Topic of the day: Sen. Lee's crusade against the Affordable Care Act


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  • peacemaker Provo, UT
    Aug. 8, 2013 10:37 a.m.

    Thousands of Canadians come to this country for medical care which is unavailable to them due to the socialized medical care of that country. Not enough doctors. They abandoned seeking that profession years ago due to socialized process. We had a neighbor there who needed a serious heart procedure who was told it would be two months before they could get to him. He nearly died before that took place. Believe that? Ask a Canadian. AHC magnifies that type of a system. Read the bill. No one else has. The author of the bill calls it a train wreck about to happen.

  • peacemaker Provo, UT
    Aug. 8, 2013 10:12 a.m.

    How ironic. Obama has shown total disregard and expresses his disrespect for the law he created. The law has passed and yet he changes it without regard for obeying it. He extends the provision requiring a specific implementation date of parts of the AHC. He has no authority without congressional passage to change or refuse to enforce any law.. He has shown total disregard of our legal system and feels he is the "supreme decision maker" of this great country. He is repeatedly avoiding the due process required by the constitution which he obviously deplores. All as predicted for his second term. AHC is just one of many examples. We all need to seriously consider the future consequences of his actions and each do our part to prevent further destruction of history's greatest country and government. Let your voices be heard!

  • Something to think about Ogden, UT
    Aug. 7, 2013 10:05 a.m.

    Senator Lee is an interesting politician. He's relatively safe in his approach because of how Utah votes. He knows that saying "no" to everything is easier than saying "yes" to something. He knows that having "no" record in Utah is better than having voted "yes" and having that "yes" vote somehow used against him.

    Smart guy... Horrible person to represent the people in the government, but certainly a smart guy!

  • Bored to the point of THIS! Ogden, UT
    Aug. 7, 2013 10:02 a.m.

    RE Mike Richards

    They compel me to own auto insurance. The compel me to det a drivers license. Die hard republicans are compelling people (mostly minorities) to get voter ID cards. The compel us to register for the draft. Etc...

    Mike, the government compels us to do lots of things. I guess the good and bad of it depends upon your personal views. But you can't have it both ways. You posted earlier on another story the government should require voter id's to prevent fraud?

    You confuse me?

  • Mark B Eureka, CA
    Aug. 6, 2013 10:00 p.m.

    So, does the senator have any plan for health care other than opposing anything with any connection to government? After all, there are 30 or 40 million people with no plan at all. Wouldn't it be great if we had a clue of what Lee is FOR - besides keeping his donors happy?

  • louie Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 6, 2013 8:58 p.m.


    You are making this more fun than I thought. You say "British patients keep queuing up, in the hope of winning the health care lottery. Maybe we should find that same que. After all the Brits outlive us by about 3 to 4 years. Other statistics include the fact the Brits have lower mortality birth rates. Speaking of queing up I spend more time on the phone with insurance companines trying to get them to pay bills. The experience I had with my family in England was the total opposite of what you describe.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Aug. 6, 2013 7:25 p.m.

    Re: "If the British system was broken twenty years ago why is it still alive and well today[?]"

    It isn't. It's dead. And it stinks.

    It does not, cannot, meet the needs of the British public. There's just too little care for too many people. But, since there's no legal or affordable alternative, British patients keep queuing up, in the hope of winning the health care lottery -- that is, finding the way to beg, wheedle, and cajole enough health care from the government monopoly to actually get well.

    Get used to it. That's where we're headed.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Aug. 6, 2013 4:16 p.m.


    We've visited this concept many times before. The clause that you misquoted is part of a single sentence that comprises Article 1, Section 8, and it refers only to that single sentence, just as all dependent clauses require the context of the sentence in which they are found before they have basis.

    The preceding seventeen clauses listed (enumerated) the duties that we, the people, had delegated to Congress to provide. The eigtheenth clause gave Congress the authority to tax us for the "foregoing" powers in those preceding seventeen clauses that we delegated to Congress.

    You must never take that clause out of context to imply something that if false when taken out of context.

  • louie Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 6, 2013 2:20 p.m.


    If the British system was broken twenty years ago why is it still alive and well today. In fact based on my personal experience it is very good. In fact they get more service at lesser cost than we do. I challenge anyone to prove otherwise. Furthermore no modern country has tried a system involving "single payer funding" and then changed back. You comment about a "failed" system. We are there...many of our citizens have little access to healthcare so what is your solution

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 6, 2013 10:58 a.m.

    No windmills here in Utah to attack Don Quijote?

  • RFLASH Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 6, 2013 8:58 a.m.

    Obamacare could be the best thing in the World, and Lee would be doing the same thing he is right now!Many in the Tea Party have adopted one major goal, and that is the downfall of Obama. They could care less about what actually happens to our country. Lee is no different than a loud mouthed kid who is throwing a tantrum in the store because his mom won't buy him candy! I guess, the more he pouts and cries, the better off our country will be, right? Any child can have a fit! Shouldn't we expect a little bit more from Lee?

  • Howard Beal Provo, UT
    Aug. 6, 2013 1:09 a.m.


    Quit bringing up that pesky "elastic clause." According to Mike it doesn't really exist.

  • Sal Provo, UT
    Aug. 5, 2013 11:26 p.m.

    I won't vote for delegates who will vote for Lee. He's too far right for me. He should stand aside and allow Obamacare to fail on its own, which it will. Otherwise Republicans will lose the House, too, in the next elections as Lee and others try to shut down the government by refusing to fund Obamacare. Lee is not a reasonable man who can help Republicans win elections.

  • Pat Salt Lake , UT
    Aug. 5, 2013 9:55 p.m.

    For me this is a hard one. As a die-hard Republican I see the fracture resulting in a very possible defeat in 2014 and a very definite defeat in 2016. On the other hand, a great man once said "stand for something", and as I see my freedoms being eroded I also see my party standing on the sidelines doing nothing. I applaud Sen Lee for standing up for something that he, and I, see as very wrong. I guess we just do our best, trying not to compromise our integrity, trusting that everything will work out.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Aug. 5, 2013 9:42 p.m.

    Mike _ I fixed your comment;


    Mike Richards
    South Jordan, Utah


    The Court ruled that Congress has the right to tax us, but because the Bush Wars were not funded, the Court did not rule on the Constitutionality of that tax. After the Bush Wars are funded, you can be certain that the Court will revisit the Bush Wars.
    8:06 p.m. Aug. 5, 2013

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Aug. 5, 2013 8:44 p.m.


    U.S. Constitution, Article 1 Sec. 8 Clause 18:
    "The Congress shall have Power - To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof."

    The clause has been paired with the Commerce Clause to provide the constitutional basis for a wide variety of federal laws.

    These combination of clauses have also been used to uphold federal laws affecting economic activity, they also were used to justify federal criminal laws.

    In addition to these powers to charter and operate federal banks, the clause was linked to the General Welfare clause and the constitutional powers of tax collection and the ability to borrow money to give the federal government virtually complete control over currency.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Aug. 5, 2013 8:43 p.m.

    Re: "Let's sabotage something that provides a service to people . . . ."

    Well, first you gotta find something that provides a service to people. That's certainly not Obamacare.

    It provides a service only to Obama and his socializing cronies. They've admitted as much by opting out, themselves.

    They know Obamacare will fail. It can't help but fail. It's too expensive, too expansive, and WAY too destructive of American freedom and prosperity.

    But that's exactly what Obama wants. Like his mentors, Marx, Engels, Cloward, and Piven, he knows the only way to bring about the "fundamental change" he wants is to first destroy the working systems in place.

    Twenty years ago, as Hillary proved, no one voted for a broken, British-style system of rationed, government-doled health care. After liberals destroy the best health care delivery system in the world, though, desperate rubes will buy into anything, including a system that'll never meet their needs, but will empower the oligarchs by requiring dependence on government for the very means of existence.

    Today, destroy health care. Tomorrow? The world.

  • Eric Samuelsen Provo, UT
    Aug. 5, 2013 8:32 p.m.

    I'm glad we elected this guy to posture ineffectually. There aren't enough people in Congress doing that.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Aug. 5, 2013 8:06 p.m.


    The Court ruled that Congress has the right to tax us, but because ObamaCare was not funded, the Court did not rule on the Constitutionality of that tax. After ObamaCare is funded, you can be certain that the Court will revisit ObamaCare.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Aug. 5, 2013 6:37 p.m.

    Where were these "shut down the Government" types when we un-funded an invasion of a non-aggressive sovereign oil rich country?


    is it only when Americans need healthcare that we resort to the most extreme measures?

  • The Hammer lehi, utah
    Aug. 5, 2013 6:35 p.m.

    Mike Lee's proposal might be the blessing in disguise the Democrats have been waiting for. They need more time to put pressure on states to accept the funding. They need more time to figure out the bureaucratic boondoggle of Obamacare and this would be the very thing that gives it to them.

    On the other hand if this is purely a tactic to get the Democrats to out maneuver the Dems at the negotiating table then by all means carry on.

    Unfortunately, The tea party has been coming up short on there ability to outmaneuver anyone lately.=(

  • Helene WVC, UT
    Aug. 5, 2013 4:50 p.m.

    Congressman Lee wants to shut down government payments if the Obama health care plan is not modified. If Mr. Lee is willing to stop payments to anyone over this issue, his congressional pay check should be the first thing stopped. Mr. Lee: don't threaten the wages paid our military and their families provided through government spending because you are unable to stop the forced insurance coverage plan the Obama health care plan contains.
    Put forward your own plan to offer health insurance to all Americans at a price we can afford, regardless of health conditions or age, that benefit the American people not just the insurance companies that make campaign contributions.

  • Tyler D Meridian, ID
    Aug. 5, 2013 4:22 p.m.

    @Mike Richards – “The Federal Government has not been authorized to compel us to buy health insurance. That is the only fact that is pertinent.”

    Worth repeating - Do you see no irony in thinking Senator Lee’s views (or yours) on the Constitution trump those of the Supreme Court?

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 5, 2013 3:38 p.m.

    I'm fully in favor of repealing the ACA...

    ...but only if you replace it with a single-payer system.

    The status quo in our healthcare financing system is a massive train wreck. For-profit healthcare financing systems are the #1 cause of personal bankruptcies in this country, and the trend is only getting worse.

    This childish, self-aggrandizing and ultimately doomed-to-failure stunt by Tea Partiers to hold the economy hostage if they don't get their way does nothing to improve the healthcare of Americans.

    But looking on the bright side, it does make the Tea Party and the GOP look more and more to most Americans like a petulant and spoiled 5 year-old in need of a nap, or a spanking, or both, which suits me just fine.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 5, 2013 3:29 p.m.

    Senator Lee usually has some good ideas (IMO) but this is not one of them.

    It makes no sense for Congress to not fund something Congress passed into law.

    That's like my family deciding we're going to buy a new house, but then deciding we're not going to pay for it... we all suffer.

    Congress passed it... Congress should fund it. If you don't want it now that you know what's in it... vote and get rid of it or fix the parts you don't like. Don't just decide you won't pay for it and you're willing to accept the consequences. That seems foolish.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 5, 2013 3:16 p.m.

    The only problem I have with his crusade is... if he's just against the ACA and he has no plan to replace it... his crusade will go nowhere.

    You can't just be against something. You have to be FOR something. When the Republicans have a better plan people can be FOR... they may go somewhere. If they are just against the ACA but have no alternative plan, even though most Americans don't want Government Healthcare... they will not get enthusiastic public support.

    The worst thing that could happen to most Americans would be for the ACA to get half implemented and then stall. That would be the worst of all posible outcomes. It would be better if failed or succeeded (at least then SOME people would benefit and it would not through our whole Healthcare System into chaos (which I'm starting to believe some politicians want).

    For the anarchists and the Alynski fans the best thing possible scenario would be for Obama to cripple private insurance companies and at the same time propose a failed halfbreed system that would fail and leave the people PLEADING for Government Healthcare.

  • FreedomFighter41 Provo, UT
    Aug. 5, 2013 2:57 p.m.

    Actually, les's crusade hasn't increased any support for his camp. Those tea party folks who supported Mike Lee before, will probably still support him today. While many many many more are completely against Lee now. Many didn't even know who he was. Now they do. Which isn't a good thing.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 5, 2013 2:49 p.m.

    'Let's sabotage something that provides a service to people, and if you don't allow us to sabotage it, we'll hurt the economy by forcing a shutdown' is not exactly a winning argument.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Aug. 5, 2013 2:48 p.m.

    Does the government of the United States have the right to "compel" us to buy health insurance? If it does, where is that "right" defined? It is not on the list of enumerated duties found in Article 1, Section 8, where the people have listed those duties which they have authorized to Congress.

    It does not matter whether a newspaper editor or even the whole country believes that ObamaCare is "good" for America. The Federal Government has not been authorized to compel us to buy health insurance. That is the only fact that is pertinent. Everything else is just "smoke and mirrors".