Does the government of the United States have the right to "compel" us
to buy health insurance? If it does, where is that "right" defined? It
is not on the list of enumerated duties found in Article 1, Section 8, where the
people have listed those duties which they have authorized to Congress.It does not matter whether a newspaper editor or even the whole country
believes that ObamaCare is "good" for America. The Federal Government
has not been authorized to compel us to buy health insurance. That is the only
fact that is pertinent. Everything else is just "smoke and mirrors".
'Let's sabotage something that provides a service to people, and if
you don't allow us to sabotage it, we'll hurt the economy by forcing a
shutdown' is not exactly a winning argument.
Actually, les's crusade hasn't increased any support for his camp.
Those tea party folks who supported Mike Lee before, will probably still support
him today. While many many many more are completely against Lee now. Many
didn't even know who he was. Now they do. Which isn't a good thing.
The only problem I have with his crusade is... if he's just against the ACA
and he has no plan to replace it... his crusade will go nowhere.You
can't just be against something. You have to be FOR something. When the
Republicans have a better plan people can be FOR... they may go somewhere. If
they are just against the ACA but have no alternative plan, even though most
Americans don't want Government Healthcare... they will not get
enthusiastic public support.The worst thing that could happen to
most Americans would be for the ACA to get half implemented and then stall.
That would be the worst of all posible outcomes. It would be better if failed
or succeeded (at least then SOME people would benefit and it would not through
our whole Healthcare System into chaos (which I'm starting to believe some
politicians want).For the anarchists and the Alynski fans the best
thing possible scenario would be for Obama to cripple private insurance
companies and at the same time propose a failed halfbreed system that would fail
and leave the people PLEADING for Government Healthcare.
Senator Lee usually has some good ideas (IMO) but this is not one of them.It makes no sense for Congress to not fund something Congress passed
into law.That's like my family deciding we're going to buy
a new house, but then deciding we're not going to pay for it... we all
suffer.Congress passed it... Congress should fund it. If you
don't want it now that you know what's in it... vote and get rid of it
or fix the parts you don't like. Don't just decide you won't
pay for it and you're willing to accept the consequences. That seems
I'm fully in favor of repealing the ACA......but only if you
replace it with a single-payer system.The status quo in our
healthcare financing system is a massive train wreck. For-profit healthcare
financing systems are the #1 cause of personal bankruptcies in this country, and
the trend is only getting worse.This childish, self-aggrandizing and
ultimately doomed-to-failure stunt by Tea Partiers to hold the economy hostage
if they don't get their way does nothing to improve the healthcare of
Americans. But looking on the bright side, it does make the Tea
Party and the GOP look more and more to most Americans like a petulant and
spoiled 5 year-old in need of a nap, or a spanking, or both, which suits me just
@Mike Richards – “The Federal Government has not been authorized to
compel us to buy health insurance. That is the only fact that is
pertinent.”Worth repeating - Do you see no irony in thinking
Senator Lee’s views (or yours) on the Constitution trump those of the
Congressman Lee wants to shut down government payments if the Obama health care
plan is not modified. If Mr. Lee is willing to stop payments to anyone over this
issue, his congressional pay check should be the first thing stopped. Mr. Lee:
don't threaten the wages paid our military and their families provided
through government spending because you are unable to stop the forced insurance
coverage plan the Obama health care plan contains. Put forward your own
plan to offer health insurance to all Americans at a price we can afford,
regardless of health conditions or age, that benefit the American people not
just the insurance companies that make campaign contributions.
Mike Lee's proposal might be the blessing in disguise the Democrats have
been waiting for. They need more time to put pressure on states to accept the
funding. They need more time to figure out the bureaucratic boondoggle of
Obamacare and this would be the very thing that gives it to them.On
the other hand if this is purely a tactic to get the Democrats to out maneuver
the Dems at the negotiating table then by all means carry on.Unfortunately, The tea party has been coming up short on there ability to
outmaneuver anyone lately.=(
Where were these "shut down the Government" types when we un-funded an
invasion of a non-aggressive sovereign oil rich country?oris it only when Americans need healthcare that we resort to the most extreme
Tyler,The Court ruled that Congress has the right to tax us, but
because ObamaCare was not funded, the Court did not rule on the
Constitutionality of that tax. After ObamaCare is funded, you can be certain
that the Court will revisit ObamaCare.
I'm glad we elected this guy to posture ineffectually. There aren't
enough people in Congress doing that.
Re: "Let's sabotage something that provides a service to people . . .
."Well, first you gotta find something that provides a service
to people. That's certainly not Obamacare.It provides a service
only to Obama and his socializing cronies. They've admitted as much by
opting out, themselves.They know Obamacare will fail. It can't
help but fail. It's too expensive, too expansive, and WAY too destructive
of American freedom and prosperity.But that's exactly what
Obama wants. Like his mentors, Marx, Engels, Cloward, and Piven, he knows the
only way to bring about the "fundamental change" he wants is to first
destroy the working systems in place.Twenty years ago, as Hillary
proved, no one voted for a broken, British-style system of rationed,
government-doled health care. After liberals destroy the best health care
delivery system in the world, though, desperate rubes will buy into anything,
including a system that'll never meet their needs, but will empower the
oligarchs by requiring dependence on government for the very means of
existence.Today, destroy health care. Tomorrow? The world.
re:MikeRichardsU.S. Constitution, Article 1 Sec. 8 Clause 18:"The Congress shall have Power - To make all Laws which shall be necessary
and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other
Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in
any Department or Officer thereof." The clause has been paired
with the Commerce Clause to provide the constitutional basis for a wide variety
of federal laws. These combination of clauses have also been used to
uphold federal laws affecting economic activity, they also were used to justify
federal criminal laws. In addition to these powers to charter and
operate federal banks, the clause was linked to the General Welfare clause and
the constitutional powers of tax collection and the ability to borrow money to
give the federal government virtually complete control over currency.
Mike _ I fixed your comment;=====Mike RichardsSouth Jordan, UtahTyler,The Court ruled that Congress
has the right to tax us, but because the Bush Wars were not funded, the Court
did not rule on the Constitutionality of that tax. After the Bush Wars are
funded, you can be certain that the Court will revisit the Bush Wars.8:06
p.m. Aug. 5, 2013
For me this is a hard one. As a die-hard Republican I see the fracture
resulting in a very possible defeat in 2014 and a very definite defeat in 2016.
On the other hand, a great man once said "stand for something", and as
I see my freedoms being eroded I also see my party standing on the sidelines
doing nothing. I applaud Sen Lee for standing up for something that he, and I,
see as very wrong. I guess we just do our best, trying not to compromise our
integrity, trusting that everything will work out.
I won't vote for delegates who will vote for Lee. He's too far right
for me. He should stand aside and allow Obamacare to fail on its own, which it
will. Otherwise Republicans will lose the House, too, in the next elections as
Lee and others try to shut down the government by refusing to fund Obamacare.
Lee is not a reasonable man who can help Republicans win elections.
Truthseeker:Quit bringing up that pesky "elastic clause."
According to Mike it doesn't really exist.
Obamacare could be the best thing in the World, and Lee would be doing the same
thing he is right now!Many in the Tea Party have adopted one major goal, and
that is the downfall of Obama. They could care less about what actually happens
to our country. Lee is no different than a loud mouthed kid who is throwing a
tantrum in the store because his mom won't buy him candy! I guess, the more
he pouts and cries, the better off our country will be, right? Any child can
have a fit! Shouldn't we expect a little bit more from Lee?
No windmills here in Utah to attack Don Quijote?
procuradorfiscal:If the British system was broken twenty years ago
why is it still alive and well today. In fact based on my personal experience
it is very good. In fact they get more service at lesser cost than we do. I
challenge anyone to prove otherwise. Furthermore no modern country has tried a
system involving "single payer funding" and then changed back. You
comment about a "failed" system. We are there...many of our citizens
have little access to healthcare so what is your solution
Truthseeker,We've visited this concept many times before. The
clause that you misquoted is part of a single sentence that comprises Article 1,
Section 8, and it refers only to that single sentence, just as all dependent
clauses require the context of the sentence in which they are found before they
have basis. The preceding seventeen clauses listed (enumerated) the
duties that we, the people, had delegated to Congress to provide. The
eigtheenth clause gave Congress the authority to tax us for the
"foregoing" powers in those preceding seventeen clauses that we
delegated to Congress. You must never take that clause out of
context to imply something that if false when taken out of context.
Re: "If the British system was broken twenty years ago why is it still alive
and well today[?]"It isn't. It's dead. And it
stinks.It does not, cannot, meet the needs of the British public.
There's just too little care for too many people. But, since there's
no legal or affordable alternative, British patients keep queuing up, in the
hope of winning the health care lottery -- that is, finding the way to beg,
wheedle, and cajole enough health care from the government monopoly to actually
get well.Get used to it. That's where we're headed.
procuradorfiscal:You are making this more fun than I thought. You
say "British patients keep queuing up, in the hope of winning the health
care lottery. Maybe we should find that same que. After all the Brits outlive
us by about 3 to 4 years. Other statistics include the fact the Brits have
lower mortality birth rates. Speaking of queing up I spend more time on the
phone with insurance companines trying to get them to pay bills. The experience
I had with my family in England was the total opposite of what you describe.
So, does the senator have any plan for health care other than opposing anything
with any connection to government? After all, there are 30 or 40 million people
with no plan at all. Wouldn't it be great if we had a clue of what Lee is
FOR - besides keeping his donors happy?
RE Mike RichardsThey compel me to own auto insurance. The compel me
to det a drivers license. Die hard republicans are compelling people (mostly
minorities) to get voter ID cards. The compel us to register for the draft.
Etc...Mike, the government compels us to do lots of things. I guess
the good and bad of it depends upon your personal views. But you can't
have it both ways. You posted earlier on another story the government should
require voter id's to prevent fraud?You confuse me?
Senator Lee is an interesting politician. He's relatively safe in his
approach because of how Utah votes. He knows that saying "no" to
everything is easier than saying "yes" to something. He knows that
having "no" record in Utah is better than having voted "yes" and
having that "yes" vote somehow used against him.Smart guy...
Horrible person to represent the people in the government, but certainly a smart
How ironic. Obama has shown total disregard and expresses his disrespect for the
law he created. The law has passed and yet he changes it without regard for
obeying it. He extends the provision requiring a specific implementation date
of parts of the AHC. He has no authority without congressional passage to change
or refuse to enforce any law.. He has shown total disregard of our legal system
and feels he is the "supreme decision maker" of this great country. He
is repeatedly avoiding the due process required by the constitution which he
obviously deplores. All as predicted for his second term. AHC is just one of
many examples. We all need to seriously consider the future consequences of his
actions and each do our part to prevent further destruction of history's
greatest country and government. Let your voices be heard!
Thousands of Canadians come to this country for medical care which is
unavailable to them due to the socialized medical care of that country. Not
enough doctors. They abandoned seeking that profession years ago due to
socialized process. We had a neighbor there who needed a serious heart procedure
who was told it would be two months before they could get to him. He nearly died
before that took place. Believe that? Ask a Canadian. AHC magnifies that type of
a system. Read the bill. No one else has. The author of the bill calls it a
train wreck about to happen.