Comments about ‘Howard Dean promotes voter registration to build Democratic Party in Utah’

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Published: Monday, Aug. 19 2013 10:08 p.m. MDT

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morpunkt
Glendora, CA

@redshirt1701
If you knew what it's like to have a permanently handicapped child and hope to get compassionate service on a needed consistent basis, you would find out that even the most committed home teachers could never do a fraction of what is needed, to keep your marriage sane. (And nobody should expect them to.) That is the reason for my first comment.

Lightbearer
Brigham City, UT

Re: "Can you name a time when Christ or any prophet from the OT ever told people to petition the government for assistance?"

Can you name a time when they said not to?

Since you mention the OT:

Leviticus: "And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field ... And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather every grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger." - Deuteronomy: "When thou cuttest down thine harvest in thy field, and hast forgot a sheaf in the field, thou shalt not go again to fetch it: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow ... When thou beatest thine olive tree, thou shalt not go over the boughs again: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow."

Didn't these laws force the owners of the fields, the vineyards, and the olive orchards to be charitable? Didn't this "forced charity" rob the owners of the extra profit they could have made from the unreaped corners, the sheaves in the fields, the ungathered grapes, and the unplucked olives?

Samson01
S. Jordan, UT

Re:morpunkt

Your case is one that no political party or ideology would argue with. There clearly is a line, which when crossed, society needs to assist. Utah is a Republican dominated state and yet we have public assistance programs. Some of them quite expensive. We also have huge private assistance programs. No one party has the corner on compassion.

The differences come to play when we attempt to draw that line. What is the appropriate amount of unemployment benefits to give? One week? two weeks? 99 weeks? No one is arguing about the benefit. It is an insurance policy that is bought and paid for. The problem arises when the benefits derived far outweigh the investment. One party may call upon the collective to make up the difference and the other may not. Where is the line? Does a society have an obligation to make you whole when a life misfortune happens?

The benefits you and your child are provided...Do those benefits go beyond the bare necessity? Well...there might be some disagreement as to what constitutes a necessity.

Isn't that a fair discussion to have?

Redshirt1701
Deep Space 9, Ut

To "morpunkt" it is a sad life you have. The bigger question is that knowing that you are an LDS member, why do you feel that it is ok to force others to help you through government programs. What that means is that through the government programs that you love, the government has to raise taxes on everybody to pay for your care. Isn't the use of force to compel somebody to be good against the principels of the LDS teachings?

To "Lightbearer" the Apostle Timothy did preach that the government was not a source of assistance. See 1 Timothy 5:8 "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."

If you look at the teachings of Jesus in the NT, he continually tells people to help their neighbor directly. He doesn't tell his followers to just donate some money or food and call it a day. Looking at the story of the rich young man, the young man was told to give his money to the poor, not the government.

The Real Maverick
Orem, UT

I don't see President Monson being comfortable in a meeting with a party which attacks and degrades women, debates whether rape is legitimate or not, or worships a cigar-smoking loudmouth on AM radio. I don't see President Monson agreeing much with folks who wish to "shut down the government", attack folks on food stamps (yet extend subsidizes to big agriculture), and who wish to deny health care to millions of Americans. I don't see President Monson saying racist things about Mr. Gill or Obama, laughing at a rodeo clown with our President's face on it, or supporting wars and torture of foreigners. In fact, the GOP has even gone against the official stance of the LDS church on the issue of immigration.

Even the GOP's stance on abortion disagrees with the LDS church's stance. Abortion shouldn't be abolished. Even the LDS Church believes that abortion may be used in some cases.

literally, the only stance that the LDS Church and GOP have in common is the marriage issue. All the rest?

The GOP has never been further away from the teachings of the church.

HaHaHaHa
Othello, WA

Oh Oh, please let me hit this nice fat softball out of the park. Always happy to help out our peaceable, loving democrat friends, with their future prospects, just like they're always willing to help us.

I know I'm not from Utah, but this issue has a national view. First thing you can do, is ALWAYS send Howard Dean to whip up your leftist support. That guy is a national treasure....for the GOP. Kind of reminds you of that good ole boy Joe Biden. Second thing to do, as referred to earlier, bust out and even make a big printing order for the "Proclamation to the World" LDS document, whose teachings and claims line up so nicely with DNC national policy and platforms. So many impressionable LDS members here, who are looking for that kind of guidance. Third item, (will lump a bunch together to save time and words) exercise more leftist/democrat thinking, by raising taxes for schools, so you can go from 24th in national performance to 27th. Confiscate more private land in the name of environmentalism and left wing geniuses like Robert Redford! I could go on, but this is a good start.

patriot
Cedar Hills, UT

promotes voter registration? This sounds to me like code words for voter fraud and that would be consistent with what the democrats do in other states. In other words seek out illegals and register them ....register dead people .... basically everything ACORN was doing. You can bet that the democrats will be focusing also on the college campus's (not BYU) to attempt to draw in the gullible young college kids to socialism. Does it sound like I think Howard Dean is a low life scum bag socialist progressive?? I do.

VA Saint
Chester, VA

Funny what Dean said. After the last Democratic Convention where God was booed, I'm almost insulted at his comment about Latter-day Saints being Democrat.

CHS 85
Sandy, UT

Maybe they should have had their event at the Alta Club and invited only the chosen, selected few to attend.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@Redshirt1701
I'd rather vote for a gov't system to help with something that individuals are unwilling to do adequately on their own.

@Mountanman
Businesses create dependence by providing inadequate wages. Walmart's great at this, paying employees so little they still qualify for food stamps... which tend to get spent at Walmart. Whether people are getting aid from gov't or charities doesn't change the idea that they're still dependent on something.

@zoar63
"in accordance with free agency."

Free agency is what leads to working conditions in the 1800s. A time with no weekends, no 40 hour workweeks, no benefits, no minimum wage, no occupational safety standards, even slavery. Then we regulated things. The free agency system just doesn't work so well sometimes...

Besides, you all want to ban abortion, marijuana (maybe alcohol too), gay marriage, and justified Romneycare mandates because it was state level. Not exactly consistent on the agency thing.

@all three of you
People have different views over how to go about achieving moral (and Biblical) principles. It's not like there's any shortage of different views of the Bible, we have 100+ denominations I would think.

Lightbearer
Brigham City, UT

Re: "No, they're not selling their principles to save tax dollars. They're simply deciding not to use their positions as leverage to further their political beliefs."

So when they say, "Principles compatible with the gospel are found in the platforms of all major political parties," they don't really mean it?

Are we to understand that the statement "Principles compatible with the gospel are found in the platforms of all major political parties" is actually a kind of secret code for "Everybody knows that the Republican party is the only American party whose platform is compatible with the gospel, but discretion dictates that we don't come right out and say it, because, although we're not really impartial, we have various motives for wanting to preserve at least the appearance of impartiality"?

If that's the case, then "Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me."

morpunkt
Glendora, CA

@redshirt1701
I see. You feel my cause is just. But, you just don't want to pay for it. Got it.

morpunkt
Glendora, CA

@atl134
Thank you. I couldn't have said it any better.

Redshirt1701
Deep Space 9, Ut

To "morpunkt" my spouse and I have helped many people in your situation. Don't you go lecturing me about what I do and don't do. My spouse worked for several months for free helping a neighbor clean offices so that they could live a more sane life and pay for medical bills. I recently spent a day chopping down trees for a retired neighbor because their children are unwilling to help.

You are the one who is on record as stating that you want to force others to pay for your needs and care for you.

The question still stands. How do you reconcile your beliefs in the LDS church with your desire to force others to do good?

Samson01
S. Jordan, UT

"Businesses create dependence by providing inadequate wages"

This is where a huge line of disagreement is for me and some of the people on this forum.

Labor is the ultimate free market experience.

A laborer brings to the market a skill set. The skill set has a value based on several factors. The ROI on the laborer's applied skills and the going market rate as determined by supply and demand, among other factors. The compensation will be capped at the lowest possible level that allows procurement.

When we shop for a hammer. We look at what the hammer brings to us in terms of value and find the cheapest one adequate to the need. If I am a casual sporadic user, a cheap knock-off type hammer will do. If I am a professional framer, I will spend considerably more. The labor market works like this.

Walmart workers are simply in a market flooded with individuals that can fulfill the function required. The skill set is common. There is little in the way of advanced, more uncommon skills needed. I have seen that Walmart employs people that may have difficulty getting work elsewhere.

lost in DC
West Jordan, UT

Maverick,
I don’t see you imaging Pres. Monson on anything.
But then, you think 43% is a majority

Morpunkt,
I have no problem with society helping with you child, but you cannot tell the millions BO has added to the foodstamp rolls are severely handicapped. You cannot tell me the millions he tells to go ahead and not work for a seemingly unending period and we’ll continue to provide unemployment compensation are severely handicapped. You cannot tell me the overall government dependency he advocates is because we are all severely handicapped. Well, maybe on the last one you can, since we re-elected him.

atl134
Walmart pays MUCH higher wages in ND because they have to in order to attract employees; BO has made low wages standard in many parts of the country with his disastrous economic policies. the major areas of job growth under BO have been in low-end and part-time jobs

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "Scoundrel" Megan McCain and Abby Huntsman are what is wrong with the GOP. They represent just a moderate version of the Democrats. They are taking us down the same path, just at a slower pace. If you look at the races where Republicans have had large margins over Democrats, they have been by Republicans that are not just moderate liberals. The big wins have come from highly conservative canidates.

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