Comments about ‘BYU among top 25 choices for high-performing high schoolers, study says’

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Published: Thursday, Aug. 15 2013 8:15 p.m. MDT

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Just the FAX
Olympus Cove, Utah

christy

"Utah has a far better football program than BYU"

The facts prove otherwise:

National Championships
BYU 1
Utah 0

Heisman Trophies
BYU 1
Utah 0

AP Top 25 Finishes
BYU 17
Utah 5

National Individual Awards
BYU 15
Utah 0

National Hall of Fame Players
BYU 6
Utah 0

By every meaningful measure on a national scale, BYU dwarfs Utah and it's twin flash-in-the-pan seasons.

And that's just football.

Comparing overall athletic programs:

BYU has beaten Utah 20 out of 20 years in the NADCA Directors' Cup standings, which measures overall athletic success across all men's and women's sports.

MWC Championships
BYU 140
Utah 49

Eddie Would Go
FPO, AE

BYU clearly is doing many things right to be on this list. Congratulations to my Alma Mater!

But I can't help but think that BYU would drop precipitously on this list if its tuition was in line with the other schools...

anti BCS
Anaheim, CA

chrissy

"All sports don't drive the conference shuffle. Football does."

During the Bronco/Kyle era

Top 25 Finishes
BYU 5
Utah 4

AP Top 25 Finishes
BYU 4
Utah 2

Top 15 Finishes
BYU 3
Utah 1

Conference Championships
BYU 2
Utah 1

10+ Win Seasons
BYU 5
Utah 3

Bowls
Bronco 8
Kyle 7

But, there are a few categories Kyle excels in:

Losing Seasons
Bronco 0
Kyle 1 (and counting)

Losses to 10-loss teams
Bronco 0
Kyle 2

Losses to bottom-dwelling conference opponents - Wyoming, CSU, UNM, UNLV, and Colorado
Bronco UNDEFEATED
Kyle Yes (some more than once)

Solomon the Wise
Alpine, UT

silent stalker

"I guess they havn"t heard about BYU independent study program."

Why would "high-performing high schoolers" need to worry about being non-qualifiers?

btw,

The average ACT score for freshman admitted to BYU for fall 2013 was 28.5.

ACT scores of students enrolled in 2013, 25th/75th percentile

Composite
BYU 26/31
Utah 21/27

Math
BYU 26/31
Utah 20/27

English
BYU 26/33
Utah 21/28

It's not even disputable that the average undergraduate BYU student is much more accomplished academically than their Utah counterparts.

Go Utes
Salt Lake City, UT

@ SSmith

You said "The one thing all BYU and U of U students have in common: they all applied to BYU."

I fit right into your statistic, but not in the way your arrogant mind thinks. I applied to BYU, got accepted, and went to the U. My wife (who I met while at the U and married in the temple) did the same. Get off your high horse.

Turning down BYU to go to the U was one of the best decisions I have ever made. I don't see how any LDS kid who really loves living gospel standards would want to go to BYU. There are so many better options. I wonder how this study would change if there weren't hundreds of misguided ecclesiastical leaders and parents perpetuating the myth that BYU is a better place for their high schoolers to go.

Go Utes
Salt Lake City, UT

@ Rockwell

You said: "BYU has a national fan base and a national studentbody. Utah has a local fan base and a commuter studentbody."

This "national fan base" or "Cougar nation" myth is always amusing. How many people nationally who are not BYU alumni or Mormon follow BYU? Having Mormon kids come from around the country to school and then go back home does not make a national fan base. Ohio State, Florida, Notre Dame, etc. have a large following of folks who never went there and have no affiliation with the place other than they like cheering for them. THAT is a national fan base. The fact that you have fans in states other than Utah does not constitute a national fan base.

I wonder how many of these kids would go to BYU if they did not have parents and/or ecclesiastical leaders pushing it from the time they were children. This is a chicken and egg thing. Just because these kids end up at BYU does not mean it is a better school. It is a fine school, yet, but please, stop with the arrogance.

Wiscougarfan
River Falls, WI

RE: Crispy

"Utah has a far better football program than byu. All sports don't drive the conference shuffle. Football does."

You make an interesting argument. There's no question that BYU's athletic program is currently (and has been for a very long time) vastly superior to Utah's, and it is debatable which school currently has the better football program (although I suspect that if you did a national poll BYU would win hands-down).

So the question is... Is football so important that it trumps everything else combined? I'd love to hear your honest opinion on that. Cheers.

Go Utes
Salt Lake City, UT

@ Just the FAX and anti BCS,

Funny, with how vastly superior BYU football obviously is (I am cowering under the force of your logic and amazing fact lists), you'd think BYU could beat Utah on a regular basis. It must stink regularly losing to that horrible, bottom-dwelling program up north.

Max
Charlotte, NC

I'm a BYU grad and have lived all over the country. There is no doubt that BYU enjoys a solid academic reputation. However, I do tire of the smugness and self-righteousness of some (not most) of my fellow grads. The fact is that these studies are quite meaningless. All this is really saying is that LDS students have a strong preference for BYU and the strength of that preference rivals the strength of preference non-LDS students have for other schools. What a surprise!

Uteanymous
Salt Lake City, Utah

Go Utes

BYU having a national fan base and a national studentbody, and Utah having a local fan base and a commuter studentbody is absolutely TRUE!

66% of BYU's students are from out of state and BYU has 10s of thousands of alumni living throughout the United States.

83% of Utah's students are from Utah, only 10% live on campus, the majority of Utah students remain in the state after attending Utah, and Utah Alumni chapters outside of Utah are puny by comparison to BYU's.

STuFOO
Korea, AE

Chris B

"Utah has a far better football program than BYU."

Two things...

1. Who was rated higher in the last year poll? AND the year before?(one games does not a season make.)

2. You won't even have scoreboard after this year, and you'll have a losing season. Again.

You can pipe out all you want about utah being a better program...

Simply isn't true.

utah is in decline, and the only people who can't see it are the "PAC 12 chest beaters" and the "we beat you" crowds.

The rest of the nation has already forgotten about u.

STuFOO
Korea, AE

Go Utes

"This "national fan base" or "Cougar nation" myth is always amusing. How many people nationally who are not BYU alumni or Mormon follow BYU?"

says the guy living in SLC and went to the u.

"Having Mormon kids come from around the country to school and then go back home does not make a national fan base."

What?! Why not, they are national, and they are a fan base. Look at any road game Bball or football and you will see the fan base.

I travel ALL over the world and every where I go I meet people who are fans of BYU, many who are not LDS.

"I wonder how this study would change if there weren't hundreds of misguided ecclesiastical leaders and parents perpetuating the myth that BYU is a better place for their high schoolers to go."

Love this line. Sounds like someone bitter.

"but please, stop with the arrogance."

I will when you will. Your whole comment was filled with arrogance.

I WANT my kids to go to BYU, my bishop wants them to go to Nebraska.

STuFOO
Korea, AE

Go utes,

"you'd think BYU could beat Utah on a regular basis. It must stink regularly losing to that horrible, bottom-dwelling program up north."

Naw, its just one game.

this year u'll be licking those wounds for two years mumbling....

"but we won two BCS bowls..."

Kings Court
Alpine, UT

BYU is a private school and private schools are always better than public schools. Sorry U of U, but you are just a lowly public school.

54-10
Salt Lake City, UT

Got my diploma from BYU. Both of them.

And proud of it. Great academic institution.

cpafred
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

Max is correct when he says above that "these studies are quite meaningless. All this is really saying is that LDS students have a strong preference for BYU and the strength of that preference rivals the strength of preference non-LDS students have for other schools."

BYU's freshmen ACT scores GPA's and admit rates are worse than several UC schools' freshmen profiles:
Ave ACT Ave GPA Admit Rate
UC Berkeley 30 4.16 21.5%
UCLA 30 4.11 22.1%
UC San Diego 29 4.07 37.7%
UC Davis 28 4.03 44.6%
UC Santa Bar 28 3.96 45.3%
BYU 28 3.81 55%
UC Irvine 27 4.02 42.4%

Do you people seriously think a resume of a BYU grad equates with a UC Berkeley grad's resume (particularly in the all-important STEM areas)?

runnerguy50
Virginia Beach, Va

Utah Rugby, I'd like to hear more on why you feel like you do. Thanks.

Shabba
san mateo, CA

Byu obviously does compare well to the UC schools. Are you telling me that because their ACT scores are as high as half the schools you list, and only slightly lower than the top four. You also can't compare GPAs very well because in CA the grade point scale goes ABOVE 4.

It's typical Bay Area snobbery by the Berkeley folks. I've lived here all my life and seen it and dealt with it first hand. It has much more to do with a hatred for religion than anything else. And when I say hatred I really mean it, no exaggeration.

I went to BYU for undergrad (I was accepted at several PAC schools and turned them all down), and did a master's in engineering at Columbia. My degree at Columbia wasn't any more rigorous than what I went through at BYU.

Good job Utes on getting into the PAC 12. The facts speak for themslves though. BYU is a great school with a great athletic program.

Steven S Jarvis
Orem, UT

@Go Utes

"I don't see how any LDS kid who really loves living gospel standards would want to go to BYU."

This is by far one of the most unusual things I have heard. From that one statement it sounds like you are a Ute fan by default of Utah not being BYU. I doubt I can convey to you why BYU is so special, and attracts high performing students, not just the LDS ones.

I chose BYU BECAUSE I love living the gospel standards. There really is no other school that offers a full BYU experience with academics, people smiling at you all the time, athletics, seeing General Authorities walking on campus and many other things that are meaningful to kids who love living the gospel standards.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@Cougsndawgs
Actually BYU isn't good enough academically... in the sense that it doesn't have a tier 1 research institution status like the 12 PAC-12 schools do.

I'm not surprised BYU is high on this list. After all, there's that joke "Harvard is my fallback". If it weren't fulfilling the niche role of being the primary LDS school in the nation/world it would be much lower on the list. I don't say that as a good or bad thing since I don't think it's either, it's just the context of the situation.

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