One practical advantage in having nearly all four year schools involves
transfers. Many 4 year colleges have very liberal transfer credit policies that
allow about 90 transfer credits from a 4 year school. These same schools only
allow 65-67 credit to transfer from a 2 year school. Some schools allow these 90
transfer credits in 100-200 level. This often goes retroactive as a school
transcript that currently shows a upper division 300-600 level school does not
reflect the fact the credits were earned when it was a 2 year school.
The University of Utah has my endless gratitude for the superb education I
received. I was challenged, it was hard, and it was exhilarating. Each teacher
was dramatically different but all good, some even great. Now the trend is
toward robotic, canned "learning" online from the Western
Governors' "University," which is not a university at all but an
elaborate video game. It's all driven by the "economy," which is
the equivalent of the grand lady of Babylon whose fall is coming, and "great
shall be the fall thereof."
Higher ed is in a bubble, poorly prepared for the changes affecting it. MOOCs
(massive free online classes), decreased legislature funding, irrelevant
research, escalating student debt, beliefs that college "isn't worth
it," etc.Sadly, universities are responsible for these problems.
Free online classes, for example, are in response to perceptions that education
CAN be delivered for less. Scholarship from professors is targeted
for elite journals that often take years to complete/publish and few people ever
read, costing tax-payers significantly. Sadly, society has limited access or
use for it. Indeed, talk to professors and they'll say their research is
written for other academics and NOT tax payers or policymakers to benefit
society. Journals are evaluated on "impact factors" of citation rates
-- not "impact" on changing laws or boosting the economy. In fact, applied work is discounted, and professors focused on actually
solving real world problems are seen as "second rate." Watch
the high ed bubble burst as social forces (more legislature cuts, students
shunning education over costs, MOOCs, etc.) sideline universities not meeting
society's needs.Universities that demonstrate their value to
society as economic engines, creating new technologies and solving problems will
be the survivors.
I'll get a lot of argument on this but Utah has devastated the intuitions
of higher learning and primary eduction k1-k12 by trading off knowledge and
learning to satisfy the greed of profiteering off (loans) the of state and
federal government over spending.To glorify all the self proclaimed
success and slapping themselves on the backs for a job well done its crying
shame the people they put through this measurable system did not learn anything
of value for prosperity. Utah sacrificed knowledge, the future, and
lives to create a socialist society. They had to restrain children and students
from learning too much and outside the box to make sure they could measure
training. After 50 years of carbon copy education, these mid life parents of
propaganda are all realizing they have been unhappy all their lives. Once
college degrees were good for hundreds of jobs with knowledge they could use in
many trades and skills before business was allowed to limit education.Government controlled education is the tool created for the best trained
socilaist to restrict knowledge and make workers believe they can't be
independent or self sufficient like their parents.
I think the universities do a decent job, but the simple fact is that I think
people will come out ahead if they skip college. College has become
so insanely expensive nowadays. Universities care about student headcounts,
fancy campuses, athletic programs, diversity, and money more than they care
about providing students with a quality education at an affordable cost. If colleges were really serious about this, they would take that extra
money and build more campuses with it so they could serve more students. I just don't think colleges care all that much here about that.
The lack of proper funding allocation, mediocre graduation rates, limited
classroom space, parking issues, and increasing tuition cost reflect that.
Yes, Dixie State became dual role this year. But, in 1991, when Weber State
College was renamed Weber State University and Southern Utah State College was
renamed Southern Utah University, they were designated as having a university
tier (for their bachelors and masters degree programs, which had long existed at
both schools at that time) and a college tier (for their certificate and
associate courses). For years, on the USHE website, the university tier (with
some modest selectivity) and the college tier (with open enrollment) was
thoroughly explained. Utah's public colleges were considered to be in four
levels:I. Research universities (Utah and Utah State)II.
Masters universities (Weber State and Southern Utah)III.
Bachelor/associate colleges (Utah Valley State College)IV. Community
College (Snow, Dixie, Eastern Utah, and Salt Lake Community College)These designations started to change around 2008 when UVSC became UVU and
started masters programs.I like the dual role and that it is
explicit. Weber State, Utah Valley, and Dixie serve as both 4-year (and higher)
and community colleges, without the cost of separate institutions.
What's the mission? Churn 'em out?University courses are
too long. Too many classes are created by educators based upon their dreams, not
upon the realities of the job market.It's absurd that a BA in
English (my degree) should take as long as a BS in Engineering. My degree should
have been over in 3 years and my first masters in one year just like my 2nd.I've taught business classes that covered the subject in 12 weeks
and the class lasted 16. And some degrees need a disclaimer: Enjoy
the classes 'cuz you'll never a job in this field.
The administrator from SLCC seems to be ripping on the other Utah schools.
I'm so glad the state decided to make Weber, Utah Valley, and Dixie
dual-role schools. Does this administrator wish the other schools had been
forced to remain 2-year schools? Also, it kind of sounds like she is taking
credit for the mission of SLCC. We've all seen the less than ideal
retention and graduation numbers at our colleges and universities, and SLCC is
no exception. When a school president is trying to call out the other schools or
the entire state, she should be reminded that there are more than enough
problems to solve at her school. There are problems with higher-ed, including
cost and access, but I believe Utah is handling these problems better than most
It is hard to take seriously an article that starts out with this inaccuracy:
"In 1990, Utah operated nine public institutions of higher education, seven
of which were two-year colleges."This suggests that Weber State
and Southern Utah were 2-year institutions in 1990, when both had been 4-year
institutions since the early 1960s (when they, like many teachers colleges
across the US became 4-year schools to accommodate bachelors degree requirements
for teachers) and both had master's programs, Weber State since 1978.Utah, Utah State, Weber State, and Southern Utah were all 4-year
schools. Utah Valley was in the process of converting to 4 year. Snow, Dixie
State, Eastern Utah, and Salt Lake Community College, were also 2-year colleges.
Eastern Utah became a "university" when it was absorbed by USU, but
still has essentially the same 2-year mission in Price and in San Juan
County.The array of applied technology colleges--some of which
(Weber-Ogden, Davis, Bridgerland) are quite large and are filling half the
community college mission (career and technical education), but are not allowed
to fill the entire community college mission which also includes transfer
programs to universities.