@CougsndawgsActually BYU isn't good enough academically... in the
sense that it doesn't have a tier 1 research institution status like the 12
PAC-12 schools do. I'm not surprised BYU is high on this list.
After all, there's that joke "Harvard is my fallback". If it
weren't fulfilling the niche role of being the primary LDS school in the
nation/world it would be much lower on the list. I don't say that as a good
or bad thing since I don't think it's either, it's just the
context of the situation.
@Go Utes"I don't see how any LDS kid who really loves
living gospel standards would want to go to BYU."This is by far
one of the most unusual things I have heard. From that one statement it sounds
like you are a Ute fan by default of Utah not being BYU. I doubt I can convey
to you why BYU is so special, and attracts high performing students, not just
the LDS ones.I chose BYU BECAUSE I love living the gospel standards.
There really is no other school that offers a full BYU experience with
academics, people smiling at you all the time, athletics, seeing General
Authorities walking on campus and many other things that are meaningful to kids
who love living the gospel standards.
Byu obviously does compare well to the UC schools. Are you telling me that
because their ACT scores are as high as half the schools you list, and only
slightly lower than the top four. You also can't compare GPAs very well
because in CA the grade point scale goes ABOVE 4.It's typical
Bay Area snobbery by the Berkeley folks. I've lived here all my life and
seen it and dealt with it first hand. It has much more to do with a hatred for
religion than anything else. And when I say hatred I really mean it, no
exaggeration.I went to BYU for undergrad (I was accepted at several
PAC schools and turned them all down), and did a master's in engineering at
Columbia. My degree at Columbia wasn't any more rigorous than what I went
through at BYU.Good job Utes on getting into the PAC 12. The facts
speak for themslves though. BYU is a great school with a great athletic
Utah Rugby, I'd like to hear more on why you feel like you do. Thanks.
Max is correct when he says above that "these studies are quite meaningless.
All this is really saying is that LDS students have a strong preference for BYU
and the strength of that preference rivals the strength of preference non-LDS
students have for other schools."BYU's freshmen ACT scores
GPA's and admit rates are worse than several UC schools' freshmen
profiles: Ave ACT Ave GPA Admit RateUC Berkeley 30
4.16 21.5%UCLA 30 4.11 22.1%UC
San Diego 29 4.07 37.7%UC Davis 28 4.03
44.6%UC Santa Bar 28 3.96 45.3%BYU 28
3.81 55%UC Irvine 27 4.02 42.4%Do you
people seriously think a resume of a BYU grad equates with a UC Berkeley
grad's resume (particularly in the all-important STEM areas)?
Got my diploma from BYU. Both of them. And proud of it. Great
BYU is a private school and private schools are always better than public
schools. Sorry U of U, but you are just a lowly public school.
Go utes,"you'd think BYU could beat Utah on a regular
basis. It must stink regularly losing to that horrible, bottom-dwelling program
up north."Naw, its just one game.this year
u'll be licking those wounds for two years mumbling...."but
we won two BCS bowls..."
Go Utes"This "national fan base" or "Cougar
nation" myth is always amusing. How many people nationally who are not BYU
alumni or Mormon follow BYU?"says the guy living in SLC and went
to the u."Having Mormon kids come from around the country to
school and then go back home does not make a national fan base."What?! Why not, they are national, and they are a fan base. Look at any road
game Bball or football and you will see the fan base.I travel ALL
over the world and every where I go I meet people who are fans of BYU, many who
are not LDS."I wonder how this study would change if there
weren't hundreds of misguided ecclesiastical leaders and parents
perpetuating the myth that BYU is a better place for their high schoolers to
go."Love this line. Sounds like someone bitter."but please, stop with the arrogance."I will when you
will. Your whole comment was filled with arrogance.I WANT my kids
to go to BYU, my bishop wants them to go to Nebraska.
Chris B"Utah has a far better football program than BYU."Two things...1. Who was rated higher in the last year poll?
AND the year before?(one games does not a season make.) 2. You
won't even have scoreboard after this year, and you'll have a losing
season. Again.You can pipe out all you want about utah being a
better program...Simply isn't true.utah is in
decline, and the only people who can't see it are the "PAC 12 chest
beaters" and the "we beat you" crowds.The rest of the
nation has already forgotten about u.
Go UtesBYU having a national fan base and a national studentbody,
and Utah having a local fan base and a commuter studentbody is absolutely
TRUE!66% of BYU's students are from out of state and BYU has
10s of thousands of alumni living throughout the United States.83%
of Utah's students are from Utah, only 10% live on campus, the majority of
Utah students remain in the state after attending Utah, and Utah Alumni chapters
outside of Utah are puny by comparison to BYU's.
I'm a BYU grad and have lived all over the country. There is no doubt that
BYU enjoys a solid academic reputation. However, I do tire of the smugness and
self-righteousness of some (not most) of my fellow grads. The fact is that these
studies are quite meaningless. All this is really saying is that LDS students
have a strong preference for BYU and the strength of that preference rivals the
strength of preference non-LDS students have for other schools. What a surprise!
@ Just the FAX and anti BCS,Funny, with how vastly superior BYU
football obviously is (I am cowering under the force of your logic and amazing
fact lists), you'd think BYU could beat Utah on a regular basis. It must
stink regularly losing to that horrible, bottom-dwelling program up north.
RE: Crispy"Utah has a far better football program than byu. All
sports don't drive the conference shuffle. Football does."You make an interesting argument. There's no question that BYU's
athletic program is currently (and has been for a very long time) vastly
superior to Utah's, and it is debatable which school currently has the
better football program (although I suspect that if you did a national poll BYU
would win hands-down). So the question is... Is football so
important that it trumps everything else combined? I'd love to hear your
honest opinion on that. Cheers.
@ RockwellYou said: "BYU has a national fan base and a national
studentbody. Utah has a local fan base and a commuter studentbody."This "national fan base" or "Cougar nation" myth is
always amusing. How many people nationally who are not BYU alumni or Mormon
follow BYU? Having Mormon kids come from around the country to school and then
go back home does not make a national fan base. Ohio State, Florida, Notre
Dame, etc. have a large following of folks who never went there and have no
affiliation with the place other than they like cheering for them. THAT is a
national fan base. The fact that you have fans in states other than Utah does
not constitute a national fan base. I wonder how many of these kids
would go to BYU if they did not have parents and/or ecclesiastical leaders
pushing it from the time they were children. This is a chicken and egg thing.
Just because these kids end up at BYU does not mean it is a better school. It
is a fine school, yet, but please, stop with the arrogance.
@ SSmithYou said "The one thing all BYU and U of U students have
in common: they all applied to BYU."I fit right into your
statistic, but not in the way your arrogant mind thinks. I applied to BYU, got
accepted, and went to the U. My wife (who I met while at the U and married in
the temple) did the same. Get off your high horse. Turning down
BYU to go to the U was one of the best decisions I have ever made. I don't
see how any LDS kid who really loves living gospel standards would want to go to
BYU. There are so many better options. I wonder how this study would change if
there weren't hundreds of misguided ecclesiastical leaders and parents
perpetuating the myth that BYU is a better place for their high schoolers to go.
silent stalker"I guess they havn"t heard about BYU
independent study program."Why would "high-performing high
schoolers" need to worry about being non-qualifiers?btw,The average ACT score for freshman admitted to BYU for fall 2013 was
28.5.ACT scores of students enrolled in 2013, 25th/75th
percentileCompositeBYU 26/31Utah 21/27MathBYU 26/31Utah 20/27EnglishBYU 26/33Utah 21/28It's not even disputable that the average
undergraduate BYU student is much more accomplished academically than their Utah
chrissy"All sports don't drive the conference shuffle.
Football does."During the Bronco/Kyle eraTop 25
FinishesBYU 5Utah 4AP Top 25 FinishesBYU 4Utah 2Top 15 FinishesBYU 3Utah 1Conference
ChampionshipsBYU 2Utah 110+ Win SeasonsBYU 5Utah 3BowlsBronco 8Kyle 7But, there are a
few categories Kyle excels in:Losing SeasonsBronco 0Kyle
1 (and counting)Losses to 10-loss teamsBronco 0Kyle 2Losses to bottom-dwelling conference opponents - Wyoming, CSU, UNM,
UNLV, and ColoradoBronco UNDEFEATEDKyle Yes (some more than once)
BYU clearly is doing many things right to be on this list. Congratulations to
my Alma Mater! But I can't help but think that BYU would drop
precipitously on this list if its tuition was in line with the other schools...
christy"Utah has a far better football program than BYU"The facts prove otherwise:National ChampionshipsBYU
1Utah 0Heisman TrophiesBYU 1Utah 0AP
Top 25 FinishesBYU 17 Utah 5National Individual
AwardsBYU 15Utah 0National Hall of Fame PlayersBYU
6Utah 0By every meaningful measure on a national scale, BYU
dwarfs Utah and it's twin flash-in-the-pan seasons.And
that's just football.Comparing overall athletic programs:BYU has beaten Utah 20 out of 20 years in the NADCA Directors' Cup
standings, which measures overall athletic success across all men's and
women's sports.MWC ChampionshipsBYU 140Utah 49
I guess they havn"t heard about BYU independent study program.That gets non
qualifier students into BYU.
@Cougsndawgs:"BYU had far better athletic credentials than
Utah"Utah has a far better football program than byu. All sports don't drive the conference shuffle. Football
does.In the last 10 years Utah has multiple undefeated seasons,
multiple top 5 finishes, multiple BCS bowls, multiple BCS wins.Does
byu have any of those?No. Utah is clearly the premier
football program in the state, and thus was extended an invite to the Pac 12.If byu had multiple undefeated top 5 seasons in the last 5 years, I bet
a BCS conference would have come calling.But you don't. So they didn't.
MormonUte:If it's an athletic conference than why are academics and
research criteria to get in? It's not just an athletic conference...if
that's the case than BYU had far better athletic credentials than Utah.
It's as much about academics as athletics. To believe otherwise is to
avoid/dispute the evidence right in front of us.
BYU is an interesting enigma for sure. You get kids who have good enough
grades/test scores to go to Harvard, but they choose to go to BYU because they
would never meet enough LDS members of the opposite sex at Harvard to be able to
get married.The "nationally diverse" student body isn't
there because BYU is a destination university, it's because a bright LDS
girl from New Hampshire doesn't like only having 6 LDS guys to choose from
EsquireSpringville, UTNot crowing or denigrating. Defending.
BYU doesn't get a lot of respect from a select group, occasionally
deservedly so. Maybe I should have thicker skin, but the steady drumbeat about
a certain university suddenly being superior because it belongs to a conference
that is superior is getting just a little monotonous. For what it is
worth, I live in Washington State University country, and the good that
university does for eastern Washington is immeasurable. May not have the
greatest football team, and they probably didn't make this top 25 list, but
a marvelous place. And I DO think this is the year they'll take
Truth machine,I didn't ask for it both ways. I have no idea
why BYU didn't get invited to the Pac 12, but I do know this .... the Pac
12 is an athletic conference.
Congratulations to BYU! Go Cougs!
Pendergast"Couldn't athletics be considered the *vain
things of this world*?"You can be the ironic judge of that if
you like; just remember, let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
JoeBlow"MY point was that I would bet that a HUGE percentage of
LDS kids in the study chose BYU. Conversely, I doubt that the
majority of Catholic students would choose Notre Dame."Catholic
kids have dozens of Catholic schools to choose from, but there are also 10 times
more Cathlic kids than LDS kids, but none of your deflecting invalidates the
results of the study.BYU has a national fan base and a national
studentbody.Utah has a local fan base and a commuter studentbody.It's no surprise that in a national study of high performing high
schoolers, BYU would be ranked in the Top 25 and Utah wouldn't even be
ranked in the top 110.
JoeBlow: "MY point was that I would bet that a HUGE percentage
of LDS kids in the study chose BYU. Conversely, I doubt that the majority of
Catholic students would choose Notre Dame. That would skew the results"No it wouldn't. The study is about smart kids and which college
they choose to attend. Why would the fact that many Mormons often choose BYU
skew those results? Smart kids. Which college they attend. How does religion
skew that relationship? I find it laughable you think the fact that Mormons
often attend byu has "skewed" the results. I'm glad that this
bothers you though. I'm glad that this further evidence that BYU students
are significantly smarter than other Utah students bothers you. Thanks for
bringing me this joy.
I think BYU should be on the list around that level. Problem is the article is
a little vague on the stats. It says 3,000 top students were surveyed. When
you scatter the numbers top to bottom, it may only take 1% or 30 students to
make #21. The top 10 probably got 75% of the students. It would be hard to
expect BYU to even be listed as a choice for the students that want college to
be a party. These may be the nerds, but they are still teenagers.
Mormon Ute"Note to BYU alumni, this has nothing to do with
athletics..."Actually, it has a lot to do with athletics, as
Utah fans are constantly beating their chests about Utah's invitation to
the PAC, even though the main criteria cited for BYU NOT being invited to the
PAC was "supposedly" academics.Sorry, but you can't
have it both ways.
to skywalkerCouldn't athletics be considered the *vain things
of this world*?I love irony.
per JohnInSLCIt sounds like something OU, Texas, or Ohio State would
do... so yeah.... that is top tier.
downtown424 - "Why isn't there a link to the actual study, or the full
list, in the article?"The actual study is in the Quarterly
Journal of Economics and requires a subscription. Without paying all you get is
an abstract. The best summary I've found shows the top 30 and is on
BYU's news site. Unfortunately DN won't let me put a link in a
comment, so look for BYU News and the title is "An Academic Ranking of
RE: Mormon UteIn discussion boards, people discuss things.
Sometimes those topics deviate from the intended purpose of the article.
Sometimes, when articles are posted in the sports section of the paper/website,
fans will choose to talk about athletics.
MY point was that I would bet that a HUGE percentage of LDS kids in the study
chose BYU. Conversely, I doubt that the majority of Catholic
students would choose Notre Dame.That would skew the results.
Anon0101"Highly doubt these kids know anything about BYU other
than it is religious and they have good sports."Highly doubtful
you have any evidence whatsoever to support your fallacious claim.
ekute"Pacific *Athletic* Conference"The National
Association of Directors of College Athletics (NADCA) Directors' Cup honors
institutions maintaining a broad-based athletic program, achieving success in
many sports, both men’s and women’s.In the 20-year
history of the Directors' Cup Utah has NEVER finished ahead of BYU in the
standings. In fact, BYU's average finish for the last 20 years is higher
than Utah has ever finished.Final Directors' Cup Standings for
2013#43 BYU 505.00 points#77 Utah 261.25 pointsBYU
received points in 10 sports: M Cross-Country, Football, W Soccer, W Volleyball,
W Gymnastics, M Golf, Softball, M Tennis, M Track & Field, and M
VolleyballUtah only received points in 4 sports: W Gymnastics,
Skiing, M Swimming, and W Track & FieldAs far as quality of
athletics goes, BYU has dominated Utah in overall athletic excellence for
Note to BYU alumni, this has nothing to do with athletics (i.e. the Pac 12). How
sad to see some of you show your true colors of jealousy and put down other
univeristies when you should be taking a moment to celebrate your own successes.
Take joy in what BYU does well and be happy about that without belittling
others. You're setting a poor example for others.
A link to the study can be found on BYU's home page. There are a couple of
points about the article that should be made. First, the authors of the study
came from multiple institutions including Harvard, Stanford and Boston
University. Second, BYU should not be referred to as a Utah school. It is a
school that is located in Utah but, unlike the state universities, most of its
students are not from Utah. BYU has a very unique mission that is attractive to
a very selective group of students who tend to be high-achieving. Students may
choose to go to BYU for reasons other than academics.
@ JohnInSLC:Yes, many of us already read the article you mentioned.
But most of us are also informed enough to know that a very small student
athlete issue regarding an online course restricted by NCAA athletic department
rules doesn't have anything to do with this broader based high achievers
study. Only a ute troll with a personal bias would think otherwise. And out of
36 posts so far, only 1 has. As such, the only LOL is on you.
@ CougsndawgsMy bad, I misread your original post. I agree with you 100%
that we're better off not being in the PAC12, partly because of the
academic, religious, and political snobbery that takes place among the movers
and shakers in the conference. The Big 12 would be a much better fit... but
until then independence is working out much better than I expected (I admit I
hated the idea when it was first announced). @ NeuronI've
also lived, studied, and taught at several universities outside of Utah and my
experience has been similar to yours. BYU enjoys a well-deserved reputation for
producing outstanding students and employees. @ BYU Rugby I
don't understand why you'd discourage out-of-staters from going to the
Y, I believe the BYU experience is unlike what you'll find anywhere else
and I hope my kids choose to go there. As a current institute teacher (and a
former institute teacher at another Big 10 school) I know that we can't
replicate what BYU has... or what is offered at the UofU, UVU, and USU
institutes. In "in-the-bubble" experience can be really great for
Interesting. For years Harvard University has sent representatives to high
schools just to encourage students to apply knowing full well that the vast
majority could not qualify. The biggest data manipulator seeks to eliminate
data manipulation. Now that is news.The most selective universities
are determined by the percentage of students who apply that actually get
admitted. That is a bit more difficult to prevent data manipulation.If you want to get into Harvard you need a 4.0, must be student body president
and drum major in the band. Harvard Universities make the university, it is not
the other way around.
@ JoeBlow:No need to get real, since the study itself is already
real and already acclaimed for it's legitimacy. If you could read without
bias, you'd understand that religious affiliation is only ONE of many
factors in the study for all schools... including BYU. To contend otherwise is
stating something not found in the study itself and exposes a personal bias.
re: hymn to the silentByu isn't even the Northwestern of Utah
to thebigsamoanGood catch. to CougsndawgsPlease. Harvard and the rest of the Ivy League (Cornell may be the exception.
It sure isn't Brown) are there to tweak the status quo so only the 1%
benefit. I'm no fan of the NorCal Bay area schools but they are
hot beds of innovation. Same for MIT!As for byu being popular; my
theory? If you want to be a attorney or accountant then why not go where the
conformity degrees are emphasized.
Should rename the study to say, the 25 most popular schools in the country.
Highly doubt these kids know anything about BYU other than it is religious and
they have good sports.
Cougsndawgs,Pacific *Athletic* Conference.
Having been at multiple major universities (including BYU and Duke) for my
education, training, and work, in my experience BYU students are among the most
impressive I've been around. I'd put them solidly up there with Duke
(which coincidentally ranks just a couple spots above BYU in this article). The
average caliber of BYU students might not be quite up to Harvard, Yale, MIT, or
Stanford standards but it's close. There's a reason why BYU is one of
the top schools for producing students who go on to earn PhDs.Further, BYU is considered a top tier university by all within academia
I've been around. I know many universities, programs (medical, dental), and
individuals who go out of their way to recruit students who went to BYU (even
going as far as putting them on a special fast track for admission). People who
doubt the respect that BYU and BYU students have should spend time with
graduate/professional admissions committees at institutions around the country.
SSmith; nice joke, however, I never applied to BYU. I did go to the UofU.
Wiscougarfan:I know Utah is a tier 1 research school and BYU is not.
You've seen me post this multiple times. My insinuations came from the fact
that the PAC 12 was more than happy to look the other way on non tier 1 schools,
as you pointed out, and are obviously oblivious to the other academic qualities
a university possesses (which is no surprise, again, considering these schools
create their own prestige and hype). Everyone knows Utah is t1 and BYU is not in
terms of research. I'm simply pointing to how snooty and biased the PAC12s
vision is toward schools that obviously have merit but don't fit their
liberal view of research and academics.I've also said before: I
don't think BYU is a good fit for the PAC12 so this isn't sour grapes
or wanting BYU to be a member. Like U and many others, I feel the Big 12 is a
better fit. I've also said Utah deserved their invite based on what the
conference wanted, so congrats to them.
Here're the top 25 rankings from the article. BYU is the only Utah school
in the full table (110 schools).1Harvard University2Caltech3Yale University4MIT5Stanford University6Princeton
University7Brown University8Columbia University9Amherst
College10Dartmouth11Wellesley College12University of
Pennsylvania13University of Notre Dame14Swarthmore College15Cornell University16Georgetown University17Rice University18Williams College19Duke University20University of Virginia21Brigham Young University22Wesleyan University23Northwestern
University24Pomona College25Georgia Institute of Technology
An article about nerds and some of you turn it into vs Utah and the Pac12.
2nd comment ... I must agree with downntown424, Esquire, and
strangethingintheland -- where is the study?! I did a cursory Google search, as
well as searching on Harvard's website, but haven't yet found
anything. Author Emma Penrod, please do tell!
"After surveying more than 3,000 high-achieving high schoolers, the authors
ranked Harvard, Caltech, Yale and MIT as the nation's four most popular
schools [for high-performing high schoolers]. BYU ranked just after Duke and the
University of Virginia, and was the only Utah school to make the top 110 schools
listed by the study."With BYU's high academic standards,
well-rounded culture, and excellent athletic programs, it's no surprise
that BYU is listed near the top of this study.
""BYU's strong academic programs and campus culture make it a
popular choice among certain groups of high schoolers"Yes, and
that "certain groups of high schoolers" are called LDS.Get
real. BYU is a good school, but it ranked high strictly because of religious
affiliation.""@JoeBlow,Why would researchers at
Harvard purposely target high schools with large LDS populations? Serious
students in all walks of life know of BYU's reputation for excellence. The
only thing preventing many from attending is the Honor Code.
This is really no surprise to anybody in academia, or those of us who regularly
hire college grads. High performing students function well in highly structured
environments. What makes the BYU experience so polarizing is that environment.
Those students who are bugged by all the rules and lack of open thinking should
have gone somewhere else; likewise the kids who go to more open environments
like Berkley or the UofU and complain about the lack of structure should go
somewhere else as well. What's tiresome is the self-righteousness of some
BYU fans believing they are the Harvard of the west. Anybody who has actually
been to Harvard finds this laughable. BYU's strength is its dedication to a
very structured undergrad experience. They do that very well. By the way, this
article had nothing to do with football; however an in-depth tour of pac 12
schools and you would see why BYU was not invited.
For the link to the published research in the Quarterly Journal of Economics,
you can refer to the BYU news release.
First of all, I am a BYU Fan but I am appalled the comments some of you are
making. I am ashamed at the stupid comments towards the UofU. Why don't you
just let the U be who they are a like BYU for who they are? Seems like some of
you BYU fans just can't wait to get a jab in at the U every time you get a
chance but when the U does it to you, you get all offended. BYU students are
very competitive. Its a great school. These (mostly) LDS kids have worked very
hard through High School to get into such a place. Some people just don't
want to scrap for every 1/2 point. Not their personality. But really... you
have to argue about everything? Grow up BYU and Utah fans... not everything is
Why isn't there a link to the actual study, or the full list, in the
A link to the study would be appreciated.@ bigsamoan, I doubt anyone
would argue with Harvard.As for BYU, it is udnerstandable it is
ranked. It is the flagship schoold for the LDS community of millions, and it
can only accomodate so many student coming from that population. It can be
selective from that community, and the numbers favor it for this ranking. It
speaks well for BYU in the overall scheme of things.And please,
don't pound on the U., the PAC 12, or any other school. This ranking is
irrlevant to all of that. Other institutions do great things, often better than
BYU, because that's what they choose to do. None of this is a reason to
crow or denigrate.
Love the pac 12... Like independence more.
The one thing all BYU and U of U students have in common: they all applied to
RE: Cougsndawgs"Reality check: BYU is a top tier academic
university and obviously the PAC 12 had other reasons for not inviting
them"No it isn't. The kind of "top tier" that the
PAC12 cares about are the research dollars going into the school. BYU is
classified as a "high" research activity school but all PAC12 schools
are "very high research". While BYU is more selective and their
undergraduates have a better experience (statistically speaking) than most PAC12
schools, the reason they aren't included is because they don't have
the graduate programs and aren't publishing and making money at the same
rate as those schools. The argument can still be made that there
was a religious bias preventing the invite, as the PAC12 was more than willing
to accept Oklahoma State and Kansas State (high research schools). I for one am
grateful the invite never came. Independence is a step up from MWC and
there's always a chance the Big 12 calls.
I don't think it comes as news that BYU and UU serve very different student
populations. BYU the more high end student and UU more of a community college
type student. But, their faculty output is rather similar in terms of scholarly
productivity. It's just that UU faculty put more focus on grants and
contracts and vita development, and BYU faculty put more emphasis on student
"BYU's strong academic programs and campus culture make it a popular
choice among certain groups of high schoolers"Yes, and that
"certain groups of high schoolers" are called LDS.Get real.
BYU is a good school, but it ranked high strictly because of religious
I only attended BYU for the scholarship money. Except for the Horticulture and
Recreation & Youth Leadership Departments and the Rugby Program, I have no
real love for the place. I think most Utahns as a general rule think too highly
of themselves. It doesn't really matter which university they attend. If
you are Mormon it is a mistake to attend any institution in Utah unless they
have the best program for your field of study. Ricks College used to be a great
place to get your academic legs under you. But, now it just "Provo
Lite". Stay where you are, attend a local university, and attend Institute.
It is amazing that some people think "university" and "football"
are synonymous. This wasn't a sports story folks.
No link or other information about how to find the actual study, or am I missing
"BYU among top 25 choices for high-performing high schoolers"No surprise there.
Bigsamoan:"Ummm, something smells fishy when the school that conducted
the survey ranked itself number one".If it were anyone besides
Harvard I would agree with you. However, Harvard is known for it's career
center and getting grads into great jobs, to say nothing of the real world
experiences, fellowships, and internships offered thru Harvard. The fact
they're number one is not real surprising.
Ummm, something smells fishy when the school that conducted the survey ranked
itself number one.
BYU the only university in Utah that made the list.
Oh the comedy that could be written and the jokes this could bring.Ah, but the spirit of compassion restraineth my soul.
"The study's authors aimed to demonstrate a new method of ranking
schools that could not be so easily manipulated by the schools themselves. Other
common metrics often used to tout a school's popularity — such as the
number of applications submitted or the percentage of students who commit to
attend the school after they are accepted — are too easily influenced by
the schools themselves..." This is exactly why the results of
ranking academic institutions should be taken with a grain of salt (i.e., US
News and World Report). Add to that the near incomprehensible criteria being
measured and the nonexistence of third party audits of data submitted we are
left with highly suspect and unreliable results. This study is
interesting but religious affiliation should also be captured in the sample. If
not, any result that put byu in the top 25 is highly suspect. The last number I
saw for non-lds students at byu was 2%. Obviously, if the number of lds kids in
the sample was high, the result will favor byu making the reported result less
attractive. I wonder how they defined "high performing?" Ask the tough questions, people.
Yep, BYU isn't good enough academically for the PAC12 when prestige is
manipulated by the schools (lol, I can't imagine schools doing this, as
if). But if we ask high achieving students we get a whole different perspective.
Academics seems to be the only revenue earning business where clout and prestige
are established by the businesses themselves rather than the consumers that
partake of what is offered, LOL. A good ole boy club if ever there was one.Reality check: BYU is a top tier academic university and obviously the
PAC 12 had other reasons for not inviting them. Lets see, BYU has more fans in
the SLC market than Utah, and in the national market than Utah. BYU has larger
and better facilities than Utah had when they were invited. BYU has a NC, and
far more tradition athletically than Utah especially considering all sports.
Hmm...I'm running out if reasons, ute fans...except one of course, which U
all think had nothing to do with it. Like I said...reality check.
BYU is always among schools with the highest yield, meaning a higher number of
students who are accepted, actually enroll in classes. Or better said, BYU is
nobody's backup plan!
Oooops, my bad. Not 21 schools ahead of BYU, BYU is the 21st...Only
two schools to figure out
Well, lets see...There was the top four, plus West Virginia and
Duke. That leaves 15 schools better than you. Oh, and of course the PAC 12
schools. Obviously they are all superior academically to BYU. I
wonder who the other three were...