Denmark has a very liberal system that works. Mormons have a very conservative system that works Both probably have very competent people running things. I do agree; however, that Socialism takes away incentives, but our current system pays management and a CEO way too much. How about a system that has more incentives for hard work. Why is labor taxed more than capital? Tax labor less, pay higher wages for higher profits. Have tax free benefits to the poor. Lower taxes for manufacturing in America. Give social security to those who have earned it and need it. Not to the lazy or the rich. These are my ideas.

MormonSean
Salt Lake City, UT

God helps us change for the better. Other people can call it what they want and live in their world of cynicism. But I'm happy and I do better every time I rely on the Lord for my support and aid. It's pretty simple.

Johnny Moser
Thayne, WY

Lots of engineering jobs out there in the world. You want a job in your field, you just might have to MOVE where the jobs are. You can't just get a couple of degrees in Engineering and then chose to live where jobs using your expertise aren't.

Sometimes interesting that they chose to call it social mobility when it really DOES REQUIRE mobility. You can't park yourself in a one-horse town and expect to find the job you want.

RAB
Bountiful, UT

What Denmark has in common with Utah is that a high percentage of the people live according to religious principles. Denmark may have the lowest numbers of people who belong to a religion, but they still obviously have a high number of people who live according to religious principles. The number of people professing to belong to a religion is irrelevant. What is important is the number of people who giving willfully to the poor and needy and who try to help people in need.

ImABeliever
Provo, UT

@ dimelo; obviously you may have Engineering Degrees but you don't know what prosperity means. Why people always associate prosperity with wealth is beyond me. This makes zero sense.
Prosperity could mean good health, a good family things like that. Get off the prosperity equates to money and you will understand what real prosperity means and maybe count your blessings and be grateful to God.

dimelo
PEYTON, CO

Johnny Moser:

I have worked in Engineering for 20 years in 6 different states -- the problem is H1B visas coming over and taking all the engineering jobs now. And it is against their laws for me to take jobs in India or China. So, you have all the answers apparently, what do I do now?

If you are 1 of 4000 plumbers in Denver CO and they dropped 20000 plumbers from India in your town, and the same is happening in all the other cities, your job is going to be gone, no matter how good of an engineer you are. But then again, you all have the answers to everything, right?

dimelo
PEYTON, CO

ImABeliever

I have a family with young children I need to provide for. I am supposed to go to Walmart then and try to provide for a family on poverty wages, and be grateful for my family nonetheless? I am not hearing too many practical answers. By the way, I am grateful for my family; I would like to be able to provide for them, and being wealthy has not ever been an option for us (I think you misjudged my situation).

ImABeliever
Provo, UT

To: Dimelo, I wasn't judging the situation. I was stating the fact that people don't understand what the definition of prosperity means. People are so narrow minded and cynical anymore it is frightening. Before texting, emailing came along people actually used the brain that God gave them. Now many aren't functional and are only short sighted.

Say No to BO
Mapleton, UT

@dimelo
My heart goes out to you. I was out of work from October 2008 to November 2011.
I am working at about 1/3 the pay I was making in 2000.
I feel like I'm working for the health insurance.
I'm 59 years old.
The American Dream hasn't worked for a lot of us lately. Our cheese has been moved and there isn't much we can do about it.

Now, about the article. Utah is filled with "social capital," an interesting buzzword.
Utah is also highly polarized between LDS and Gentiles. The Mormon connection is not as strong in the business and political world as our detractors suppose, but that still isn't much consolation to those who feel they are on the outside.

t702
Las Vegas, NV

Sorry Charlie!
SLC, UT
@Chris B
The man has two engineering degrees how exactly is he suppose to make himself more marketable? Bu hiding his education so he can get a poverty level job at Walmart? that sounds goof then we can pay through our taxes for his food, healthcare and loan defaults while Walmart makes massive profits."

You can make yourself marketable by creating your own work. If no one hires you, get off your butt and hire yourself! there are trees to cut, lawn to mow, trash to pick, and millions of other services that you can provide. I am an engineer - work 3 jobs and loving it, 2 of which I created. You will be waiting a long time for Jesus to get you a job

Nosea
Forest Grove, OR

VST

I tried to send you some references, but keep getting censored.

On Romney outsourcing jobs to China, just google "Romney outsourcing jobs to China," and you will see plenty hits come up.

bandersen
Saint George, UT

My heart goes out to anyone without work and it is callous for anyone to not express charity for anyone without work. The problem I have is with those who believe that Socialism is the answer for unemployment or government answers for those who are unemployed. I'm quite baffled at the ignorance that people exhibit about the benefits of a free people. If they only realized that the government involvement in everything from minimum wage laws to federal taxes is destructive of free creative people. It is not a zero sum game, something for which progressives are prone to view the world. Sustainable growth, zero population, abortion, Climate change, etc., etc. It goes on ad infinitum. When enough people understand freedom, job opportunities will return. Please pass the word.

moniker lewinsky
Taylorsville, UT

May it please the moderators:
Uh...Yeah. Saying that SLC is almost as awesome as Denmark is not necessarily the best way to make a point. And the Bible Belt is nowhere nearly as fawesome. I will add this to my list of Des News sources that provide "evidence" of how much better off religious people are in every way, shape, and form.

Semper Fi
Bakersfield, CA

What an entertaining post board. I actually turned off the TV and had to run get my Depends!

All the best to dimelo and others struggling. It is disheartening, especially after all the education cost and effort. Two of my five kids had to struggle with unemployment for a year or so, after upward mobility induced them to get their MBA. Now they have student loans to pay off, and they would have been better off remaining in their good jobs, sans the masters... But they went after their dream all the same.

Now tell me why my Norwegian cousins live in one of the highest good economic countries, pay 50% in taxes, and have a state-religion/ but are not a very little religious folk?

The math don't add up...

downtown424
CHICAGO, IL

Once again, this is shallow analysis.

If we're to believe that organized religion is the key competent, why are so many european countries doing so well at class mobility, despite being comparatively irreligious? Furthermore, why are some of the least mobile states in the US in the deep south, which is exceptionally religious?

Mormonism unquestionably plays a large role in SLC's success. I think a major part of that is the geographic focus of our congregations. Rich and poor members are not segregated nearly to the extent that you'll find in other denominations. Your ward will not be exclusively rich or poor people, etc. SLC's demographics and history also make this easier, compared to a place like Atlanta, or Chicago.

Shrugging this off as "well, if only more people went to church!" completely lets the massive political and societal circumstances for these inequalities off the hook. It's irresponsible, and it isn't factually correct.

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