If this young man took the course in high school before he was a member of the
UT system then he should gain credit.For those wondering how Texas
could possibly know about the status of players on other teams. Remember Texas
simply has to review its records on prospective students tat are playing for
other schools. Plus someone will always "leak: info just to get in
Texas' favor. Trust me BYU does not want to tick off Texas.
They have long memories are famous for holding grudges.
gehelmkeThe question isn't whether the course was taken, the
question is whether the course was taken under false pretenses.If
whoever signed up for the course falsely claimed that the student taking the
course wasn't a college athlete, then BYU has no choice but to deny credit
for the course - it's no different than submitting an application for
college admission using a false transcript.
I live in Austin, TX....I moved here from Murray, UT....I have found the
"back and forth" between UT and BYU to be comical to the point of
absolute hilarity....The Austin American Statesman projects that BYU is unfairly
depriving them of an outstanding football player, and the Deseret News is
projecting that BYU is steadfastly holding to its rigid ruling.My
opinion....If the course was taken, there's a record of it somewhere.
BYU's policy of saying one student can not take the course, while another
student can, is flat out discrimination....and it especially smells in the
present situation because UT and BYU play each other in a couple of
months.....Who actually took the course is irrelevant. No one knows who takes
online courses, and the credits are awarded every day.
Won't be long now... 5 weeks from tonight and the brown hawk, feathers and
all will be Roadkill in our rear view mirror...
What was the course title? If you saw the types of courses available for
independent study, no one would be arguing because no one would say that type of
course qualifies for credit - high school or college.
@slcwatchNo, you are completely wrong. This was a HIGH SCHOOL course
taken for HIGH SCHOOL credit.
This is a stupid reason to prevent someone in a football career. I'm sure BYU is okay without becoming the utah utes of the Big 12.
@tators - the most telling comment in your post comes at the end when you
reference anyone with a 'ute' in their name. If that isn't a
textbook definition of prejudice, I don't know what is. Regarding your comment and suggestion I didn't read the article closely,
my response is that maybe you should take your own advice. The direct quote is
'BYU's policy, established in 2006, prohibits student-athletes from
schools other than BYU from taking Independent Study classes." There is
nothing in the article that indicates this is in regard to NCAA compliance.The article continue to site example of other athletes that used the
process to become eligible and NEVER references the NCAA regulations. Maybe
there is some truth to your comment, maybe not; but nothing in the article
supports your post.
It isn't up to BYU, its the NCAA policy...thank Micheal Oher for the
Three words; Honor, Spirit, Tradition.Live tradition and honor the spirit
of the law.Then watch the wrath of the Long Horns clean house.
So why doesn't Texas and other schools have an independant study program of
their own? We all know that academics isn't what their program
is about, and any athlete who isn't cutting it academically will somehow be
cleared to play via whatever mischief is necessary for the program to continue.
@Silent Lurker, WoodyNo, both of you have this completely wrong.This
is not about High school grades, credit or eligbity. It is not about replacing
high school grades.Desmond is at a Junior College. He didn't
complete a course..at the Junior college..that he needs to maintain NCAA
eligibility. BYU can not monitor, as required by NCAA rules, students not
on their campus. So they must bar student/athletes not enrolled on campus at
BYU.They can monitor and test on campus BYU student athletes. Desmond is trying to move from the Junior college to Texas and violated the
policy that bars non-BYU students from taking on-line courses.Far from
being shady it is the absolute correct call they have to make to remain clear of
NCAA violations. Learn the rules. Live the rules. Had you read my
earlier post you would have understood this.
Apparently this kid has known about this for many months.Enough time for
him to have enrolled in a summer semester course at Texas.At some
point the responsibility is on the student and his school.Whether it be
answering a question honestly on an application form or taking ones own
"student" athlete status, seriously.
If I understand this correctly this program allows High School students to take
independent study courses to replace low HS grades to make them academic
qualifiers for college. BYU uses it to qualify students and athletes at BYU, but
doesn't want anyone else to use the same loop hole for their non qualifier
athletes. (ie. Texas) Is this ethical? Is BYU really doing the right thing by
this kid? It may be legally within the NCAA rules but it sounds a little shady.
BYU must think it's OK, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it. Right!
Boy let's not sweat the small stuff. What a big deal about nothing. Let
him play. What a silly technicality. BYU is notorious for stuff like this.
There are so inconsistent with how they enforce rules. I say look at the big
picture, and let him play.
Interesting viewpoint, Louisiana - it would ensure an alliance with an important
and influential program (whether the rest of the Big 12 loves or hates Texas,
they Longhorns rule the roost). Meanwhile, it removes the taint from the BYU
Independent Studies program - it should not be their job to monitor the
qualifications and eligibility of individual students.
It seems this athlete failed in high school and has no reason to be enrolled in
a University. BYU has an online course to help students complete high school.
This could make a student eligible for college. It does not make him eligible
for sports. I think a reasonable and fair outcome is for him to enroll at
Texas, but be redshirted for at least a year. If he has high enough college
grades, play next year.
JohnInSLC"Funny that Y "fans" are simultaneously
defending a suspect online study program here and touting the university's
academic credentials on another DNews story"Not funny at all,
considering the two stories have absolutely NOTHING to do with each other.NOBODY is contesting the validity of the study program; the only thing
being questioned is whether it was taken under false pretenses.
christyBYU is 2-1 all-time versus Texas; 2-0 versus Oklahoma.According to the spiel we constantly hear from the kids on the hill,
head-to-head is the ONLY thing that counts, so BYU is obviously better than
Texas and Oklahoma (at least according to the theory constantly being spewed
from the hill).
2013 Ute Seniors: Perhaps you are right. But the fact remains that BYU has a
winning record against the star program of the BIG12 and in fact handed them one
of their worst losses in their highly touted history, routing them 46-7 in 1988.
And I was on UT's campus -- living in Austin -- in 1987, when BYU beat
them on their home turf, 22-17. I was really amazed then at the arrogance of
the UT fans. They were certain because of their "history" they would
clobber the cougs. Oh, well. I guess it does matter what happens on the field.
Let the kid play. After all he was only trying to maintain eligibility.
It's not like he was signing helmets for money like some other kid in
College Station, who mind you is still practicing with his team.
@ 2013 Ute Seniors Sweep...:2 facts remain that you can not dispute.
One is that BYU has a better head-to-head record against Texas, 2-1. And as
someone stated, the single loss was by a single point and that was played at
Texas. When Utah gets any win against the Y, the trolls seems to think it means
everything, including that their program is therefore better. But when BYU
does the same thing against someone else, you do a complete turnaround. Odd.The 2nd fact: Regarding saying that your online name says it all...
All that name really says is that you live in a red hued dream-world that is
about to come crashing down on you in a few weeks. September 21st to be more
specific. The reality of what's been happening in fall practices at both
schools is what really says it all. Take off those red tinted glasses and try
to stay better informed.
No JohnInSLC, what's funny is that you think BYU's Independent Study
program is "suspect", along with the minor detail that it's Harvard
University that determined BYU's academic credentials are top 25, not Y
"fans".Good try though. It doesn't take much to make a
desperate U football or basketball fan see 'funny' in the news these
Funny that Y "fans" are simultaneously defending a suspect online study
program here and touting the university's academic credentials on another
DNews story.You can't make this stuff up!
Let him play, they need the help.
@metamoracoug,So you are better than the Texas football program
now?LOL!Texas gets more quality wins each year than
bronco has in his entire time at byu combined!
@Christine,The same can be said of Utah(justifiable arrogance) and
byu.See my screen name. Says it all.
I think Texas also has a lot to lose. Just because they have football tradition
does not mean they can manipulate any systems just so that a player can play
football. Who do they think they are? Rules and policies are there for good
reasons. Texas will bend any rule and bypass any system if it means that their
beloved football program will succeed. They seem to have the entitlement
mentality that so many of our young people have these days.This has
nothing to do with football. It is about academics. The NCAA should stick to
@AZUteIn honest answer to your question: No, he took the class under
false pretense (that he was not a student athlete (JC). But they probably will
because they are nice people.
I suppose the secret problem is that someone other than the student can advise
the student what answers to make, but the student gets the credit. But how does
BYU know that? Best to not have any requirements re athletes.
2013,I think you need to get out more and read the papers. You say that
BYU has troubles with whatever they do? Di you not just read the Harvard study
that showed BYU and the21 best schools for high achieving HS students. Did you
not read that BYU is the most stone sober campus in the country? Did you not
remember that BYU OWNS Utah in basketball? And let's not forget the
national Championship in football. BYU has better facilities, better graduation
rates, more attendance at athletics events that Utah...shall I go on or do you
want to slink away back into your crimson hole.
2013 Ute Seniors SWEEP byU 4-0"The difference between byu and
Texas?The arrogance coming from Texas fans about their football program is
justified."The same could be said of the difference between Utah
and (insert about 10 of the other PAC-12 schools). It works both ways.
"CO UtePARKER, COI don't have an issue with BYU
arguing that the Texas player can't use this class to be eligible. What I
don't like about this program is the policy that BYU players can use these
courses to be eligible but athletes from other schools can't. Either make
the courses available to everyone or restrict the courses to Y students but you
can't have it both ways."+1, all or nothing.
2013 Ute seniors: Except that BYU is 2-1 against Texas and the sole loss was by
1 point at Texas. Have a good day.
@ 2013 Ute Seniors...The difference between posts made by ute trolls
and BYU fans...Any arrogance by BYU is comparatively justified. At least such a simple policy as stated in this article is understood by
them... and most others. BTW... a few more weeks (Sept. 21st) and
your online name will make you look pretty silly.
To CO Ute:If you read the article more closely, you'd realize
that the NCAA requires such online courses for student athletes to be monitored.
And since BYU can monitor only it's own athletes and not those athletes of
other schools, it restricts that specific use of their online courses. The NCAA doesn't stipulate that non-student athletes be monitored.
Therefore, anyone not a student athlete from any other school is free to take
the online courses and get credit after being passed. It's really not as
difficult a policy as some people are making it out to be... especially those
with a ute in their name.
If he's ruled ineligible and whatever number of hours are deducted from his
record, will BYU refund the money he paid for the online course?
The difference between byu and Texas?The arrogance coming from Texas
fans about their football program is justified.
Elk Hair Caddis"Sad that BYU let it get to this point."Since when is it BYU's fault that it got to this point.The policy not allowing student athletes from other schools to receive credit
for classes through BYU Independent Study is in place and is clearly spelled
out in the online sign-up procedures. With the thousands of online students who
sign up for classes through Independent Study (ironic name when it comes to
athletes), BYU simply doesn't have the time nor resources to independently
verify whether or not each student signing up for classes is an athlete from
another school.The responsibility to answer that question truthfully
during the signup process rests with the student.
I don't have an issue with BYU arguing that the Texas player can't use
this class to be eligible. What I don't like about this program is the
policy that BYU players can use these courses to be eligible but athletes from
other schools can't. Either make the courses available to everyone or
restrict the courses to Y students but you can't have it both ways.
If BYU wants its Independent Study to be taken seriously in the academic world,
including contributions of the coursework to any accredited degree, it must
cooperate with Texas. These things have ramifications in situations far beyond
Let's get this straight. So BYU offers independent study courses so that
low high school grades cab be replaced and eligibility requirements can be met
for college. This works as long as the student attends BYU or isn't a
student athlete at another school. Now a case comes along where the class is
used by a student athlete at another school and BYU is denying credit? Seems like there are two standards ay play here. Is this just another example
of BYU designing a system for BYU to usurp the rules/system in BYU athletes
favor? Or is it a way for BYU to lower their admissions standards without having
it publically acknowledged?
On its face, this policy seems to be unethical and an affront to the individual
seeking to obtain academic credit. Moreover, the policy calls into question the
legitimacy of all BYU online courses!Besides making BYU look bad,
this policy makes the NCAA look like they don't have a clue! (But they
have demonstrated that quality time and again!)Give the young man
his credit. Enough, already. BYU should join with Texas in appealing this
ridiculous policy to the NCAA.
I think Byu has online classes for users just like any other university or
college does!!!why didn't the guy take on line classes from
Texas ware he is enrolled?why is Texas even letting the player play
if he is not nca elgabell ?
The fact that other student athletes may have been awarded credit is easily
explained: "we were not aware that any of those participants were
athletes."The error was likely made by a guidance counselor at
the junior college who had used these courses in the distant past to help
students become eligible, did not review the new policy and was unaware that
they could no longer be used.The application does not ask "Are
you a student athlete." And BYU Independent Study has no mechanism and no
responsibility to determine the NCAA status of each applicant. The
responsibility is on the student to review the guidelines.I am
curious to know how Texas will definitively show that other student athletes
have used these courses to gain eligibility. Will they ultimately disqualify
some of their other athletes. "Look, our entire defense took these courses
last year..., oops." Perhaps they will point out participation by some key
rivals "Corey Nelson and Julian Wilson both took these classes." There
are probably a few student athletes that will not sleep well until this is
over.In the end, I hope the kid gets to play.
No brainer...If the kid earned credit, release the grade and let him play.
Seems like nobody on here understands the issue.This is not a high school
course...period. It's a University course, Desmond was at a JC.This
is not about being fair, it's about following rules.The Y, like every
other school that runs any on line classes, has to certify that the course was
taken by the listed student. It's usually an honor issue.BYU
can't just do it for student athletes because of the abuse by schools that
do anything to make borderline individuals eligible.No one can take online
courses now without spending a semester on campus first according to the
Y's website. Hence BYU student athletes can.Because eligibility
clocks are running for University student athletes, BYU must moniter student
athletes. They can't if they can't get the student on campus. Hence
non-students can't use BYU on line classes.The NCAA requires
monitoring of student athletes.To stay free of NCAA oversight BYU
doesn't allow non studentsAny student athletes who lie are subject to
losing credit.BYU should welcome any list that Texas has and with draw
credit for those student athletes who violated.
Tell Texas to pound sand.
They will give him credit or be exposed for allowing other non opponents to do
the same thing. Either way it is still their decision to make, but Hohn the
fireworks! Personally I hope they try to deny him. The fallout will be epic!
@Bluto"... Admitted to the Big12..."BYU
isn't getting admitted to the Big12 anyway...But my guess is
BYU will find a way around their policy in an effort to keep that Big12 dream
Why is this an issue between BYU and Texas? I thought the ncaa made it clear
after 2010 that these classes wouldn't count. Seems to me this is the NCAAs
issue to deal with.2013 Ute Seniors (aka Chris B or his
relative):"At some point it can't be a considered a coincidence
when any relationship this school has turns sour".Are U
referring to BYU or Texas? We all know Texas has no friends because they bully
everyone and force their will on everyone...sounds like this case is no
different. Everyone has to play by the rules except Texas. I think BYU would
have MORE friends in the Big 12 by snubbing Texas and sticking to their guns. U
act as if Big 12 teams/programs love Texas when they actually hate the longhorns
and wish nothing but the worst on them. Apparently U dont know the Big 12 very
Why is it that some schools just have trouble with whatever they do?At some point it can't be a considered a coincidence when any
relationship this school has turns sour. The 1% chance the Big 12
was ever going to invite byu is probably now down to .1%And it
won't be increasing. Ever
Doesn't matter if it's Texas or Southwest Podunk State, if we've
left legitimate ambiguity in the program, then this needs to go down in the
player's favor. Only if the kid's 100% and unambiguously in the wrong
do we sit tight here; otherwise we should get out of the way of his eligibility,
and let UT and the NCAA do what they want with it from here. And then, I think
we need to take a really hard look at this program, and do what is necessary to
make it truly bulletproof against the appearance of abuse -- or if we can't
do so, discontinue it entirely. No impropriety exists here, and we are nuts to
leave ourselves open to the appearance of such.
As Texas controls the Big 12, maybe byu should fold to their request.
Wow..BYU is in between a rock and a boulder.Give him credit, and
they will be criticized for pandering to an athlete.Don't give him
credit and BYU will never see Texas on their schedule again.Let alone be
admitted to the Big-12.Ouch!
At what point is he an NCAA student athlete? If he wasn't yet eligible
because he lacked High School credit, I believe he could have enrolled in the
course(s) since he was not yet enrolled as a student athlete at Texas.BYU should punt this one to the NCAA. The NCAA says whether or
not an individual is eligible. Currently NCAA policy has declared that BYU
Independent Study High School program does not count towards HS graduation
requirements for eligibility purposes. All BYU needs to do is submit the
transcript to the NCAA. They will have done their part.Frankly, I
hope the kid gets to play and more importantly gets to have a chance at a good
education at Texas.
Did this player certify that he was not an athlete at another university in
order to enroll in the class?
Whatever the policy is, if BYU abides by that policy, then that is the right
thing to do. If BYU is obligated to help this young man, then they should do
that so he can compete. If they are under no obligation to do so, then they
shouldn't have to. Hopefully the right thing plays out for both
this young man, and for BYU.
So the question is whether BYU has strictly enforced this policy since its
inception. If so, the policy is clear on its face and the player should explain
how he can justify its violation. If not, and other players from other
universities used BYU home study to their advantage since the policy was
announced, BYU should explain how it can single this athlete out for enforcement
purposes. Better be strictly enforcing the policy or BYU will end
up with egg on its face and potentially turn a friend in UT into an enemy.
ThrillerBYU has a responsibility to every student who takes an
Independent Study Course from BYU to maintain the academic integrity of the
It doesn't sound like this program is shining a very positive light on BYU.