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Commentary: Texas lineman Desmond Harrison is responsible for his ineligibility, not BYU

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  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 21, 2013 12:46 p.m.

    The real issue here is whether Desmond Harrison answered truthfully whether he was an athlete or not when he registered for the BYU Independent Study class.

    If he didn't, which appears likely, then it really doesn't matter when BYU discovered it, BYU was obligated to enforce the policy.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 21, 2013 11:39 a.m.

    WON84

    "It took so long to act on the policy because the University of Texas is on BYU's schedule this season..."

    Typical BYU-hating response.

    It took so long to act on the policy because BYU didn't discover that Desmond Harrison was a student-athlete until recently.

    BYU doesn't have the time nor resources to investigate every Independent Study student. The policy is clearly stated in the registration procedures and students are expected to answer truthfully whether they're an athlete or not.

    Harrison has only himself, or whoever signed him up for the class, to blame for this fiasco.

  • WON84 PLANO, TX
    Aug. 21, 2013 10:24 a.m.

    "The blame doesn't lay at BYU’s feet — except to ask why it took so long to act on the policy."

    It took so long to act on the policy because the University of Texas is on BYU's schedule this season...

  • Don't Feed the Trolls Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 20, 2013 10:29 p.m.

    "MyPerspective
    Salt Lake City, UT
    As for this article, I am not as quick as Mr Teeples to absolve byu of some measure of culpability in this matter. Again, the NCAA needs to conduct a thorough investigation of byu's online courses and make a call."

    The NCAA did, "make a call," in 2010. It's in the article.

    Ivy league, and such poor reading comprehension. Tsk, tsk.

  • STuFOO Korea, AE
    Aug. 20, 2013 7:55 a.m.

    Two words that this country and everyone in it need to relearn...

    Personal responsibility.

  • Kralon HUNTINGTON BEACH, CA
    Aug. 19, 2013 9:48 p.m.

    I've taken Engineering classes at both BYU and Utah. Utah is justifiably proud of their engineering program and I did enjoy my time there but BYU's classes were more rigorous and competitive.

  • BlueCoug Orem, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 6:44 p.m.

    NevadaCoug

    "Not sure how BYU is in the wrong here."

    BYU isn't in the wrong here; that's the point.

    Instead of accepting the Junior College Credit carte blanche, Texas should have verified all course work independently. It strains credulity that Texas wasn't fully aware of BYU's Independent Study policy concerning non-BYU student athletes.

  • UtahUte91 Sandy, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 6:37 p.m.

    ACT Scores for Utah Colleges (25%/75%)

    Composite - English - Math
    BYU 26/31 - 26/33 - 26/31
    Utah 21/27 - 21/28 - 20/27
    USU 20/26 - 20/27 - 19/26

    Only a desperately biased individual would try to claim that an academic institution whose entrance requirements are 5 points higher, across the board, has a less rigorous curriculum, than the school with the lower academic entrance requirements.

  • Austin Coug Pflugerville, TX
    Aug. 19, 2013 5:41 p.m.

    Well said Tators.

    @ MyPerspective

    If i was to make a bunch of baseless claims denigrating the U of U medical school, football team academics and academics in general at the U of U, i would expect students and alumni of Utah to call me on it and some probably wouldn't be nice about it. Did you really expect a different reaction when you provided so little to back up anything you said?

  • PG #1 FAN Lindon, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 5:25 p.m.

    I am a graduate of Utah because I didn't have the academic credentials to get into BYU. I was consistently near the top of my class at Utah and graduted in 3 years. Although the faculty was great, the academics were just a little better than high school. I know many people in our commumity and I have never heard of someone applying, and being accepted at BYU and not being accepted by Utah. I can give you hundreds of examples of the opposite. BYU is better academically, better students equals better academics, plain and simple.

  • gamer PROVO, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 4:13 p.m.

    BYU has a higher % (78%) of students that are accepted taht choose to attend there than any other school in the USA (including Harvard, and Stanford.

    -BYU's average ACT 28.6
    -Utah's average ACT 24.5

    I personally know well beyond 15-20 kids that scored a 35 or higher on their ACT's currently studying at BYU and many of them and others are currently working in NY at I Banks such as GS, Credit Suisse, JPMorgan etc.

    Many other friends are consulting at Bane as well as Mckinsey. Don't get me wrong I- don't think U of U is a bad academic school. But you can't really compare it to BYU.

    I also have 4 friends currently at the U for medical School. They have all said that Med school is a peace of cake compared to their undergraduate at BYU.

    I was surprised very surprised to hear that.

    see about.com for ACT scores per college

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 3:38 p.m.

    @ MyPerspective:

    In this particular instance, you have become a case study in and of yourself. First of all, you make several off-the-cuff unsubstantiated assertions about the program being "a gimmick", followed by another about the football team ranking so low academically... again totally unsubstantiated. Then you try adding gas to the fire with a "glorified high school" comment about BYU, and then act incredulous when others start questioning where in the heck you are coming from with such obviously biased and invidious statements.
    Go back and reread your posts, and if possible, look at the situation objectively. You vigorously stirred up a hornets nest and then innocently wonder why you are being stung.

    And by the way, Masters programs are supposed to be tougher academically than undergraduate programs. If your graduate work wasn't more difficult there, then the U of U would look very suspect.

    Also interesting is a study released by Harvard a few days ago indicating that BYU is the top 25 in the nation as the choice of high school students academic top echelon. The U of U didn't make the top 110. That is substantiated and actually says something worthwhile.

  • DEW Cougars Sandy, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 3:18 p.m.

    this is old story of how long ago? Move on

  • NevadaCoug Overton, NV
    Aug. 19, 2013 3:12 p.m.

    Some of you are really having a hard time with this concept. Let me try and summarize this so that you can understand.

    1) Michael Oher and others used BYU IS classes to make up high school credits in order to be eligible for college. The NCAA expressed concerns about how fast they were able to take those classes. It was also concerned about over site, namely whether or not those student athletes were really taking the classes. Mainly because of the over site issue, they decided to prohibit student athletes from using such classes as a means to become eligible.

    2) BYU, after looking over their IS program, decided to take further steps to insure student athletes are not abusing the system. They prohibited any non-BYU athlete from taking BYU IS courses as a means of becoming eligible since BYU could not provide over site. This is not a problem for BYU students, since BYU can provide over site for IS classes.

    3) Desmond Harrison ignored this BYU rule and took a class anyway. Now he and his coaches are upset because BYU is enforcing the rule.

    Not sure how BYU is in the wrong here.

  • Ute parents - me Cougar Rathdrum, ID
    Aug. 19, 2013 2:50 p.m.

    Where is Chris?

  • Me, Myself and I The Promised Land, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 2:48 p.m.

    What a cheap shot taken at Urban Meyer. Has he had athletes who have violated the law and come back to play for him yes. Were they just given their second or third chances without any kind of "repentance"? No! They have all taken personal responsibility and earned their way back onto his teams. Every group, company or team etc has people who screw up, make mistakes. some are grievous and intentional others are minor and innocent most are somewhere in between. Do I believe people should get an infinite amount of chances for repeating offenses, no, but they should be given a few. People mess up!

  • Jeff29 Draper, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 2:02 p.m.

    @MyPerspective

    "Makes me wonder what you studied??" Sorry for not providing you with enough details: BYU, Civil and Environmental Engineering, 3.91; U of U, MBA, 4.0. Is that sufficient? BTW, congratulations on your Ivy League degree... "Makes me wonder what you studied??"

    @Who am I Sir?

    I'm sorry if you had a hard time with the rules (rules you knew about and committed to follow before enrolling). I'm also sorry if you only "heard" one truth. I heard many, and I'm guessing you just didn't hear one you liked (the progressive definition of academic freedom and tolerance).

  • Cougar in Texas Houston, TX
    Aug. 19, 2013 11:19 a.m.

    MyPerspective:

    At 6:50 on 8/17 you say: "I did not say all the examples merit a public apology" but at 1:43 you complained: "The result of these events? Not one word of apology from the school...not one".

    So, which is it?

    BYU's comments about AFA blocking techniques do not merit an apology and nobody other than you has ever asked for one.

    Baseball Coach Vance Law was reprimanded by the league for accusing UNM of provoking the fight. Look it up. View the video of the event. It was a scuffle. Perhaps you should apologize for accusing him of starting and participating a fight when he did neither.

    Max provided his own apology for his own actions.

    Which school has ever "apologized" for throwing trash on the court? None. BYU did apologize for the jumbotron incident with USU a few years ago, however.

    And SDSU did not offer a "well worded apology" to BYU. The student leader of "The Show" said that if his sign offended Jimmer, then he apologized. Period.

    And what again makes you an expert on BYU Independent Study?

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 18, 2013 3:43 p.m.

    @Rikitikitavi
    I accepted scholarship. I agreed to conditions. I complied. I moved on many reasons - some were listed. NO BLAME. I just matured.

    @panamadesnews
    " Please do not say things that are not proven. Thank you"
    My proof was rejected twice as "duplicate"; however, the original response has yet to be posted. Here is another abrieviated attempt. "BYU "Character Education" courses that merely required Oher to "read a few brief passages from famous works ... and then answer five questions about it." Lewis dubbed the process "the great Mormon grade-grab." (Blind Side book) and "Some of those athletes and their suitors or coaches have been caught cheating, especially with BYU correspondence."
    "Students trying to get or stay eligible to play sports ... have been found to have improperly taken BYU correspondence courses. ... some athletes didn't know coaches enrolled them in the BYU courses." (Trib article)
    Most posters have blamed peoples honesty - not BYU. Well, BYU is responsible for the difficulty disclosed in Oher's book. And if BYU places that much faith in IS students honesty - I can't comprehend what little control is placed on regular students efforts! NO other school implements zero controls.

  • The Rock Federal Way, WA
    Aug. 18, 2013 9:34 a.m.

    Sure, student athletes should be held accountable. But why the double standard?
    You can get credit if you are not a student athlete, but if you are a student athlete you can't, unless you are a BYU student athlete.

    Give me a break. That is like playing poker and you can't get an inside straight except on Tuesdays.

    If the student did the work and earned the grade then they get credit.
    If the course is not rigorous enough for University credit, then fix it or delete it and nobody gets credit.

  • Eddie Syracuse, UT
    Aug. 18, 2013 7:30 a.m.

    So much of the comments are about my University is better than your University and missing the whole point of the matter!

    This is about HONESTY. What was intended here. Look at what the real problem is. If there is a problem with BYU it is that they are too trusting of people. Is that so wrong? I would much rather be trusted and accomplish things in life honestly than to be dishonest and have to live with that and fight those feeling and try to justify myself when faced with reality.

    So spin all you want, but when you look at the facts and the heart and soul of the problem, it comes down to the individual and what their intentions were (are).

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Aug. 17, 2013 11:26 p.m.

    @myperspective

    The only one being aggressive and attackin is you... Most of the negative responses I read are a result of your attacks against an institution that we are all proud to have attended and one that we believe has very high academic standards... When you call it a "Glorified High School" you are probably going to get that reaction... So please, stop with the whole "Poor Victim " thing.

    You claim that you have worked "for", "with", and have even "supervised" BYU Grads and "none of them taught you anything"... I would submit that that is more a reflection on you than them...

    In fact, if I were recruiting for any of the Corporations that I have worked for and I was considering someone who had worked with or for you (just based on what you have written here) I wouldn't even bother checking you as a reference because I would know that your evaluations and opinions are far from accurate and bubbling over with personal bias.

    The fact that both you and your wife are no longer students at BYU it appears that we have a win-win situation for all.

  • bandersonfam ,
    Aug. 17, 2013 8:52 p.m.

    I got an undergraduate degree from BYU, then a graduate degree from Northwestern University.
    Of course the graduate degree was harder than undergraduate - duh! Most are where ever you go. But the undergraduate education at BYU prepared me very well to work for a doctorate at one of the best universities in the Country.

    On the surface it seems fair to give anyone credit for these classes. But on further reflection -- it makes more sense to only give credit to BYU athletes where they can be monitored and assisted in progressing in their studies. Many universities don't care if their athletes go to class or progress toward graduation. BYU does care. This is one of the programs BYU uses to help lesser students learn to work better to catch up to become real college students.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 17, 2013 7:14 p.m.

    Rikitikitavi

    "If you can't accept reality, stop blaming BYU and man up and move on with your life then you are the real loser."

    And here you are calling someone a "loser" because they disagreed with you.

    Please read my comment above (12:54pm). This is a classic example of what byu people do when others do not conform to their accepted way of thinking...name calling and bullying. The point made by Who am I sir? is displayed right here on this comment board.

    I shared these comments with my wife, a byu undergrad and now holds a PhD and prepares students in her field. She is still laughing at the sense of superiority in which you people wrap yourselves like a security blanket. She is grateful for her education at byu and felt prepared entering the workplace. However, she noted that she was no more prepared than any other student from any other institution.

    She is not the least bit impressed with the arrogance of byu fans.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 17, 2013 6:50 p.m.

    Cougar in Texas
    I did not say all the examples merit a public apology. So, of the three incidents that can by laid at the feet of the institution, which ones did byu stand tall, acknowledge, and make right?? Let's review...

    The comments made by Lamb and Jorgensen were despicable. The ole' others said the same thing doesn't cut it. Is byu responsible for its actions or not? Think about it.

    If byu's coach did not encourage or participate in the fight (not the story I read) what what he reprimanded for?? Of course he "felt" the UNM provoked what you characterize as a "scuffle" (excellent word choice to minimize what occurred). What else would he say?

    Now...about Max Hall-gate and fans throwing trash at referees...

    I know it's shocking to some (i.e., Stufoo) but byu does, in fact, have it's blunders. SDSU stood tall and made their gaff right. byu? Not so much.

    Stufoo wanted examples, there they are.

    Austin Coug
    BYU is a solid educational institution. To state otherwise is disingenuous and uninformed. Great. No problem with the NCAA taking a look, then.

  • Rikitikitavi Cardston, Alberta
    Aug. 17, 2013 6:16 p.m.

    @who am i
    Classic case of blaming the school for the fact that you just did not fit there. Stop blaming BYU and accept the fact that no one forced you to enroll. If you can't accept reality, stop blaming BYU and man up and move on with your life then you are the real loser. Your bulloney carries zero credibility. I attended BYU for four years and loved every minute of my time there. I never once regretted my choice to enroll at such a great University. On point, the fact remains that the BYU honor code is in force and folks in IS can cheat if they choose to cheat. Honorable individuals will benefit from these courses while cheaters are only hurting themselves. Rules is rules and these athletes need to be held accountable for their lack of integrity.

  • Cougar in Texas Houston, TX
    Aug. 17, 2013 3:40 p.m.

    Who Am I Sir?

    I always get a good chuckle from someone who went to Utah then claims they were exposed to so much “diversity” there. You need to get out more.

    MyPerspective

    So when did you take a BYU IS course that makes you such an expert? There are two Texas fans on UT Boards right now who say they've taken courses from BYU IS and support their legitimacy.

    As for BYU not taking responsibility, only 3 of the 5 examples you shared could be laid at the feet of the institution.

    BYU player played 5 games after getting a DUI: As soon as BYU found out, he was suspended. Contrast this to how Utah treated Brett Ratliff's situation.

    Not only did Lamb and Jorgensen complain about AFA's blocking techniques, a whole bunch of other schools did too (and about Navy's as well). To date, no complainant has offered an apology. It was their opinions.

    BYU's baseball coach did not encourage nor participate in a fight. He was reprimanded after a UNM-BYU postgame scuffle when he said he felt that UNM provoked it.

    You'll have to do better than that.

  • Austin Coug Pflugerville, TX
    Aug. 17, 2013 3:26 p.m.

    The negative nancies are missing the point. IS classes at BYU are meant to be taken by the person who enrolled in the class. It is called CHEATING to have someone else do the the work for you. That was the problem and that is what spurned the change. BYU is a solid educational institution. To state otherwise is disingenuous and uninformed. Why would BYU have an average ACT score of 28 for entering freshman if they were a glorified high school?

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Aug. 17, 2013 3:19 p.m.

    SLCWatch has this one exactly right.

  • Cougar in Texas Houston, TX
    Aug. 17, 2013 3:04 p.m.

    horn1

    Any school or program can place eligibility requirements for those taking a class or course it offers. This is routinely done.

    Harrison or his counselor willfully ignored the plain statement on the BYU IS website that the credits are not eligible for student-athlete NCAA qualification.

    Texas’ primary complaint is that other athletes have used the courses to gain NCAA eligibility, therefore so should Harrison. If other athletes did this then they too lied when they took their courses. BYU relies on the honesty of the student to declare whether or not they are a student-athlete. BYU does not double check.

    In this case, someone outed Harrison to BYU. Texas might want to look at some of their conference foes or recruiting rivals as the culprit.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 17, 2013 1:43 p.m.

    STuFOO, per your request...

    -Max Hall-gate
    -byu Football player with DUI played 5 games
    -byu coach (Lamb) and a player making unfounded accusations about Air Force
    -byu baseball coach encouraging his players to, and participating in, a fight
    -Students throw trash at referees (ostensibly because the refs deserved it)
    -Others?

    The result of these events? Not one word of apology from the school...not one.

    Compare that with the prank that SDSU students pulled on byu when they dressed up as missionaries. The byu collective stamped their feet, screamed "religious discrimination," and demanded an apology. byu received an exceptionally well worded, thought out, and sincere apology from SDSU.

    Now, Stufoo, I'm not saying that byu has never apologized for their short comings. But I have demonstrated here that byu has, in fact, made its share of mistakes. Further, I will unequivocally state that I personally have never seen a formal, substantive apology from byu regarding any matter.

    As for this article, I am not as quick as Mr Teeples to absolve byu of some measure of culpability in this matter. Again, the NCAA needs to conduct a thorough investigation of byu's online courses and make a call.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 17, 2013 12:54 p.m.

    Who am I sir?

    Exceptionally well stated!

    What we are seeing on this board is a perfect example of how people are treated who voice opinions that are contrary to what is considered acceptable thinking regarding byu. So far I've been told:

    I am "foolishly attacking" (this from an attorney)
    I was rejected by byu
    I was scorned
    I am Sour grapes
    I am envious
    I was denied admission (my personal favorite)
    I am unable to "capitalize byu" (whatever that means)
    I have a secondary agenda
    I am not as bright as byu students who easily transfer to the Ivy League (epic fail)
    I have not experienced the academic rigor of byu (this article is about byu's online courses that kids sleep through for high school credit)

    Without question, the most amazing part of these comments...I am a faithful member of the same church as the people who are saying this to me.

    I too, am a Utah Man.

  • panamadesnews Lindon, UT
    Aug. 17, 2013 12:38 p.m.

    Who AM I Sir: Where do you get the information that the IS program involves "no work"? Do you have sources that indicate that? I'm not accepting "everyone knows that they require no work" garbage. Please do not say things that are not proven. Thank you.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 17, 2013 12:11 p.m.

    poyman
    Lincoln City, OR

    A glorified high shool eh?... LOL...

    I'm willing to wager that either your's or a family member's application for admission to BYU was rejected at some point of time in the past and that's why we see you foolishly come out and attack the quality of education at BYU...

    Well, you lost the bet...re-read my post. And for the record...I have worked with, for, and over byu grands and they have never taught me anything. Think long and hard about that before you respond.

    4601
    "I too have attended BYU, the U and an Ivy League school. Your experience is vastly different than mine. BYU's academic rigor and bright students compare well with the Ivy League."

    Well, we'll have to agree that we have different experiences then. I started at the U is it true that you started at byu? I found the advanced degrees easier as I moved forward. I don't know what you mean about my inability to "capitalize byu" or your assertion of a "secondary agenda." Just because I'm not singing byu's praises doesn't imply some kind of conspiracy.

  • 4601 Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 17, 2013 11:15 a.m.

    MyPerspective
    Salt Lake City, UT
    I too have attended BYU, the U and an Ivy League school. Your experience is vastly different than mine. BYU's academic rigor and bright students compare well with the Ivy League. The U is not in the running, hence my transfer to the Ivy League. Your inability to capitalize BYU is a not too subtle indication of your secondary agenda.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Aug. 17, 2013 10:54 a.m.

    A glorified high shool eh?... LOL...

    I'm willing to wager that either your's or a family member's application for admission to BYU was rejected at some point of time in the past and that's why we see you foolishly come out and attack the quality of education at BYU...

    I have been in Senior Management with three different Fortune 500 Companies for over 30 years and have rubbed shoulders with Graduates from several Universities and I can tell you unequvically from a Corporate Recruiting Standpoint, BYU runs circles around the Uiversity of Utah... In fact a Bachelors or Graduate Degree from BYU is highly reguarded in the world of Business and in the field of law where I have my expertise... I have a Bachelors Degree from BYU and chose the University of Washington to get my Graduate Degree and both were excellent schools...

    May I suggest that instead of ripping on BYU Academics, that you or whoever was denied admission simply apply to another school with less stringent requirements for admission... Scorn, Sour Grapes and Envy are traits that should be hidden and not publicly displayed.

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 17, 2013 10:46 a.m.

    @Jeff29

    I, too, went to both schools and I agree with you the "school to the south was more difficult". It was very difficult to conform. It was difficult to have someone set the length my Bermuda shorts could be, to disallow sandals, to prohibit any facial hair, to discourage original thoughts. It was difficult to accept their concept of higher education. The premise of higher education was for learned men to gather together to discuss their ideas, beliefs, customs, etc. so that one could learn from them and then establish ones own beliefs. It was not where one should hear only one "truth" - to strengthen that which they already believed. I wanted exposure to others dissimilar to myself - to learn from them - to share with them my knowledge and beliefs. That is why I can say I went to both schools and that I am a "Utah man".

  • STuFOO Korea, AE
    Aug. 17, 2013 10:24 a.m.

    Love how everyone is blaming BYU instead of requiring personal responsibility.

    It is always the institutions fault, when individuals missuses the system.

    That is why our country is in such a mess.

  • horn1 Austin, TX
    Aug. 17, 2013 9:47 a.m.

    Here's the issue at hand.

    BYU SELLS on online college credit program to the public. If they SELL this product to the public, then they are NOT allow to tell that individual what they can or can not do with that college credit. BYU is an accredited university which means their online courses should be up to par. If an individual wants to use that credit to transfer to another college, THEN THAT IS THEIR RIGHT! It is up to the other college to decide if they will accept that credit. It is NOT BYU's place to say who can and who can't take a class; and what they can do with that credit if they are selling it to the public, their students, and to their athletes. The Harrison kid was using the BYU course to graduate from his community college. 1000's of people, athletes and non-athletes do this same thing every year from colleges across the nation. If BYU has an issue or concern with their online standards, then they need to removed their online classes all together and quit SELLING them to the public.

  • Cougar in Texas Houston, TX
    Aug. 17, 2013 9:44 a.m.

    Strider303, Silent Lurker, MyPerspective, and others;

    BYU IS courses have been a great blessing to many, providing real education in a non-traditional environment. Due to illness, my daughter would not have completed high school without it.

    The coursework is entirely valid; however, it relies upon the honesty of the student that he/she actually did the work and not someone else in their place.

    About 10 years ago, many would-be college student-athletes cheated the system and the NCAA decided to no longer accept them toward athletic eligibility. BYU IS has a clear warning at its website explaining this to prospective students as well as explaining that BYU does not certify credits for any form of student-athlete NCAA qualification (because BYU cannot verify that the student did all of his own work). The exception is for enrolled BYU athletes where BYU can control the integrity of the system.

    Those of you denigrating BYU IS have either not used it in the last 6 years, or have no idea how it works. Go ahead and give it a try and then come back and make an informed comment.

  • Silent Lurker Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 17, 2013 9:12 a.m.

    I doubt that BYU intended its independent study program to be a loophole or a sham to get college athletes eligible for college. BYU cannot be held responsible for the acts of others. But the fact remains that a sham is what this has become. BYU also shows a double standard in this situation by allowing it's own athletes/students to participate in this program and not other schools athletes/students. There may be good reasons for this, still it appears that this is a double standard. It is time for BYU to "man up" and take responsibility for having such a loosely run program. BYU clean up this program!

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 17, 2013 8:38 a.m.

    Jeff29
    Draper, UT

    "You can "think" whatever you want about the academic rigors of BYU, but I happen to have a Bachelor's Degree from BYU and a Master's Degree from the U. The school to the south was more difficult."

    So do I and I couldn't disagree more. Makes me wonder what you studied?? btw...I also have a degree from an Ivy League school.

    The point is...byu does a tremendous service in helping kids (especially their own athletes) get through HIGH SCHOOL without working. Well done...well done, indeed!

    The NCAA needs to step in here and conduct a thorough investigation of the academic merits and administration of this so called on-line academic program.

  • STuFOO Korea, AE
    Aug. 17, 2013 8:00 a.m.

    MyPerspective

    "I've long thought of byu as a glorified high school and this situation is a shining example of that assessment."

    Nice to know that you don't have an axe to grind.

    "It's abundantly clear how byu gets its recruits academically qualified and it's equally clear why the football team ranks so low academically. "

    Except college athletes cannot use the program. Nice try to disparage BYU.

    FAIL.

    "byu has a long and distinguished history of taking no responsibility for its shortcomings."

    I love how you infer that there are just so many shortcomings.

    Please! If you had ANY candor, you would name these shortcomings instead of simply stating that there are many.

    FAIL

    For instance:

    u of u swim scandal.

    Try to use words that are actually from "MyPerspective" not trying to make "MyPerspective" some twisted fact.

    then maybe you wouldn't FAIL.

  • SLCWatch Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 11:50 p.m.

    @My Perspective
    You assertion about BYU's football team ranking low academically is wrong.
    Your assertion about BYU qualifying non qualifiers is wrong.
    Go do some research please. We shouldn't have to do it for you.
    You don't understand this issue. Please take time to learn what the issue really is.
    And yes, I am a University of Utah graduate. I take the time to study issues first.
    Don't let your blind bias lead your comments.

  • Jeff29 Draper, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 10:58 p.m.

    @MyPerspecive

    You can "think" whatever you want about the academic rigors of BYU, but I happen to have a Bachelor's Degree from BYU and a Master's Degree from the U. The school to the south was more difficult.

  • BlueHusky Mission Viejo, CA
    Aug. 16, 2013 7:29 p.m.

    In previous comments on another article, the policy was explained more clearly. Still murky though. But the issue is that players can take the course if they are under management (according to the other writer). Therefore, if the kid were on campus, he'd be OK.

    But this was long ago. Let it ride.

  • bribri86 Phoenix, AZ
    Aug. 16, 2013 6:37 p.m.

    I don't see how I could disagree with this article. I wonder if BYU ought to consider why the independent study program is so easy that people getting F's in high school are getting A's in there program. With the facts that have been presented, it's hard to imagine a school who is willing to suspend a star basketball player of it's own for breaking rules and let walk someone who gamed the system. That wouldn't be a very good message to send.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 6:24 p.m.

    timewilltell
    Do you know what else looks bad for byu? A gimmick by a university helping students pass high school classes. I've long thought of byu as a glorified high school and this situation is a shining example of that assessment. It's abundantly clear how byu gets its recruits academically qualified and it's equally clear why the football team ranks so low academically. The players learned how to receive high school grades by doing no work through a university.

    Of course Teeples states that byu is not to blame. byu has a long and distinguished history of taking no responsibility for its shortcomings. A great example of a stand up culture.

    "Clearly byu is in the right." Well said, timewilltell.

  • timewilltell Los Angeles, CA
    Aug. 16, 2013 5:38 p.m.

    Good article Ryan and clearly BYU is in the right. However I really hope they grant Harrison a pass. He is young and made a mistake but to hinder his education and desire to play will certainly look bad for BYU and even Church members. Showing good will can go a long will, this is a Church University after all.

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 4:52 p.m.

    "Everyone in college football knew BYU offered programs that could be exploited to improve grades. It was explained in detail in Michael Lewis’ popular book about Michael Oher, "The Blind Side." They also knew very well when BYU made it unavailable to non-BYU student-athletes in 2006"

    Certainly raises some questions. In 2006 BYU made it unavailable to non-BYU student athletes. Doesn't say BYU changed the program in any other way. Prior to 2006 what a black-eye for BYU when athletes from across the nation were getting passing grades for no effort. Those taking the courses can still get grades for doing no work? Now it appears only BYU student-athletes can take the offered programs! High standards, indeed.

  • Strider303 Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 4:27 p.m.

    Perhaps some information is needed to explain why student-athletes are not eligible to receive credit for the IS courses, while other people are eligible.

    Why are they singled out and excluded? BYU got their money, the class was passed. Who cares if the student is a lineman or stay-at-home mom?

    Three time graduate of the school and still I am amazed at some of the management practices.

  • Eric G ,
    Aug. 16, 2013 4:03 p.m.

    Great article! Besides the severity of the circumstance, is this situation any different than someone coming forward after 3 years and stating that their spouse killed their neighbor? I think the police will still arrest him. Just because the government didn't know about the murder 2 years earlier and issued the murderer a child care license doesn't mean that they shouldn't rescind that license today. But that's the Police's fault right????? The entitled generation will always blame someone else for their mistakes and it makes me sick!