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Comments about ‘BYU football: Unique aspects of BYU helped sway 2 non-LDS commits, Cedric Dale and Nick Kurtz’

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Published: Sunday, Aug. 11 2013 3:41 p.m. MDT

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Howard S.
Taylorsville, UT

@MUSSing with U

You must have inadvertently forgotten BYU's 0-2 record against Utah in independence...

Oh... and also BYU's 4-6 record against the big boys of college football in the independence era...

But hey... if you can't tout victories against the big boys at least you've got your winning record against the MWC/WAC/BigSky... and your third tier bowl triumphs...

Rockwell
Baltimore, MD

Howard S.

You have inadvertently admitted that Utah's only significant accomplishment since joining the PAC is beating BYU.

What victories against the "big boys" can Utah tout?

A 7-point win against 11-loss Colorado? The Utes haven't beaten a single PAC team with a winning record and your "big boy" bowl opponent, Georgia Tech (#56) was ranked more than TWENTY places LOWER than BYU's mid-major bowl opponent, Tulsa (#35).

A team that wasn't even good enough to beat the lone WAC team on their schedule in order to qualify for a bowl last year, should just keep silent about "3rd-tier" bowls.

U had a LOSING record against the WAC last season.

What "tier" is the couch potato bowl?

Howard S.
Taylorsville, UT

@Rockwell

It's amusing that BYU has to rely on other teams to do what it can't do for itself...

Beat Utah...

Bluto
Sandy, UT

@Howie

You lost us all.....at Hello!

BYU is a National Brand and one of College Football's Legacy Schools.

A program which has actually won College Football's most coveted hardware.
National Championship, Heisman, Outland, Davey O'Brien, Doak Walker, Sammy Baugh Trophies, etc...

College Hall of Famers, Super Bowl and NFL MVP's etc.
You know the drill...

Unlike Wannabee Schools (U), it ain't braggin'...because BYU has done it.

They (BYU) leave arguments of irrelevant minutia, to losing programs.
i.e. Conference versions of the Washington Generals....in other words...U!

BYU plays their games on the biggest name in sports...ESPN.
They also play for their Worldwide fanbase.

Utah is a Commuter School and a Conference Doormat (every conference must have them) which plays for it's fans, which span from the avenues to 33rd south.

Tom Lovat Part Deux.... is upon U!
Go WazzUtes!

Bluto
Sandy, UT

Howie

Let it go.
BYU's Legacy and National Brand is set in stone.
Get used to it.

LonestarRunner
Salt Lake City, UT

howie

It's amusing to watch Utah fans pretend that Utah is one of the "big boys". The truth is, on a national scale, Utah isn't even on the radar - seldom ranked in the Top 25, average Sagarin ranking of #50 since joining the PAC, and banished to the PAC net for most games.

Utah is a commuter school with a local fan base. BYU is legacy program with a national fan base.

Not including BYUtv, BYU was the 8th most viewed football team in the country last year. BYU is 18th in number of fans on Twitter. Coincidence? Nope.

Howard S.
Taylorsville, UT

@Bluto

BYU's last claim to glory was when the parents of a 2014 recruit was about 13 years old...

Live in the past much?

Howard S.
Taylorsville, UT

@LonestarRunner

Legacy program?

Seems odd that a legacy program would be past over by every major conference in the country...

Unless the legacy is that of a 2nd tier team against 2nd and 3rd tier competition...

Yeah that would explain why BYU has a consistent losing record when they play the big boys...

Just the FAX
Olympus Cove, Utah

howie

BYU has no need to live in the past to surpass that flash-in-the-pan program on the hill.

Since 2006, BYU has been ranked in the AP Top 25 FOUR times (2006, 2007, 2008, 2009), including THREE Top 15 finishes.

That's almost as many AP Top 25 finishes (five) as the Utes have had in their entire history.

In the last 7 years, Bronco has had back-to-back-to-back-to-back AP Top 25 finishes. The Utes have NEVER had more than two AP Top 25 finishes in a row.

The ONLY reason Utah fans whine so much about BYU's glory days being is the past, is because the Utes have no glory days except for 2004 and 2008.

Even Utah's twin flash-in-the-pan seasons produced precious little in terms of national accomplishments - no National Championships, no Heisman Trophies, no National Individual Award winners, and no Hall of Fame players. A couple of great, undefeated seasons, a couple of nice bowl wins, and a quick fade back to mediocrity after both seasons.

Marked it Down
Park City, UT

Howard S.

Legacy program? Absolutely.

As Athlon Magazine called BYU, one of the Top 25 College Football Dynasties of the AP era - 1936 to present.

A program that been a perennial Top 25 team since 1977 (18 Top 25 Finishes in 36 years - 50%), with 17 AP Top 25 finishes, including a consensus National Championship and a Heisman Trophy winner, the quintessential team and individual major college football awards.

BYU's all-time winning percentage versus AP Top 25 teams: 21%
Utah's all-time winning percentage versus AP Top 25 teams: 16%

That sorry program on the hill has no room to talk when it comes to not being able to play with the big boys; U can't even play with the little boys - two losses to 10-loss teams since 2007, and losses to every MWC bottom dweller during the Bronco/Kyle era.

Bronco is undefeated versus CSU, Wyoming, New Mexico and UNLV. Kyle lost to all of them.

BYU78
McLean, VA

The World According To Howie: "Oh... do my eyes deceive me... recruiting rankings don't count... now Mr. BYU78 thinks they do count?"

Howie, my friend! Please show where I have ever suggested that recruiting isn't important. I have been one of the biggest critics of the Y's recruiting performance over the last two recruiting classes, and have waxed sarcastic over the idea that "stars don't matter". Now, however, the scheduling lag has disappeared, and the recruits are starting to flow in. So, rightfully, I point out to you the fruits of this success, for which you -- predictably -- have no valid response. Now please cite where I have ever said anything other than the fact that quality recruits, stacked high and deep, are critical to the success of the program???? Thanks, Howie! Any other generalities for us this afternoon? New material instead of old stuff will be appreciated! Cheers, and Go Cougars!

:-)

VegasUte
Las Vegas, NV

Nice pick ups! Congrats

Howard S.
Taylorsville, UT

@Marked it Down

Athlons?

You know very well Mr. Marked it Down that the article you refer to identifies the BYU dynasty ending in 1985...

Nice try though...

Oh, and those national rankings.... all based on success against 2nd and 3rd tier competition.

Which makes sense because everyone knows that when BYU plays top tier competition... they have losing record.

Howard S.
Taylorsville, UT

@BYU78

A few observations Mr. BYU78....

Scheduling lag has disappeared?

Setting the schedule is the easy part... perhaps you should wait to see how your Cougs perform against a schedule that is a step above 2nd/3rd tier before you claim recruiting success based on schedule...

Recruits are flowing in?

No... verbal commits are flowing in... talk to me when the LOIs are signed...

And finally... BYU has had three poor recruiting classes in a row... that many weak recruiting classes is devastating to a program... think of senior, junior, and sophomore class devoid of talent... not a pretty picture.

Three bad recruiting classes takes years to recover from... now half way through the current cycle you start claiming success... Good luck with that.

Oh, and I never said you said stars don't count... I said your Cougar Nation brothers have been saying it for months... until now, of course.

And as for new material... I know the old material hurts... the truth usually does.

talkinsports
Gilbert, AZ

Howard S

The Athlon's article ranked ALL Dynasties from 1936 to current, which included BYU's 1979-1985 Dynasty; TCU and Boise State were mentioned, but unfortunately for U, the Utes have never had anything that could even remotely be considered a dynasty

Utah's entire history has been built on 2nd, 3rd and completely off-the-scale competition; that's why Utah has hardly ever been ranked, they've never been anybody.

All-time records versus Top 25 teams
BYU AP 15 of 70 (21%); Coaches 16 of 82 (20%)
Utah AP 14 of 86 (16%); Coaches 15 of 91 (16%)

Howard S.
Taylorsville, UT

@talkinsports

Right... BYU had a moment of glory that ended in 1985... that's 28 years ago... Yet Cougar Nation lives under the perpetual delusion that it was yesterday.

Riverton Cougar
Riverton, UT

"Athlons?

You know very well Mr. Marked it Down that the article you refer to identifies the BYU dynasty ending in 1985...

Nice try though..."

Ok, how about ESPN's ranking in 2009 of the 25 most prestigious football programs? And that was even in Utah's glory years.

phoenix
Gilbert, AZ

Howard S.

BYU's "moment" of glory included a National Championship, the very pinacle of major college football achievement, and has been on-going since 1977, with 18 Top 25 finishes in last 36 years 50%, including FOUR straight Top 25 finishes and THREE Top 15 finishes in the last 7 years (over 50%).

By comparison, the Utes didn't even crack the AP Top 25 until 1994, have only been ranked FIVE times in the final AP in their entire history, and have NEVER had more than TWO AP Top 25 finishes in a row.

The truth hurts, but here it is. Even at the pinacle of Utah's football success, the Utes never won a single national team or individual award - no National Championship, no Heisman Trophy, no national individual award winners, and no national college football hall of fame players. A couple of nice wins on a stage that will soon be nothing more than a footnote to college football history.

Howard S.
Taylorsville, UT

@phoenix

Not only did BYUs fading moment of glory end 28 years ago... it was based on 2nd and 3rd tier competition.

In fact... all of BYUs success is based on 2nd and 3rd tier competition... because when BYU plays the big boys they have a losing record...

Now that is truth that has got to hurt...

phoenix
Gilbert, AZ

Howard S.

The reason Utah hasn't been ranked more often is because, except for 1964, for first hundred years of Utah's football history, the Utes were 2nd and 3rd tier competition.

From 1965 to 1991, the Utes never won a conference championship, never played in a bowl, and were never ranked. In fact, the Utes didn't crack the AP Top 25 until 1994, SEVENTEEN years after BYU finished in the Final AP poll for the first time. If it hadn't been for the proliferation of bowls beginning in the 90's, the Utes wouldn't have even qualified for more than a handful of bowls.

As far as success versus the "big boys".

BYU's lifetime winning percentage versus ranked teams - 21%.
Utah's lifetime winning percentage versus ranked teams - 16%.

Sorry to burst your crimson bubble, but if think that anybody is impressed with your "big boy" wins over losing teams like 11-loss Colorado, you're seriously delusional.

You talk about beating the big boys, yet you can't even beat the little boys - see 10-loss Colorado and 10-loss UNLV, and every bottom-dwelling team in the MWC and WAC.

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