Hatch has gained a few points in my book on this issue. Good for him.I wish I could have gone to this.
the problem concerning the dearth of highly skilled workers is not so much an
immigration problem, but one of our education system. We are too
set on social promotions and teaching self-esteem that we do not teach skills
and the hard sciences in our schools. we do not pay enough to
attract teachers qualified to teach those subjects because the teacher's
unions will not allow pay scales that sufficiently reward such topics, fearing
that will reduce the funds available to pay those who teach the subjects listed
below.too many schools offer degrees in "current events" or
Womens' studies" or "ethnic studies" that have a very narrow
real-world application if any application exists.When the soviets
put Sputnik into orbit, there was a push in our schools to reinforce math and
science; now the only push is school make sure johnny does not bring an aspirin
or wear a t-shirt liberals find offensive.We don't demand
enough from our own kids, which is short-changing them and diming our
nation's future. There are some self-motivated kids who strive to excel,
but the system allows the slackers to bog them down.
Having worked in the High-Tech industry for many years, I can say for every
skilled H1-B person I would want to hire, there are literally dozens of inept,
incompetent H1-B workers being shopped around by consulting companies. Even
those who interview well have turned out to be duds and had serious
communication problems. But even if we could identity highly
skilled high-tech workers to enhance our workforce, what's the point of
Hatch including that with blanket amnesty for millions of unskilled workers who
have nothing to offer? I think Hatch has been hanging out with the wrong crowd
and has gotten some bad advice. Too bad we can't arrange an
intervention.It is foolish for many Republicans to think they are
going to attract votes from former illegal aliens. By angering their base,
they'll actually lose voters and donations. Hatch and other GOP
"leaders" should learn from Democrats who seldom seem to compromise
their liberal stances on social issues to try and attract conservative votes.
Hatch must be getting dizzy from flip flopping so much over this issue.
Every time Hatch says "Yes" to an illegal alien, he is saying
"No" to an unemployed citizen.Let's take a look at the high
end, programmers, engineers and scientists. The narrative goes like this: They
come to the United States and attend our universities and they go home with all
that education because we won't give them a work visa.I say, why are
we educating them in the first place? Why aren't we focusing our education
dollars and scholarship money on our own people? I know some very talented teens
with blond hair and blue eyes who are turned down at ivy league schools because
they aren't "diverse" enough. The kid from Pakistan gets in with
lower bona fides.Similarly, new college grads are pouring coffee and high
tech workers in their 50s are working in call centers because they were
downsized in the recession.At the low end the situation is worse. There
are 27 million adults with high school diploma or less who are not working.
Guess who is taking their jobs?Just say "No" to amnesty.
And the GOP's "shock and awe" campaign against Middle-Class America
rages on. The GOP makes it harder for Middle-Class Americans to attend college
by increasing the cost of student loans and then works feverishly to allow more
foreign workers to take good jobs from Americans. And they wonder why they
can't win the White House.
American education plays into this big time. The public colleges
recruit and prefer non-residents because they can charge them more $$. It
happens across international *and* state lines. Our K-12 system
pretends that everybody needs college, while teaching to the bottom10%. Tech
schools are no more. We used to do "prep schools" for
those who were college-bound, but couldn't quite cut it. We now have
"bonehead" college classes, instead. Colleges should have
admission standards and give some degree of preference to those who have been
supporting them with their local taxes.
We have de facto amnesty, because of Senators like Hatch.A quick
check on the H-1B site shows the visa being used to recruit teachers,
accountants, law clerks, etc. It's not just STEM jobs. And they are paid
much less than local people, with no benefits or insurance. The
"o" visa is for high IQ people. Many Americans in STEM
courses have dropped out because of the H-1B visa. Why take the classes when you
can't find a job? We are destroying our STEM educations future. 300,000 people on visas that are good for 3 years, and can be extended for 3
more. That's 1.8 million people. We don't need immigration reform, we
need new responsible leaders.
I'm sorry, Orrin, but you have to take some of the blame for this mess.
The US should be producing it's own highly skilled workers. Students from
other countries come here better prepared than the average US student. We
should be funding and improving public education rather than defund which Utah
tries to do every election.
Hatch if you would be part of the solution instead of being part of the problem
as you and the rest of the "public servants" in Washington mainly worry
about your own benefit package, then we might not be in this mess.
"edgrady" You do understand (I hope)that the current amnesty bill
ORIGINATED in the Senate? The democratically controlled senate; at the
insistence of Obama.You're 100% correct though that BOTH
parties should be acting in the best interests of lower to middle income
Americans. Hatch and his RINO friends certainly AREN'T doing that. But
then, neither are the democrats. Black leaders have complained, to no avail, to
Obama that with the passage of yet another amnesty bill, their constituents will
lose jobs to illegal aliens.Democrats and RINO's (at the
insistence of their business lobbyist friends) are the ones pushing yet ANOTHER
amnesty.Those of us who are conservatives are doing our VERY BEST to try
to stop them.Care to join us?The "high-tech"
(H1B)visa issues should have been considered totally separate, except that the
"high-tech" companies are dumping huge amounts of lobbying funds into
getting amnesty passed so THEY will benefit also. In other words they
"piggy-backed" their nonsensical legislation on the with the
lower-skilled issue hoping to get it passed!Neither group should
have been given the ability to displace U.S. workers. But thats what is
"Frankly, we're in a state of de facto amnesty, whether you like it or
not," True! I don't know of a single person, conservative
or otherwise who is opposed to allowing highly skilled workers into the
country.Anyone who thinks that Democrats favor amnesty for
altruistic reasons is deluding themselves. If the Democrats thought that they
were losing elections because of the illegal alien vote, they would close that
border and deport every illegal alien in the country so fast it would make your
head spin.Fact is that Republicans have lost several elections by a
margin smaller than the proven illegal alien vote. Any Republican who votes for
the current immigration bills is probably planning to switch parties, completely
I don't understand Hatch on this issue... for one thing, he doesn't
need the Hispanic (or any other ethnic) vote since he will likely not run
again.We should be reserving our higher education slots for
Americans, not foreigners. Foreigners just take their degrees and return home
to compete with the US. And if they don't go home but stay in the US, they
are competing with America's millions of unemployed.Furthermore, we can't pick and choose who shall come here to get
educated. Our US Constitution has a clause --- 'Equal Protection'
(14th Amendment) --- which, to me, means the government must treat everyone
(citizen or not) equally, and cannot pick and choose who it will permit into
this country to study or work, who it will pick to get an education, and who it
will pick to get green cards/amnesty.And further, studies show that
there is NO shortage of STEM graduates in America. Many who graduate in STEM
subjects can't find jobs in their field. So, why are we even fiddling with
H-1B's or any other type of visa?
Oh yes, easy answer, blame it on the GOP!
"Some who participated in the discussion balked at the idea that immigration
reform is being used as a means to pay workers low wages. One reason is that the
H1B visa, allowing an employer to temporarily hire an immigrant worker, requires
that the employer pay the worker at least as much as those in the United States,
Microsoft immigration attorney Jack Chen said."This is NOT true.
There are endless loopholes allowing employers to hire at much lower wages. The
corporate lobbyists wrote the rules and ensured that they became law, so they
benefit from them. Economics 101 and common sense 101: if the supply
of foreign workers are dramatically increased, wages will stagnate. If wages
stagnate, then the incentive for domestic workers to get STEM degrees decreases.
Let’s face it, this immigration thing is a 20th century issue that has
slopped over into the 21st century. The time has come to finally resolve it in
an intelligent fashion, as three-fourths of Americans favor and Obama confronts
head-on. An interesting new worldwide book/ebook by former Salt Laker Lance
Johnson that helps explain the role, struggles, and contributions of immigrants
and minorities is "What Foreigners Need To Know About America From A To Z:
How to Understand Crazy American Culture, People, Government, Business, Language
and More.” It paints a revealing picture of America for anyone who will
benefit from a better understanding. Endorsed by ambassadors, educators, and
editors, it also informs those who want to learn more about the last remaining
superpower and how we compare to other nations on many issues. They
represent 17 percent of all new business owners (in some states more than 30
percent). In fact, forty percent of Fortune 500 companies were started by an
immigrant or a child of an immigrant, creating 10 million jobs and seven out of
ten top brands in our country.
I would like to read a report on how the American citizen college graduates in
the STEM programs in the last three years are doing now. What is their salary,
positions, opportunities, and how many are still looking for good employment. I
know of one American citizen who was an excellent student who is way
underemployed and willing to move even outside of the U.S. to be well employed.
So, where are the jobs for U.S. citizens? Are the schools not teaching the
students what they need to know to be employed? Are the colleges favoring
foreigners at the colleges in school work situations? Anyone with experience
has a better opportunity for employment. I would like to read a broader
interpretation of what is really going on before I will support an immigration
@The Rock:"I don't know of a single person, conservative or
otherwise who is opposed to allowing highly skilled workers into the
country."There's at least one, me.As stated
above, the Constitution says the government must treat everyone with equality
(Equal Protection Clause). The government cannot pick and choose who's let
in and who's not. If the government does pick, it has to be on another
basis such as general predetermined immigration quotas and not what talents or
degrees the immigrant might possess... which would be discriminatory."Anyone who thinks that Democrats favor amnesty for altruistic reasons is
deluding themselves."Whoa! Democrats know full well that they
can (and do) win millions of Hispanic citizen votes by allowing the Hispanic
brothers and sisters to immigrate. There's millions waiting t immigrate
and vote Democrat."If the Democrats thought that they were
losing elections because of the illegal alien vote, they would close that border
and deport every illegal alien in the country so fast it would make your head
spin."Democrats ARE getting the Hispanic vote. That's why
they're against deporting and in favor of borderless, uncontrolled Hispanic
To "sally" read "utes fan" comment above.Many
posters here have referred to the fact that there are plenty of jobs for STEM
graduates but employers prefer to "import" a person for one-third the
salary of what (6 yrs?) of education in U.S. colleges SHOULD be paid.In other words employers would PREFER Orrin Hatch let them employ a foreign
national at 30k per year for instance, rather than pay a U.S. citizen 60 or
70K.All the "high-tech" employers are trying to do is lobby
the Senate RATHER than pay decent (deserved) wages to Americans.
@Utes Fan:"There are endless loopholes allowing employers to hire at
much lower wages."True. And even if there weren't
loopholes, the government wouldn't go after employers who paid lower wages
to illegals. Face it, the government can't even find the energy to go
after employers who fail to use E-Verify and illegally hire illegals.@Ajax:"I'm sure you think your screen name is very clever
(BO/Barack Obama/Body Odor). It is, however, offensive to many and in very poor
taste."Deal with it. That's his initials. Besides, I used
his full name (Barrack Husein Obama) in a post when he first ran for pres and
the DNews monitors denied my post until I changed it to simply Barrack Obama.
Then, after his inauguration ceremony where he used 'Barrack Hussein
Obama' it suddenly became OK to use his full name... Go figure.Speaking of poor taste... using all three names is poor taste since he has
moved our country to almost certain ruin. Remember, he's from Kenya and
his ancestry are all Muslim.
@ AjaxWhat I find offensive is Hatch catering to foreign interests and big
money when he is supposed to be representing the citizens of his district and
protecting the interests of the United States.I'm sorry you were
distracted by my screen name and lost the message I was sending as a result.I'm going to guess you are pro-amnesty.
"We're growing as quickly as I can hire good people," said Dave
Elkington, chief executive officer of Insidesales.com.I do not buy
this. Many engineers were laid off from the company I work for a while back.
After a few months, some were able to find jobs. Now six months later some a
still struggling without work. These people have experience and degrees in
electrical engineering and computer science.I cannot help but wonder
if these companies are not mainly looking for people who will work longer hours
for less money and then can be easily let go once they are not needed any
For local DN commenters who may not know, to equate President Barack Obama with
body oder is more than crass, it is blatantly racist.
@Ajax:"I'm sure you think your screen name is very clever
(BO/Barack Obama/Body Odor). It is, however, offensive to many and in very poor
taste."Wait a minute... I posted Obama as 'Barack Hussein
Obama' during his campaign and the DNews monitors had a hissy fit denying
the post... Then comes the Inauguration where he uses his full name in his oath
of office. Now it's OK to use 'Hussein.' Go figure.I
think the monitors expect you to write as if you're penning a speech for
Sacrament Meeting. Some of my posts are so horrifying they don't even
e-mail back saying 'denied.' On others it 'head scratching'
to decipher what the denial reason was.I'm toying with moving
to the Trib.
But Orrin, with all of these illegals you support........why wouldn't they
be the skilled workers you speak of.......your foolish!