Wow... If this article doesn't bring out the little brother syndrome from
Ute county, er, uhm, I mean Ute nation, I don't know what will... Great
article, but this is sure to rub a few inferiority complexes around here the
wrong way.Great commentary! Queue the angry Ute trolls in
Blast Off!Typical byu...Living in the past.
Again I ask you this: If independence is where it's at, why isn't
BYU is on its way to a fun year, but they are not being smart if they think they
can go through this schedule undefeated.
Brave Sir Robin: because they have a regional fan base. Independence fits BYU
nicely... Not all colleges are the same.
"Not to make this a comparison between BYU and the University of Utah, but
since Edwards retired in 2000, BYU has finished ranked in the Top 25 six times.
That’s only one less ranked finish than Utah has in its entire
history."I would like to dedicate this quote to Chris B.Dear Brave Sir Robin,Alabama is not an independent because
they do not have a national following. Religion allows BYU and Notre Dame to go
independent. The Military academies can also go independent because of a built
in national following from our vets. No institution not connected to an
organization that knows no boundaries could possibly go independent.Dear ekute,BYU's future looks pretty bright. This football
team should be significantly better than last years. The basketball team has an
amazing future in the pipeline with Lone Peak stars in the pipeline.
"and it’s easy to see why the Cougar faithful are feeling optimistic
about the direction of the program."This seems just a tad
suspect to me. Bronco fired his entire offensive staff from last season. And if
the Cougars lose to the Utes again, well...Maybe I'm wrong, but
I think this is a make it or break year for the Cougs. If they don't win at
least 2 of the marquee match-ups this season (including the Utes), I would be
concerned about the long-term viability of independence. Merely
playing BCS teams doesn't garner respect IMO.
ekuteLayton, UT"Typical byu...Living in the past."Where do Utes live?
Y Grad / Y Dad,In the PAC12.
This article is spot on. As a Cougar fan what will help BYU more than anything
will be to win games. If they win, recruiting will take care of itself and BYU
will gain national attention. This article also shows what I've been
telling Ute fans for years, BYU is still and will always be the alpha dog
program in the state of Utah. BYU is a rib-eye and Utah is a tube steak. If you
take these last 13 years in perspective, BYU has had (for BYU standards) a
relatively average 13 years. Utah on the other hand is in their "golden
age". BYU has still been ranked in the top 25 more than Utah has. Don't
give me strength of schedule crap either, BYU has not ended in the top 25 in
their first 2 years of independence. They did this while in the same conference
as Utah was in. Reality can be hard to swallow for some Ute fans.
In the hours to come...ute trolls will flock to this article to
remind BYU fans that they are better, belong to a "big boy" conference,
and have beaten BYU three times.Yet not once, will the ute trolls
accept any part of this article, even though it has all been said on these
boards a hundred times...BYU is better in every way but one. the u
beat BYU last year.In a few weeks, you won't have that any more
either.So give it all you got...it will be over soon and
you won't have anything to lord over BYU fans.
BYU has the perfect line-up of soft/medium soft then hard opponents that the
team will hopefully handle the schedule well. I fully expect a national
ranking, two wins over the big four on the schedule (ND, WI, Boise and Texas),
finally beating the pesky Utes and a bowl win. 11-2 should be top 15 this year
and good enough to build 2014 into a serious run at making the playoffs. If BYU
manages 13-0, which is highly improbable, it might be enough to get to the
championship this year.How I rank the games in order of difficulty.
Utah is sixth most difficult because USU is on the road and the first four teams
are likely ranked when BYU plays them.1 Wisconsin2 ND3
Texas4 Boise State5 USU6 Utah7 Virginia8 Georgia
Tech9 Middle TN State10 Nevada11 Houston12 Idaho
StateBYU has byes before Utah and Wisconsin. They play Idaho State
before ND. Boise State and Texas are the only highly difficult game that BYU
won't have extra time to prepare for. I love Independence scheduling!!
Can't wait to see the uptempo offense!
@STuFOO no we won't remind you that we have beaten you three times,
we'll remind you we've won 8 of the last 11. No question
byu was the dominant team of the 80s and 90s and had a great run. If not, it
wouldn't have felt so good for us utes to finally have our turn to dominate
our rival for the last decade. We'll see what the next decade
brings. Both teams are at pivotal moments. They have chances to take big steps
forward or big steps backwards. Truth be told, the last couple years have just
shed light on the fact that both programs' success and accolades were
inflated by weak schedules. It will be exciting to see if either team can take
the step to truly join the nations' elite programs.
ekute,At the *bottom* of the pac12. Fixed that for you.
"we won't remind you that we have beaten you three times, we'll
remind you we've won 8 of the last 11."I guess you have to
hang on to whatever stat works for you. The BYU/Utah game is fun, but only one
game a year at most.What works for me is if it was a choice of
beating the utes or going to a bowl game, I would choose bowling every time!
Last EIGHT years in a row! Go Cougars!
As a BYU fan I'm trilled to see Utah do well, especially since their
promotion. A good performance By Utah is good for BYU. I must say independence
concerns me a little because of conference realignments that might forever box
BYU out. But, when Utah left the MWC BYU didn't have a choice and it seems
that it is heading in a good direction. So for now, I'm happy to see BYU
in a tough schedule and hope they are the real deal this year.
ekute In the PAC12.------------------Every Home
needs a doormat.
@kralon I agree with you, I would take bowl game as well as that is more of a
reflection of the season as a whole; however, I don't think anyone would
question the fact that if utah would have had byu's schedule they would
have been in a bowl game last year and if byu had utah's schedule they
would have been 5-7 or worse. If both teams had been in the mwc, they would have
won 9 or 10 games. For the first time in their histories, the teams are finally
playing respectable schedules, it will be interesting to see how they handle it.
If I were a byu fan I would not be super optimistic, seeing how utah has
struggled and knowing that utah has had the better program recently. That being said byu still has 4 or 5 built in wins this year, and while much
is being made of their schedule it is still average when compared to other bcs
teams, so going to a bowl game won't be a problem. For utah it could be
tough. 9 of their 12 opponents are ranked or received votes in the ap poll.
Earth to everyone, winning games in sports IS WHAT MATTERS? That is why this is
such a ridiculous article, all he is doing is stating a given fact and using it
for BYU. Same article could have been written for Utah, or almost any other
team in the NCAA. Cookie cutter article with no insight...
If being in a conference is so great then why doesn't Notre Dame play
football in a conference?I love our independence. I love traveling
to different places each year, seeing different stadiums, eating at different
restaurants and playing at different golf courses while I'm there.I do not however love the WCC - can't wait until we can get out of there.
Let's hope the Big 12 eventually invites us - you can still play golf in
December in Texas:)
Patting yourself on the back for an end-of-season top 25 ranking means you are
fooling yourself about your football program. For an accurate assessment, look
at the last poll of the regular season. That is the poll which determines if
you go to a BCS bowl or participate in next year's playoff. In the modern
era of football (that's 1998, not 1950), anything beyond the top 16 is
The RockFederal Way, WA said:"Dear Brave Sir Robin,Alabama is not an independent because they do not have a national
following. Religion allows BYU and Notre Dame to go independent. The Military
academies can also go independent because of a built in national following from
our vets. No institution not connected to an organization that knows no
boundaries could possibly go independent."National following has
nothing to do with being independent. Just ask Idaho, New Mexico State and Old
Dominion. If you take TV viewers by game. There are 42 schools with a higher
national following than BYU.Any time a school wins a national
football title, it becomes a national following. Don't believe me? just
look at the SEC. And also look at merchandise sales. BYU is not even on the
radar compared to schools like Texas, Ohio St, Duke, USC, Michigan, Alabama and
Kind of funny that Utes still talk about bowls and being in the PAC 12
Conference. They won't see any bowls because every school still has to
earn it and not every PAC 12 school will qualify. Remember, Utah was picked 5th
of 6 teams in their division....some great honor!Basement Dwellers
scream the loudest about the bowls their conference plays even though they stay
home and watch on TV.LOL!!
BYU football independence is great, and BYU just needs to win now.Most BYU fans feel that the West Coast Conference is an embarrassment and
obviously inferior to the Mountain West Conference though (only basketball
matters). I want to the LMU vs BYU game in Los Angeles while on business last
season. The "gym" was empty, and felt like attending a bottom tier
high school game. It would be nice if BYU basketball was in a decent
conference....but I guess that is the price of independence. Gonzaga fans
I've spoke with said they wish they too were out of the WCC.
"regarded by many as a major program in terms of prestige and reputation but
connected at the hip to a mid-major conference"BYU still has
that with basketball. We are a major program, connected to the hip of the West
@ ManInTheMiddle"If being in a conference is so great then why
doesn't Notre Dame play football in a conference?"Maybe
because Notre Dame has been independent since the beginning of their football
history and that's their tradition! BYU doesn't have a history of
being independent, the Cougies decided a couple years ago they wanted to be like
Notre Dame aka "Notre Dame of the west". Notre Dame doesn't want to
join a conference because they will get the same benefits as being in a BCS
conference. Plus they want to stay with their tradition. BYU does NOT have those
same benefits! The Cougies will still be treated as a mid-major school as an
"Same article could have been written for Utah, or almost any other team in
the NCAA. Cookie cutter article with no insight.."Really? For
instance, how many teams won 22 conference championships from 1974 through 2010
(BYU's last conference season)? Oh wait, no one else in the entire nation
which is the whole point that WAC and MWC championships did not mean as much to
BYU. It was time to move on and BYU had talked about turning independent for at
least a few years. How many other teams in the nation had reached a point where
a conference championship had so little meaning?BYU now has a much
better game schedule and the article is spot on that now BYU needs to win more
games (I will admit that is something that could be written about Utah!).
@ djcoug"At the *bottom* of the pac12. Fixed that for
you"Being in the "bottom of the Pac-12" is still better
than being "lost in independence". BYU as an independent is
like a ship without a rudder. The Cougies will load up their schedules with BCS
schools. But no matter how many games they win (6, 8, 10, 11 games) they'll
wind up in the same place every year (irrelevant third tier bowl games).Utah in the Pac-12 can play for something far beyond what BYU can even
dream of as an independent (Rose Bowl, National Championships, ect). But to get
there, Utah has to win their conference which is a tough task for anyone in a
BCS conference. But the team that does win it's conference is rewarded
greatly! Utah will get there one day!
Poll's are a measure of overall success. During the BCS era, yes your team
needed to be in the top 16. But I would still rather be 25 then 50 or 120. I
also like the idea of playing anybody, anywhere and let the chips fall where
they may. If I were a betting man, the chances of the Cougars going to a big
bowl in the new system are better than the Utes chances. Neither are good, but
BYU in the next 10 years has about a 1% chance of making it, while Utah will
have maybe a .1%. Utah has to win the South division (once every 8 years tops,
see WSU, ASU, Cal, OSU, AZ), then beat the champ of the North division (once
maybe every other time in the Pac 12 championship game at best). That is once
every 16 years. BYU would have a couple of good teams during that time. Simple
math for Utah. If your name is not UW, OU, Stanford, USC or UCLA, chances of
winning Pac 12 are slim!
@ Steven S. JarvisI respect your opinion on how you ranked
BYU's schedule this year. Here's how I ranked Utah's games
according to toughness and importance!1. Oregon2. Stanford3. USC4. Arizona State5. Arizona6. UCLA7. Oregon
State8. Colorado9. Washington State10. Utah State11.
BYU12. Weber State I ranked this because Utah has 9 games
(conference games) which are far more important than non-conference games. I
ranked USU ahead of BYU because the Aggies beat us last year and it's
payback. BYU is below the Aggies because the Utes seem to beat BYU every year.
Weber State is at the bottom for obvious reasons.
There's always a lot of hope this time of year (but to be fair, it's
the same for every team). I only use one success measure for BYU: to go to and
win a BCS bowl. Utah, TCU and Boise State have done it each two times. Until we
do that, it's all talk. Sure, it would be nice to beat Utah (actually, to
annihilate them) but we have to put a whole season together. If we can just get
an offense to match the kind of defense we had last year, I think we could make
ekute "Typical byu...Living in the past."
Where do Utes live? Y Grad / Y Dad, "In the PAC12."Let me add..... In the basement of
@sweetnewss - I agree that the next couple of years are pivotal for both BYU and
Utah, but to call this years schedule average versus a BCS schedule is not
accurate. I don't think independence is where it's at
long term, but I do think it's much better than being in the MWC. If BYU
pulls off a 10+ win season this year or next (more likely next year), the
interest from the Big12 will increase. The Big12 will eventually go back to 12
teams. There's too much money in a Big12 championship game not to. BYU
should be well positioned to get one of those invites.In addition to
a boat load of money, PAC membership has given Utah a recruiting advantage. But
if Utah is sub 500 this year and next (which I see as likely), the recruiting
advantage will dry up. U will get the reputation as a losing team. Does
Washington St have a recruiting advantage over Boise St? Top athletes would
much rather play for BSU.Go Cougs! And good luck Utes in every game
except against BYU and USU.
@sweetnewss "I don't think anyone would question the fact that if utah
would have had byu's schedule they would have been in a bowl game last year
and if byu had utah's schedule they would have been 5-7 or worse."I would question it. Last year four of BYU's five losses were to
teams that finished the season ranked in the top 25, while five of Utah's
seven losses were to unranked teams.In two years of membership in
the vaunted PAC 12 conference, Utah has played a total of two games against PAC
12 opponents who were ranked in the top 25 at the end of the year.
ekuteTypical Utah... whining about the past, because the Utes have
none - only a brief two-blip history that ended almost as quickly as it
began.And your future? The annual pillow fight in the rockies to
determine the PAC south basement dweller.
SoonerUteOnly a Utah fan would see qualifying for a bcs bowl,
instead of winning a national championship, as the pinnacle of college football
achievement.The truth is, except for winning a national
championship, the final poll is the ONLY poll that matters.AP Top 25
FinishesBYU 17Utah 5At Utah's current rate of 1 Top
25 finish every 13 years, it'll take the Utes another century and a half
just reach the 17 AP Top 25 finishes BYU has already achieved.
We ARE the nationals elite! Wins don't matter as much as we are elite.
SoonerUte"Patting yourself on the back for an end-of-season top
25 ranking means you are fooling yourself about your football program."Typical, desperate spin from a program that only has FIVE AP Top 25
finishes in their entire history to pat themselves on the back for.Not surprising for a team that didn't even crack the AP Top 25 until
1994, more than a hundred years after U started playing football.
@JoeWatIII"Earth to everyone, winning games in sports IS WHAT
MATTERS? That is why this is such a ridiculous article, all he is doing is
stating a given fact and using it for BYU. Same article could have been written
for Utah, or almost any other team in the NCAA. Cookie cutter article with no
insight..."_____________You missed the point, Joe.
Remember that 1st year in the PAC when the utes had a VERY pedestrian season,
yet ALL of the stars had aligned and it came down to the last week of the season
all they had to do was beat CU and they were Rose Bowl-bound? THAT is the
point. As referenced in the article, no more 6-6 seasons resulting in a bowl
game and a conference championship and proclaiming it a "successful"
season. Without a conference, wins are the only measuring stick....
You don't need to win to be elite. Look at BYU. We rarely beat anyone of
significance and we are the most Elite.
@Kralon..."I guess you have to hang on to whatever stat works for you. The
BYU/Utah game is fun, but only one game a year at most.What works
for me is if it was a choice of beating the utes or going to a bowl game, I
would choose bowling every time! Last EIGHT years in a row! Go Cougars!"LOL....You and cougie fan's never use stats that only make the
cougies look good do you. What works for me is undefeated seasons
and BCS win's. In the last decade utah has done this twice the cougies have
never been close. They have quested several times to match their big brother
Hey, E Fudd, they're still saying that in Arizona "...We'll get
there one day." LOL!!How many times have Arizona and Arizona
State, the mighty schools that jumped from the WAC to the then PAC 8 to form the
mighty PAC 10 been to the Rose Bowl? Your logic is admirable in that you are
cheering for your team but statistics and history don't bode well for the
Utes. Just being a member of the elite PAC Conference of Champions hasn't
rubbed off onto them. I wonder why really good players wouldn't just drool
to get into a "PAC School?"Maybe their recruits that go
somewhere else other than the Arizona schools know something that the Uties have
yet to learn. U always have Colorado (but are only .500 against them, too) to
help grease your way to the Rose Bowl. LOL!!
RE: 2BCSWINS"What works for me is undefeated seasons and BCS
win's. In the last decade utah has done this twice the cougies have never
been close."Huh? I know it was a while ago, but 1984 still
counts (especially when you qualify it with "never"). As far as BCS
wins... an argument can easily be made that we were one win away in 2001, 2006,
2007 and 2009. One game seems close to me.
PACUte_ declares "The truth is, except for winning a national championship,
the final poll is the ONLY poll that matters."The final regular
season poll is all that matters. In basketball terms, finishing in the top 16
is the "Big Dance". Finishing in the top 25 is the same as "making
the NIT". If Bronco was a basketball coach, would Cougar fans be happy if
the best he ever delivered was an NIT invitation? I've often
wondered why BYU has been unable to join 47 other teams in the BCS club. Is it
that fans are resigned to being a BCS outsider, so they consider a top 25 finish
"success"? I notice how quickly you defensively said "Only a Utah
fan..." Maybe that's it. Fans think success is either beating their
in-state rival or going to a bowl game. The coaching staff must know their fans
expectations are relatively low, so they meet those low expectations.Finishing in the top 25 shouldn't be enough for you. At the end of the
regular season, sports shows should be buzzing with the question "does BYU
deserve a BCS bid"? That isn't happening. Demand better.
BYU has a long great tradition of winning, it is expected. The challenge ahead
is huge. Bring it on! Just win baby!
Sambonethegreat: I agree with your assessment -- which is kind of what the
article states. Cougs need to win. Period.
This just in: BYU has denied Texas Lineman Harrison's appeal. This is going
to get ugly with Texas. What happens when an 800 LB gorilla doesn't get his
way...we're about to see. If BYU wants to ever be looked at again by the
Big 12 they need to be seen as being willing to be flexible. I'm pretty
sure the rest of the Big 12 loves watching BYU stick it to Texas, but in the end
does it show that BYU isn't willing to be flexible or accommodating? I
guess we will see. In terms of this article, what more needs to be
said. The kids from the hill will throw a tantrum, and accuse BYU fans of living
in the past. The real question is, who's program appears to have the
brighter future. I think both programs have opportunities to shine...it's
up to them to make the most of those opportunities.
@ Elmer - Does your ranking of the Utes schedule really reflect your perception
of importance and toughness? If U had just said importance, I would have
conceded your opinion. But if you really think it includes toughness, I'd
like to review how you did at the end of the season. As for
importance, it's a matter of opinion. But your opinion is different than
most Ute fans. There was an article in the DNews on May 28 that stated 64% of
Utah fans said beating BYU was more important to them than going to a bowl game.
Meaning, they would put BYU in your #1 spot.
They'd be absolutely right but forgot 1 small detail.The 5
majors conferences need to self-destruct, implode, be obliterated, vanish,
toosmartforyouFarmington, UTHow many times have Arizona and
Arizona State, the mighty schools that jumped from the WAC to the then PAC 8 to
form the mighty PAC 10 been to the Rose Bowl? Your logic is admirable in that
you are cheering for your team but statistics and history don't bode well
for the Utes. Just being a member of the elite PAC Conference of Champions
hasn't rubbed off onto them. I wonder why really good players wouldn't
just drool to get into a "PAC School?"Maybe their recruits
that go somewhere else other than the Arizona schools know something that the
Uties have yet to learn. U always have Colorado (but are only .500 against them,
too) to help grease your way to the Rose Bowl. LOL!!__________Why don't really good players just drool to play for BYU?UT,
AZ, & ASU all have more players in the NFL than BYU does.The
Conference of Champions has rubbed of on them. AZ & ASU have won national
titles in several sports.BYU is 3-8-1 all time against Colorado. What
percentage is that?
To ekute:The utes do not live in the PAC12, they die in the PAC12.
RE: SoonerUte"The final regular season poll is all that matters.
In basketball terms, finishing in the top 16 is the "Big Dance".
Finishing in the top 25 is the same as "making the NIT"."Interesting analogy. So, if football (119 teams) was run like basketball (345
teams) you would have to apply a .188 ratio to the number of football teams,
meaning that the NCAA tournament (65 teams) would be the equivalent of the top
22 pre-bowl teams. That means that all-time...BYU: 15 tourney
invites, 5 trips to 2nd round, two sweet sixteens, and one elite 8/final
4/national title.Utah: 3 tourney invites, 2 sweet sixteens"If Bronco was a basketball coach, would Cougar fans be happy if the best
he ever delivered was an NIT invitation?"Bronco: four first
round tourney appearancesWhittingham: two appearances, one sweet
sixteenAre we happy simply going to the tournament? No, but
consistency is nice.
SoonerUteComparing the NCAA tournament with the bcs is laughable.When the major college football tournament expands to an 8- to 16-team
tournament, then, and only then, will your "end of regular season Top
16" rankings comparison be relevant.The truth is, even
Utah's two greatest seasons ever, weren't good enough to produce a
single national team or player award of any kind - no national championship, no
Heisman trophy, no national individual award winner, and no national college
football hall of fame player.Two nice bowl wins (one over an
EXTREMELY mediocre, barely ranked opponent) are all you have to show for
yourself.For all of your chest-beating, even Utah's Sugar Bowl
winning team wasn't considered good enough to climb any higher than #4 in
the official bcs final poll, the Coaches Poll.BYU's 1996 Cotton
Bowl-winning team only finished a notch below that, at #5.
The rivalry banter in fun. But I think we can all feel the direction things are
going from media:1) BYU's offense is a question mark but we
have great backs, killer WRs, and a good QB. Everyone feels it should be better
than last year with Riley hurt.2) BYU's defense is still very good
with Van Noy, Unga and Kafusi. Secondary is thin, may be open to long balls.3) Utah's offense is still questionable. Can't find good receivers
and they're missing the bruising backs of the past.4) Utah's
Defense is not quite what it used to be. Good but they're missing
Andersen.5) Media has Utah at 5 wins, no bowl game.6) Media has BYU
at 8 wins, with a bowl game.Bottom line: BYU will struggle and have
a mediocre winning season with a bowl against stiff competition. Utah will
continue to fade with a 5-win losing season. We'll see.
SoonerUte"The final regular season poll is all that
matters."So Utah fans spouting off about finishing #2 in 2008 or
#4 in 2004 is meaningless?In fact, Utah's Sugar Bowl win
doesn't matter, because that occurred after the final regular season poll,
which as you clearly stated, is all that matters?Ute chest beating
about finishing in the Top 5 is meaningless, because the Utes have never
finished higher than #6 in the final regular season poll?It's
laughable the contorted spin Utah fans are forced to employ to try to minimize
BYU's clearly superior overall accomplishments.
@ Elmer Fudd,I completely agree with your ranking of Utah's
games as well. I gave you a like as well. Do you think Ute fans
will storm the field after they win the game against Weber State? Probably not.
That game is the only one people would be shocked if Utah didn't win.
Teams 1-11 on your ranking are all games against teams that are either currently
much better than Utah or in the case of Colorado and Washington State are about
just as good as Utah. The fans SHOULD storm the field if the Utes win any game
this year among those first eleven games.Someday Utah will be good
enough to become bowl eligible again. I really do believe that 2015 will be the
year. In the current year the Utes should just be happy when they get a win
because they won't be coming easy with how depleted the NFL and graduation
has left them.Take solace. The Utes once beat Alabama in the Sugar
Bowl! BYU in the meantime will go bowling, be ranked and play a national
schedule on TV. I like where BYU is.
WACpaddled"BYU is 3-8-1 all time against Colorado. What
percentage is that?"Gotta luv the frantic and emotional spin
Utah fans are forced to use to help themselves sleep at night.BYU
has won 3 of the last 4 versus Colorado, and hasn't lost to the Buffs since
a narrow 7-9 setback in the 40's. In the meantime, BYU has dished out a
beatdown in Boulder and beat the Buffs in the Freedom Bowl.Compare
that to Utah's two most recent meetings with the Buffs - a LOSS to a
10-loss team at home, and a 7-point win over an 11-loss team in Boulder.btw, Utah is 0-8 lifetime versus Washington. BYU is 4-4, including a win
in 2010.The Arizona schools have excelled in other sports, but the
sad truth for U is, as pathetic as the Utes have been in PAC football (7-11),
the Utes have been even more pathetic in every other PAC sport besides W
@ManInTheMiddleHave fun in Murfeesboro next year.
This article provides key and brilliant insight. If you win all your games you
can be considered an elite program.
Let's face it. Last year was not the best of years for either BYU or Utah.
Both teams will be better in the future, but I have my doubts for both teams
this year. I have my doubts particularly about BYU's choice for offensive
staff, and some key players have been injured in practice. Still routing for
Laugh fest...ute fan logic:1. That by being admitted
into the PAC 12 they have been crowned worthy and that they need to do nothing
to be counted among the country's elite programs.2. Turn around
and tell BYU fans that none of the accolades or praise BYU gets from anybody is
worthwhile, nor does their national championship, winning seasons, bowl
appearances, or higher and more often final top 25 rankings.3. The
only thing that matters is that they are 3-4, 8-11. Winning is everything.So when they are talking about themselves they use the collective
"we're" part of a better conference, but it does not matter if we
win, the only thing that matters is that we have a chance to win, and that
we've arrived and are accepted into a "Big boy" conference.Then they come back to BYU fans and say, nothing else matter except
wins.Nice logic. So wins only matter one direction and not the
other?That is why you'll never be respected.
The facts of the matter are this is a program where some in senior LDS Church
leadership question if it is really needed for the mission of BYU. All this
program has done is take away from the effectiveness of state run programs,
particularly at Utah State University. Had BYU done the right thing half a
century ago and given up football, and not been included in the original WAC
alignment, this wouldn't be an issue. The football program should be
dropped at BYU plain and simple.
Cougsndawgs- You are one of the most reasonable person on here. Way to keep it
real bro. Wow, they did deny it. This is huge because Texas don't play nice
with anyone. If and when expansion talk comes up again, they will love nothing
better than sticking it to BYU. I was hoping that BYU would just approve it and
move on. This may come back to bite BYU. Good luck on the season except the Utah
@ toosmartforyou"Hey, E Fudd, they're still saying that in
Arizona "...We'll get there one day." LOL!!"Here's the thing! Utah is NOT Arizona! It wasn't too long ago that
BYU fans would say "Utah will never crash the BCS", and they did!
"Utah will never do it again", and they did! "Utah will never beat
Alabama in the Sugar Bowl", and they did! Utah will never be invited to join
the Pac-10", and they did! Now it's "Utah will never win the PAC
and play in the Rose Bowl", only time will tell! BYU fans making those
ridiculous claims only reveal their jealousy of Utah. By the way
#1 SLC Sports FanYour speculation is nothing but bitter jealousy
from a BYU-hating Aggie. There aren't now, and never have been any serious
discussions within the senior LDS Church leadership of dropping football at
BYU.Utah State is a nice school with a decent athletics program, but
Utah State's "mission" has absolutely NOTHING to do with BYU's
@ Ute fans calling BYU football irrelevant: If it's irrelevant, why do you
put so much time into commenting on something so irrelevant to you? Your
actions speak louder than your words. It appears that both schools are still
highly relevant to each other.BYU went independent because their
major competition left for better conferences and they were not willing to
compromise on Sunday play in order to do the same. The MWC no longer had
programs that could compete with BYU so BYU left so that they had more freedom
in strengthening their schedule. They stay independent because they still
won't compromise on Sunday play. It also helps that they have a lucrative
contract with ESPN.
BYU is the greatest college football program in NCAA history. The is no
What, no prediction for a national championship? Perhaps Cougar nation has
learned its lessons...perhaps.
Elmer FuddSorry to burst your crimson bubble, but 2004 and 2008 were
anomalies, not trends. A program that has only finished in the AP Top 25 FIVE
times in their entire history and has only won SIX WAC/MWC championships in half
a century, THAT program has no chance of ever being one of the big boys in the
PAC.The Utes will NEVER win a national championship.And,
IF the Utes ever win a conference championship, it will be at half the frequency
at which the Utes won championships in the WAC, in other words, about 1 every 37
years.5-7 seasons with no bowl, with occassional break through 7-5
seasons are Utah's new reality.The sooner you accept that, the
better you'll sleep at night.
Glad to see an article not criticizing BYU for something! Looking forward to a
great season! Go Cougs!
@ElmerFuddNice rankings of toughness and importance! TO bad it
doesn't really matter for a 4-8 finish, 2-7 Pac-10 (Again, you are still
not recognized by Pac-10 fans, they still don't want you and Colorado).
The only thing Utah and Colorado are good for in the Pac-10 is a couple extra
Utah is in the PAC12 right now because of two BCS bowl wins. Simple as that. TCU
same thing. BYU hasn't even been to a BCS bowl and therefore isn't
considered a major college football program until it does....at least not in the
same sense as those programs consistently in the top 20. Wins will do the trick
no question but the Y has the double hard task of getting those wins on the road
because nobody is going to come to Provo anymore. It can be done but it will
take some good fortune getting great players and that is much easier said than
Beaver Native,Thank you for saying what you did!!!! BYU will not
compromise its principles to join a conference and they should not be asked or
expected to do so!!! I would rather hold my head up high and know I have honor,
spirit and tradition on my side then to give it all up just to belong to a
certain conference!!! Stay the coarse BYU!!!Go Cougs!!!Go
Utes!!!Go Aggies!!! Beat Utah
"Independent BYU just needs wins to return to nation's elite"Isn't this true of pretty much every sports team...ever?
I'm with Joe. Doesn't every team in every sport require wins to be
elite. I mean with exception to Notre Dame.
SportsFanOrem, UTWACpaddledBYU has won 3 of the last 4
versus Colorado, and hasn't lost to the Buffs since a narrow 7-9 setback in
the 40's. In the meantime, BYU has dished out a beatdown in Boulder and
beat the Buffs in the Freedom Bowl.Compare that to Utah's two
most recent meetings with the Buffs - a LOSS to a 10-loss team at home, and a
7-point win over an 11-loss team in Boulder.btw, Utah is 0-8
lifetime versus Washington. BYU is 4-4, including a win in 2010.The
Arizona schools have excelled in other sports, but the sad truth for U is, as
pathetic as the Utes have been in PAC football (7-11), the Utes have been even
more pathetic in every other PAC sport besides W gymnastics.__________Who is the one spinning? You totally ignored what I was
commenting about while focusing on BYUs all time record against CU.No wonder BYU fans can't handle numbers. You are comparing Utah's
time in the PAC with the Arizona schools. Kind of a difference in years
don't you think?
It's time for both Utah and BYU to start beating the better teams on the
schedule. Talking the talk is one thing, but walking the walk is a whole
different story. I would love to see both Utah and BYU win 9-10 games this year;
but looking at the schedules, that's a tall task indeed. Best of luck to
both schools, except when Utah visits Provo.GO UTES
I love it - look how many Utes have already posted on this article. On Sat, the DNews confirmed that Wilson had solidified his spot as starting
QB. There are four comments on Wilson, and yet on this BYU article there are
over 80 comments with about 20 of them being from Utes. Conclusion
- Utes would rather discuss BYU football than their own program.There is also a good article in the Denver Post about the Buffs, but no Utes
have commented. Who is your rival?
patriot"Utah is in the PAC12 right now because of two BCS bowl
wins. Simple as that."Nope, they aren't.The
Utes are in the PAC simply because they and Colorado were the two schools with
the best cultural fit, along with decent academics, decent-sized television
markest, and decent athletic programs, after the PAC 10 / Big 12 South merger
fell through.Utah's flash-in-the-pan football program had as
little to do with it as Colorado's down-in-the-dumps football program.The PAC simply needed a couple of warm bodies to hold a CCG and increase
their television market.It's as simple as that.
patriot"Wins will do the trick no question but the Y has the
double hard task of getting those wins on the road because nobody is going to
come to Provo anymore."NOBODY, that is, except for teams like
Texas, USC, Notre Dame, Boise State, and...Utah.Winning
on the road, though more difficult, earns even more respect.Unlike
Utah, BYU isn't afraid to continue scheduling difficult opponents on the
@CougfaninTexasLook at the Utah injury article, BYU fans taking
shots at Utah. There's no difference, don't kid your self. @LonestarSo I take it that Michigan isn't a difficult
"Unlike Utah, BYU isn't afraid to continue scheduling difficult
opponents on the road."Hard to argue that, since we scheduled
byu this year and in 2016...On the road...Or...Could it be that Utah
doesn't have a problem getting difficult opponents to come to RES?
Beaver Native said:"I have my doubts particularly about
BYU's choice for offensive staff"I'm not sure why you
wrote this. Anae is a somewhat predictable but decent OC. We'll see what he
can do for now. Since everyone is commenting about BYU from the Utah side of
things, I find it hilarious that they took our terrible head coach in Erikson
from ASU as their co-offensive coordinator. Your "pitch" play has just
turned into a swing pass. You will also run that play at least 25 times per
game. Erikson is too predictable. I would say that about Anae, but he has
implemented a new offense, so we'll have to see if he goes back into a
predictable rut or not. I think BYU will have a good year. I
don't think they will go undefeated, but it will be a good year. Utah on
the other hand, I don't see them doing well. They will defeat Weber St.
but every other game is either a loss or a toss up. I don't see Utah bowing
WACpaddledWhat are you talking about?There are lots of
good players who choose to play at BYU overall schools from the PAC, including
Utah.Which school had the highest ranked draftee in the most recent
NFL draft?Utah's recent success in the NFL draft is dwarved by
BYU's long-term success in the NFL draft.Arizona and ASU may
have won national championships in multiple sport since 1979, but so has BYU,
including a football national championship, which Arizona and ASU have never
even sniffed.If you don't want to be slammed for citing
BYU's irrelevant all-time record versus Colorado, then why post it? Utah also has losing record versus Colorado, but unlike BYU, Utah's
most recent loss to Colorado wasn't over 60 years ago, it was only 2 years
ago.BYU's all-time record versus Colorado is about as relevant
as Utah's all-time record versus the YMCA, 1-7.
I just don't get the Ute fans. The article is about BYU. Not Utah. If Utah
has "moved on", why do their fans care SO MUCH about what BYU is
BYU has always been treated with respect nationally. Its only within a few
programs that BYU is so despised that the fans consider the football program
irrelevant. They will watch the games just as they always have and hope the
Cougars fail.BYU has a great advantage against Texas this year. I
can't see how 300 lb lineman will be able to keep up with BYU's
uptempo offense at altitude. Keep the horns close to halftime and hook em in
the second with consistent fast plays and the Cougars come away with a marquee
win.@Spokane UteThat Michigan game will be fun to watch.
Hope the Utes pull it off like they did the last time they went to Ann Arbor.
2015 should be a good year for the team, and a chance to finally get back to a
bowl after a three year drought.
SpokaneUte"So I take it that Michigan isn't a difficult
opponent?"Don't kid yourself.Michigan is the
one and ONLY elite OOC opponent the Utes have ever enticed into visiting RES,
and the Utes simply lucked into that when the Wolverines jumped the gun on what
they thought was going to be a long-term, inter-conference scheduling agreement
between the B1G and the PAC.Call us the next time the Utes schedule
another elite OOC opponent like Texas, Miami, Florida State, Notre Dame, Penn
State or USC to visit RES.(Sorry, U don't get to count the PAC
forcing USC to play U in SLC.)
What was the point of this article? BYU would be elite if they won all their
games? Yeah, no kidding? Maybe the D-News should write an article about how if
BYU wins most of their games, then they will have a winning record. Why would
you watch a team that plays for nothing? BYU just plays a bunch of meaningless
regular season games and then goes to some mid level bowl to play the sixth best
PAC team (assuming they even accomplish that.) If they had stayed in the MWC
they could have at least played the fifth best team and had a conference trophy
if they had won it. Their season will be over by game two when they play Texas.
Then it's just pointless.
eastcoastcoug,Cause we're going to grace your stadium on 9/21.
ekuteHome or away, the Utes haven't beaten an AP Top 25 team
since the Sugar Bowl.Despite the continuing delusion of the kids
living under that crimson bubble on the hill, the Utes have been in steady
decline ever since.btw, the BYU-Utah 2016 game is in SLC.
"What was the point of this article? BYU would be elite if they won all
their games? Yeah, no kidding?"The point, dear jeru0455, and
others who seem be having trouble here, is that BYU, even as an Independent, can
still be an elite team.Despite claims to the contrary from the hill
crowd, "eliteness" isn't determined by conference affilation, but
by success on the field.Being a basement dweller in a power
conference doesn't make you elite, it only makes U a well-paid doormat.
"Of course, there were down years, most notably the end of the Gary Crowton
era, but by and large, BYU was the pace horse of the old WAC and later the
Mountain West Conference for decades." -- Rocky SteleWAC yes,
MWC no!The MWC pace horses were TCU and Utah, BYU just Quested for
what they did. They produced more NFL talent including better QB's (Smith
and Dalton), better recruits, and BCS wins. "BYU’s
history from the Cotton Bowl victory forward has been very pedestrian; no
undefeated seasons, no BCS bowl games and most importantly no BCS Bowl game
wins. The fact is this BYU’s football program has been just speed bump
albeit higher than let’s say SDSU or UNLV in the road for the real power
programs in the MWC; TCU and Utah"Those two horses have moved on
to greener pastures.
It's always been tough for the ute fans. Two B[S]CS Bowl victories, an
invite to the Pac 10+2... And who ends up on the Street & Smith's Pac
preview? None other than Kyle Van Noy. Being part of a big
conference hasn't changed your image. Now hear this, Wyoming of the Pac...
"NOBODY CARES ABOUT U."
@ Steve JarvisThanks Man and good luck this year. Nice to respond to
a civil comment as opposed to someone who simply hates their rival. TruthmachineWhen you have USC, UCLA, Stanford, Oregon, etc. on your
schedule year in and year out, you don't need any more elite opponents
coming to town because you play in one of the top 3 conferences in America. and
why in the world wouldn't USC count? They come to SLC every other year. BYU
has a great schedule this year, but Utah's is still considered more
difficult. That's what happens when you are a member of a top caliber
conference. Call us when you beat one of those teams listed. Until then,
it's just drivel. Sorry, but simply playing, and getting beat by top teams
doesn't say much; and the same goes for Utah. Now who's kidding who? U
Home or away, the Utes haven't beaten an AP Top 25 team since the Sugar
Bowl.@ Rockwell or Scenic View, or who ever you haveNeither has BYU. Face it, both teams need to start getting quality
wins, or get used to being a below average Independent; and a lower tier PAC 12
school. Anyone can schedule good teams, it's beating those teams that
matter. That's the facts; plain and simple.
Uteology"The MWC pace horses were TCU and Utah..."Sorry to burst your crimson bubble, but MWC championships
overall:BYU 4Utah 4TCU 3While TCU was a member of
the MWC:MWC championshipsTCU 4BYU 2Utah 1Top 25 finishesTCU 6BYU 5Utah 3Top 15
finishesTCU 5BYU 3Utah 110+ win seasonsTCU
6BYU 5Utah 3During the Bronco/Kyle era (which is when
TCU entered the MWC), Utah had one good year, and little else.As far
as a pace setter, U couldn't even beat the teams at the bottom of the
conference. The Utes lost to every bottom dweller in the MWC - Wyoming, New
Mexico, Colorado State and pathetic 10-loss UNLV.The same pattern
has already begun in the PAC, where the Utes lost to pathetic 10-loss Colorado
in their first season.Pace setter?LOL!
SpokaneUte"When you have USC, UCLA, Stanford, Oregon, etc. on
your schedule year in and year out, you don't need any more elite opponents
coming to town..."Actually, you do if you have any hope of
making the playoffs."USC, UCLA, Stanford, and Oregon have all
had recent down years, where they were barely mediocre, let alone
"elite" -or have you forgotten,BYU DESTROYED
Oregon 38-8 and UCLA 59-0.Remind us again how many Top 25 PAC teams
you've played, let alone, beaten, so far.When they've come
to SLC they've been decidely NOT elite!Now who's kidding
@ CougarSunDevil,Admittedly, I'm an amateur that never even
played H.S. football, although I broadcast H.S. games for three years. I
don't know enough to consider myself an expert. My reasoning about the
offensive staff is based on the fact that BYU once let Anae go. Agreed that
Anae is a decent OC, but BYU needs more than a decent OC at the level of play
they are at now. I'll be cheering for BYU and I hope you're right.Not being from the Wasatch Front, the Utah game doesn't have the
same meaning for me as most of you. Both schools have had great teams in the
past and will have great teams in the future, but the last year or two have been
disappointing for both teams. Too many are looking at past successes as
predictors of the coming year when the last couple of years have been less than
stellar. I wish both teams success this year. It would be great to see one or
both at a BCS bowl game, but I think that's not likely this year.
@ GordonblueNot kidding anyone, I was perfectly honest. Neither Utah
or BYU have beaten a top 25 team in quite some time. The BYU-UCLA game was 5
years ago. UCLA finished the season 4-8. The Oregon-BYU game was 7 years ago.
Oregon finished 7-6. Are you actually gloating over these victories? Really?
Further more, Utah's schedule includes 5 top 25 teams, all within
conference. Plus #26 BYU and #19 Utah State (per Sagarin rankings). If you
actually think that a 13-0 run wouldn't get Utah into a playoff, I have
some Ocean front property here in Spokane that you might be interested in.
It's quite obvious, you are kidding your self; as usual. Nice! I also love
the use of CAPS, always a nice touch...........sheeesh!
Wins over top programs don't matter. What matters is attitude.If you
know you're elite, then you're elite. It doesn't matter if you
can't beat good teams. What matters is what you believe.
Spokane Ute"Neither Utah or BYU have beaten a top 25 team in
quite some time."That's only true for Utah.As
far as AP Top 25 teams go:BYU beat #16 Utah State in 2012andBYU beat #18 Utah in 2009As far as Utah is concerned,
you're correct. The Utes haven't beaten an AP Top 25 team since the
Sugar Bowl.CordonBleu wasn't gloating over victories versus
"ELITE" Oregon and UCLA teams; he was simply pointing out the obvious
fallacy and hyperbole in your argument that "When you have USC, UCLA,
Stanford, Oregon, etc. on your schedule year in and year out, you don't
need any more elite opponents", because every one of those teams has had
down years recently in which they were decidedly NOT ELITE teams.So,
where exactly are all of these so-called "ELITE" teams that you play
year in and year out in the PAC?
I love that ute fans have moved on....Moved on so much that they
must come back to every BYU article to tell byu fans why they are better.BYU is better. PERIOD. Better as a school.Better as a
place to go to school.Better basketball.Better other sports.Better fans.Better situation....and on the 21st, we'll
be a better football team.I don't need to go to a ute article
and post there to know it.But what's even better is when u fans
come to BYU articles to tell BYU fans that they are arrogant and self
righteous.(see the problem yet uties?)If I had moved on,
I wouldn't ever read another BYU article let alone comment on one.I don't care what is going on at the u. I can't name one player
(now that Star is gone), and I don't know who they play this year.If it weren't for ute trolls coming to BYU articles to pound their
chests, I would think what half the country thinks and wouldn't know u had
a football team at all.
spokaneute"If you actually think that a 13-0 run wouldn't
get Utah into a playoff, I have some Ocean front property here in Spokane that
you might be interested in."If you think that the Utes are
capable of running the table playing five conference teams that actually finish
in the AP Top 25, I have some ocean front property here in west Box Elder county
that you might be interested in.The truth is, pre-season Top 25
rankings are meaningless. USC was pre-season AP #1 last year, and finished 7-6,
and unranked, after getting stomped in the Sun Bowl by a team that BYU dominated
on their home turf.With a gift-wrapped PAC 12 South there for the
taking in 2011, U couldn't get past 10-loss Colorado on your home field.Wake up and smell the coffee. After two seasons in the PAC, you still
haven't beaten a conference foe with a winning record, let alone a ranked
PAC opponent... sheeesh!
Top Ten Wins of the Mendenhall Era (My opinion)#1 at #3 Oklahoma
2009 17-16#2 Beat #18 Oregon State 44-20, 2009 Las Vegas Bowl#3 59-0
UCLA 2008#4 OT Win vs. #21 Utah 26-23 2009#5 31-17 @TCU 2006#6
33-31 @Utah 2006#7 38-8 Oregon at Las Vegas Bowl 2006#8 17-10 Utah
2007#9 27-22 TCU 2007 #10 6-3 Utah State 2012I would
consider the Mendenhall era recent. BYU beat three ranked teams in 2009, the
best year probably for Bronco. Last year they beat USU which ended ranked and
barely out of a BCS game (Northern Ill. was barely ahead). I think
the PAC as a league is once again overrated just as they were last year. If
they start winning more than half their bowl games consistently instead of their
embarrassment last year, that perception should change.
LonestarRunnerSalt Lake City, UTWACpaddledWhat are you
talking about?There are lots of good players who choose to play at
BYU overall schools from the PAC, including Utah.Which school had
the highest ranked draftee in the most recent NFL draft?Utah's
recent success in the NFL draft is dwarved by BYU's long-term success in
the NFL draft.Arizona and ASU may have won national championships in
multiple sport since 1979, but so has BYU, including a football national
championship, which Arizona and ASU have never even sniffed.If you
don't want to be slammed for citing BYU's irrelevant all-time record
versus Colorado, then why post it? Utah also has losing record
versus Colorado, but unlike BYU, Utah's most recent loss to Colorado
wasn't over 60 years ago, it was only 2 years ago.BYU's
all-time record versus Colorado is about as relevant as Utah's all-time
record versus the YMCA, 1-7._________Sigh. Another BYU
fan with tunnel vision. Perhaps you should ask the OTHER BYU fan about that in a
previous post.Long term success? Utah has more drafted players than BYU
going back decades, according to pro-football-reference.
@UteanymousDuring the Bronco/Kyle era (which is when TCU entered the MWC),
Utah had one good year, and little else.-----------Wrong!Your same old stats, which tries to equate 2 top 25 finishes
is equal to two undefeated top 5 finishes with BCS wins. Nice spin!AP Top 25 in MWC:Utah (4):2009 18 10-3 2008 2 13-0 2004 4 12-0 2003 21 10-2 BYU (5):2009 12 11-22008 25 10-32007 14 11-22006 16 11-22001 2512-2MWC Tiles: 1. TCU 5 (Rose)2. Utah 4 (Fiesta and Sugar)3. BYU
4 (Vegas)Last 3 years in the MWC:1. TCU 36-3 (lost to #@2
Utah, #7 Boise, #5 Oklahoma)2. Utah 33-6 (lost to @#6 TCU, @#12 BYU, @#11
Oregon, #2 TCU, #9 Boise, @#26 ND)3. BYU 28-11 (lost to Arizona (8-5), FSU
(7-6), @USU (4-8), @AFA, Nevada, etc.)Since TCU joined? So what?
BYU also finished #5 in MWC during the period, Utah never finished lower than
But I thought byU was already in the nation's Elite? They actually have to
win? lolNot gonna happen this year.
I think that the BYU Cougars are super cool. If I could I would grow another
mouth to cheer twice as loud!! Go Cougars!! :)
Uteology/utahcountyuteUtah fans are forced to concentrate on
minutia, like head-to-head versus BYU, and cherry-picked wins over supposedly
good power conference teams, because the Utes simply aren't good enough to
ranked at the end of the season.Regardless of how U spin it, these
facts remain:AP Top 25 Finishes LifetimeBYU 17Utah 5AP Top 25 Finishes Bronco/Kyle eraBronco 4Kyle 2The sad truth for U is this: IF the Utes were even half as good as
Utah fans pretend they are, the Utes would have finished in the AP Top 25 more
than FIVE times in their entire history.The record speaks for
itself: BYU ranked in 22% of all 1054 AP polls - 11 (Preseason), 17
(Final), 236 Weeks (Total)Utah ranked in 7% of all 1054 AP polls - 2
(Preseason), 5 (Final), 77 Weeks (Total)
WACpaddled:"Long term success? Utah has more drafted players
than BYU going back decades, according to pro-football-reference."Remind us how many Utah players have been NFL and Super Bowl MVPs.-------------Uteology"BYU also finished #5 in MWC
during the period, Utah never finished lower than 3rd."NOPE!
Unfortunately for U, it was BYU that never finished lower than 3rd, and the Utes
that finished 4th in 2005.The real results:BYU finished
in a 3-way tie for 3rd in 2010, losing to Air Force, but beating SDSU.TCU
8-0Utah 7-1AFA 5-3BYU 5-3SDSU 5-3Utah(4-4)
finished 4th in 2005, behind BYU(5-3) 2nd.Overall during the
Bronco/Kyle:Bronco's average MWC finish: 2.0 (2, 1, 1, 3, 2,
3)Kyle's average MWC finish: 2.7 (4, 3, 3, 1, 3, 2)
@SportsFanUtah(4-4) finished 4th in 2005, behind BYU(5-3) 2nd.--------------Great but how did we do overall and head to
head? In 2005, BYU was clearly not the better team:* Utah finished
7-5 ahead of 6-6 BYU and CSU* Beat BYU @LES* Beat #24 Georgia Tech
in a bowl gameRemember you also defined 8-5 and 5-7 as a bottom
feeder. So in 2010 why are you defining a 7-5 team as 3rd best
team when TCU 11-1, Utah 10-3, AFA 9-4, and SDSU 9-4 were clearly much better
Uteology "So in 2010 why are you defining a 7-5 team as 3rd best
team when TCU 11-1, Utah 10-3, AFA 9-4, and SDSU 9-4 were clearly much better
teams."Nice dodge, but the discussion was about conference
finish, not who was better.In 2005, BYU tied with AFA and SDSU, and
split with them head-to-head, losing to AFA, but beating SDSU, so in conference
standings, the three remained tied.If SDSU was clearly better, how
did BYU beat the Aztecs head-to-head? Doesn't that fly in the face of the
argument Utah fans are constantly making that head-to-head trumps all?Utah didn't beat #24 Georgia Tech, Utah beat unranked Georgia Tech, a
team that only garnered 1 vote in the final AP poll (tied with Utah and 3 other
teams at 38th), and only 5 votes in the final Coaches poll (34th).BYU, on the other hand, lost a close game to #25/#25 California(8-4), a team
that was obviously MUCH better than the bowl opponent Utah faced.Better team doesn't always equate to conference/overall record.Average MWC finishBronco = 2.0Kyle = 2.7
Y's Little BrotherNews Flash, neither has BYU. Did I say Utah
had beaten conference foe with a winning record? NO. Did I say it's time
for Utah to start beating the better teams in the conference? Yes. You are
trying to pick an arguement, and you don't even know what to argue about,
nice. Snack PackAgain, BYU hasn't beaten a top 25
team either. Where are the elite PAC 12 schools? Why look in the top 25, and the
top 5 for that matter. Last year the PAC 12 finished with #2, #5 and #19. The
conference was ranked #2 or #3 in every ranking system. Look at the conferences
non-conference winning %. If you can't admit that the PAC 12 is a premier
conference you either hate Utah, or don't know college football. I believe
it's a combination of the two; that's quite apparent. Isn't it
snack time yet guy?
Love how u fans feel that the past ten years means more than the previous 40.The only thing that matters is last year, and the last game.Yes, you beat us, but we did better overall.This year we will beat
you and still do better overall.U fans, take a close look at your
current situation. It isn't new. u have been in decline since 2008. u
aren't picked to do well this year either. Next year you will probably be
the same. The year after u will have a new coach, but that doesn't mean
u'll be any better.The only people who don't get it is u.
This is u'r new normal.
UteanymousDrive up to Rexburg, Idaho sometime and see what an LDS
Church university should really look like and behave like. Disagree or not this
is what some in senior LDS Church leadership want for BYU.
Spokane Ute"Again, BYU hasn't beaten a top 25 team
either."Newsflash:BYU beat #16/#17 Utah State last
year; whether U want to acknowledge it or not, BYU beat a Top 25 team in 2012
(which, if you do the math, was last season).BYU also beat #18/#18
Utah in 2009. Are you really going to argue that Utah wasn't a Top 25 team
in 2009?That's TWO Top 25 teams BYU has beaten since
Utah's Sugar Bowl win over Alabama.In the mean time, Utah
hasn't beaten a single AP Top 25 team in the last four seasons.It doesn't matter where the PAC 12 finished last season, since Utah
didn't play #2 Oregon or #5 Stanford, and there's no guarantee that
any PAC 12 team Utah faces in the future will be ranked. Every season is
different. Pre-season, Utah was projected to play #1 USC last year. The Utes
ended up playing a 7-6, unranked USC team.As they say, don't
count your chickns, er SOS, before the end of the season. Pre-season rankings
are meaningless. Final rankings are the ONLY rankings that count.
@RockwellYou are right, I stand corrected. Utah has beaten BYU three
years in row though, right? That's a stat that never comes up in these
discussions by BYU fans. Now that's curious? Let's get
this season started, we both need some new amunition. Both schools need to start
beating the good schools on there schedule, consistently. I think we can both
agree to that.
#1 SLC Sports FanYou obviously never attended a football or
basketball game at Ricks before the school dropped intercollegiate athletics -
Ricks College fans were just as passionate about their teams as BYU fans are
about theirs, in fact, many of those former Ricks College fans are now BYU fans,
including three of my children who earned Associates Degrees from Ricks/BYU-I
and then earned their Bachelors Degrees from BYU.There is a special
spirit at BYU-I, but that same spirit, in many respects, can also be found at
BYU.btw, I see many in senior LDS Church leadership attending
football and basketball games at BYU, and for the most part, they're very
pleased with the overall positive influence BYU athletics have had in advancing
the mission of the church.
@Marked it DownNope, that wasn't no my original comment. I
said the pace horse for the WAC was BYU.I said the pace horses for
MWC was clearly Utah and TCU based on NFL talent, BCS games, and "more
importantly" BCS wins (aka big wins). Which was the same argument made in
the article to support BYU.Only in Provo is 7-5 team better than a
9-4 team playing a similar SOS.Only in Provo is getting beat at home
by your rival then losing to a #31 ranked team in a bowl game proves that you
are better:2005: Utah (7-5) 41 @BYU (6-6) 31 Utah 38
GTech 10 (pre bowl AP #24 - post bowl AP unranked)BYU 28 Cal 35 (pre
bowl AP #31 - post bowl AP #25)
UteologySince when are you the authority to decide what criteria is
used to determine the "pace horse(s)" for the MWC.Bowl games
are only one criteria. Conference championships and Top 25 rankings are equally,
if not more, important.It's laughable that you insist on using
pre-bowl and pre-season rankings for opponents, but choose to completely ignore
final rankings.Based on AP Top 25 finishes from 2005 to 2010, while
BYU, TCU and, Utah were all in the MWC, Utah was clearly only the 3rd best team
in the conference:TCU 6BYU 4Utah 2Based on
conference championships:TCU 4BYU 2Utah 1Utah had
one great year with their BCS bowl winning team and a Top 5 finish, but BYU had
three very good years with 11-2 seasons and three Top 15 finishes.You can claim that 11-2 isn't all that great, but to put an 11-win season
into perspective, aside from Utah's 2004 and 2008 undefeated seasons, Utah
has never had another 11-win season.In the final Sagarin ratings for
2005#51 Utah(7-5) #76 SOS#55 BYU(6-6) #65 SOS
TrueBlueSo Utah had a slightly better record and ranking with a
slightly easier schedule in 2005, one of only three of eight seasons during the
Bronco/Kyle era where Kyle has finished with a better record and higher ranking
@trueblue..."Bowl games are only one criteria. Conference championships and
Top 25 rankings are equally, if not more, important."Really
thats more important then undefeated seasons and BCS bowl wins? I think you
would be about the only person along with a few other cougie fans that would say
that. I'm pretty sure there aren't fan's, players,
coaches, etc. out there saying I really hope we finish number 25 this year
instead of going undefeated and winning a BCS bowl game...LOL In fact most your
fan base quested to do exactly what Utah did twice unfortunatley for Bronco and
the questing fan's though the team/program is just not good enough to
accomplish what Utah has over the last decade.
2bRegardless of which bowl you win, the final ranking is the final
word on the season, so yes, Top 25 ranking trumps BCS bowl win.Ohio
State, which didn't even play in a bowl, finished #3 in the final AP poll
in 2012, ahead of Rose Bowl winner #7 Stanford, Orange Bowl winner #10 Florida
State, and Sugar Bowl winner #13 Louisville, so yes, Top 25 ranking does trump
BCS bowl winner.#3 > #7 > #10 > #13Slice it
anyway that helps you sleep at night, but it doesn't matter which bowl you
win if you finish lower in the polls.
And if pigs just had wings, they could fly!Really, this is stating
the blatantly obvious, joining such classic phrases as:"If I
just had more money, I wouldn't have to budget so carefully!""If it rained more, I wouldn't have to water my lawn!"and so on...NEXT!
I don't see how BYU could feel good about accepting a bowl bid unless they
beat either Boise State, Notre Dame or Wisconsin. If they win all 3 they deserve
a major bowl game. I believe they can and certainly hope they will.