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Guest Commentary: Should BYU football go for conference championships or independence?

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  • Koloss Hampton, VA
    Aug. 18, 2013 4:29 p.m.

    Another cop out about BYU going independent. If independence is so great why didn't they do it sooner? They could have still had the Holy War and have played the against the big boys going as far back as '84. Truth is they were happy winning title after title in the WAC and they could have done it in the MWC minus Utah and TCU. All this article did was undermine everything BYU accomplished in the WAC and MWC.

  • mindgames Aurora, CO
    Aug. 18, 2013 9:13 a.m.

    I agree, agree, agree the move to independence was a must after Utah's departure. An invitation to the PAC-12 along with Utah would have been ideal, but it didn't happen.

    But I sure miss the visits to the Air Force Academy every other year.

    Maybe a few home-and homes with AFA and Colorado would be good.

  • Owl Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 17, 2013 11:21 a.m.

    Football is entertainment and money, not life. If BYU must drop their religious identity, play on Sunday and become just another secular university, invitations from the PAC 12 or other conferences have no appeal. No, BYU would not fall over themselves if the PAC 12 came calling.

  • MrRed Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 10:09 p.m.

    Regardless of how the Utes do, I would rather pay to see them play Pac-12 teams like USC, UCLA, Stanford, Oregon et al. than the MWC teams likeWyoming, New Mexico, Colorado State, San Diego State et al. Even if Utah loses more than it wins, I am still seeing better football in the long run. I bought season tickets to see Utah in the Pac-12 which I never would have done were they still in the MWC.

    It is the difference between playing in the Big Leagues vs. playing in the Minor Leagues.

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    Aug. 16, 2013 4:45 p.m.

    As someone that lives in PAC 12 country, I would like to have seen BYU, Utah & TCU stay in the MWC. The conference was on the way up and getting noticed on the field. College football needs another voice out west besides the PAC 12.

    I don't like where college football is going on the D1 level. The big 5 conferences are taking the academics out of athletics and replacing it with money. They are making rules and the NCAA is following. Eventually they could break away with their own football league, and take other revenue generating sports with them, while folding the rest.

    Sure I poke fun at BYU. If they don't join a conference, there is not much future in D1 for them. Unless they take a step backwards and rejoin the MWC or play indie with FBS schools and such where they have played football playoffs for years.

    It's become more clear what the big 5s intentions are. Not sure I'm interested in following them down the road.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 12:55 p.m.

    This is just proof Utah should just quit sports.

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    Aug. 16, 2013 6:05 a.m.

    RE: Steven S. Jarvis

    Good points about the rebroadcasting rights. BYU truly does cater to a global audience... but I believe it is more than that. BYU's reach within the U.S. has grown considerably with independence. Just look at the football recruits we signed in the last three seasons (since going independent). Not only are they coming from all around the country, but we're finally starting to attract non-LDS athletes who want to be at BYU (pick BYU over other solid BCS programs). This is certainly a new era for BYU football and I think independence is working out fine. I'm with you in agreement that we're better off Indy than we would be in the PAC12. Go Cougs!

  • Steven S Jarvis Orem, UT
    Aug. 15, 2013 10:01 p.m.

    @Myperspective

    Funny. I recall the PAC10 wanted Texas and Oklahoma. Utah was what they ended up accepting because the prettier girls all turned them down. So far that invitation hasn't worked out so well for the Utes besides gymnastics. Hopefully that will change at some point. However, this is an article about BYU, not a school that discovered "cold fusion" as its most memorable research moment.

    BYU doesn't want to be in the PAC 12. Sure most of BYU fans wanted an invite. I didn't. I don't believe the brethren want BYU in the PAC unless those two things BYU needs are met before joining a conference. I knew a little more about the push for Independence from my father who worked for BYU and why it happened because of his connections to the media department.

    How much value is a football game re-broadcast? To BYU that right is too important to give up. The games around the world are used as a missionary tool which furthers the mission of the church. BYU has a global reach. No other college program has as much influence globally, not even Notre Dame.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 15, 2013 8:12 p.m.

    Steven S Jarvis

    "In order for BYU to rejoin a league for football it would need to be excluded from Sunday play and to retain broadcast rights it currently holds. The first precluded the PAC. The second precludes the Big12."

    byu "needs" this and byu "needs" that...keep telling yourself that it clearly helps ease the pain. Then consider this - - The Pac-10 "needed" an institution that fit a specific academic and research profile. The Pac-10 identified their "needs" and made the changes accordingly. The bar was too high for byu, hence, byu was not a consideration. The discussion did not get to byu and Sunday play because there was no discussion about byu. End of story.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    Aug. 15, 2013 8:03 p.m.

    MWC Championships

    BYU = 140

    The next three teams (Utah 49 + UNLV 38 + UNM 35) COMBINED = 122

    It's clear who really dominated the MWC!

  • kitsutsuki South Jordan, Utah
    Aug. 15, 2013 7:26 p.m.

    140 championships to how many??? Pretty clear which is the real university in Utah!

  • Surf is Up Miami, FL
    Aug. 15, 2013 6:40 p.m.

    Howard S. "Is it really an advantage to play big boy schools and lose?"

    Please tell us. U are more used to losing it than most teams.

  • Steven S Jarvis Orem, UT
    Aug. 15, 2013 5:40 p.m.

    Most don't understand the full extent of why BYU went Independent. The move had less to do with whom BYU would play football with than it did to retain media rights to all its sports for rebroadcasting internationally as well as in the US. BYU is a global brand. BYU is the most recognized college sports brand in South America and Africa. Its market share in Europe and Asia is expanding. This was all based on reruns of pre-MWC games. Think Utah fans are sick and tired of 1984? Well in Chile they relived that season year after year after year. BYU needed more programming for its international audience. The MWC was not going to give BYU media rights for rebroadcasting, and so far the Big 12 hasn't found a solution to BYU's unique need.

    In order for BYU to rejoin a league for football it would need to be excluded from Sunday play and to retain broadcast rights it currently holds. The first precluded the PAC. The second precludes the Big12.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    Aug. 15, 2013 5:19 p.m.

    Serious? Are we having this discussion again???

    Truth in advertising first: yes, being invited to a BCS conference, on BYU's terms, would be better than independence. Today, not so much, tomorrow doesn't look good either.

    Being independent is FAR better than being in the MWC. Even if it was on BYU's terms, independence is still better. Much better. THAT is what this article says. He did not imply what you inferred.

    BYU has been good, really good sometimes, but never quite great. Utah fans love to dispute whether our national championship (yes, that ancient history) was all that good. Utah has been great twice, otherwise surrounded by mediocrity. And lately not even that.

    U TALK like you went from being great in the MWC, to hard times with a really, really tough schedule. Reality is, U were mediocre in the MWC, mediocre in the PAC with an easy schedule, then worse, and NOW you are finally you g to face that brutal, game in, game out schedule. Good luck!

    The bottom tier of any BCS conference is NOT BCS quality. That's all.

  • rhappahannock Washington, DC
    Aug. 15, 2013 5:15 p.m.

    Look at the graphic: BYU won 140 championships, Utah was down with the rest of the pack. Yet the writer tries to lump Utah in with BYU as far as championships. The graphic made it very clear that BYU's athletics were out of place in the MWC, while Utah fit right in.

    Meanwhile, millions of dollars of taxpayer subsides every year went into the Ute program. Millions of dollars of taxpayer subsidies are still going to the UU athletic department every year - despite the BCS money. It is time for the Utah Taxpayer to get a return on their investment, and subsidies of all BCS athletic departments to end.

  • 32843 PROVO, UT
    Aug. 15, 2013 5:01 p.m.

    @ Howard S

    "Is losing to the big boys really how BYU expects to make a place for itself in the modern era of college football?"

    Well, Howard, you're in the unique position of answering that question in that is the real life position your Utes are in right now. Even better, you don't have to deal in hypothetical's since your Utes have lost like 90% or greater of its PAC-12 games. So, Howard, now that you have a bit of experience losing to just about every big boy team in the PAC-12 the past two years, can you tell us if losing to the big boys week in and week out really how Utah expects to make a place for itself in the modern era of college football?

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    Aug. 15, 2013 4:59 p.m.

    Bleed Crimson

    "Utah handing BYU it's first loss of the season ended any hopes of BYU playing in BCS bowl."

    You have absolutely no way of proving that.

    It's very possible that an 11-1 BYU, with FIVE wins versus Top 25 teams, three of them on the road, including at Notre Dame, would have been ranked in the Top 5, certainly high enough to receive an at-large BCS bowl bid.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    Aug. 15, 2013 4:53 p.m.

    Bleed Crimson

    Not "selective" stats, but MEANINGFUL stats.

    MEANINGFUL conference championships won in a conference where beating Wyoming, Denver, Colorado Mines, and Colorado College wasn't considered a "conference championship":

    BYU 23
    Utah 6

    The truth is, as soon as Utah joined a conference with some half-decent competition, the WAC, the Utes dropped completely off the conference championship map - TWO championships in 37 years in the WAC.

  • Real Bass Idaho Falls, ID
    Aug. 15, 2013 4:25 p.m.

    Giles reminds me of the pitcher who won his first Cy Young award and was reported commenting that he and Nolan Ryan had 7 between them.

    Without skiing, gymnastics and bb Utah isn't even on the board. At least they had the urban era.

  • STuFOO Korea, AE
    Aug. 15, 2013 4:08 p.m.

    Bleed,

    Classic utah logic...

    "It's just a matter of time when Utah and Colorado make their mark and become competitive in the Conference of Champions."

    Yet, BYU can't ever have good years, beat uofu, make it to the national stage, blah, blah, blah blah...

    ute logic. "It magically happened to us, but won't happen to anyone else."

    Look, the ONLY argument a u fan has that makes any sense is that you beat us last year. that it. You have nothing else. Everything else is somebody else in the conference you were invited in.

    Stop pounding your chest like the u is special. U'r not.

    There is a reason that when ESPN did their report on the PAc 12 south, you got exactly 2 minutes. Even Colorado got more time than u.

    The thing about flashes in the pan are that they hold no luster and are easily forgotten. Only utah fans know who won the third place BCS bowls in 2004 and 2008, no one else cares.

    No bowl, no respect, no preseason press.

    I don't hope u fail in the PAC 12. u already did that.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Aug. 15, 2013 4:00 p.m.

    @howie

    "Is it really an advantage to play big boy schools and lose?"

    You tell us? utah hasn't beaten any "big boy" schools in half a decade and don't appear to be anywhere near doing so for another half a decade.

  • Reno Cougs Fan 68 Reno, NV
    Aug. 15, 2013 3:58 p.m.

    Howard S.
    Can you please remind all of us from the TDS how many BCS teams with winning records the Utes have beaten the last two years while in the PAC 12? So you are correct it takes winning against the big boys not just playing them that people remember and think of as accomplishments!!! BYU is not there yet but I am really looking forward to seeing them play a great schedule this year!!! I will also be watching to see how the Utes do!!! Looking forward to the Holy War in Sept. I think BYU has a really good chance to end the Utes streak!!!

    Go Cougs
    Go Utes
    Go Aggies

  • Bleed Crimson Sandy, Utah
    Aug. 15, 2013 3:48 p.m.

    @ STuFOO

    "Since adding the u and colorado, the PAC 10 isn even what it used to be."

    No, since adding Utah and Colorado the Pac-10 now 12 has gotten better. The Pac-12 since expansion has consistently put 2 teams in the BCS every year. Since expansion, the Pac-10 now 12 is no longer USC's conference. Other teams in our conference have stepped up to the plate to not only beat USC, but win the Pac-12 and the Rose Bowl Game. It's just a matter of time when Utah and Colorado make their mark and become competitive in the Conference of Champions. Only jealous Y fans desperately hope they fail to make the Y's exclusion from being invited better. Poor little brothers!

  • STuFOO Korea, AE
    Aug. 15, 2013 3:43 p.m.

    Chrissy,

    "I'll take any wager you want for the game."

    Fine. If BYU loses I won't post on uofu article, ever again. (I guess I would have to read one first....)

    If BYU wins, you put your real name and phone number on every BYU board that allows it.

  • Real Bass Idaho Falls, ID
    Aug. 15, 2013 3:42 p.m.

    Hey howie, remind me what Utahs record has been against the big boys since you crawled into the PAC after Texas turned them down. As soon as you beat a PAC team with a winning record you can start throwing stones!

  • STuFOO Korea, AE
    Aug. 15, 2013 3:40 p.m.

    Howard S.

    I have said it before and I will say it again.

    Do you even understand college football?

    EVERYTHING Changes. If it weren't you wouldn't be bragging about ANY u accomplishments.

    Everything can change in a season. It did for the u, now oyu got a big had and think it can't happen to anyone else.

    Nice.

  • Mortoon Idaho Falls, ID
    Aug. 15, 2013 3:37 p.m.

    Let's be realistic, independence is only viable as compared to the WAC and MWC. BYU would die to get into one of the power conferences. It's nice to play good teams. Wouldnt it be nicer to do it in the Big 12? This article clearly misses the mark!

  • Bleed Crimson Sandy, Utah
    Aug. 15, 2013 3:36 p.m.

    @ talkinsports

    "What's really disingenuous is the fanbase of a program that's only won 6 conference championships in the last half century lecturing the fanbase of a program that's won 23 conference championships in the same time period about the significance of conference championships"

    And once again we have a Y'ner that likes to use selective stats that would bend in his teams favor. Conference championships are very rewarding in any era of College Football especially for the players who work their tails off all year to achieve a goal.

    Conference championships since the beginning of College Football:

    Utah 24
    BYU 23

  • scott Alpine, UT
    Aug. 15, 2013 3:28 p.m.

    howeird s.

    "Giles should know that BYU has a losing record against teams from power conferences."

    Since he's a Utah graduate, Giles should be even more familiar with Utah's pathetic record against power conference teams with winning records.

    Since joining the PAC, the Utes are 0-9 against PAC teams with winning records, and the Utes have lost to TWO PAC teams with losing records.

    In fact, the ONLY power conference team with a winning record that Utah has beaten since becoming a "big boy", is Georgia Tech, ranked #56 by Sagarin.

    Is constantly losing to the big boys really how Utah expects to make a place for itself in the PAC?

    The Utes haven't won a road game against a PAC foe with a winning record since 1997, yet howeird is delusional enough to believe that his Utes are anything more than a PAC doormat.

  • Bleed Crimson Sandy, Utah
    Aug. 15, 2013 3:22 p.m.

    @ STuFOO

    "when the University of Utah beat BYU, the Utes essentially ended byu's season."

    "Really? In what regard? In your mind? BYU had at least five other teams to look forward to. In fact, I would suggest that real football players looked forward to all the games"

    Utah handing BYU it's first loss of the season ended any hopes of BYU playing in BCS bowl. That loss to Utah kicked the overrated Cougars out of the top 25 and secured their fate of playing in a third tier Poinsettia Bowl. You may have other games to look forward to, but BYU isn't playing for anything special in the post season.

  • IDC Boise, ID
    Aug. 15, 2013 3:13 p.m.

    BYU and the U dominated the MWC? You have to add the 2nd place team, 3rd, 4th, and 5th to get more championships than BYU. BYU dominated the MWC, 2-6th place were very close to each other, not BYU.

    I hope BYU gets into a top 5 conference. I would hate for them to be left out if any big changes take place. Apart from the risk of being left out, independence is great. Love seeing all the games on TV and love the variety of teams BYU plays.

  • Christopher B Ogden, UT
    Aug. 15, 2013 3:12 p.m.

    @StuFoo,

    I'll take any wager you want for the game.

    I've already said if byu wins I wont post on byu articles all season.

    In fact I've said the same thing the last 3 seasons.

    Ive posted all season the last 3 seasons.

    I'll be posting all season.

    And reminding you I was right

    Utah 30
    byu 14

    Mark it Down

  • skoup Lake Tapps, WA
    Aug. 15, 2013 3:02 p.m.

    Am I the only one who noticed that the author of this article graduated from the University of Utah? It's not BYU fans writing about the insignificance of a conference championship...it's one of your own.

    "Justin Giles graduated from the University of Utah with a bachelor's of arts degree in communications, with an emphasis in journalism and sports communication."

  • STuFOO Korea, AE
    Aug. 15, 2013 2:49 p.m.

    Chrissy,

    "You're trying to beat your chest because once in the past 20 years you beat us?"

    A little candor please. To show you are at least trying not to be just a troll.

    BYU has beaten you seven (7) times in the last 20 years.

    And you conveniently left out that the twenty years before that, you only beat them twice (2).

    So lets take your twenty and my twenty and see what will happen this year on the 21st.

    BYU 25
    UofU 15

    It will then be 26 to 15 on te 21st

  • STuFOO Korea, AE
    Aug. 15, 2013 2:44 p.m.

    Crissy,

    "Because I LOVE my Pac 12 membership!"

    Good thing because your team is going to be awful.

    Take pride in other achievements, ride those coat tails, dip your foot in the well. You're the new Wyoming of the PAC10.

  • STuFOO Korea, AE
    Aug. 15, 2013 2:42 p.m.

    Christopher B

    "Remember that the MWC lost its best 3 teams.

    So the MWC isn't even what the MWC was when we were in it."

    Since adding the u and colorado, the PAC 10 isn even what it used to be.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    Aug. 15, 2013 2:36 p.m.

    Is it really an advantage to play big boy schools and lose?

    Giles should know that BYU has a losing record against teams from power conferences.

    Is losing to the big boys really how BYU expects to make a place for itself in the modern era of college football?

  • BlueCoug Orem, UT
    Aug. 15, 2013 2:26 p.m.

    BYU's move to Independence has many more plusses than minuses. Nobody should underestimate the value of BYU's television partnership with ESPN, something that never would have been possible as a member of the MWC. The only thing better would be membership in the Big 12.

    --------------

    In case you missed it, Tayo Fabuluje has received acceptance into BYU. Bronco is now able to discuss with Tayo plans for re-joining BYU's football program. Bronco released Fabuluje from BYU in 2010 allowing him to receive a scholarship at TCU. Not surprisingly, Coach Patterson didn't reciprocate.

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    Aug. 15, 2013 2:15 p.m.

    I love to debate the finer points of BYU fandom and would love to talk about the pros and cons of being in a conference...

    However,

    When someone posts repeatedly on the same article...

    Marking it down with the same negative comments over and over and over...

    And does it using several double spaced lines...

    Because they want to take as much space as possible believing it will bring more attention to their post and somehow validate their negativity...

    I consider that SPAM and wish it was not permitted on these discussion boards.

    Personally, I'm grateful trolls are permitted to post because it makes for interesting discussion and personally gives me an excuse to do research on my favorite team. But having certain poster always having the first (and second and third...) posts, thereby dictating the direction of the conversation, is getting tiresome.

    Does anyone else think there should be a "no troll for the first ten posts" policy?

  • MUSSing with U Baltimore, MD
    Aug. 15, 2013 2:11 p.m.

    christy

    Currently, Utah's season is over with opening game kickoff; the Utes have no realistic chance of winning a PAC title.

  • Ifel Of'a-sofa Alpine, Utah
    Aug. 15, 2013 2:10 p.m.

    chrissyb... not pounding my chest at all, and not comparing the MWC to the pac12 either.

    what I am saying is that your BEST years were in the MWC and you are a doormat now. A well paid doormat but a doormat none the less.

    I dont care how long it has been since the last time we beat you... but until you beat us... we BEAT you and we are better. We are ranked higher and you make more money and that's it.

    You are not a gem to the pac12 you are a doormat, and every conference has them.

    Until you do something in the pac12, you had best not spout off, it makes you look foolish.

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    Aug. 15, 2013 2:02 p.m.

    talkinsports

    "The sad truth for U is, BYU has about as much chance of winning a conference championship as an Independent as Utah has as a member of the PAC."

    Facetious, but true.

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    Aug. 15, 2013 2:02 p.m.

    Bottom line is being in a conference - the right conference - is better than being independent. How do we know this? Because if independence were the best, more of the big teams would do it. Alabama hasn't done it. Neither has Texas, Florida, Ohio St., Oklahoma, or USC. Notre Dame only did it because they have the best TV deal in the country (all games televised on NBC), and despite that, word is they are considering joining a conference.

    If you could anonymously poll every athletic director in the country about whether they prefer independence to being in a conference, my guess is it's a 119-0 vote....even Holmoe wants to be in a conference. Why else would he keep courting the Big 12? If independence were great he wouldn't be making all these phone calls.

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    Aug. 15, 2013 1:46 p.m.

    Tomahawk Red

    "Giles' attempt to minimize the significance of conference championships is disingenuous."

    What's really disingenuous is the fanbase of a program that's only won 6 conference championships in the last half century lecturing the fanbase of a program that's won 23 conference championships in the same time period about the significance of conference championships.

    Since when has winning a conference championship ever been significant to Utah fans.

    Conference Championships
    Bronco 2
    Kyle 1

    The sad truth for U is, BYU has about as much chance of winning a conference championship as an Independent as Utah has as a member of the PAC.

  • Christopher B Ogden, UT
    Aug. 15, 2013 1:43 p.m.

    IfelSofa,

    You're trying to beat your chest because once in the past 20 years you beat us?

    LOL

    There is a reason Utah was invited to the Pac 12 and usu wasn't.

    Yes, the MWC is the best non-BCS conference.

    And the Pac 12 is much better than the MWC(WAC 2.0)

    Remember that the MWC lost its best 3 teams.

    So the MWC isn't even what the MWC was when we were in it.

    Its as close to the WAC as to the former MWC.

    But you keep enjoying the MWC.

    Because I LOVE my Pac 12 membership!

    You'll just have to trust me though, since you'll never get to experience both!

  • Ifel Of'a-sofa Alpine, Utah
    Aug. 15, 2013 1:29 p.m.

    funny that when byu and utah were in the MWC, it was all the talk about how great they were and being conf champs, but now that they are out they try and downplay the conference.

    As fans and money aside, most would like their team to win vs lose.

    So lose in the pac12, and by lose I mean doormat lose, or win in the MWC.
    Lose as an indy and struggle to fill a schedule every year, or win in the MWC.

    The MWC is the best non BCS conference out there.

    Go Aggies!

  • Marked it Down Park City, UT
    Aug. 15, 2013 1:25 p.m.

    It's laughable that our insecure little friends on the hill have to chime in every time BYU's status as an Independent is discussed.

    Except for their twin flash-in-the-pan seasons in 2004 and 2008, the Utes have ALWAYS been "out" of the national picture, and that hasn't changed even with Utah's PAC 12 membership.

    Utah fans continue to delude themselves with the false claim that Utah's season isn't over because of one loss. The truth is, the Utes have absolutely no chance of making the playoffs with a loss. A Utah team not capable of beating BYU or Utah State or Fresno State has ZERO chance of running the table to win the PAC.

    Christofer and his friends are just blowing smoke. They have absolutely no proof that Utah, with an early season loss to BYU or Utah State, would be included in the mix of playoff teams.

    They're all talk; the Utes haven't even proven that they can beat a PAC 12 with a winning record.

  • dumprake Washington, UT
    Aug. 15, 2013 1:22 p.m.

    Amen. Amen, and amen!

  • STuFOO Korea, AE
    Aug. 15, 2013 12:54 p.m.

    Love how ute fans think that being in a big conference is special now that they are in, but not when they weren't.

    "However, the same argument does NOT hold up when talking about membership in a Big 5 conference."

    Yeah cause when I think of college football I automatically start naming off the winners of the SEC, ACC, Big 10, and Big 12 conference. I love to search out articles on who won those conferences in years past, and live to watch them play.

    Do you honestly think that fans and players sit around all day and worship "power conferences?" (apparently some u fans do.)

    At least have a little candor.

  • Christine B. Hedgefog Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 15, 2013 12:53 p.m.

    Chrissy "So basically it doesn't matter what byu chooses. Either way its not really notable."
    And yet notable enough for you to double spout an opinion.

    "Either way, byu is "out" of the national picture"
    And, in case you've been out of the country for a while this will come as news to you, your team is out of the PAC-12 championship picture, and not even mentioned by any reputable news source on the national picture.

  • STuFOO Korea, AE
    Aug. 15, 2013 12:49 p.m.

    What a shocker. The Chrissy's were the first to add their meaningful observations.

    I found this hilarious:

    "Outside of a power conference championship, a "championship" is only ever talked about or cared about by people in that conference."

    Outside any conference, no one cares about who the conference champions are. It is just like naming who won the third place BCS bowl in 2003...

    No one cares.

    This one is good too:

    "when the University of Utah beat BYU, the Utes essentially ended byu's season."

    Really? In what regard? In your mind? BYU had at least five other teams to look forward to. In fact, I would suggest that real football players looked forward to all the games.

    When you add both the chrissy comments together you also get:

    "winning the MWC championship isn't really something to brag about in the first place."

    So I guess because conference championships mean everything,I mean nothing, but the MWC championship meant nothing anyway...

    the u has nothing to brag about.

    (Once again, no one cares who won the 3rd place BCS bowls)

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 15, 2013 12:44 p.m.

    One of the great things BYU has going for itself is that it doesn't have to worry if the system will give it a chance to play against the big boys. It already will be playing BCS-type games during the season.

    ------------

    This season yes, what about in the future?

    No idea, considering the Big 5 (the ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, SEC and Pac-12) are pushing to create another division in college football.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    Aug. 15, 2013 12:24 p.m.

    This article brings up a few decent points, but completely misses the target.

    Giles' attempt to minimize the significance of conference championships is disingenuous. And it tells us what we already know.

    1. Yes, the Independence schedules are better than the MWC schedules.

    2. Yes, the MWC was an insignificant conference.

    3. Utah and BYU basically ran the league

    However, the same argument does NOT hold up when talking about membership in a Big 5 conference.

    Scheduling as an independent is better than playing in the MWC. however, scheduling some good-to-great games as an independent is not better than playing as part of the Pac 12 or big 12.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    Aug. 15, 2013 12:17 p.m.

    I think being independent is the next best thing to being in a power conference. If I had to choose between a power conference and independence I would choose the power conference hands down, if for nothing other than recruiting. In the Big 12 BYU would play the big teams week in and week out while still having a shot at a conference title and individual all-conference awards and accolades.

    I love independence for now, but I want to be in a major conference at some point. Yes, Utah fans, this is a Cougar fan admitting that between your position and independence, I'd take your position. Unfortunately for U, your position still doesn't make U a better program than BYU so I am, and will always be Cougar blue.

  • Christopher B Ogden, UT
    Aug. 15, 2013 12:14 p.m.

    Honestly it's 6's in all reality. A WAC 2.0 MWC championship is nothing to brag about.

    I'm frankly a little embarrassed I used to get excited about MWC championships and MWC games.

    And that was back when BCS quality programs Utah and TCU were part of the league.

    Yes now Boise is added. But you lost 2 BCS quality programs and gained 1.

    So the MWC(which is the only league that would accept byu) is worse now than it was before.

    I think the MWC is better off without byu(no prima donnas in league currently) and it winning the MWC championship isn't really something to brag about in the first place.

    So basically it doesn't matter what byu chooses. Either way its not really notable.

  • Christopher B Ogden, UT
    Aug. 15, 2013 12:11 p.m.

    Currently, byu's football season is essentially over with the fist loss.

    For example, last year when the University of Utah beat byu, the Utes essentially ended byu's season.

    Although I can't say a WAC 2.0(MWC) championship is any better than independence.

    Outside of a power conference championship, a "championship" is only ever talked about or cared about by people in that conference.

    Either way, byu is "out" of the national picture