Comments about ‘Commentary: Texas lineman Desmond Harrison is responsible for his ineligibility, not BYU’

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Published: Monday, Aug. 19 2013 2:20 p.m. MDT

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Salt Lake City, UT

Who am I sir?

Exceptionally well stated!

What we are seeing on this board is a perfect example of how people are treated who voice opinions that are contrary to what is considered acceptable thinking regarding byu. So far I've been told:

I am "foolishly attacking" (this from an attorney)
I was rejected by byu
I was scorned
I am Sour grapes
I am envious
I was denied admission (my personal favorite)
I am unable to "capitalize byu" (whatever that means)
I have a secondary agenda
I am not as bright as byu students who easily transfer to the Ivy League (epic fail)
I have not experienced the academic rigor of byu (this article is about byu's online courses that kids sleep through for high school credit)

Without question, the most amazing part of these comments...I am a faithful member of the same church as the people who are saying this to me.

I too, am a Utah Man.

Salt Lake City, UT

STuFOO, per your request...

-Max Hall-gate
-byu Football player with DUI played 5 games
-byu coach (Lamb) and a player making unfounded accusations about Air Force
-byu baseball coach encouraging his players to, and participating in, a fight
-Students throw trash at referees (ostensibly because the refs deserved it)

The result of these events? Not one word of apology from the school...not one.

Compare that with the prank that SDSU students pulled on byu when they dressed up as missionaries. The byu collective stamped their feet, screamed "religious discrimination," and demanded an apology. byu received an exceptionally well worded, thought out, and sincere apology from SDSU.

Now, Stufoo, I'm not saying that byu has never apologized for their short comings. But I have demonstrated here that byu has, in fact, made its share of mistakes. Further, I will unequivocally state that I personally have never seen a formal, substantive apology from byu regarding any matter.

As for this article, I am not as quick as Mr Teeples to absolve byu of some measure of culpability in this matter. Again, the NCAA needs to conduct a thorough investigation of byu's online courses and make a call.

Cougar in Texas
Houston, TX


Any school or program can place eligibility requirements for those taking a class or course it offers. This is routinely done.

Harrison or his counselor willfully ignored the plain statement on the BYU IS website that the credits are not eligible for student-athlete NCAA qualification.

Texas’ primary complaint is that other athletes have used the courses to gain NCAA eligibility, therefore so should Harrison. If other athletes did this then they too lied when they took their courses. BYU relies on the honesty of the student to declare whether or not they are a student-athlete. BYU does not double check.

In this case, someone outed Harrison to BYU. Texas might want to look at some of their conference foes or recruiting rivals as the culprit.

Highland, UT

SLCWatch has this one exactly right.

Austin Coug
Pflugerville, TX

The negative nancies are missing the point. IS classes at BYU are meant to be taken by the person who enrolled in the class. It is called CHEATING to have someone else do the the work for you. That was the problem and that is what spurned the change. BYU is a solid educational institution. To state otherwise is disingenuous and uninformed. Why would BYU have an average ACT score of 28 for entering freshman if they were a glorified high school?

Cougar in Texas
Houston, TX

Who Am I Sir?

I always get a good chuckle from someone who went to Utah then claims they were exposed to so much “diversity” there. You need to get out more.


So when did you take a BYU IS course that makes you such an expert? There are two Texas fans on UT Boards right now who say they've taken courses from BYU IS and support their legitimacy.

As for BYU not taking responsibility, only 3 of the 5 examples you shared could be laid at the feet of the institution.

BYU player played 5 games after getting a DUI: As soon as BYU found out, he was suspended. Contrast this to how Utah treated Brett Ratliff's situation.

Not only did Lamb and Jorgensen complain about AFA's blocking techniques, a whole bunch of other schools did too (and about Navy's as well). To date, no complainant has offered an apology. It was their opinions.

BYU's baseball coach did not encourage nor participate in a fight. He was reprimanded after a UNM-BYU postgame scuffle when he said he felt that UNM provoked it.

You'll have to do better than that.

Cardston, Alberta

@who am i
Classic case of blaming the school for the fact that you just did not fit there. Stop blaming BYU and accept the fact that no one forced you to enroll. If you can't accept reality, stop blaming BYU and man up and move on with your life then you are the real loser. Your bulloney carries zero credibility. I attended BYU for four years and loved every minute of my time there. I never once regretted my choice to enroll at such a great University. On point, the fact remains that the BYU honor code is in force and folks in IS can cheat if they choose to cheat. Honorable individuals will benefit from these courses while cheaters are only hurting themselves. Rules is rules and these athletes need to be held accountable for their lack of integrity.

Salt Lake City, UT

Cougar in Texas
I did not say all the examples merit a public apology. So, of the three incidents that can by laid at the feet of the institution, which ones did byu stand tall, acknowledge, and make right?? Let's review...

The comments made by Lamb and Jorgensen were despicable. The ole' others said the same thing doesn't cut it. Is byu responsible for its actions or not? Think about it.

If byu's coach did not encourage or participate in the fight (not the story I read) what what he reprimanded for?? Of course he "felt" the UNM provoked what you characterize as a "scuffle" (excellent word choice to minimize what occurred). What else would he say?

Now...about Max Hall-gate and fans throwing trash at referees...

I know it's shocking to some (i.e., Stufoo) but byu does, in fact, have it's blunders. SDSU stood tall and made their gaff right. byu? Not so much.

Stufoo wanted examples, there they are.

Austin Coug
BYU is a solid educational institution. To state otherwise is disingenuous and uninformed. Great. No problem with the NCAA taking a look, then.

Salt Lake City, UT


"If you can't accept reality, stop blaming BYU and man up and move on with your life then you are the real loser."

And here you are calling someone a "loser" because they disagreed with you.

Please read my comment above (12:54pm). This is a classic example of what byu people do when others do not conform to their accepted way of thinking...name calling and bullying. The point made by Who am I sir? is displayed right here on this comment board.

I shared these comments with my wife, a byu undergrad and now holds a PhD and prepares students in her field. She is still laughing at the sense of superiority in which you people wrap yourselves like a security blanket. She is grateful for her education at byu and felt prepared entering the workplace. However, she noted that she was no more prepared than any other student from any other institution.

She is not the least bit impressed with the arrogance of byu fans.


I got an undergraduate degree from BYU, then a graduate degree from Northwestern University.
Of course the graduate degree was harder than undergraduate - duh! Most are where ever you go. But the undergraduate education at BYU prepared me very well to work for a doctorate at one of the best universities in the Country.

On the surface it seems fair to give anyone credit for these classes. But on further reflection -- it makes more sense to only give credit to BYU athletes where they can be monitored and assisted in progressing in their studies. Many universities don't care if their athletes go to class or progress toward graduation. BYU does care. This is one of the programs BYU uses to help lesser students learn to work better to catch up to become real college students.

Lincoln City, OR


The only one being aggressive and attackin is you... Most of the negative responses I read are a result of your attacks against an institution that we are all proud to have attended and one that we believe has very high academic standards... When you call it a "Glorified High School" you are probably going to get that reaction... So please, stop with the whole "Poor Victim " thing.

You claim that you have worked "for", "with", and have even "supervised" BYU Grads and "none of them taught you anything"... I would submit that that is more a reflection on you than them...

In fact, if I were recruiting for any of the Corporations that I have worked for and I was considering someone who had worked with or for you (just based on what you have written here) I wouldn't even bother checking you as a reference because I would know that your evaluations and opinions are far from accurate and bubbling over with personal bias.

The fact that both you and your wife are no longer students at BYU it appears that we have a win-win situation for all.

Syracuse, UT

So much of the comments are about my University is better than your University and missing the whole point of the matter!

This is about HONESTY. What was intended here. Look at what the real problem is. If there is a problem with BYU it is that they are too trusting of people. Is that so wrong? I would much rather be trusted and accomplish things in life honestly than to be dishonest and have to live with that and fight those feeling and try to justify myself when faced with reality.

So spin all you want, but when you look at the facts and the heart and soul of the problem, it comes down to the individual and what their intentions were (are).

The Rock
Federal Way, WA

Sure, student athletes should be held accountable. But why the double standard?
You can get credit if you are not a student athlete, but if you are a student athlete you can't, unless you are a BYU student athlete.

Give me a break. That is like playing poker and you can't get an inside straight except on Tuesdays.

If the student did the work and earned the grade then they get credit.
If the course is not rigorous enough for University credit, then fix it or delete it and nobody gets credit.

Who am I sir?
Cottonwood Heights, UT

I accepted scholarship. I agreed to conditions. I complied. I moved on many reasons - some were listed. NO BLAME. I just matured.

" Please do not say things that are not proven. Thank you"
My proof was rejected twice as "duplicate"; however, the original response has yet to be posted. Here is another abrieviated attempt. "BYU "Character Education" courses that merely required Oher to "read a few brief passages from famous works ... and then answer five questions about it." Lewis dubbed the process "the great Mormon grade-grab." (Blind Side book) and "Some of those athletes and their suitors or coaches have been caught cheating, especially with BYU correspondence."
"Students trying to get or stay eligible to play sports ... have been found to have improperly taken BYU correspondence courses. ... some athletes didn't know coaches enrolled them in the BYU courses." (Trib article)
Most posters have blamed peoples honesty - not BYU. Well, BYU is responsible for the difficulty disclosed in Oher's book. And if BYU places that much faith in IS students honesty - I can't comprehend what little control is placed on regular students efforts! NO other school implements zero controls.

Cougar in Texas
Houston, TX


At 6:50 on 8/17 you say: "I did not say all the examples merit a public apology" but at 1:43 you complained: "The result of these events? Not one word of apology from the school...not one".

So, which is it?

BYU's comments about AFA blocking techniques do not merit an apology and nobody other than you has ever asked for one.

Baseball Coach Vance Law was reprimanded by the league for accusing UNM of provoking the fight. Look it up. View the video of the event. It was a scuffle. Perhaps you should apologize for accusing him of starting and participating a fight when he did neither.

Max provided his own apology for his own actions.

Which school has ever "apologized" for throwing trash on the court? None. BYU did apologize for the jumbotron incident with USU a few years ago, however.

And SDSU did not offer a "well worded apology" to BYU. The student leader of "The Show" said that if his sign offended Jimmer, then he apologized. Period.

And what again makes you an expert on BYU Independent Study?

Draper, UT


"Makes me wonder what you studied??" Sorry for not providing you with enough details: BYU, Civil and Environmental Engineering, 3.91; U of U, MBA, 4.0. Is that sufficient? BTW, congratulations on your Ivy League degree... "Makes me wonder what you studied??"

@Who am I Sir?

I'm sorry if you had a hard time with the rules (rules you knew about and committed to follow before enrolling). I'm also sorry if you only "heard" one truth. I heard many, and I'm guessing you just didn't hear one you liked (the progressive definition of academic freedom and tolerance).

Me, Myself and I
The Promised Land, UT

What a cheap shot taken at Urban Meyer. Has he had athletes who have violated the law and come back to play for him yes. Were they just given their second or third chances without any kind of "repentance"? No! They have all taken personal responsibility and earned their way back onto his teams. Every group, company or team etc has people who screw up, make mistakes. some are grievous and intentional others are minor and innocent most are somewhere in between. Do I believe people should get an infinite amount of chances for repeating offenses, no, but they should be given a few. People mess up!

Ute parents - me Cougar
Rathdrum, ID

Where is Chris?

Overton, NV

Some of you are really having a hard time with this concept. Let me try and summarize this so that you can understand.

1) Michael Oher and others used BYU IS classes to make up high school credits in order to be eligible for college. The NCAA expressed concerns about how fast they were able to take those classes. It was also concerned about over site, namely whether or not those student athletes were really taking the classes. Mainly because of the over site issue, they decided to prohibit student athletes from using such classes as a means to become eligible.

2) BYU, after looking over their IS program, decided to take further steps to insure student athletes are not abusing the system. They prohibited any non-BYU athlete from taking BYU IS courses as a means of becoming eligible since BYU could not provide over site. This is not a problem for BYU students, since BYU can provide over site for IS classes.

3) Desmond Harrison ignored this BYU rule and took a class anyway. Now he and his coaches are upset because BYU is enforcing the rule.

Not sure how BYU is in the wrong here.

DEW Cougars
Sandy, UT

this is old story of how long ago? Move on

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