Quantcast
Utah

Howard Dean promotes voter registration to build Democratic Party in Utah

Comments

Return To Article
  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Aug. 22, 2013 7:54 a.m.

    To "Scoundrel" Megan McCain and Abby Huntsman are what is wrong with the GOP. They represent just a moderate version of the Democrats. They are taking us down the same path, just at a slower pace. If you look at the races where Republicans have had large margins over Democrats, they have been by Republicans that are not just moderate liberals. The big wins have come from highly conservative canidates.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Aug. 21, 2013 10:19 a.m.

    Maverick,
    I don’t see you imaging Pres. Monson on anything.
    But then, you think 43% is a majority

    Morpunkt,
    I have no problem with society helping with you child, but you cannot tell the millions BO has added to the foodstamp rolls are severely handicapped. You cannot tell me the millions he tells to go ahead and not work for a seemingly unending period and we’ll continue to provide unemployment compensation are severely handicapped. You cannot tell me the overall government dependency he advocates is because we are all severely handicapped. Well, maybe on the last one you can, since we re-elected him.

    atl134
    Walmart pays MUCH higher wages in ND because they have to in order to attract employees; BO has made low wages standard in many parts of the country with his disastrous economic policies. the major areas of job growth under BO have been in low-end and part-time jobs

  • Samson01 S. Jordan, UT
    Aug. 21, 2013 9:50 a.m.

    "Businesses create dependence by providing inadequate wages"

    This is where a huge line of disagreement is for me and some of the people on this forum.

    Labor is the ultimate free market experience.

    A laborer brings to the market a skill set. The skill set has a value based on several factors. The ROI on the laborer's applied skills and the going market rate as determined by supply and demand, among other factors. The compensation will be capped at the lowest possible level that allows procurement.

    When we shop for a hammer. We look at what the hammer brings to us in terms of value and find the cheapest one adequate to the need. If I am a casual sporadic user, a cheap knock-off type hammer will do. If I am a professional framer, I will spend considerably more. The labor market works like this.

    Walmart workers are simply in a market flooded with individuals that can fulfill the function required. The skill set is common. There is little in the way of advanced, more uncommon skills needed. I have seen that Walmart employs people that may have difficulty getting work elsewhere.

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Aug. 21, 2013 7:05 a.m.

    To "morpunkt" my spouse and I have helped many people in your situation. Don't you go lecturing me about what I do and don't do. My spouse worked for several months for free helping a neighbor clean offices so that they could live a more sane life and pay for medical bills. I recently spent a day chopping down trees for a retired neighbor because their children are unwilling to help.

    You are the one who is on record as stating that you want to force others to pay for your needs and care for you.

    The question still stands. How do you reconcile your beliefs in the LDS church with your desire to force others to do good?

  • morpunkt Glendora, CA
    Aug. 20, 2013 5:52 p.m.

    @atl134
    Thank you. I couldn't have said it any better.

  • morpunkt Glendora, CA
    Aug. 20, 2013 5:47 p.m.

    @redshirt1701
    I see. You feel my cause is just. But, you just don't want to pay for it. Got it.

  • Lightbearer Brigham City, UT
    Aug. 20, 2013 5:20 p.m.

    Re: "No, they're not selling their principles to save tax dollars. They're simply deciding not to use their positions as leverage to further their political beliefs."

    So when they say, "Principles compatible with the gospel are found in the platforms of all major political parties," they don't really mean it?

    Are we to understand that the statement "Principles compatible with the gospel are found in the platforms of all major political parties" is actually a kind of secret code for "Everybody knows that the Republican party is the only American party whose platform is compatible with the gospel, but discretion dictates that we don't come right out and say it, because, although we're not really impartial, we have various motives for wanting to preserve at least the appearance of impartiality"?

    If that's the case, then "Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me."

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 20, 2013 4:55 p.m.

    @Redshirt1701
    I'd rather vote for a gov't system to help with something that individuals are unwilling to do adequately on their own.

    @Mountanman
    Businesses create dependence by providing inadequate wages. Walmart's great at this, paying employees so little they still qualify for food stamps... which tend to get spent at Walmart. Whether people are getting aid from gov't or charities doesn't change the idea that they're still dependent on something.

    @zoar63
    "in accordance with free agency."

    Free agency is what leads to working conditions in the 1800s. A time with no weekends, no 40 hour workweeks, no benefits, no minimum wage, no occupational safety standards, even slavery. Then we regulated things. The free agency system just doesn't work so well sometimes...

    Besides, you all want to ban abortion, marijuana (maybe alcohol too), gay marriage, and justified Romneycare mandates because it was state level. Not exactly consistent on the agency thing.

    @all three of you
    People have different views over how to go about achieving moral (and Biblical) principles. It's not like there's any shortage of different views of the Bible, we have 100+ denominations I would think.

  • CHS 85 Sandy, UT
    Aug. 20, 2013 4:47 p.m.

    Maybe they should have had their event at the Alta Club and invited only the chosen, selected few to attend.

  • VA Saint Chester, VA
    Aug. 20, 2013 4:41 p.m.

    Funny what Dean said. After the last Democratic Convention where God was booed, I'm almost insulted at his comment about Latter-day Saints being Democrat.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Aug. 20, 2013 4:35 p.m.

    promotes voter registration? This sounds to me like code words for voter fraud and that would be consistent with what the democrats do in other states. In other words seek out illegals and register them ....register dead people .... basically everything ACORN was doing. You can bet that the democrats will be focusing also on the college campus's (not BYU) to attempt to draw in the gullible young college kids to socialism. Does it sound like I think Howard Dean is a low life scum bag socialist progressive?? I do.

  • HaHaHaHa Othello, WA
    Aug. 20, 2013 3:19 p.m.

    Oh Oh, please let me hit this nice fat softball out of the park. Always happy to help out our peaceable, loving democrat friends, with their future prospects, just like they're always willing to help us.

    I know I'm not from Utah, but this issue has a national view. First thing you can do, is ALWAYS send Howard Dean to whip up your leftist support. That guy is a national treasure....for the GOP. Kind of reminds you of that good ole boy Joe Biden. Second thing to do, as referred to earlier, bust out and even make a big printing order for the "Proclamation to the World" LDS document, whose teachings and claims line up so nicely with DNC national policy and platforms. So many impressionable LDS members here, who are looking for that kind of guidance. Third item, (will lump a bunch together to save time and words) exercise more leftist/democrat thinking, by raising taxes for schools, so you can go from 24th in national performance to 27th. Confiscate more private land in the name of environmentalism and left wing geniuses like Robert Redford! I could go on, but this is a good start.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Aug. 20, 2013 2:24 p.m.

    I don't see President Monson being comfortable in a meeting with a party which attacks and degrades women, debates whether rape is legitimate or not, or worships a cigar-smoking loudmouth on AM radio. I don't see President Monson agreeing much with folks who wish to "shut down the government", attack folks on food stamps (yet extend subsidizes to big agriculture), and who wish to deny health care to millions of Americans. I don't see President Monson saying racist things about Mr. Gill or Obama, laughing at a rodeo clown with our President's face on it, or supporting wars and torture of foreigners. In fact, the GOP has even gone against the official stance of the LDS church on the issue of immigration.

    Even the GOP's stance on abortion disagrees with the LDS church's stance. Abortion shouldn't be abolished. Even the LDS Church believes that abortion may be used in some cases.

    literally, the only stance that the LDS Church and GOP have in common is the marriage issue. All the rest?

    The GOP has never been further away from the teachings of the church.

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Aug. 20, 2013 2:17 p.m.

    To "morpunkt" it is a sad life you have. The bigger question is that knowing that you are an LDS member, why do you feel that it is ok to force others to help you through government programs. What that means is that through the government programs that you love, the government has to raise taxes on everybody to pay for your care. Isn't the use of force to compel somebody to be good against the principels of the LDS teachings?

    To "Lightbearer" the Apostle Timothy did preach that the government was not a source of assistance. See 1 Timothy 5:8 "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."

    If you look at the teachings of Jesus in the NT, he continually tells people to help their neighbor directly. He doesn't tell his followers to just donate some money or food and call it a day. Looking at the story of the rich young man, the young man was told to give his money to the poor, not the government.

  • Samson01 S. Jordan, UT
    Aug. 20, 2013 1:23 p.m.

    Re:morpunkt

    Your case is one that no political party or ideology would argue with. There clearly is a line, which when crossed, society needs to assist. Utah is a Republican dominated state and yet we have public assistance programs. Some of them quite expensive. We also have huge private assistance programs. No one party has the corner on compassion.

    The differences come to play when we attempt to draw that line. What is the appropriate amount of unemployment benefits to give? One week? two weeks? 99 weeks? No one is arguing about the benefit. It is an insurance policy that is bought and paid for. The problem arises when the benefits derived far outweigh the investment. One party may call upon the collective to make up the difference and the other may not. Where is the line? Does a society have an obligation to make you whole when a life misfortune happens?

    The benefits you and your child are provided...Do those benefits go beyond the bare necessity? Well...there might be some disagreement as to what constitutes a necessity.

    Isn't that a fair discussion to have?

  • Lightbearer Brigham City, UT
    Aug. 20, 2013 1:09 p.m.

    Re: "Can you name a time when Christ or any prophet from the OT ever told people to petition the government for assistance?"

    Can you name a time when they said not to?

    Since you mention the OT:

    Leviticus: "And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field ... And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather every grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger." - Deuteronomy: "When thou cuttest down thine harvest in thy field, and hast forgot a sheaf in the field, thou shalt not go again to fetch it: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow ... When thou beatest thine olive tree, thou shalt not go over the boughs again: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow."

    Didn't these laws force the owners of the fields, the vineyards, and the olive orchards to be charitable? Didn't this "forced charity" rob the owners of the extra profit they could have made from the unreaped corners, the sheaves in the fields, the ungathered grapes, and the unplucked olives?

  • morpunkt Glendora, CA
    Aug. 20, 2013 12:43 p.m.

    @redshirt1701
    If you knew what it's like to have a permanently handicapped child and hope to get compassionate service on a needed consistent basis, you would find out that even the most committed home teachers could never do a fraction of what is needed, to keep your marriage sane. (And nobody should expect them to.) That is the reason for my first comment.

  • zoar63 Mesa, AZ
    Aug. 20, 2013 12:13 p.m.

    @atl134

    "A party that believes in taking care of the poor, the sick, the elderly, is entirely consistent with Biblical teachings"

    But they accomplish their purposes by confiscating the wealth of others. Creating taxes to fund social programs is not found in the scriptures. Taking care of the poor, the sick, the elderly has always been voluntary not compulsive, in accordance with free agency.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Aug. 20, 2013 12:12 p.m.

    Re: ". . . faithful members can belong to any political party and still be upholding the values of the Church."

    I not only agree, I'm an illustration of the principle -- an hereditary LDS Democrat, probably since before you were born.

    Now, belonging to a political party, and supporting its views and candidates, are two entirely different matters.

    My Party has not recently, or consistently, earned my vote. Dr. Dean's speech indicates it has no real intent of doing so anytime soon, stressing political tactics and propaganda packaging, over the content of the Party's message.

    Re: "A party that believes in taking care of the poor, the sick, the elderly, is entirely consistent with Biblical teachings."

    No argument there. But, you can't honestly be suggesting that party is the Democratic Party. Or Republicans, though small-government Republicanism has a greater chance than Democrat socialism.

    Nothing in the last 100 years has been more corrosive of essential American freedoms, prosperity, aspirations, faith, decency, honesty, or happiness, than socialistic Democrat political positions and tactics.

    Notwithstanding, we live in hope!

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Aug. 20, 2013 12:00 p.m.

    To "atl134" you are only telling a half truth. Is a political party that believes that other people should care for the poor, sick, and elderly consistent with Biblical teachings?

    Can you name a time when Christ or any prophet from the OT ever told people to petition the government for assistance?

    Christ taught that you as an individual must help your neighbor, and that you as an individual should care for the sick and the elderly. Turning that responsibility over to a government official is contrary to Christ's teachings.

  • morganh Orem, Utah
    Aug. 20, 2013 11:58 a.m.

    Howard Dean says, "If you look at the teachings of the LDS Church there is no reason that 98% of them should be voting Republican." I guess Mr. Dean has not read "The Family a Proclamation to the World" recently. I guess he has not paid much attention to General Conference where members are encouraged to be self-reliant. This flies in the face of Pres. Obama's who has swelled the food stamp rolls and believes that more gov't oversight and a bigger gov't and more spending is the correct answer. As an LDS Republican I am happy where I am at and I won't be jumping to the Democratic Party anytime soon.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Aug. 20, 2013 11:53 a.m.

    @ Atl134, Taking care of the poor, the sick or the needy and the elderly! We all agree but creating dependency is NOT consistent with Biblical teachings! That's why the LDS church has a fast offering based welfare system and recipients are required to work for what they receive. Now if the government would do that, much good would be accomplished. Detroit is what we get when Democrats take care of the "poor", the sick and the elderly except they become permanently poor, permanently needy. Some of us can see the difference and some can't or won't!

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 20, 2013 11:44 a.m.

    @procuradorfiscal
    A party that believes in taking care of the poor, the sick, the elderly, is entirely consistent with Biblical teachings.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 20, 2013 11:23 a.m.

    @Samson,

    Some day they may support being fiscally conservative.
    Some day they may support a smaller government.
    Some day they make think ending the life of a baby is wrong.

    But personal responsibility?

    Not going to happen.

  • Samson01 S. Jordan, UT
    Aug. 20, 2013 10:50 a.m.

    I would happily join the Democrat party when they alter their platform to support limited government, conservative fiscal policy, right to life, personal freedom, personal responsibility.

    When that happens Howard, come sign me up!

  • Woody Newbury Park, CA
    Aug. 20, 2013 10:43 a.m.

    I was reading an interesting story about Wilfred Woodruff. It seems that 120 years ago most members were Democrats. That party was slightly more favorable to the Church and Utah Statehood. The Prophet suggested that it would be a good idea that members also join the Republicans. It was clear that until the other party also had a political motive they would oppose any progress.

    Seems like a lot of groups should consider that being a voting block can limit your effectiveness. In cities like Detroit and Chicago, corruption and misgovernment abound. That could change overnight except for partisan block voting.

  • happy2bhere clearfield, UT
    Aug. 20, 2013 10:38 a.m.

    Kalindra

    Boy you sure don't seem to understand the laws about taxes and seperation of church and state. A church has no choice but to keep neutral or they could lose their tax exempt status from the U.S. government. Principles of the leaders of a church have nothing to do with that. Your point seems to be that the LDS Church should go ahead and become political and endorse political parties and candidates, and pay taxes, rather than stay publically neutral in their beliefs and save, as you put it "a few tax dollars". REALLY?

  • samhill Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 20, 2013 10:33 a.m.

    "Nearly 50 people attended Howard Dean's presentation Monday at Salt Lake Community College..." ... "'If you look at teachings of the LDS, there is no reason that 98 percent of them should be voting Republican,' Dean said."

    ---------------

    I've never been a member of either the Republican or Democrat parties and have examined the platforms and voted for candidates of both. I've lived in or been based in Utah for more than 60 years and have extensive exposure to LDS doctrine.

    From that experience I feel comfortable in stating that if the "nearly 50 people" (with that few, why not give an exact number) who attended this "rally" actually think they can persuade people who, ostensibly, believe in the "teachings of the LDS", that those teachings conform to or even tolerate the deeply, one might even say, religious devotion the Democrat Party has for the idea of killing unborn children or the equivalence of traditional and same-sex marriage, he and they are sorely mistaken.

    For example, killing an unborn child simply for being inconvenient and unwanted, the reason for the VAST majority of the killings, will **never** be acceptable by God, and hopefully never by the LDS church.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 20, 2013 10:29 a.m.

    Kalindra,

    No, they're not selling their principles to save tax dollars.

    They're simply deciding not to use their positions as leverage to further their political beliefs.

    Two very different concepts. Hopefully you can understand the difference. But based on your comment, my hope likely won't be fulfilled.

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    Aug. 20, 2013 9:59 a.m.

    Political neutrality of the LDS Church has not always been the case.
    The Brethren didn't much care for FDR and made it known.
    The members were in favor of old age insurance and farmers are generally strong Democrats.
    New IRS rules and a growing church tend to encourage silence from the Brethren.
    Some issues are safe, like MX missiles and nuclear waste.
    But others, like ERA, same-gender marriage, the right to an abortion, amnesty...will have the Church show tolerance rather than activism. These are moral issues with deep doctrinal opposition, but don't expect the Brethren to take a stand.

  • Kalindra Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 20, 2013 9:36 a.m.

    @ happy2bhere: So you think the leaders of the LDS Church are willing to sell their principles to save a few tax dollars? Wow. What an insulting idea.

  • happy2bhere clearfield, UT
    Aug. 20, 2013 9:12 a.m.

    Maudine

    I believe that the offical non partisan position of the LDS Church, as well as most any other tax exempt religious organization, has to be that way. If the Church were ever to be seen as a partisan tool, the tax exempt status could be in jeopardy. That's why the meeting houses cannot be used for any partisan politics. However, ask yourself. If President Monson, or any other President of the Church were to attend the political conventions of both the Republican and Democrat parties, which one do you feel he would be most comfortable at? I have no doubt that the Democrat convention platform would have much more in it that goes against basic LDS values than the Republican one would. OK let the battle begin posters.

  • Mike in Sandy Sandy, UT
    Aug. 20, 2013 7:37 a.m.

    Good. There is lots of griping and posturing about this politician, that legislator....
    don't gripe..VOTE

  • morpunkt Glendora, CA
    Aug. 20, 2013 7:23 a.m.

    I thank Heavenly Father that I have the state assistance for my severely handicapped son, here in California. Thanks to the Democratic Party. And I consider myself very conservative.

  • My2Cents Taylorsville, UT
    Aug. 20, 2013 3:29 a.m.

    I support that all citizens of Utah to register and vote, we need everyone involved to stop government carnage and expansion to deny us our country and our rights and our liberties.

    To register you do not have to commit to party affiliation, and its a lie for anyone to say you should. Remain open and use common sense and thought and foremost do read the Constitution in its entirety, its amendments, and the Bill of Rights, every thing you need to know about government and who is in control is in those documents. Any contradictions are a no go legislation.

    To preserve this country and our culture and unity I urge people to register but claim no political affiliation and be an informed voter read all information and pay attention to what is not said and question everything.

    The democrats and Republican are the enemy of this country hoping to bend minds and ideas to conform to government control. Remember, we the people are the governemnt and politicians will come and go but our democratic republic will last forever if we choose to keep it out of the hands of politicians. The power is ours to keep or loose.

  • Maudine SLC, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 11:23 p.m.

    @ procurator: The leadership of the LDS Church has stated - publicly and frequently - that no one party represents perfectly the ideals of the Church and that faithful members can belong to any political party and still be upholding the values of the Church.

    Do you disagree with the official position?

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 10:58 p.m.

    Re: "'I'm here to ask you to go out and to make this work,' Dean told the small but energetic group."

    Note the word "small." It certainly denotes the level of interest in Democrat politics here. It also wildly overstates the chances of making national Democrat politics work for Utah.

    And, Dean, Dabakis, and their socialist ilk are clearly committed to doing their level best to assure that will forever be the adjective used to describe our party in Utah.

    Real people want more than cynical political snake oil, more than disingenuously allegations of a false compatibility between Church doctrine and the national Democratic platform.

    What we want is actual compatibility. Which we'll never find among the tenets of the national party.

    So, you can waste our time and money on the likes of Howard Dean 'til the cows come home. They'll be there a long, long time before real Utahns.